Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Who is the most powerful character Nihilus can gigadrain before the other character can meaningfully respond?

Not sure, Kreia?

Gethzerion.

Muur?

Anyone who can't combat it.

Dude was training planets by talking.

Fodder Jedi #87.

Nah. Muur launches some of the most powerful Force users in the legacy era and in a Celeste possessed form not even his living one.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Nah. Muur launches some of the most powerful Force users in the legacy era and in a Celeste possessed form not even his living one.
The talisman boosted him likely, tho.

Originally posted by ares834
Fodder Jedi #87.

Originally posted by McP
Not sure, Kreia?

This is basically the same as the other thread. As before, Nihilus can seemingly drain anyone without the Exile's repellent nature to him. The evidence against this is essentially a lot of hopes and wishes and nothing more.

Originally posted by Nephthys
This is basically the same as the other thread. As before, Nihilus can seemingly drain anyone without the Exile's repellent nature to him. The evidence against this is essentially a lot of hopes and wishes and nothing more.

Is there any reason to believe this, other than that Traya said so?

I mean, we never see anyone resist Luke's electric judgment, so I guess this means he can insta-kill anyone with it?

It wiped out everyone it faced except Meetra. And Kreia is the one most knowledgeable about it. If she knows of no defense, then it stands that nobody else does unless theres proof otherwise.

Nobody displayed a defense against it. Obviously we shouldn't assume every technique is unblockable until proven elsewise. But when an attack is stated to be unblockable by the foremost expert on it and it hasn't ever been blocked then the burden is on people to prove it isn't, not on me.

He can potentially drain anyone. Maybe Exar Kun, Vitiate or some of the ancient Sith reputed to be masters of the Drain technique(Tulak Hord?) might be able to counter it.

Oh, and Sidious would be drained.

Originally posted by Unbowed
He can potentially drain anyone.

Oh, and Sidious would be drained.
LMAO

Originally posted by Ursumeles
LMAO He's right though.

He demonstrated no actual limits.

On a planet FILLED with Jedi, he drained the entire planet in seconds.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
He's right though.

He demonstrated no actual limits.

On a planet FILLED with Jedi, he drained the entire planet in seconds.
No he isn't.

Sidious force storns and Luke's Electrix judgment have also no actual limit, then?

IIRC, he bombed the Planet first and feed of the death on it.
Also, that doesn't mean that he could do that to Luke, Sidious and co.
In term of force defense quality>>quantity.

And where was that "quality" when Yoda Force pushed him across his office?

Yet despite the fact that he couldn't defend himself from a simple Force push, he somehow can defend himself from a power that is, to put it bluntly, apocalyptic.

Originally posted by Unbowed
And where was that "quality" when Yoda Force pushed him across his office?

Yet despite the fact that he couldn't defend himself from a simple Force push, he somehow can defend himself from a power that is, to put it bluntly, apocalyptic.
Hm... Yoda>>>Nihilius...maybe is that the reason?
Also, that 1000 weak Jedi can't defend themself against it, doesn't mean one good can't do it.

Also, please provide evidence that Nihilius can drain anyone.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
IIRC, he bombed the Planet first and feed of the death on it.

You do not recall correctly.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You do not recall correctly.
Quote? I'll search one too.

"It is a technique that is almost as old as the Sith themselves... it is a means of severing connections between life, the Force, and feeding upon the death it causes. It cannot be taught... it can only be gained through instinct, through experiencing its effects, first-hand."

"He's right. It's... all the deaths you've caused to get here. You feed on it, and you grow stronger. You're like Malachor... it's in you, it's what you are now."


Source: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

Credit to Nova

It takes a certain kind of poster to rely on a quote as evidence for his position when that quote actually contradicts it.

Yes, Nihilus feeds on death.... right after he causes it. He completely severs any living thing from the Force, which causes death, then feeds on it and grows stronger.

And to answer your question, when the Exile asks Visas about Katarr she mentions that "it was not something done with machines or weapons".

But at this point I'm convinced you haven't actually played the game, because the whole premise of Nihilus' character is that he's a not a normal Force user, he's a black whole in the Force, a Cthullu-esque abomination that will eventually extinguish all life in the Galaxy.

You want proof that Nihilus can drain anyone? The whole game is the proof. That's what the whole game is about. All life is touched by the Force, and Nihilus and the Exile are literal wounds that feed on it.

If you're a Force user, nay, if you're a living thing, Nihilus can drain you. It's that simple.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8qXlUpJBR4

At 4:45.

1. It helps me tho, lol. Also, he does feed on the death-the death isn't caused by his drain, but by his severing of the force.
Nihilius can't just sever an stronger force user than himself, lol.
2. LMAO. What proves that? Valkorion draining Ziost, Sidious force storms, Luke pinning Caedus against his chair, etc. also weren't done with machines or weapons.
3. Yeah, I've not played it, but I saw an Lets Play
Also, that Nihilius would eventually destroy the galaxy isn't that impressive-about Valkorion and Sidious was stated the same.
4. In the game is also an proof against it-Traya.
Bonus: I doubt that Nihilius could train an Yuuzhan Vong, tbh. Interesting question, tho.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
"it is a means of severing connections between life, the Force, and feeding upon the death it causes.

The technique causes the death. Not some fabricated bombing. Some twit, I don't recall who, tried that theory because of a quote saying he fed on planets he "blasted into ruin", despite the fact that we freaking see the attack in Unseen, Unheard and the attack itself kills everyone and wrecks the planets buildings etc.

Yoda or Valkorion, tbh.

Actually, he might be able to drain Luke as well (and even Sidious, provided he's not actually a Force wound), but not before he speedblitzes him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The technique causes the death. Not some fabricated bombing. Some twit, I don't recall who, tried that theory because of a quote saying he fed on planets he "blasted into ruin", despite the fact that we freaking see the attack in Unseen, Unheard and the attack itself kills everyone and wrecks the planets buildings etc.
Yeah, I saw that too. But it feeds on the death, that is more important.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
1. It helps me tho, lol. Also, he does feed on the death-the death isn't caused by his drain, but by his severing of the force.
Nihilius can't just sever an stronger force user than himself, lol.
2. LMAO. What proves that? Valkorion draining Ziost, Sidious force storms, Luke pinning Caedus against his chair, etc. also weren't done with machines or weapons.
3. Yeah, I've not played it, but I saw an Lets Play
Also, that Nihilius would eventually destroy the galaxy isn't that impressive-about Valkorion and Sidious was stated the same.
4. In the game is also an proof against it-Traya.
Bonus: I doubt that Nihilius could train an Yuuzhan Vong, tbh. Interesting question, tho.
Serves me right for ignoring my instincts.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Yeah, I saw that too. But it feeds on the death, that is more important.

That isn't all it does, nor the extent to which is can be applied. But regardless, you concede that Nihilus didn't bomb the planets?

You can youtube Unseen, Unheard if you want. It shows Katarrs destruction.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That isn't all it does, nor the extent to which is can be applied. But regardless, you concede that Nihilus didn't bomb the planets?

You can youtube Unseen, Unheard if you want. It shows Katarrs destruction.
I don't saw an quote, that It don't feed on the death.
Yes, I do.

Any Force-user who cannot resist it and/or cheat death. Raw power is irrelevant here.

So, to cause death, it's user must be able to sever connection between life and The Force.. And to do that, you have to be superior Force users, or catch your enemy off-guard. Most people killed by Nihilus tat way were in fact taken off-guard od weaker then him (Perhaps Kreia would be able to resist, so Nihilus took Sion with him, to Force her to split her attention between them both).

Originally posted by McP
And to do that, you have to be superior Force users, or catch your enemy off-guard.

Nah.

Yes.

Proof?

The fact that Kreia said there's no defense doesn't mean you can suddenly apply a no-limits fallacy to it.

More importantly, Kreia also says that the technique, at its highest pinnacle of power, can consume anything that lives. She then goes on to say that Nihilus is rapidly reaching the height of its power, so he obviously can't "consume anything that lives" yet.

Why should we think that Nihilus's drain is fundamentally different from that of, say, Krayt, who drained Luke and Abeloth for ages and didn't seem to insta-kill them?

Originally posted by SunRazer
The fact that Kreia said there's no defense doesn't mean you can suddenly apply a no-limits fallacy to it.

More importantly, Kreia also says that the technique, at its highest pinnacle of power, can consume anything that lives. She then goes on to say that Nihilus is rapidly reaching the height of its power, so he obviously can't "consume anything that lives" yet.

It isn't a no-limits fallacy. You don't see me arguing he'd beat the Ones. Just because there isn't a defense doesn't make it a fallacy. No more than it is one that, I dunno, Superman can't punch ghosts. They simply bypass his abilities. It's hardly impossible for the technique to merely operate in such a way that all known defenses fail to cover.

She says that in the context of retconned idea's about the True Sith's abilities which were never implemented, not about him supposedly being unable to consume anyone. Not sure who you even think she'd be referring to though.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Why should we think that Nihilus's drain is fundamentally different from that of, say, Krayt, who drained Luke and Abeloth for ages and didn't seem to insta-kill them?

Because it is. Its a totally different technique. Standard drain doesn't do the unique things Nihilus' technique does like scale you up to people, permanents increase your power, create absences in the force or make you addicted to using it etc etc.

Luke reasons in the RotJ: novelization that all attacks generated by the Force can be repelled by it too, before briefly doing tutanimus on Sidious's Lightning.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It isn't a no-limits fallacy. You don't see me arguing he'd beat the Ones. Just because there isn't a defense doesn't make it a fallacy. No more than it is one that, I dunno, Superman can't punch ghosts. They simply bypass his abilities. It's hardly impossible for the technique to merely operate in such a way that all known defenses fail to cover.

I don't know what you're talking about.



I know the context of what she's saying. My point still stands. The Ancient Sith being able to do this or not is irrelevant - Nihilus has not yet reached the point where he can consume anything that lives. That's the point of it all. These Ancient Sith - their powers retconned or not - were supposed to represent the pinnacle of Drain (where one could consume anything that lives), which Nihilus was rapidly approaching but had not yet reached.

Literally every other Force move ever can be resisted with enough raw power. Even premonitions can be jammed (Luke jamming Caedus's).

@Neph: do you agree that Luke could oneshot Valkorion via a fold space of his lightsaber into his heart?

Yawn.

Why doesn't Corran Horn oneshot Vitiate by making him see spiders and then stabbing him as he screams?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
@Neph: do you agree that Luke could oneshot Valkorion via a fold space of his lightsaber into his heart?

@Neph - You don't need to tell me what the quote is. I know what I'm talking about. I'm also referring to another part in the scene where she says this:



Whereas:



In other words, Nihilus is not yet at the highest pinnacle of power, which means that he can't consume anything that lives. So Kreia actually debunks the no-limits fallacy.

Which ties into the fact that the Assassins are using the same technique, yet do not instakill anything. And that's because the technique in of itself is not an instakill. It's only an instakill when you're using it against far less powerful beings. There's nothing inherently "instakilly" about the Force Drain technique.

And by definition, it shouldn't be an instakill because the actual feeding is on death, not life, a notion repeatedly stated by KotOR II. The killing is derived from severing someone to the Force by draining their Force connection, which nobody (bar the Exile) has shown the willpower to survive (her connection wasn't drained, but it was completely severed nevertheless). So if anything, surviving this power might have something to do with willpower as well.



I know how Nihilus' technique works - I made an entire blog on it. And yes, there's no "defense" in that there's no counter-technique, but like Sever Force, if you're stronger than them, they can't use it on you.

Originally posted by Nephthys


Because it is. Its a totally different technique. Standard drain doesn't do the unique things Nihilus' technique does like scale you up to people, permanents increase your power, create absences in the force or make you addicted to using it etc etc.

Wasn't it said that he mastered Drain to a level beyond the standard, which is what he uses? Pretty sure something like that was said.

If "standard" means the level used by the Sith Assassins, then yes. But there's no actual "standard" for the power.

And no, Drain Life =/= Force Drain.

Fair enough.

Originally posted by Unbowed
Serves me right for ignoring my instincts.
Concession accepted.

Yoda, Kun, that general tier.

Originally posted by Tondemonai
Yoda, Kun, that general tier.
>Saying that Nihilius could gigadrain Yoda
or
>Saying that Kun and Yoda are in the same tier
Not sure what is more "LMAO" worthy, tbh.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
>Saying that Nihilius could gigadrain Yoda
or
>Saying that Kun and Yoda are in the same tier
Not sure what is more "LMAO" worthy, tbh.

That's an odd way to agree

Originally posted by Tondemonai
That's an odd way to agree
I don't agree. Yoda beats either one with medium difficulty.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
I don't agree. Yoda beats either one with medium difficulty.

Top kek

Originally posted by Tondemonai
Top kek
To your comment, yeah.