Senya vs Darth Traya.

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Balta Skywalker
Senya is on Coruscant, looking for Some Stuff. Suddenly, she feels Traya's presence behind her, and they both start facing each other.

Force: They first start testing her opponent's skill and connection with the Force, using the Force and the Force only to overcome their enemy.

Sabers: They then test the other's skill with their sabers.

All Out: The Verdict. They end up the fight with everything they got.

Ursumeles
Traya in all rounds, bar maybe Sabers.

DarthDuelist9
Senya takes sabers while Traya takes Force, all-out can go either way.

Ursumeles
Traya ragdolls her, lol.

DarthDuelist9
Vaylin, someone who boasts more raw power then Traya can ever dream off, couldn't do it, Traya isn't going to.

Ursumeles
Leia has more raw power than Dooku could dream off, and she couldn't ragdoll Alema and Tahiri. Does that mean that Dooku couldn't?

DarthDuelist9
Originally posted by Ursumeles
Leia has more raw power than Dooku could dream off, and she couldn't ragdoll Alema and Tahiri. Does that mean that Dooku couldn't?

Which evidence do you have that Leia would ragdoll? She's a Jedi after all and most likely has restraint to her abusing her powers.

Ursumeles
Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Which evidence do you have that Leia would ragdoll? She's a Jedi after all and most likely has restraint to her abusing her powers.
Caedus didn't ragdolled Valin, if you want another example.
Also, did Vaylin tried to ragdoll, either?
And, in real power, Traya > Vaylin, anyway.

DarthDuelist9
Originally posted by Ursumeles
Caedus didn't ragdolled Valin, if you want another example.
Also, did Vaylin tried to ragdoll, either?
And, in real power, Traya > Vaylin, anyway.

Vaylin was bloodlusted and actually used the Force on the objects around them, she got enough time and opportunity to strike against Senya but apparently didn't so it's quite logical to assume that she couldn't defeat her directly through the Force.

Traya isn't more powerful then Vaylin, the latter has better feats and hype.

Ursumeles
Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Vaylin was bloodlusted and actually used the Force on the objects around them, she got enough time and opportunity to strike against Senya but apparently didn't so it's quite logical to assume that she couldn't defeat her directly through the Force.

Traya isn't more powerful then Vaylin, the latter has better feats and hype.
K' then. Traya wouldn't ragdoll, but she would win all-out 10/10.

Nah. Hype, sure, but feats? Traya's combat feats are superior, imho.

DarthDuelist9
Originally posted by Ursumeles
K' then. Traya wouldn't ragdoll, but she would win all-out 10/10.

Nah. Hype, sure, but feats? Traya's combat feats are superior, imho.

How is she going to win all-out?

Which are superior?

Ursumeles
Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
How is she going to win all-out?

Which are superior?
By being an equal/slightly inferiotr duelist and easily superior in the force.

Oneshotting 20 elite Sith, oneshotting the masters, ragdolling Sion.

DarthDuelist9
Originally posted by Ursumeles
By being an equal/slightly inferiotr duelist and easily superior in the force.

Oneshotting 20 elite Sith, oneshotting the masters, ragdolling Sion.

A recovering Outlander/Hero of Tython, already the most powerful and skilled Jedi of his time, and Lana Beniko had no chance of matching Vaylin in combat, so I doubt that Traya's actually comparable to her, let alone Senya who defeated Vaylin while holding back.

What have those "Elite Sith", "Jedi Masters" or Sion done what makes them impressive, besides their title?

Nephthys
The Outlander was staggering around and had potentially just been massively electrocuted. Not exactly a valid comparison.

Vaylin might be comparable to Traya in power though. Considering she ragdolled like half as many Zakuul Knights as Traya killed when she was like 10.

DarthDuelist9
Originally posted by Nephthys
The Outlander was staggering around and had potentially just been massively electrocuted. Not exactly a valid comparison.

Vaylin might be comparable to Traya in power though. Considering she ragdolled like half as many Zakuul Knights as Traya killed when she was like 10.

Staggering around? He collapsed once and how was he electrocuted?

DarthDuelist9
Yes of course the Outlander was hindered by his injury but this is solidly compensated for by him having Lana as support and the extent Vaylin was superior to the duo.

Nephthys
Hardly. A full strength Outlander is better than Vaylin or Senya.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Staggering around? He collapsed once and how was he electrocuted?

He was obviously still highly weakened by the carbonite. I believe Lana even says that you being able to so much as stand is a miracle. We all saw how badly Han was affected.

You get badly electrocuted if you decide to save the city from the generator exploding.

DarthDuelist9
Originally posted by Nephthys
Hardly. A full strength Outlander is better than Vaylin or Senya.



He was obviously still highly weakened by the carbonite. I believe Lana even says that you being able to so much as stand is a miracle. We all saw how badly Han was affected.

You get badly electrocuted if you decide to save the city from the generator exploding.

Evidence? I mean, you're just claiming something without actual feats/facts backing you up.

Yeah but the Outlander is >>> Han of course and he got the antidote, which would work better and better over time.

Not necessarely, evidence again?

UCanShootMyNova
Senya in all but Force.

SunRazer
Remind me what Senya's saber feats are, again.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
What have those "Elite Sith", "Jedi Masters" or Sion done what makes them impressive, besides their title?

Not too much for the elite Sith other than the fact that they're the strongest of their time. Weaker ones have killed with Choke and Lightning instantly, for what it's worth.

The Jedi Masters can individually do this: http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/5374267-twoenclaves.jpg

They also know Force techniques that are "the pinnacle of Force Mastery", with Vrook putting Dantooine!Exile in Stasis, TK'ing DS Exile's party into a wall hard enough to stun them for a few seconds, Kavar Stunning a squadron of soldiers for about twenty seconds without even gesturing and Pushing/Stunning the Exile briefly, and Zez-Kai Ell's Pushed Wookiees hard enough to inflict mortal injuries on them. We also know that Draining someone to zilch requires a huge disparity, since not even Nihilus could fully Drain Traya. So that's a huge disparity between Traya and their combined strength.

Sion has "amazingly dark and devastating powers" and is "an ultra-powerful monster of the dark side". I don't consider his M4-78 showings legit, so I won't bring them up. He does hold himself together with telekinesis and was powerful enough to draw Traya's eye, presumably from across the galaxy.

DarthDuelist9
Originally posted by SunRazer
Remind me what Senya's saber feats are, again.

She was named the deadliest of all the Zakuul Knights, the equivalent of Jedi and Sith, while these same Knights were implied by Satele Shan to be superior to the average Jedi or Sith because of their approach which went beyond light and dark. She also defeated Vaylin in combat when "not wanting to hurt her" while a recovering Outlander and Lana Beniko would have stood no chance against her (Vaylin) in chapter 2/3.



From all that only Vrook putting Dantooine Exile in stasis seems actually impressive to be honest and even then I'm not sure how powerful that version of the Exile is. The rebuilding of the Jedi Enclave on Dantooine seems pretty ambigious (don't know if it's the right word for it) since that could have happened in any number of ways. I find Vaylin's Force Power to be at least equally impressive and apparently she couldn't win through that against Senya, so I doubt Traya could. Then again, let me ask, how do you think that Traya would win against Senya?

MythLord
Senya takes sabers, Traya sweeps the rest.

SunRazer
Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
She was named the deadliest of all the Zakuul Knights, the equivalent of Jedi and Sith, while these same Knights were implied by Satele Shan to be superior to the average Jedi or Sith because of their approach which went beyond light and dark. She also defeated Vaylin in combat when "not wanting to hurt her" while a recovering Outlander and Lana Beniko would have stood no chance against her (Vaylin) in chapter 2/3.

I don't think that's beyond Traya. I mean, Sion alone, vastly pre-prime, was making a career out of cutting down experts in lightsaber and Force combat, so that automatically puts him (in his prime) well beyond the reach of most Zakuul Knights. Atton beat him under a slew of negative circumstances, then basically got stomped by Traya despite attempting to ambush her. That should easily surpass being the best of the Zakuul Knights when Sion alone is well above the vast majority of them.

Vaylin doesn't appear to have anything to her credit as a swordsman, but correct me if I'm wrong.



It's hard to say exactly how powerful the Exile is at this point, since there's few concrete showings and most of those take place before on other worlds, where we know the Exile is constantly growing stronger. We do know that much earlier in the game, the Exile was already stronger than Visas Marr, who was second only to Nihilus among Nihilus' minions in power, which includes a Sith Lord who could kill soldiers instantly with Lightning. As for feats, the Exile's read the minds of all her party members, which attracted praise from Kreia since it was apparently something masters could attempt to learn for years without success. The Exile's Battle Meditation also caused the Royalists to one-shot the Separatists on Onderon, even though they were evenly matched beforehand. And again, this stuff is all well before Dantooine.

Regarding how you don't think the other two Masters are impressive, I don't think many people can operate Stunning powers without even gesturing, never mind on an entire squad. Nor can they open doors without even gesturing, when said doors couldn't be opened by Wookiees - who can tear apart TIE fighters.

And Vaylin being equal to Traya or the collective power of the Masters? Because if it's the latter, then Traya's utterly dominated them.

How would Traya beat Senya in Force-only? If not through raw power output, then by outlasting her, I imagine. She has some insane durability and healing feats.

MythLord
Nova, the only Wookie that has torn apart TIE fighters is Chewbacca, and this dude fodderizes other Wookies while poisoned.

Not a fair comparison.

SunRazer
In strength or overall combat?

I was under the impression that most fully-grown Wookiee males would be at least loosely comparable in strength.

MythLord
I mean, Wookies fight with strength primarily and Chewbacca murked some of them fairly easily.

I also recall in-canon he defeats an elite Bounty Hunter Wookie while poisoned, so there's that. mmm.

Still, if you wanna argue any Wookie can damage TIE fighters, that works for since, y'know, this:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/5065349-tk+pushes+reek.png

SunRazer
Sure, but did he murk them in a strength contest or just hitting them in the face before they could defend themselves?

That's a Zez-Kai Ell-tier showing, lol.

DarthDuelist9
I'll respond as soon as possible Nova.

MythLord
Originally posted by SunRazer
Sure, but did he murk them in a strength contest or just hitting them in the face before they could defend themselves?

That's a Zez-Kai Ell-tier showing, lol.

I mean, they weren't arm wrestling, they just traded blows. Although, I should probably re-check, tbh.

You wank Pez-Kai Elk enough that ragdolling him places Traya above Dooku, so I'm taking it.

SunRazer
Draining him plus two others puts Traya above Dooku, yeah. Ragdolling him alone isn't a Dooku+ showing.

MythLord
Draining and TK aren't really proportional, tbh.

Jmanghan
...This is tough.

But Traya, Ig.

Senya hasn't impressed me yet.

Balta Skywalker
Originally posted by Jmanghan
...This is tough.

But Traya, Ig.

Senya hasn't impressed me yet.

Kurk's gonna hate you.

DarthDuelist9
Originally posted by SunRazer
I don't think that's beyond Traya. I mean, Sion alone, vastly pre-prime, was making a career out of cutting down experts in lightsaber and Force combat, so that automatically puts him (in his prime) well beyond the reach of most Zakuul Knights. Atton beat him under a slew of negative circumstances, then basically got stomped by Traya despite attempting to ambush her. That should easily surpass being the best of the Zakuul Knights when Sion alone is well above the vast majority of them.

Fair enough, for now.



In chapter 3 it's stated multiple times that Lana Beniko and a recovering Outlander would stand no chance against Vaylin, it's not stated that it would be in a direct lightsaber fight but when we see the confrontation near the end of the chapter, all characters ignite their lightsabers, implying that it would've mainly been a lightsaber fight. Of course the Outlander was hindered by his carbonite poisoning, however the fact that he had Lana as backup and the extent which Vaylin was superior to the duo should largely compensate for that.



Hmm that's all impressive but how could we compare it to other characters? Things like Battle meditation are difficult to use in a 1 vs 1 thread.



So he can use stun on beings that can't defend themselves against that power? I don't know, not overly impressive to be honest.



Traya, even as a child Vaylin was killing 10 Zakuul Knights without gesturing.



Does Traya have more raw power? I mean, Senya's Gravestone feat alone would indicate that she's not lacking in that area while Traya's healing/durability would only prolong the fight.

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