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Rules
*In character, but serious
*Each team is 20m away from each other
*Battle takes place on a wide plain, with many rocks

TOR Team
*Valkorion as of KoftFE
*Revan as of SoR
*Arcann as of KoftFE

PT/OT Team
*Darth Sidious as of RotS
*Yoda as of RotS
*Darth Plagueis as of TPM

NJO Team
*Luke Skywalker as of TUF
*Shimrra Jamaane as of TUF
*UnuThul as of DN

Round two: Sidious as of RotJ, Outlander is added to Team 1.

Team 2 wins. Adding in Plagueis and Yoda, who are in Valkorion's league as opposed to Revan and Arcann, who definitely aren't.

UnuThul and Shimrra work well together but I doubt they can beat the PT/OT Team, even if they have the strongest player on their side.

Yeah, TOR is just for fun here ^^
Would it make a difference, if I make Sidious RotS?

Not really.

TOR is outclassed; Team 2 wins.

So, atm, the general consensus is PT/OT >NJO >>> TOR?

Originally posted by MythLord
TOR is outclassed; Team 2 wins.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
So, atm, the general consensus is PT/OT >NJO >>> TOR?

That's the natural order of things.

Lol

Team TOR

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Team TOR
Yeah...how?

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Yeah...how?
Any idea about stopping Valkorion?

Revan and Arcann can contend with any opponent in other Teams as well.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Any idea about stopping Valkorion?

Revan and Arcann can contend with any opponent in other Teams as well.
Luke, Palpatine or Yoda solos him; Plagueis and UnuThul possible as well.

Revan can't really content so good with Palpatine and especially Luke, and to an lesser extent Yoda, UnuThul and Plagueis. Shimrra also beats him, imho.
Arcann gets ragdolled by all, bar Shimrra, who still bests him.

I wouldn't try debating with Legend.

Nah, I don't try that he accept it, but maybe we can stop young people to become TOR Wankers.

There are less painful way to do that than trying to debate with Legend. Like carving out your lungs and smothering him with it.

Seems legit.

Could Shimrra or UnuThul hang with Yoda/Plagueis? It's possible.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Could Shimrra or UnuThul hang with Yoda/Plagueis? It's possible.
Hang with? Sure. Win against? Nah, at least Shimrra not.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Luke, Palpatine or Yoda solos him; Plagueis and UnuThul possible as well.
You make it sound like as if their victory is assured.

Even if Valkorion losses an avatar, how to stop him afterwards? Unless a restriction is being imposed.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Revan can't really content so good with Palpatine and especially Luke, and to an lesser extent Yoda, UnuThul and Plagueis. Shimrra also beats him, imho.
Arcann gets ragdolled by all, bar Shimrra, who still bests him.
Lmao @ Arcann getting ragdolled.

Revan and Arcann can preoccupy an opponent each until Valkorion scores a victory and turns the tide.

Valk is only allowed to die one time, like all others. Luke and Yoda could come back as force ghost, etc.
As RotS Palpatine is > Valkorion, I don't see RotS Sidious, Luke or Yoda losing against Valk.

Valkorion doesn't score an victory against Team 2, lol. And TFU Palpatine was implied, to be able ragdolling Galen/Vader, both of whom are above Arcann.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Valk is only allowed to die one time, like all others. Luke and Yoda could come back as force ghost, etc.
As RotS Palpatine is > Valkorion, I don't see RotS Sidious, Luke or Yoda losing against Valk.

Valkorion doesn't score an victory against Team 2, lol. And TFU Palpatine was implied, to be able ragdolling Galen/Vader, both of whom are above Arcann.
Fair.

How is Palpatine > Valkorion?

PT/OT Team wins in a decent fight.

NJO Team stands little/no chance of winning.

Beyond the vision of the Jedi Knights, somewhere within the darkness, the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power bides his time. As his strength grows, his plans begin to shape the course of the galaxy, and his snares await the unsuspecting.
--Taken from The Complete Visual Dictionary

Originally posted by Geistalt
NJO Team stands little/no chance of winning.

How come?

Tbfh, I would say that Team NJO would have the best chances, if this would be perfect teamwork.

What is with Saba? Shimrra is in the fight, not she, lmao.
Also, UnuThul >>>> Saba

@Gei This is not Saba, this is Shimrra, i.e. this dude:

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/wollfmyth209/blog/shimrra-jamaane-respect-thread/128478/

And UnuThul isn't a weak link, not when he's performing decently enough against Luke.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Beyond the vision of the Jedi Knights, somewhere within the darkness, the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power bides his time. As his strength grows, his plans begin to shape the course of the galaxy, and his snares await the unsuspecting.
--Taken from The Complete Visual Dictionary
Palpatine > The Son confirmed?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Palpatine > The Son confirmed?
Entities are usually not included in this lists

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Entities are usually not included in this lists
Valkorion is an entity

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Valkorion is an entity
No real one

Originally posted by MythLord
@Gei This is not Saba, this is Shimrra, i.e. this dude:

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/wollfmyth209/blog/shimrra-jamaane-respect-thread/128478/

And UnuThul isn't a weak link, not when he's performing decently enough against Luke. Yeah; no. Luke dismembered him with negligible risk. He's more around Mace/Tyranus/Kyle/Gaalan's tier as a combatant.

Originally posted by Geistalt
Yeah; no. Luke dismembered him with negligible risk. He's more around Mace/Tyranus/Kyle/Gaalan's tier as a combatant.
Lol. Firstly, Tyranus/Mace > Kyle/Gaalan, and second: it was an serious Luke. An serious Luke roflstomps the likes of Tyranus with ease. Also, UnuThul mindraped Jaina, Zekk and co., deflected turbolasers, and dominated Luke in their first fight.
He would ragdoll Windu, Tyranus, Kyle and Gaalaan.

TOR TEAM
Valkorion is superior to anybody on any team and no one can beat him 1 on 1.

Revan is superior to Plagueis, and outmatched by either Yoda or Palpatine. He is also superior to Shimrra, equal to UnuThul and below Luke.

Arcann is superior to Plagueis barely, whole level below Yoda and Palpatine. He is about equal or slightly superior to Shimrra. Below UnuThul, totally outmatched by Luke.

PT TEAM
* Sidious falls to Valkorion and Luke only.
* Yoda falls to Valkorion and Luke only.
* Plagueis gets murdered by Valkorion, falls to Revan and Arcann. Can't say about UnuThul or Shimrra. Inferior to Luke, obviously.

NJO TEAM
* Luke falls only to Valkorion.
* UnuThul falls only to Valkorion. Equal to Revan.
* Shimrra falls to Valkorion, Revan, Sidious and Yoda.

Yeah, I think PT wins. Yoda gives a good fight to Valkorion, Sidious slays Arcann easily at the time, and Plagueis gives a good fight to Revan. Then Sidious can aid Plagueis and they quickly overpower Revan. Yoda is probably still alive by then, and even if he's not, Sidious and Plagueis can overrun him together if they are lucky.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Lol. Firstly, Tyranus/Mace > Kyle/Gaalan, and second: it was an serious Luke. An serious Luke roflstomps the likes of Tyranus with ease. Also, UnuThul mindraped Jaina, Zekk and co., deflected turbolasers, and dominated Luke in their first fight.
He would ragdoll Windu, Tyranus, Kyle and Gaalaan. Disagreed about Dooku and Mace being > Kyle, and he evidently didn't want to kill him.

Originally posted by Geistalt
Even though he evidently didn't intend to kill him.
Not intending to kill =/= holding back.
You asked me if I ever played KotOR II in another therad. Now I ask you: did you've ever read DN?
Luke as of his fight with UnuThul was the "heart of the force", not even "the black hole in the center of the galaxy" could have moved him. That isn't holding back, lmfao.

Originally posted by Geistalt
Disagreed about Dooku and Mace being > Kyle.
Lol.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
No real one


What is real entity?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


What is real entity?
The Ones, Zonoma Sekot, Waru etc.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
The Ones, Zonoma Sekot, Waru etc.
My friend,

Abeloth was a (human) woman before her transformation.

The Ones were normal Celestials before their transformation.

The Emperor was a Sith Pureblood before his transformation.

Every entity has a past. Doesn't makes one lesser than the other (ignoring strengths and weaknesses).

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
My friend,

Abeloth was a (human) woman before her transformation.

The Ones were normal Celestials before their transformation.

The Emperor was a Sith Pureblood before his transformation.

Every entity has a past. Doesn't makes one lesser than the other (ignoring strengths and weaknesses).
Entities are usually immortal- The Ones could just be killed by the Dagger of Mortis, we don't know how Waru can be killed, etc.
Also, The Ones could destroy the Universe, Waru has his own dimension, etc.
Valkorion isn't comparble.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Entities are usually immortal- The Ones could just be killed by the Dagger of Mortis, we don't know how Waru can be killed, etc.
Also, The Ones could destroy the Universe, Waru has his own dimension, etc.
Valkorion isn't comparble.
The Father was in decline (dying) due to unknown reasons. Dagger of Mortis was a swift method to eliminate his kind.

Valkorion is immortal. He cannot be dismissed through conventional methods either.

The Ones couldn't destroy the Universe. A neutral revelation is that The Ones could ruin the galaxy with their powers due to their eternal struggles. This is why the Father build the realm of Mortis.

---

Entities may significantly differ from each other in nature and vary in capabilities accordingly. This doesn't imply that some are semi-entity. Ever heard of it?

Normal Celestials? Lmao. And Abby was created by the Celestials to be, in a way of speaking, similar to them. And Valkorion didn't drink nor take a bath in the two biggest nexuses of power in galactic history.

And the Son doesn't use Sith powers, since he's beyond Sith, so the quote doesn't apply to him. And any entity reduces Valkorion to dust, BTW, with the exception of Taalon, perhaps, but he still wins.

Originally posted by MythLord
Normal Celestials? Lmao. And Abby was created by the Celestials to be, in a way of speaking, similar to them.
The original Celestials were a species or civilization.

The Ones did not create Abeloth. Exposure to the implied nexuses corrupted her, and transformed her into a virtually immortal being. The Father became concerned and left.

Originally posted by MythLord
And Valkorion didn't drink nor take a bath in the two biggest nexuses of power in galactic history.
LMAO

One doesn't needs to be exposed to those nexuses to become an entity.

Originally posted by MythLord
And the Son doesn't use Sith powers, since he's beyond Sith, so the quote doesn't apply to him.
Sith powers are Dark Side powers in general. The two terms are mutually exclusive.

That quote doesn't precludes the Son from assessment. This is your baseless rationalization.

Originally posted by MythLord
And any entity reduces Valkorion to dust, BTW, with the exception of Taalon, perhaps, but he still wins.
Ridiculous assumptions.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
The original Celestials were a species or civilization.

The Ones did not create Abeloth. Exposure to the implied nexuses corrupted her, and transformed her into a virtually immortal being. The Father became concerned and left.

No they weren't. The Celestials were a family of incomprehensible beings made out of Force energy. They are beyond any mortal comprehension.

And they did create Abeloth, or rather the young servant who then became Abeloth from those two nexuses:

"Abeloth was a being created as a servant by the three Celestials: the Father, the Daughter, and the Son."

-- Galactic Architecture 101 and the History of Centerpoint Station

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
LMAO

One doesn't needs to be exposed to those nexuses to become an entity.

I am aware, I'm just noting they became entities from a nexus that dwarfs Valkorion.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Sith powers are Dark Side powers in general. The two terms are mutually exclusive.

That quote doesn't precludes the Son from assessment. This is your baseless rationalization.

The Son is canonically beyond the power of Sith, and in any case he at least has quotes retconning Sidious being him > him, whereas Valkorion does not.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Ridiculous assumptions.

More like logical fact. Valky isn't touching someone of the Ones' power.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Exposure to the implied nexuses corrupted her, and transformed her into a virtually immortal being. From what I recall, she was corrupted by the Font of Power and the Pool of Knowledge (the Ones did lengthen her lifespan so as to effectively make her immortal, though).

I don't have time to make a protracted response, but it's worth noting that the Killiks can't distinguish fact from fiction, so whatever gets revealed in Fate of the Jedi: Apocalypse is not definitively true and is definitely overridden by any objective source that contradicts it.

Round 1 NJO. Luke is the MVP, with Valky a close second. Sheev is next, though considerably lower, and UnuThul after that. UnuThul can handle Yoda, and Revan can contend with Plagueis as long as it stays a Force engagement, and Shimrra would beat Arcann. Ultimately UnuThul beats Yoda at range, but would lose in melee. Plagueis would beat Revan, but after a long battle. Whatever the arrangement, Luke beats all his opponents, but fighting Valkorion would tire him out. Shimrra would beat Arcann before UnuThul and Yoda finished up, so they'd finish off Yoda, then clean up the rest, while Luke takes out at least one of the other primaries, and his teammates come to help with the last one. I really can't see anyone taking down team NJO here.

Round 2 is probably TOR, but I can see NJO pulling a close second. I see Arcann and Outlander beating any of the secondaries (primaries being Valk, Sheev, Luke) except maybe UnuThul and Yoda, and making Sheev ROTJ only makes him last longer, still the lowest of the primaries. Shimrra goes down first, and then either Outlander or Arcann would help Revan, while the other went to support Valkorion. After Plagueis goes down, it would be all four of the TOR team against Luke, as he probably would have gone for Sheev first. The TOR team takes down Luke, and then cleans up the rest of the combatants,