Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

*Peak Vader*
*Peak Dooku*
*Canon only*

Inspired by Ant's skepticism of Vader's superiority.

1. Force
2. Sabers
3. All-out

Vader in all three

Vader fanatics are really getting riled up.

Vader but really close IMO.

Not really. I just really started getting into canon Vader, so I'm not adequately equipped to debate Ant on Vader vs Dooku, so I decided to see what everyone else thinks.

I can see discussion value coming out of this, tbh. Dooku can be argued as the superior duelist, while Vader as the better Force wielder.

What has Vader ever done that has so impressed you people ?

Dooku sweeps

Vader takes Force and all-out, and Tyranus likely takes sabers.

Reasons people, reasons.

It's obvious Canon is painting Vader as superior(Sidious also notes this), and his telekinetic showings are quite frankly much better than anything canon Dooku has done.

Add to that his monumental strength, Dooku's (exaggerated) weakness to that in-canon and Dooku's gonna have a hard time outfencing Vader before the latter hurls him off a cliff or something.

Vader takes all

Vader

Pre-Disney, a purely G canon debate, or really a pre-TFU one, would have Dooku on top.

Dooku>TFU Vader *eye emoji. The fight between him and Maul Reborn is consistent with Vaders power around that time since he didn't take down Old Ben easily.

Don't make me destroy you, Merch.

Vader in all, with sabers being the closest. Dooku has a good chance of winning due to Vader's lack of mobility and vulnerabilities which Makashi can exploit. On the other hand, Dooku can't take too many blows from Vader's immense strength.

Disney Vader is superior all around to Dooku

Originally posted by playa1258
Disney Vader is superior all around to Dooku
I think Dooku can replicate getting laid out by Kanan and Ezra

Vader sweeps.

Originally posted by MythLord
Vader takes Force and all-out, and Tyranus likely takes sabers.

Dooku would admit his clear inferiority just as Maul did.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Vader in all three

Depends of the setting. Assuming open area without many objects, Dooku takes all. If it will be open area with many objects, then Vader takes the Force and possibly all-out, if he can spam Dooku with TK.

Area without objects, would force Vader to engage Dooku in lightsaber duel. As we could see in the Rebels, Vader is moderate skillful fencer at best. He couldn't even beat Ahoska, while being on DS nexus. He did better then Maul, as he could somehow overhelm her, but he was unable to beat her. He also couldn't pass rusty's Obi-Wan defense. Canon Vader was also unable to break a Force guard of Ben's and Ahoska's level. He wont do that with Dooku's. So all-out in that scenario will be very similar to sabers only. And Dooku will takes it.
Force fight in a place without objects will let Count Dooku to do a first move. Lightning, I guess. And without a saber to defend, and TK not much superior to Dooku's, Vader will finally fall.

Area with a lot of objects:
Dooku takes a sabers, like before.
All-out and Force would go to Vader this time. He can spam Dooku with his superior TK - he should have small advantage at the beggining, and much bigger at the end, as Dooku will lost his stamina and Force reserves much faster. Vader should be able to tank Dooku's FL for a moment, so even if Dooku will hit him with that, Vader's response should be TK.

Small area? No idea, but that's the only place, where Vader might takes sabers and all-out, while Dooku might takes Force only fight.

Canon seems to establish Vader at the top of the Sith hierarchy bar Sidious.

Yeah, perhaps he is as powerful as statements says him to be. But that doesn't change the fact, that he's a terribly ineffective during combats with other Force users.

Within a Temple on Malachor, being amped by DS nexus, all three Inquisitors could held their own against Ahsoka (unlike in a duel on neutral ground, when she bested them 1 vs 2). Even Maul did a better worok against them then Ahsoka did, and at the end, he was able to stalemate her. Vader - who somehow must be amped too - was unable to easily overhelm her. Perhaps should would be even able to beat him on neutral ground. Yeah, the same girl who couldn't stomp the Inquisitors. And then, Vader confirms his lack of talent, by being unable to beat old Ben in a fair fight.

By canon showings, Dooku takes this. But Vader still can take "more powerful" title. That wont change the outcome at all. People like Anakin, Mace, Dooku (perhaps TCW Maul) - who are superior duelist by solid margin, and inferior Force users by small margin can all take him.

Dooku destroys.

Vader decisively.

He's already struggling with Anakin's strength in Crisis on Naboo and Vader has been confirmed to be far more powerful, so he stands no chance of winning sabers despite his skill.

In the Force his feats are head and shoulders above Dooku's so he should take that comfortably as well.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
I think Dooku can replicate getting laid out by Kanan and Ezra Vader doesn't have any impressive showings in the films or the animated series. It's actually amusing to see people rush to defend this loser.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Vader decisively.

He's already struggling with Anakin's strength in Crisis on Naboo and Vader has been confirmed to be far more powerful, so he stands no chance of winning sabers despite his skill.

In the Force his feats are head and shoulders above Dooku's so he should take that comfortably as well.

Dry those tears.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Dry those tears. Vader didn't even beat Tano let alone decisively. Your fan wank is pretty desperate but it amuses me. Continue to dream about the biggest loser in Star Wars history, Vader.

Lel.

lol

That's one of the very few Quanchi's points, that might be rightful. As I remember, some of you guys, tried to prove, that Ahsoka was superior to Maul in Rebels, due to the fact that there was stalemate between them, and he was amped by DS nexus.
Sadly, Vader was amped as well, and barely able to overhelm her. Let alone defeat her.
Until Ahoska/Ben/OM Maul will be proven to be above Mace or Dooku, Vader should be consider as inferior combatant to Mace, Dooku, Anakin, TCW Maul. Even despite the fact, that Vader is more powerful then any of them.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Lel.

Funny how Vader's showings during duels with other Force users make him nearly featless?

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Dooku would admit his clear inferiority just as Maul did.
Dooku's too much of a cocky **** for that.

He didn't even admit his inferiority to Yoda until he got his shit kicked in.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Canon seems to establish Vader at the top of the Sith hierarchy bar Sidious.
Not George Lucas Canon.

None one the enemies Vader fought have any saving graces, the last bastion of hope was through Maul admitting inferiority, but we've all seen what's happened to that sack of apples. I agree with the assessment that Dooku, Mace & Anakin types all simply better combatants until there is strict evidence otherwise.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Lel. Concession accepted, friend.

Originally posted by McP
Depends of the setting. Assuming open area without many objects, Dooku takes all. If it will be open area with many objects, then Vader takes the Force and possibly all-out, if he can spam Dooku with TK.

Area without objects, would force Vader to engage Dooku in lightsaber duel. As we could see in the Rebels, Vader is moderate skillful fencer at best. He couldn't even beat Ahoska, while being on DS nexus. He did better then Maul, as he could somehow overhelm her, but he was unable to beat her. He also couldn't pass rusty's Obi-Wan defense. Canon Vader was also unable to break a Force guard of Ben's and Ahoska's level. He wont do that with Dooku's. So all-out in that scenario will be very similar to sabers only. And Dooku will takes it.
Force fight in a place without objects will let Count Dooku to do a first move. Lightning, I guess. And without a saber to defend, and TK not much superior to Dooku's, Vader will finally fall.

Area with a lot of objects:
Dooku takes a sabers, like before.
All-out and Force would go to Vader this time. He can spam Dooku with his superior TK - he should have small advantage at the beggining, and much bigger at the end, as Dooku will lost his stamina and Force reserves much faster. Vader should be able to tank Dooku's FL for a moment, so even if Dooku will hit him with that, Vader's response should be TK.

Small area? No idea, but that's the only place, where Vader might takes sabers and all-out, while Dooku might takes Force only fight. Originally posted by McP
Yeah, perhaps he is as powerful as statements says him to be. But that doesn't change the fact, that he's a terribly ineffective during combats with other Force users.

Within a Temple on Malachor, being amped by DS nexus, all three Inquisitors could held their own against Ahsoka (unlike in a duel on neutral ground, when she bested them 1 vs 2). Even Maul did a better worok against them then Ahsoka did, and at the end, he was able to stalemate her. Vader - who somehow must be amped too - was unable to easily overhelm her. Perhaps should would be even able to beat him on neutral ground. Yeah, the same girl who couldn't stomp the Inquisitors. And then, Vader confirms his lack of talent, by being unable to beat old Ben in a fair fight.

By canon showings, Dooku takes this. But Vader still can take "more powerful" title. That wont change the outcome at all. People like Anakin, Mace, Dooku (perhaps TCW Maul) - who are superior duelist by solid margin, and inferior Force users by small margin can all take him.
I agree with this actually. Vader "should" be superior to people like Filoni but his showings contradict it.

Vader needs to prove his shit if he wants to be better than Dooku. Cream-puffing Kanan and Ezra or edging/stalemating Ashoka - on what should be - some massive Dark Side Nexus, simply isn't going to suffice.

Vader in all

Both team up and curbstomp Maul.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Both team up and curbstomp Maul.

Lmao.

Vader would just send an Inquisitor, and Dooku a Dark Acolyte.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Lmao.

Vader would just send an Inquisitor, and Dooku a Dark Acolyte.

You misspelled "Stormtrooper" and "Battledroid".

Lmao.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Dooku's too much of a cocky **** for that.

He didn't even admit his inferiority to Yoda until he got his shit kicked in.


Well he admitted he couldn't take Sidious. And was always training apprentices to get him one step closer to being able to challenge him. Even asked Obi-Wan to help him!

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Vader needs to prove his shit if he wants to be better than Dooku. Cream-puffing Kanan and Ezra or edging/stalemating Ashoka - on what should be - some massive Dark Side Nexus, simply isn't going to suffice.



I want a quote proving there was this "massive" dark side Nexus before you start using it to lowball.

Don't forget the temple had the corpses of many thousands of Jedi as well, and the fallen Temple guard mask Kanan picked up likely had something to do with the temporary amp he received that contend with Maul.

For such a "massive" dark side Nexus it's pretty strange it's a lightsider whose the only one to recieve a visible amp in Saber combat.

Originally posted by Rebel95
Vader in all Based on ?

Dooku couldn't even beat a few dozen pirates, but he's definitely up their with Vader.

Dooku easily sweeps; Force and all out all he has to do is fry Vader suit with lightning and Vader too choppy and awkward to match the fluidity of Tyranus in sabers

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Dooku couldn't even beat a few dozen pirates, but he's definitely up their with Vader.
Filoni himself spoke on this. For once he said something that wasn't retarded.
https://youtu.be/4o1fd-M3aBo?t=17s

In summary, it was more like 30+ pirates surrounding him and Filoni agrees that Dooku could've killed 15 of them. Dooku knew not to engage b/c that was the very tactic he used in AotC against the jedi.

^ Yeah plus he didn't even have his Saber on him.

Compare that to Maul who fought back.. Maul wasn't surrounded (had all the Pirates in front of him), had his Saber, and still got his legs blown off.


That said, Vader would have easily TK crushed all those pirates. He's just on another level Force wise.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
^ Yeah plus he didn't even have his Saber on him.

Compare that to Maul who fought back.. Maul wasn't surrounded (had all the Pirates in front of him), had his Saber, and still got his legs blown off.


That said, Vader would have easily TK crushed all those pirates. He's just on another level Force wise.
No, Vader just would be able to stay alive after taking a few shots, mostly due to his armor. In that specyfic circumstance, Vader's armor gives him an advantage.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Don't forget the temple had the corpses of many thousands of Jedi as well, and the fallen Temple guard mask Kanan picked up likely had something to do with the temporary amp he received that contend with Maul.

For such a "massive" dark side Nexus it's pretty strange it's a lightsider whose the only one to recieve a visible amp in Saber combat.
Well, after I saw this episode, for me it was clear, that the darksiders had much greater amp. On neutral ground, Ahsoka nearly stomped 7Sis and 5Bro combined. But there, on Malachor, all Inquisitors were albe to hold their own against her. And not for a while, not in one duel.

Originally posted by McP
No, Vader just would be able to stay alive after taking a few shots, mostly due to his armor. In that specyfic circumstance, Vader's armor gives him an advantage.



Vader's TK is also well above Dooku's, unless you think you see Canon Dooku's crushing an At-At anytime soon.


Originally posted by McP



Well, after I saw this episode, for me it was clear, that the darksiders had much greater amp. On neutral ground, Ahsoka nearly stomped 7Sis and 5Bro combined. But there, on Malachor, all Inquisitors were albe to hold their own against her. And not for a while, not in one duel.


Nah that's just general inconsistencies in SW fights. After Darth Maul showed up stomping the Inqs, yet he couldn't overpower Ashoka.

The main advantage the Inqs had there was escaping using the helicopter thing, which they can only do there.


And I'll ask again... Who was amped more when Blind Kanan faced Maul? Obviously Kanan. Hence there was definitely amps available for Lightsiders there as well.

^
Vader might be "more powerful" but he's just a sloppy fighter. Also, Dooku's feat with obelisks, his precision is also pretty impressive.

Perhaps Kanan was... but at that point, it could be a ... mask? IDK, he wasn't amped before. On the other hand, Maul did a terrible mistakes in the past. That one could be just another. More then that, Kanan has his moments... He did better and better against The Grand Inquisitor, but even at their duel near the Tower, he was somehow inferior. Then he was captured, interrogated and when Ezra saved him, he obviously was out of his stregnths. And yet, he was able to reach smth like "pure clarity" and did a great job and dominated Grand Inq. Smth similar happend to him against Maul.

Originally posted by McP
No, Vader just would be able to stay alive after taking a few shots, mostly due to his armor. In that specyfic circumstance, Vader's armor gives him an advantage.


Nah he'd wreck all them pirates, considering he destroyed a Rebel battalion with tanks in the Canon comics.

Perhaps. Comic are not always comperable to other materials. Even books. For example, in Legends, Fisto was always considered as inferior to Ventress, due to their duel in CD. But that book had completly shitty power levels. Ventress was never leagues above Obi-Wan, like in that book.

It's fair to compere guys mostly in the same sources, and added others if there is a need for that. Rebels's directors are cosndiereing Vader as a true powerhouse, and hyping him a lot. But in terms of showings, he got Force pushed by Kanan and Ezra, was unable to comfortably overhelm Ahsoka (he did that, but not in the way he should). Dooku did much better work in TCW, he had some bad showing though.
And there are movies, where Dooku was comfortably beating a guy in his prime, while Vader couldn't beat him when he past his prime.

What does getting Force Pushed(while distracted mind you) and dueling have to do with taking out guys with blasters who can't use The Force? He did so against a Rebel force with tanks, no reason why he can't do it against some 30+ pirates.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
He did so against a Rebel force with tanks, no reason why he can't do it against some 30+ pirates.


To be fair that was on a Nexus

Originally posted by McP
^
Vader might be "more powerful" but he's just a sloppy fighter. Also, Dooku's feat with obelisks, his precision is also pretty impressive.

Perhaps Kanan was... but at that point, it could be a ... mask? IDK, he wasn't amped before. On the other hand, Maul did a terrible mistakes in the past. That one could be just another. More then that, Kanan has his moments... He did better and better against The Grand Inquisitor, but even at their duel near the Tower, he was somehow inferior. Then he was captured, interrogated and when Ezra saved him, he obviously was out of his stregnths. And yet, he was able to reach smth like "pure clarity" and did a great job and dominated Grand Inq. Smth similar happend to him against Maul.


I don't see how Vader is a sloppy fighter.

I didn't see Maul make a mistake against Kanan. It's possible he underestimated him, but there was no visible mistake. Kanan obviously just had some huge Light side Force amp. So big that Ashoka could see it as well which is why she left him alone to face Maul blind.

So I'm not buying this "Massive" Dark Side Nexus boosting Maul and Vader's Saber abilities more so than everyone else.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
^ Yeah plus he didn't even have his Saber on him.

Compare that to Maul who fought back.. Maul wasn't surrounded (had all the Pirates in front of him), had his Saber, and still got his legs blown off.


That said, Vader would have easily TK crushed all those pirates. He's just on another level Force wise. Maul escaped while he had a disadvantage in having to protect his injured brother as well. Kenobi was also there converging on them. You always ignore the context.

Speculation and completely made up feat. It didn't occur so quit acting like your opinion is worth a damn. It isn't and never has been.

For future reference, has the effects of DS/LS nexi been explored in canon? If not, why are we applying "Legends" Force laws to canon?

Ah, I see. Thanks Beni.

That's Moraband, the planet they were on was Vrogas Vas, which had the remains of a Jedi Temple, not a Sith one.

Also Dathomir is a confirmed DS Nexus, and Morris a Gigantic LS and DS Force Nexus.

Where is it stated that malachor amplifies the powers of dark side users?

Is there anything about Malachor in Canon?

Originally posted by Rebel95
Where is it stated that malachor amplifies the powers of dark side users?

It isn't.

But someone on the Rebels team suggested the Inquisitors could only do that helicopter thing on Malachor. But even he said to refer to Filoni.

Exactly, so there's no proof that Vader and maul were amped on malachor

Originally posted by Rebel95
Exactly, so there's no proof that Vader and maul were amped on malachor


Nope. Whereas Kanan clearly was amped when he bested Maul.

Lol.