Did Lucas fail to make Anakin a compelling character?

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carthage
The ideal of Anakin as the tragic hero seems to me at best just something that exists on paper. Throughout TCW we don't see his motivations as well as in the Stover novelization of ROTS, and in the movies to many viewers he comes across as a Whiny and angsty ****. What moments in TCW or in other related novels in Legends do you see Anakin closely resembling the ideal of the tragic hero? Where do you think Lucas messed up in his portrayal of Anakin in the films?

quanchi112
Casting Hayden. Awful, awful choice.

Zenwolf
He seemed fine to me in the movies. /Shrug

Deronn_solo
Anakin, in The Clone Wars, is one of my favorite Star Wars characters, tbh.

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Anakin, in The Clone Wars, is one of my favorite Star Wars characters, tbh.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Casting Hayden. Awful, awful choice.

Kurk
Anakin, along with Dooku, is my favorite SW character of all-time. My favorite portrayal of him is in TCW.

Examples of him portrayed as the tragic hero:

- First one which comes to mind is when Tano leaves him
- Next is when Kenobi's death is faked
- Many of the scenes with Padme

I agree that his portrayal in RotS movie is god awful and overall an unlikable character.

quanchi112
What a horrible opinion you have.

JKBart
Anakin is awesome and great within TCW and many novels.

Movie Anakin is a ****, emotionally unstable teen, and that kind of a genius that still has asperger and 0 social ability or comprehension.

ares834
TCW is pretty much the only time I have ever found Anakin (not Vader) compelling.

Kurk
Originally posted by quanchi112
What a horrible opinion you have. please elaborate

Geistalt
It's more that he was designed to be a whiny, self-entitled narcissist; that's what made the PT tragic.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Kurk
please elaborate You like shitty characters.

Kurk
Originally posted by quanchi112
You like shitty characters. not an argument

Kurk
Let's see who Quanchi's favorite canon characters were earlier this year :

Originally posted by quanchi112
1. Snoke
2. Darth Maul
3. Palpatine
4. Kylo Ren
5. Darth Vader
6. Count Dooku
7. Yoda
8. General Grievous
9. Obi Wan Kenobi
10. Jango Fett

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=621734&pagenumber=2

Funny how he hates on half of them

quanchi112
Originally posted by Kurk
not an argument You asked me to elaborate on a subjective topic. I did so. I have done so at length with regards to the characters you choose to champion.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Kurk
Let's see who Quanchi's favorite canon characters were earlier this year :



http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=621734&pagenumber=2

Funny how he hates on half of them That just shows how objective I am. Thanks for giving me the assist.

smile

Kurk
Originally posted by quanchi112
You asked me to elaborate on a subjective topic. I did so. I have done so at length with regards to the characters you choose to champion.
You originally criticized my opinion on Anakin as a character with "what a horrible opinion you have". I asked you to elaborate as to what aspect you disagree with. You responded with "you like shitty characters". I'm assuming you don't have anything rational to say in regards to the actual story of Anakin and his development as a character, regardless of his failures.
Originally posted by quanchi112
You asked me to elaborate on a subjective topic. I did so. I have done so at length with regards to the characters you choose to champion.
I agree that Anakin is a failure. This goes along with the theme of a tragic hero. It is about this particular aspect that I'm asking for your opinion on. You've only expressed your irrational feelings to me so far.
Originally posted by quanchi112
That just shows how objective I am. Thanks for giving me the assist.

smile
So you constantly bash on Yoda, Vader, Dooku, and Kenobi, yet they make your top 10 list. Explain how that works?

quanchi112
Originally posted by Kurk
You originally criticized my opinion on Anakin as a character with "what a horrible opinion you have". I asked you to elaborate as to what aspect you disagree with. You responded with "you like shitty characters". I'm assuming you don't have anything rational to say in regards to the actual story of Anakin and his development as a character, regardless of his failures.

I agree that Anakin is a failure. This goes along with the theme of a tragic hero. It is about this particular aspect that I'm asking for your opinion on. You've only expressed your irrational feelings to me so far.

So you constantly bash on Yoda, Vader, Dooku, and Kenobi, yet they make your top 10 list. Explain how that works? This is opinion based and will come down to us debating whether blue is a cool color or not. You can't prove anything but I'll dissect it since you're begging for my help. Anakin was not tragic in the sense he took absolutely no responsibility for anything that occurred in his life. Like an emotionally retarded child he would always sob over anything that he deemed unfair. His lack of charisma, his tears, his pouting, his manipulation at the hands of Palpatine to the point the one lynchpin was dead. Despite padme's death he still faithfully served him and delivered his own son into that monsters hands. He was a truly disgusting emotional retarded from birth to death.

His own actions caused him to fail. And yet he didn't see any of that and refused to grow as a person. I enjoyed his suffering and pain. I smiled when he got on his charred knees when he learned about Padme's death. Stay girlie, Anakin.

Obviously the Star Wars top ten list has a lot of weaklings and morons on it. I don't excuse stupidity unlike yourself, Anakin-gay/boi.

Geistalt
Yeah; it still doesn't change the fact that he, as a character, was a total asswipe.

Kurk
Originally posted by quanchi112
This is opinion based and will come down to us debating whether blue is a cool color or not. You can't prove anything but I'll dissect it since you're begging for my help. Anakin was not tragic in the sense he took absolutely no responsibility for anything that occurred in his life. Like an emotionally retarded child he would always sob over anything that he deemed unfair. His lack of charisma, his tears, his pouting, his manipulation at the hands of Palpatine to the point the one lynchpin was dead. Despite padme's death he still faithfully served him and delivered his own son into that monsters hands. He was a truly disgusting emotional retarded from birth to death.

His own actions caused him to fail. And yet he didn't see any of that and refused to grow as a person. I enjoyed his suffering and pain. I smiled when he got on his charred knees when he learned about Padme's death. Stay girlie, Anakin.

Obviously the Star Wars top ten list has a lot of weaklings and morons on it. I don't excuse stupidity unlike yourself, Anakin-gay/boi.
Notice I said that I agreed that his character was unlikable in RotS. You didn't comment on his portrayal in TCW. If you don't excuse stupidity, are you admitting that your top 10 list is stupid?

quanchi112
Originally posted by Kurk
Notice I said that I agreed that his character was unlikable in RotS. You didn't comment on his portrayal in TCW. If you don't excuse stupidity, are you admitting that your top 10 list is stupid? My top ten isnt entirely based off intelligence. I am saying I won't excuse it but there are many traits I like in a character. He's in my top ten which shows there aren't many cool characters in all of Star Wars.

Balta Skywalker
Originally posted by quanchi112
You like shitty characters.

You miss him as your apprentice, don't you?

quanchi112
Originally posted by Balta Skywalker
You miss him as your apprentice, don't you? He wasn't very smart or likeable so no.

Balta Skywalker
Originally posted by quanchi112
He wasn't very smart or likeable so no.

He was the only person who ever liked you.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Balta Skywalker
He was the only person who ever liked you. Based on ?

Balta Skywalker
Originally posted by quanchi112
Based on ?

He decided to side with you. To be with you, to act like a friend with you. While the rest of us treat you like you really are, garbage.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Balta Skywalker
He decided to side with you. To be with you, to act like a friend with you. While the rest of us treat you like you really are, garbage. Again what is this based off of ? You really seem to care about what others think of you. It's an Internet forum you pile of loner shit. Continue to bring about feelings you pos.

Balta Skywalker
Originally posted by quanchi112
Again what is this based off of ? You really seem to care about what others think of you. It's an Internet forum you pile of loner shit. Continue to bring about feelings you pos.

Feelings are the way we express each other. You did bring a lot of feelings with that one message.

Again, it is based off of him siding with you in everysingle thread you participated in.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Balta Skywalker
Feelings are the way we express each other. You did bring a lot of feelings with that one message.

Again, it is based off of him siding with you in everysingle thread you participated in. I do not base my opinion off of feelings I base then on actual evidence. That's what separates me from yourself and the Kurks of the Internet.

Balta Skywalker
Originally posted by quanchi112
I do not base my opinion off of feelings I base then on actual evidence. That's what separates me from yourself and the Kurks of the Internet.

You mean Kurk, your former follower?

I'm sorry, but you couldn't be more than a jerk.

Good day, I'm done here.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Balta Skywalker
You mean Kurk, your former follower?

I'm sorry, but you couldn't be more than a jerk.

Good day, I'm done here. And you're an obvious sock from a member too cowardly to engage me from their primary account. Begone you pitiful wretch.

Balta Skywalker
Originally posted by quanchi112
And you're an obvious sock from a member too cowardly to enable me from their primary account. Begone you pitiful wretch.

Ummm; excuse me? Now you believe I'm some old guy who wants to piss you on another account?

Let's add paranoid on your list of mental diseases.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Balta Skywalker
Ummm; excuse me? Now you believe I'm some old guy who wants to piss you on another account?

Let's add paranoid on your list of mental diseases. You are an obvious sock but I am not surprised. Quit personally attacking because you cannot attack the strength of my position. Trek wins over Wars. Kelvin >>> Ot.

Balta Skywalker
Originally posted by quanchi112
You are an obvious sock but I am not surprised. Quit personally attacking because you cannot attack the strength of my position. Trek wins over Wars. Kelvin >>> Ot.

Then what the **** are you doing on the Star Wars section of the forum, if you like the generic franchise of Star Trek?

quanchi112
Originally posted by Balta Skywalker
Then what the **** are you doing on the Star Wars section of the forum, if you like the generic franchise of Star Trek? I love both. I also like to go to see the opposition. That's called being open minded. I also do not favor trek over wars across the board. The Kelvin timeline does stomp the Ot era.

Balta Skywalker
Originally posted by quanchi112
I love both. I also like to go to see the opposition. That's called being open minded. I also do not favor trek over wars across the board. The Kelvin timeline does stomp the Ot era.

Oh, you're SO OPEN MINDED, BY SAYING THAT EVERYONE IS A ****ING COWARD, WHILE YOU ARE THE MOTHER****ING KING.

**** you. I'm not talking to you ever again, even if that sounds childish, I give a ****.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Balta Skywalker
Oh, you're SO OPEN MINDED, BY SAYING THAT EVERYONE IS A ****ING COWARD, WHILE YOU ARE THE MOTHER****ING KING.

**** you. I'm not talking to you ever again, even if that sounds childish, I give a ****. You sound like I destroyed your fragile ego. That's another notch on my belt. I take pride in decimating the weak. Another coward too emotional to engage me further.

Balta Skywalker
Originally posted by quanchi112
You sound like I destroyed your fragile ego. That's another notch on my belt. I take pride in decimating the weak. Another coward too emotional to engage me further.

You're a weird guy.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Balta Skywalker
You're a weird guy. So which is it guy ? You have said you're done multiple times now but you keep coming back for more. If you're going to come back at least debate because these emotional outbursts only make you look weak.

Kurk
Originally posted by quanchi112
He wasn't very smart or likeable so no. I had to impersonate you somehow...

quanchi112
Originally posted by Kurk
I had to impersonate you somehow... You were being yourself. Annoying you were.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by Kurk
Let's see who Quanchi's favorite canon characters were earlier this year :



http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=621734&pagenumber=2

Funny how he hates on half of them


Well he's a Star Wars Hater so makes sense.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well he's a Star Wars Hater so makes sense. I am as objective as they come and a Snoke fan first and foremost.

Kurk
Originally posted by quanchi112
I am as objective as they come and a Snoke fan first and foremost.

https://media.giphy.com/media/3o6ZtrjlFZVIBTELde/giphy.gif

McP
Aside of casting Hayden (which I'm not entirely sure, that it was mistake at all), Lucas should make Anakin older. Luke, Han, Leia, Obi-Wan and Padme, all had 3 movies. Anakin has just a two. More then that, there was a lot of wasted time for Qui-Gon. We should see much more relationships between Anakin-Obi-Wan or Anakin-Padme. Anakin at the age 15-18 would be much more convincing as:
- as a future Padme's lover
- as podrace winner
- as savior during final battle
Fall of Anakin would be much better, if PT would be a real trylogy. TPM fails as part of trylogy and part of Saga.

Darth Thor
Makes sense Quanchi is the no.1 Snoke fan. Given Snoke has no character, feats or personality as of now, but Quanchi is desperate to jump onto a NU SW Villain whose better than Vader.

He was supposed to jump onto Kylo, but then TFA made it clear Kylo wasn't as powerful, so he had to jump wagon onto Snoke instead. He's now desperately hoping they don't say the same about Snoke laughing out loud

quanchi112
Originally posted by Kurk
https://media.giphy.com/media/3o6ZtrjlFZVIBTELde/giphy.gif Do not be upset. Maybe when you beg to be my apprentice again I'll allow it.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Makes sense Quanchi is the no.1 Snoke fan. Given Snoke has no character, feats or personality as of now, but Quanchi is desperate to jump onto a NU SW Villain whose better than Vader.

He was supposed to jump onto Kylo, but then TFA made it clear Kylo wasn't as powerful, so he had to jump wagon onto Snoke instead. He's now desperately hoping they don't say the same about Snoke laughing out loud So you are lying once again. It's like saying Windu didn't have a personality. Snoke is my cup of tea. Immensely powerful and not as foolish as Palpatine. Kylo is greater than Vader as well IMO.

Both are greater than their predecessors. I also was more excited about Snoke before the film making me the first. I am always the trend setter unlike your fickle obsessions over the years. Kylo's power will also grow while Vader's power when he first was confined to the suit was hilariously diminished making your comment ironic.


Long live the First Order.

Kurk
Originally posted by quanchi112
So you are lying once again. It's like saying Windu didn't have a personality. Snoke is my cup of tea. Immensely powerful and not as foolish as Palpatine. Kylo is greater than Vader as well IMO.

Both are greater than their predecessors. I also was more excited about Snoke before the film making me the first. I am always the trend setter unlike your fickle obsessions over the years. Kylo's power will also grow while Vader's power when he first was confined to the suit was hilariously diminished making your comment ironic.


Long live the First Order. is there anything to suggest that Snoke isn't "foolish like Palpatine" based on his showings so far?

I mean what's the difference between:
DD9LQbTa7cU
and
pg7ulnZYUxE

quanchi112
Originally posted by Kurk
is there anything to suggest that Snoke isn't "foolish like Palpatine" based on his showings so far?

I mean what's the difference between:
DD9LQbTa7cU
and
pg7ulnZYUxE Rotj. Palpatine's actions in that film were naive, stupid, and far too trusting when he never had to put himself in the position just to acquire Luke.

ares834
Originally posted by Kurk
I mean what's the difference between:
DD9LQbTa7cU
and
pg7ulnZYUxE

Other then the fact that the second clip is infinitely more compelling? Not much sadly.

quanchi112
This anti Snoke propaganda will stop I guarantee it. You people really are living in the past with that doomed emperor Palpatine.

Darth Thor
Honestly the villains were the worst thing about TFA. The strengths of the film were in the heroes IMO.

The Ellimist
Movie Anakin could've benefited from:

- displaying some ramifications for the Tusken slaughter
- having some sort of ideological conflict beyond just love and hormones
- more altruistic moments to make him look like a hero

ares834
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Honestly the villains were the worst thing about TFA. The strengths of the film were in the heroes IMO.

thumb down

Yes, Snoke was poor. But Kylo was great.

As for the heroes, well, even they aren't all that compelling. Well acted certainly, but all of them had little substance.

ares834
Originally posted by quanchi112
This anti Snoke propaganda will stop I guarantee it. You people really are living in the past with that doomed emperor Palpatine.

I hope so. I had high hopes going in but was let down immensely. Hopefully, Rian Johnson can make him compelling or, better yet, have Kylo usurp Snoke to help further differentiate the ST from the OT.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Honestly the villains were the worst thing about TFA. The strengths of the film were in the heroes IMO. You make me sick. The heroes were weaker than the villains by far. So you basically like Rey and Finn better than Snoke and Kylo. Ewwwwwww.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by ares834
thumb down

Yes, Snoke was poor. But Kylo was great.

As for the heroes, well, even they aren't all that compelling. Well acted certainly, but all of them had little substance.


Nah, Finn was great to watch every scene he was in. And Harrison Ford gave a great performance as the old Han. Even Chewie was funny in almost every scene, and we know BB8 nailed it. Rey was interesting as well. And of course the best scene in the entire film is when we finally see Luke.

Kylo on the other hand was just a cry baby. Instead of making him intimidating they used him for laughs.

No more cry baby villains for the next one please. Bring back that feeling when Vader walks into the room. Or when the doors open and you see Maul standing there. And if they can't do intimidating then at least give us the gravitas of a Dooku or a manipulative type like Palpatine.

S_W_LeGenD
PT story arc is terrible.

The war should have played a role in downfall of Anakin Skywalker. Witnessing death and destruction around him and being part of it.

darthbane77
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
PT story arc is terrible.

The war should have played a role in downfall of Anakin Skywalker. Witnessing death and destruction around him and being part of it. Kind of like Revan.

relentless1
Anakin was an annoying kid in ep 1, a shitty brat teenager in ep 2 and a decent human being in ep 3...story of Anakins downfall was straight forwardwas good enough but Hayden didn't ever come across as heroic when he needed to be in ep 3; that was the biggest strike against him tbh. If you watch TCW and ROTS, its as if they are two different Anakins. The cartoon version was much more believable of a hero with a dark side to him. Had he been like that in ROTS we could have gotten behind him a little more.


If youre really looking at the story; scrap the one apprentice plot point for the Sith and Jedi; have Qui Gon teaching both Obi Wan and Anakin in ep 1; develop a tight friendship between Padme, Anakin and Obi Wan hinting at a slight love triangle between the three in ep 2, have Dooku and Maul apprentice under Sidious at the same time, keep Maul alive until he's fed to Anakin in ep 3....

quanchi112
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Nah, Finn was great to watch every scene he was in. And Harrison Ford gave a great performance as the old Han. Even Chewie was funny in almost every scene, and we know BB8 nailed it. Rey was interesting as well. And of course the best scene in the entire film is when we finally see Luke.

Kylo on the other hand was just a cry baby. Instead of making him intimidating they used him for laughs.

No more cry baby villains for the next one please. Bring back that feeling when Vader walks into the room. Or when the doors open and you see Maul standing there. And if they can't do intimidating then at least give us the gravitas of a Dooku or a manipulative type like Palpatine. Your hatred for the new villains has been confirmed. You will try to do a 180 when episode 8 comes out. I'll be there to shut your flip flopping ass down.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by ares834
But Kylo was great.

Nah.

Kurk
I would've taken Kylo seriously had he not come off as an immature child (e.g going on rampages destroying his own military equipment). In my mind, he and prequel Skywalker come off as being equally childish.

quanchi112
He raged. Who cares ? You Kylo haters are making me sick. The man killed a Han Solo. Did Vader achieve that ? **** no.

Kurk

quanchi112

ares834
Kylo's emotional instability is part of what makes the character fun IMO.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Nah, Finn was great to watch every scene he was in. And Harrison Ford gave a great performance as the old Han. Even Chewie was funny in almost every scene, and we know BB8 nailed it. Rey was interesting as well. And of course the best scene in the entire film is when we finally see Luke.

Finn was fun sure. But he was almost entirely comedy relief and his arc in the film make little sense. At the beginning of the film he pretty much incapable of fighting, refuses to kill, and is traumatized by the death of his ST friends. A few scenes later he is casually killing his former soldiers.

Rey, meanwhile, is probably the least interesting character in the film. We're so distracted by her mysterious background and Daisy's performance that we fail to realize she has virtually no personality. Her only defining characteristics are that she is a badass who is good at everything and that she wants a family.

As for the returning characters, sure they were mostly fine other than the fact that they undo everything Luke did in the OT and completely regress all of Han Solo's character development. no expression

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Kylo on the other hand was just a cry baby. Instead of making him intimidating they used him for laughs.

What a thought provoking analysis, please tell me more.

Now, I'm not saying you have to like the villain. He certainly isn't a bad ass like Maul or Vader. At least not yet. But it the depth of the character that I find makes him so interesting.

Kurk
Originally posted by quanchi112
He is younger and isn't fully trained. BB8 had what the first order wanted. The location of you know who. They wanted that info so that's far more important to the grander scheme than Anakin's petty loss of his abysmal whore of a wife. I saw the way she looked at Kenobi. That ****ing skank.

They were much older so you're judging a much younger person to geriatrics. Horrible comparison. You will eat your words. Trust Quan.
Training has nothing to do with your temperament. Maul was young yet we never see him go on meaningless rampages. Why? Because he was heavily disciplined as a child. Kylo lacks the emotional intelligence and discipline.

Lol at the Padme comments. What Kenobi scene are you talking about?

I agree that generally speaking that younger people are more immature than older ones, but there are exceptions to the rule. Look at Maul; for the most part he was fairly mature and could control his emotions. Remember in TCW when Kenobi escapes from the turtle-tanker? Savage becomes impatient but Maul shows his discipline when he says he waited for so long and he can wait a little longer. He didn't start destroying shit when he didn't get his way like Kylo.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Kurk
Training has nothing to do with your temperament. Maul was young yet we never see him go on meaningless rampages. Why? Because he was heavily disciplined as a child. Kylo lacks the emotional intelligence and discipline.

Lol at the Padme comments. What Kenobi scene are you talking about?

I agree that generally speaking that younger people are more immature than older ones, but there are exceptions to the rule. Look at Maul; for the most part he was fairly mature and could control his emotions. Remember in TCW when Kenobi escapes from the turtle-tanker? Savage becomes impatient but Maul shows his discipline when he says he waited for so long and he can wait a little longer. He didn't start destroying shit when he didn't get his way like Kylo. Age, experience, etc. has to do with someone's temperament. We see Vader changed his after rots. Kylo is angry as most dark siders. Het gets frustrated but he's still fixated on his mission. That's what I want you care about anger like a girl.

Maul rages out as well. It's what the dark siders do. Emotions make them stronger. Maul is more well tuned and in control but he's also had more experience than Kylo whose training hasn't even concluded.

Kurk
Originally posted by quanchi112
Age, experience, etc. has to do with someone's temperament. We see Vader changed his after rots. Kylo is angry as most dark siders. Het gets frustrated but he's still fixated on his mission. That's what I want you care about anger like a girl.

Maul rages out as well. It's what the dark siders do. Emotions make them stronger. Maul is more well tuned and in control but he's also had more experience than Kylo whose training hasn't even concluded.
Because of the way Kylo carries himself, we're going to see him as immature and inexperienced. It's not an excuse to act like that. Smart people know how to get to stage 2 faster. Yes Maul rages, just like Dooku and Sidious, but they put their anger to "better use", as Dooku once told Savage. While Kylo takes out his anger on his own ship equipment, other sith put that energy into strategic planning for example.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Kurk
Because of the way Kylo carries himself, we're going to see him as immature and inexperienced. It's not an excuse to act like that. Smart people know how to get to stage 2 faster. Yes Maul rages, just like Dooku and Sidious, but they put their anger to "better use", as Dooku once told Savage. While Kylo takes out his anger on his own ship equipment, other sith put that energy into strategic planning for example. Due to his age and lack of experiences. That's to be expected. You're comparing him to men of twice his age. It's like comparing a 15 year old to a 40 year old. Kylo did nothing significant to the first order in terms of damage. Who cares ? You act like he brought down a star destroyer.

Vader was told to stand down for being childish when he forced choked that ranked official by Tarkin. That's embarrassing.

Kurk

quanchi112

Kurk
Originally posted by quanchi112
Well that makes you completely wrong. Brains don't even stop developing until a certain age yet you ignore this and hold eight year olds to the same standards as 30 year olds. Ridiculous.

Anakin acted impetuous, arrogant, and foolish as a Jedi. He was the chosen one. He later became much more disciplined with age but age doesn't matter to you.
Did I say anything about eight year-olds Quanchi? You should read closer attention next time. I agree with what you said about Anakin and as a result no-one liked him. Kylo acts just like him; so he is also an unlikable character. Don't you see? Until he changes that's just how it's going to be.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Kurk
Did I say anything about eight year-olds Quanchi? You should read closer attention next time. I agree with what you said about Anakin and as a result no-one liked him. Kylo acts just like him; so he is also an unlikable character. Don't you see? Until he changes that's just how it's going to be. Kylo didn't act just like him. He killed his own father. Just inexperienced and very angry. I really enjoyed this character. Much better than Vader the overhyped cripple who is dead.

Kurk
Originally posted by quanchi112
Kylo didn't act just like him. He killed his own father. Just inexperienced and very angry. I really enjoyed this character. Much better than Vader the overhyped cripple who is dead.
Kylo killed his father, Anakin killed many of the people he grew up with, fought with, and lived with since he was a child. He murdered dozens of children in cold blood. He tried to kill the closest person he had to a father/brother, Obi Wan. Yes he failed, but he did it without emotional conflict. That's pretty comparable to killing your own father.

Anakin and Kylo are both inexperienced and angry; we can check that box off.

So what's the true contrast here?

quanchi112
Originally posted by Kurk
Kylo killed his father, Anakin killed many of the people he grew up with, fought with, and lived with since he was a child. He murdered dozens of children in cold blood. He tried to kill the closest person he had to a father/brother, Obi Wan. Yes he failed, but he did it without emotional conflict. That's pretty comparable to killing your own father.

Anakin and Kylo are both inexperienced and angry; we can check that box off.

So what's the true contrast here? He felt betrayed by Kenobi. You hear him even turn on his own wife he was so out of his mind. Anakin never killed a family member., he chose to turn on the Jedi as a result of his actions and his love of Padme. No, it isn't since Han Solo was trying to be supportive and loving.

Kylo is much better. He was more mature than Anakin and didn't openly throughout the film. Anakin is a disgrace to the dark side.

Kurk
Originally posted by quanchi112
He felt betrayed by Kenobi. You hear him even turn on his own wife he was so out of his mind. Anakin never killed a family member., he chose to turn on the Jedi as a result of his actions and his love of Padme. No, it isn't since Han Solo was trying to be supportive and loving.

Kylo is much better. He was more mature than Anakin and didn't openly throughout the film. Anakin is a disgrace to the dark side. lol thanks for helping my point. His willingness to kill Padme shows he wasn't weak. Anakin also turned on the jedi because he was being treated unfairly. Palpatine points this out to him numerous times in the film. Lol Anakin didn't have a family member to kill after his mom died. The closest he had was Kenobi and Padme. So Solo was trying to be supportive and loving but Padme and Kenobi weren't? Give me a break.

Again, what shows that Kylo was significantly less immature than Anakin?

quanchi112
Originally posted by Kurk
lol thanks for helping my point. His willingness to kill Padme shows he wasn't weak. Anakin also turned on the jedi because he was being treated unfairly. Palpatine points this out to him numerous times in the film. Lol Anakin didn't have a family member to kill after his mom died. The closest he had was Kenobi and Padme. So Solo was trying to be supportive and loving but Padme and Kenobi weren't? Give me a break.

Again, what shows that Kylo was significantly less immature than Anakin? No, it shows he was weak. His entire reasoning for doing what he did was for her and then in a weak moment he attacked her. He was blinded by his own feelings to the point he lost it. The ultimate reason he turned was to save Padme. He even says he can't live without her. Pussy.

Kenobi drew his Lightsaber and went there to stop the maniac. He tired to reason with the crybaby but got what he deserved. He felt betrayed by Kenobi the same can't be said for Han and Ben.


His self reflection, he did what he intended on doing despite the lure of the light whereas Anakin sacrificed his ideals for his fear of losing Padme in the moment. He failed according to his ideals whereas Ben triumphed.

Kurk
lol the double-standards are hilarious. You say Anakin made an impulsive decision. Isn't that exactly what Kylo did at least twice?
Rage quit one:
jbOtDChiu5M
and two
zGKD0w8UEf4

Looks like Kylo was blinded by his feelings to the point where he lost it as well.

You say Vader was a disgrace to the sith, yet Kylo openly says to Vader's ghost that he feels a pull to the light. He asks Vader to show him the power of the darkness lol. Looks like Kylo was weak if anything. Doesn't have the balls to tell it to Snoke's face.
trsIcv3hWI4

quanchi112
Originally posted by Kurk
lol the double-standards are hilarious. You say Anakin made an impulsive decision. Isn't that exactly what Kylo did at least twice?
Rage quit one:
jbOtDChiu5M
and two
zGKD0w8UEf4

Looks like Kylo was blinded by his feelings to the point where he lost it as well.

You say Vader was a disgrace to the sith, yet Kylo openly says to Vader's ghost that he feels a pull to the light. He asks Vader to show him the power of the darkness lol. Looks like Kylo was weak if anything. Doesn't have the balls to tell it to Snoke's face.
trsIcv3hWI4 Kylo admitted he was conflicted. That's being honest with yourself. Anakin was delusional and when the time came he balked. He balked in a rather buffoonish way because he didn't want to kill her. He worshipped her like a puppy. He lost it again once Palpatine told him her fate. Kylo raged out but he didn't rage out at the cost of his ideals. Anakin did so many times. He even did so as Vader. His ideals changed so often who knew the hell that pansy even believed anymore.

Kylo is the inverse of Luke which means he didn't change. Luke stayed true to himself just as Kylo did. Anakin can't make the same claim. Your post is hilariously stupid and is avoiding my point entirely.

Kurk

Zenwolf
.....This was immature Kurk? Raging over losing your loved one and children, is immature? So he was also immature when Shmi died in his arms?

quanchi112

Kurk
Originally posted by Zenwolf
.....This was immature Kurk? Raging over losing your loved one and children, is immature? So he was also immature when Shmi died in his arms?
His response was immature. He could've channeled that energy into something more productive rather than destroying expensive medical equipment. Originally posted by quanchi112
I never said anything about being mentally healthy I said true to their ideals. Kylo was Vader wasn't.

Anakin embraced the Jedi ideals. Did you seriously see the films ? Did you miss his conversations with Palpatine ? He forfeited all of this in order to save Padme. He then wigs out and attacks her. He's a joke.

Kylo was being honest. He was being human but he resisted the pull of the light. Vader didn't believe there was a conflict so he lied to himself. Luke sensed it and was proven right. You would back an idiot who is delusional who turned to the light and talk smack about someone who faces their feelings and conquered them aka Kylo. Kylo passed his test while Vader failed it. Pretty cut and dry.
I was first referring to your claim of Anakin being delusional. A delusional person talks to a helmet about their problems and a healthy person talks to other people.

I'm talking about non-jedi ideals here. Regardless, there were few Anakin abided by as a jedi so you're not losing much when he turns to the dark-side. Anakin forfeited his ideals from the start by marrying Padme so what you said really has no substance. Palpatine simply manipulated him for his own purposes.

"Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering."

Anakin has demonstrated all of these values as a so-called jedi. With Ahsoka, with R2D2, with Kenobi, with Padme, with Rex. If you can argue that he didn't break the number one rule of jedi code of conduct of not forming bonds to others, I will do whatever you wish.
It's not like Palpatine had to brainwash Anakin; the problems were already present, he just built upon them. Being rejected the rank of master, the lack of trust by others, the bullying by Mace, The wrongful handling of Ahsoka's murder case. Anakin was upset to begin with.

Vader said that there was no conflict in front of his master. Before that he told Luke "It is too late for me, son" when offered to turn to the light, suggesting that Vader accepted he took the wrong path. Vader's story is over. We don't know what will happen to Kylo just yet. Kylo passed his initial test just like Vader passed his by fighting Kenobi and raiding the jedi temple. Not cut and dry at all.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Kurk
His response was immature. He could've channeled that energy into something more productive rather than destroying expensive medical equipment.

...Right cause I'm sure any other person would act out any other emotion. Especially when already mentally unstable.

Kurk
Originally posted by Zenwolf
...Right cause I'm sure any other person would act out any other emotion. Especially when already mentally unstable.
It takes discipline to control emotions. Anakin had none. You never see Dooku, Sidious, or Xizor act out of emotion. You could say it's because they're sociopaths, but I say it's because they're extremely disciplined and know how to think rationally.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Kurk
His response was immature. He could've channeled that energy into something more productive rather than destroying expensive medical equipment.
I was first referring to your claim of Anakin being delusional. A delusional person talks to a helmet about their problems and a healthy person talks to other people.

I'm talking about non-jedi ideals here. Regardless, there were few Anakin abided by as a jedi so you're not losing much when he turns to the dark-side. Anakin forfeited his ideals from the start by marrying Padme so what you said really has no substance. Palpatine simply manipulated him for his own purposes.

"Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering."

Anakin has demonstrated all of these values as a so-called jedi. With Ahsoka, with R2D2, with Kenobi, with Padme, with Rex. If you can argue that he didn't break the number one rule of jedi code of conduct of not forming bonds to others, I will do whatever you wish.
It's not like Palpatine had to brainwash Anakin; the problems were already present, he just built upon them. Being rejected the rank of master, the lack of trust by others, the bullying by Mace, The wrongful handling of Ahsoka's murder case. Anakin was upset to begin with.

Vader said that there was no conflict in front of his master. Before that he told Luke "It is too late for me, son" when offered to turn to the light, suggesting that Vader accepted he took the wrong path. Vader's story is over. We don't know what will happen to Kylo just yet. Kylo passed his initial test just like Vader passed his by fighting Kenobi and raiding the jedi temple. Not cut and dry at all. That isn't delusional that's how he chose to go about his inner conflict. He recognized it was there. A delusional person denies there's a problem. I don't care if Kylo is masturbating furiously while he's looking at the helmet its fucjing irrelevant. The fact I have to hold your hand your hand through something even the uneducated you should be able to grasp is a waste of my time.

Anakin loved her so he violated a rule not the same as embracing ideals completely opposite to his own. He was a traitor to the Jedi and slaughtered them. Nothing worse than being a member of something and becoming a traitor. Kylo insulted Finn by calling him a traitor. It's awful and Vader was a traitor to both in the end.


Palpatine did have to manipulate him and despite all those things you just described he still didn't turn until he was forced to choose with Windu present. He turned Palpatine over to the Jedi. That's the only reason they even knew. You have no comprehension when it comes to this whatsoever.

Vader failed his family test. Kylo passed it. Apples to apples comparison. We have a comparable feat. Kylo already slayed the Jedi he trained with under Luke you fool hence Luke's chickenshit seclusion. I have this every which way because I'm smart. Most on here are lemmings and don't think for themselves.
smile

Kurk
Originally posted by quanchi112
That isn't delusional that's how he chose to go about his inner conflict. He recognized it was there. A delusional person denies there's a problem. I don't care if Kylo is masturbating furiously while he's looking at the helmet its fucjing irrelevant. The fact I have to hold your hand your hand through something even the uneducated you should be able to grasp is a waste of my time.

Anakin loved her so he violated a rule not the same as embracing ideals completely opposite to his own. He was a traitor to the Jedi and slaughtered them. Nothing worse than being a member of something and becoming a traitor. Kylo insulted Finn by calling him a traitor. It's awful and Vader was a traitor to both in the end.


Palpatine did have to manipulate him and despite all those things you just described he still didn't turn until he was forced to choose with Windu present. He turned Palpatine over to the Jedi. That's the only reason they even knew. You have no comprehension when it comes to this whatsoever.

Vader failed his family test. Kylo passed it. Apples to apples comparison. We have a comparable feat. Kylo already slayed the Jedi he trained with under Luke you fool hence Luke's chickenshit seclusion. I have this every which way because I'm smart. Most on here are lemmings and don't think for themselves.
smile
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https://media.giphy.com/media/HPPo897APrNh6/giphy.gif
I'm sure masturbating furiously is how you deal with your problems Quanchi. I'm not suprised. Anyway both acknowledge their inner conflicts. good. let's move on.

Paragraph 2:
Let's see, the Sith play off emotion, fear, anger, hate. Anakin was emotional and feared for the loss of his mother, Padme, Ahsoka, and Kenobi. He usually gets angry as a result when his fears become reality. The loss of Shmi caused him to go on a murderous rampage as a result of his anger. He later said he hated them directly to Padme's face. One example of many. He completely rejected jedi ideals from the beginning. Please try to argue that he didn't. Anakin achieved the prophecy of the chosen one and brought peace in the end. That's his role.

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I don't disagree. Anakin may have disagreed with the jedi, but that doesn't mean you have to embrace sith values. It's not an easy choice.

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Vader completed the same tests early in his life like Kylo. He turned near the end of his life. Kylo is still very young and anything can happen during that time. Things are not always as they seem.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Kurk
Paragraph 1:
]
I'm sure masturbating furiously is how you deal with your problems Quanchi. I'm not suprised. Anyway both acknowledge their inner conflicts. good. let's move on.


Vader said "there is no conflict." You can hear him say it 1:49:49 in the film. Did you watch the film ? You seem rather noobish in your star wars knowledge. Point refuted.


No, he didn't. He believed in the Jedi way and actively fought for the Jedi. He was always weak though and dipped out of both paths along the way. He's a weak person. You're ignoring the clone wars animated shows, his heroic deeds, his love for Tano, and his love for Kenobi.

He even says, "What have I done," immediately after he helped Palpatine against Windu. That wouldn't come from someone who was already a Sith who embraced their ideals prior to those events.



3: I never said it was an easy choice I said he was delusional to believe he wasn't having an inner conflict when he denied this to Luke. We learn later in the film Luke was right about him.

4: See you're an asshat. You first tried to create some kind of evil points since he killed his fellow Jedi but again change the goalposts because you're too stupid to realize Kylo did the same thing, not the argument for you becomes at the end of his life. Irrelevant. Kylo overcame the light over his own father when the time came. Snoke remarked how it was his biggest test. He passed it. The same cannot be said of delusional Vader who lied to Luke and himself when he said there is no conflict. Game, set, match.

Kurk
Originally posted by quanchi112
Vader said "there is no conflict." You can hear him say it 1:49:49 in the film. Did you watch the film ? You seem rather noobish in your star wars knowledge. Point refuted.


No, he didn't. He believed in the Jedi way and actively fought for the Jedi. He was always weak though and dipped out of both paths along the way. He's a weak person. You're ignoring the clone wars animated shows, his heroic deeds, his love for Tano, and his love for Kenobi.

He even says, "What have I done," immediately after he helped Palpatine against Windu. That wouldn't come from someone who was already a Sith who embraced their ideals prior to those events.



3: I never said it was an easy choice I said he was delusional to believe he wasn't having an inner conflict when he denied this to Luke. We learn later in the film Luke was right about him.

4: See you're an asshat. You first tried to create some kind of evil points since he killed his fellow Jedi but again change the goalposts because you're too stupid to realize Kylo did the same thing, not the argument for you becomes at the end of his life. Irrelevant. Kylo overcame the light over his own father when the time came. Snoke remarked how it was his biggest test. He passed it. The same cannot be said of delusional Vader who lied to Luke and himself when he said there is no conflict. Game, set, match.
Did you watch the movie Quan?
Before he said there is no conflict in front of Sidious, he said this to Luke:
dc4q4lmGjFM
There is clearly conflict if he stands there for a minute watching his son getting electrocuted before deciding to throw Sidious down a reactor shaft.

I never said Anakin was a sith before Palpatine, but rather that he was in conflict with the jedi order. Their handling of Tano pissed him off as did their refusal to grant him the rank of master. Qui-Gon rejected many of the ideals of the jedi yet he wasn't a sith. It's not all black and white. I'm not ignoring TCW. It establishes his attachments to characters as it does the dark-side of Anakin as a result of his attachment and love for those characters. A blessing and a curse.
w8KadEulEWg

3. I already cited the time when he admitted it to Luke before their fight. Obviously in front of Sidious he's not going to say "there is a conflict".

4. I've already addressed the second half of this. Storming the temple was Vader's test as killing Solo was Ren's test. What's more to discuss? Vader's story is complete, Kylo still has two more movies.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Kurk
Did you watch the movie Quan?
Before he said there is no conflict in front of Sidious, he said this to Luke:
dc4q4lmGjF

So this is what you post. laughing out loud

Another delusional quote because we literally see it wasn't too late for him. He came back as a force ghost and as a Jedi. Are you trolling that's the only thing that can excuse this blatant stupidity.

There was conflict in him prior to this moment and he was delusional to say there wasn't. Luke was right when he sensed it. Vader was delusional.

Anakin was always in conflict with everything he didn't agree with and took no responsibility himself which made him extremely immature. Qui wasn't weak like Anakin that's the whole point. You don't have to be perfect to be a Jedi but Anakin was weak and chose the other path. He stayed on it despite losing Padme. What a loser. It was only a curse. He had a terrible life because of this.


3. So now you're saying he was too much of a pansy to defend his own son in front of his master. Now you're saying he was lying and a coward. You continue to change the goalposts. None of this even matters as he failed. He went back to the light but Kylo didn't despite his inner conflict.

4. No, his own son was the test. His love for his son brought him back which proves it was harder than killing Jedi. Ren already slaughtered his former knights of Ren. That's two tests he passed.

Kylo killed a family member but Vader was unable to let the emperor kill his son. You've lost.

Kurk
lol at your fundamentalist approach again. You know just as well that in that context after Luke asks him to let go of his hate Vader's response suggests he's conflicted. He doesn't say "no, look at the power I have". Anyone with any critical reading/listening skills can interpret what it means.

Exactly, Vader was conflicted and at least recognized it before their fight.

Quanchi you are a genius. He should have admitted to Sidious that he was contemplating turning to the light-side and saving Luke. Genius plan. That's why Kylo told Snoke about his uncertainty with the dark-side right?

I think I'm running out of energy for this at 12:30am. I applaud you on your bullshitting abilities and hope to continue this bickering some other time.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Kurk
lol at your fundamentalist approach again. You know just as well that in that context after Luke asks him to let go of his hate Vader's response suggests he's conflicted. He doesn't say "no, look at the power I have". Anyone with any critical reading/listening skills can interpret what it means.

Exactly, Vader was conflicted and at least recognized it before their fight.

Quanchi you are a genius. He should have admitted to Sidious that he was contemplating turning to the light-side and saving Luke. Genius plan. That's why Kylo told Snoke about his uncertainty with the dark-side right?

I think I'm running out of energy for this at 12:30am. I applaud you on your bullshitting abilities and hope to continue this bickering some other time. He flat out says, "There is no conflict." Once again you ignore what words mean because you get really desperate. Actions matter not words. Kylo killed his father. Vader loved his son too much to do so. Period.

During the fight he lied and said he wasn't. Once again it doesn't matter since Vader failed whereas Kylo prevailed.

Kylo said he'd be successful and he was. Snoke successfully seduced him Palpatine failed.


My position is correct. Your flip flop debating is all over the place. You change your position and distance yourself from the results of both. Kylo was successful Vader failed.

Kurk

quanchi112
So basically you confirmed my position that Vader indeed was delusional to deny being conflicted at the moment when Luke proposed the question. He was also wrong that it was too late for him as we see upon the films conclusion. All in all Vader couldn't rise above his conflict whereas Ben Solo clearly did so thus far. As I said Ben Solo succeeded where Anakin failed. Kylo lives. He also tried to kill friends of Han Solo and screamed, "traitor," at Finn. I can't quote you for some reason it all disappears when I hit the quote function.


Kylo is younger thus more susceptible due to being more immature and with less experiences. Those temper tantrums didn't change his focus or his goals so again you're crying over something very, very, very small in the big picture. You hate Kylo I get it. I don't. I expect huge things from the character in the future. He's my boy's apprentice after all.

Kurk

quanchi112
Ben did what he had to do. Snoke has that much of a grip on him. Palpatine utterly failed to do what Snoke has done to Ben. It's quite amazing and I get to shit all over Palpatine as well. Ben acknowledged how difficult it was but still overcame the pull of the light. Anakin failed to acknowledge the pull of the light but failed anyways despite more experience in the dark side.


Anakin got on his knees after he helped kill Windu with, "What have I done ?" On his knees he went like a broken man bent to another man's service because of his fear ridden actions in the span of a few moments. He was weak then and weak up in rotj. In both trilogy finales he betrayed whatever side he started out on.


Kylo is younger and inexperienced so expect immaturity to come with it. When he completes his training I expect him to be a more controlled and outright monster. Look at the growth in Anakin from AOTC to Rots.

Kurk
Originally posted by quanchi112
Ben did what he had to do. Snoke has that much of a grip on him. Palpatine utterly failed to do what Snoke has done to Ben. It's quite amazing and I get to shit all over Palpatine as well. Ben acknowledged how difficult it was but still overcame the pull of the light. Anakin failed to acknowledge the pull of the light but failed anyways despite more experience in the dark side.


Anakin got on his knees after he helped kill Windu with, "What have I done ?" On his knees he went like a broken man bent to another man's service because of his fear ridden actions in the span of a few moments. He was weak then and weak up in rotj. In both trilogy finales he betrayed whatever side he started out on.


Kylo is younger and inexperienced so expect immaturity to come with it. When he completes his training I expect him to be a more controlled and outright monster. Look at the growth in Anakin from AOTC to Rots. What do you mean Palpatine failed to do what Snoke did to Ben? He tooled Maul, Dooku, and Vader just like how Snoke holds Kylo's leash. "Anakin failed to acknowledge the pull of the light but failed anyways despite more experience in the dark-side". When did a young Vader do anything like this?

Let's just settle for both Anakin and Kylo are emotionally weak.

Yeah if Kylo matures into someone like his master I'll be impressed. In the meantime, he's an immature child like Anakin. Lol what growth between AotC and RotS?

quanchi112
Originally posted by Kurk
What do you mean Palpatine failed to do what Snoke did to Ben? He tooled Maul, Dooku, and Vader just like how Snoke holds Kylo's leash. "Anakin failed to acknowledge the pull of the light but failed anyways despite more experience in the dark-side". When did a young Vader do anything like this?

Let's just settle for both Anakin and Kylo are emotionally weak.

Yeah if Kylo matures into someone like his master I'll be impressed. In the meantime, he's an immature child like Anakin. Lol what growth between AotC and RotS? Palpatine didn't want to lose Maul. Dooku was left in place of Vader. Vader betrayed him and ultimately wasn't under his control which resulted in his death. Young Vader didn't face the same circumstances when a family member. When he was older and with more experience he couldn't even hack what according to you an immature Ben Solo was able to deal with. laughing out loud


Kylo isn't emotionally weak. Anakin was. He was a traitor. No, Kylo isn't since he made the right call. He did what Snoke wanted and killed his weak old man, Han Solo. I'll be disappointed if Kylo jumps ship in a future film but I don't believe he will. As of now what he did was glorious.

Kurk
Originally posted by quanchi112
Palpatine didn't want to lose Maul. Dooku was left in place of Vader. Vader betrayed him and ultimately wasn't under his control which resulted in his death. Young Vader didn't face the same circumstances when a family member. When he was older and with more experience he couldn't even hack what according to you an immature Ben Solo was able to deal with. laughing out loud


Kylo isn't emotionally weak. Anakin was. He was a traitor. No, Kylo isn't since he made the right call. He did what Snoke wanted and killed his weak old man, Han Solo. I'll be disappointed if Kylo jumps ship in a future film but I don't believe he will. As of now what he did was glorious.
There is no proof that Sidious wanted to keep Maul for the long-term.

I'm only focusing on RotS Vader young Vader here in order to compare him with Kylo. When Kylo reaches the same age as RotJ we'll talk. Until then, there is nothing to indicate that Kylo was less emotionally conflicted than early Vader.

Emotional weakness has nothing to do with someone being a traitor.
Emotionally weak - Get carried away by small problems.
Emotionally strong - Able to face any worst situation and remain calm at that situation.

Both Kylo and Anakin are emotionally weak. Kylo couldn't keep himself calm after Rey got loose, or when they temporarily lost BB8. That's, like you say, nothing in the grand scheme of things related to the New Order.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Kurk
There is no proof that Sidious wanted to keep Maul for the long-term.

I'm only focusing on RotS Vader young Vader here in order to compare him with Kylo. When Kylo reaches the same age as RotJ we'll talk. Until then, there is nothing to indicate that Kylo was less emotionally conflicted than early Vader.

Emotional weakness has nothing to do with someone being a traitor.
Emotionally weak - Get carried away by small problems.
Emotionally strong - Able to face any worst situation and remain calm at that situation.

Both Kylo and Anakin are emotionally weak. Kylo couldn't keep himself calm after Rey got loose, or when they temporarily lost BB8. That's, like you say, nothing in the grand scheme of things related to the New Order. He didn't intend on losing him in APM.

Rots Vader was emotionally conflicted and didn't want to turn to the dark side but after he reacted he felt he had no choice.

Yes, it does because if you have an emotional weakness you can flip easier than someone who is emotionally strong. He was falling to pieces just by the thought of losing Padme. Weak as ****.

Kylo isn't emotionally weak as he identified his problems and worked through them. That's how you address anything occurring. He dealt with it no matter how difficult it was. He had rage issues but he dealt with it just fine. He stayed on the task. You're overreacting because he trashed a few rooms. Who cares you drama queen.

Pa. Rots Vader trashed a room when he found out his whore wife was dead. Oh the irony.

Kurk
Originally posted by quanchi112
He didn't intend on losing him in APM.

Rots Vader was emotionally conflicted and didn't want to turn to the dark side but after he reacted he felt he had no choice.

Yes, it does because if you have an emotional weakness you can flip easier than someone who is emotionally strong. He was falling to pieces just by the thought of losing Padme. Weak as ****.

Kylo isn't emotionally weak as he identified his problems and worked through them. That's how you address anything occurring. He dealt with it no matter how difficult it was. He had rage issues but he dealt with it just fine. He stayed on the task. You're overreacting because he trashed a few rooms. Who cares you drama queen.

Pa. Rots Vader trashed a room when he found out his whore wife was dead. Oh the irony.
Okay

This does nothing to suggest that Kylo was more emotionally sound in TFA

A very rational person can flip sides too. That's exactly what Dooku did. Correlation does not equal causation.

Kylo admitted that he was being used by Snoke and it required a great amount of will-power to kill Solo. At the end he was clearly out of it. Yes it worked through his problems, but not easily. I'm not concerned with him trashing a few rooms, I'm concerned with his lack of ability to take information calmly, process it, and come up with a rational solution. Instead he destroys equipment while screaming like a child who lost a Call of Duty match. He then strangles his messenger for the failure of another group of soldiers. Even Vader didn't do that.

P.S I already mentioned Vader's RotS rampage earlier. Do you have dementia?

quanchi112
Originally posted by Kurk
Okay

This does nothing to suggest that Kylo was more emotionally sound in TFA

A very rational person can flip sides too. That's exactly what Dooku did. Correlation does not equal causation.

Kylo admitted that he was being used by Snoke and it required a great amount of will-power to kill Solo. At the end he was clearly out of it. Yes it worked through his problems, but not easily. I'm not concerned with him trashing a few rooms, I'm concerned with his lack of ability to take information calmly, process it, and come up with a rational solution. Instead he destroys equipment while screaming like a child who lost a Call of Duty match. He then strangles his messenger for the failure of another group of soldiers. Even Vader didn't do that.

P.S I already mentioned Vader's RotS rampage earlier. Do you have dementia? Yes, it does since Anakin sacrificed his ideals over fear of loss. He was as unstable as it gets the entire film. He was so lost he attacked the woman he went to the dark side for. If you can't see that you're kind of an idiot.

So you believe Anakin was rational in rots ? laughing out loud

Dooku wasn't a mess emotionally like Anakin was. We are comparing the two you dolt.

He was a part of the first order and remained within the first order for Snoke. So what ? He still went about achieving his mission so again you're being dramatic while ignoring Vader doing the same when he's upset.

If I have dementia you have Down's syndrome.

Which is worse ?

Happy Dance

Kurk
Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, it does since Anakin sacrificed his ideals over fear of loss. He was as unstable as it gets the entire film. He was so lost he attacked the woman he went to the dark side for. If you can't see that you're kind of an idiot.

So you believe Anakin was rational in rots ? laughing out loud

Dooku wasn't a mess emotionally like Anakin was. We are comparing the two you dolt.

He was a part of the first order and remained within the first order for Snoke. So what ? He still went about achieving his mission so again you're being dramatic while ignoring Vader doing the same when he's upset.

If I have dementia you have Down's syndrome.

Which is worse ?

Happy Dance
I'm not debating whether or not Anakin was emotionally unstable; he was. We're comparing him to Kylo to determine whether or not Ren is also emotionally unstable. You seem to keep getting off track.

That's not what I said. You were making it sound like only irrational people change sides when that's not the case. I used Dooku as a counter-example. He too was tempted by the light-side in Dark Rendezvous, yet he wasn't an emotional reck like Kylo or Anakin.

We're comparing the two to determine (in my case) that Kylo, like Anakin, was emotionally immature.

What do you mean so what? It proves my point that Kylo is emotionally immature.

That was pretty funny tbh. If I have an extra chromosome, you're missing one.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Kurk
I'm not debating whether or not Anakin was emotionally unstable; he was. We're comparing him to Kylo to determine whether or not Ren is also emotionally unstable. You seem to keep getting off track.

That's not what I said. You were making it sound like only irrational people change sides when that's not the case. I used Dooku as a counter-example. He too was tempted by the light-side in Dark Rendezvous, yet he wasn't an emotional reck like Kylo or Anakin.

We're comparing the two to determine (in my case) that Kylo, like Anakin, was emotionally immature.

What do you mean so what? It proves my point that Kylo is emotionally immature.

That was pretty funny tbh. If I have an extra chromosome, you're missing one. Ren wasn't since he kept his focus and stayed loyal to the first order. You seem to not get the fact Kylo was fine.

You are trying to look to other characters when this is an Anakin and Ben comparison only. You wanted to compare rots Vader to Kylo and it's still worse for Vader.

I said Kylo was immature because of his age and his inexperience. Do you have dementia ?

Kylo stayed true to his convictions while Anakin turned into a broken cripple known as Vader who also lost his wife.

#vadertrainwreckconfirmed

Kurk
Originally posted by quanchi112
Ren wasn't since he kept his focus and stayed loyal to the first order. You seem to not get the fact Kylo was fine.

You are trying to look to other characters when this is an Anakin and Ben comparison only. You wanted to compare rots Vader to Kylo and it's still worse for Vader.

I said Kylo was immature because of his age and his inexperience. Do you have dementia ?

Kylo stayed true to his convictions while Anakin turned into a broken cripple known as Vader who also lost his wife.

#vadertrainwreckconfirmed
You are saying that because he didn't quit the order he's emotionally stable. There is literally no correlation between those two things. I've already said that his meaningless rampages are enough of an indication to prove that he's emotionally immature.

I was rebutting your claim with an outside source.

I don't give a shit if Ren is 20 or 60; the point is that he's emotionally immature. You're looking for excuses now. His young age only suggests that there is room for him to change this in the future which we don't know.

Vader at least got some nice ass & t1ts within his lifetime. Kylo probably uses Vader's helmet as a fleshlight as he jerks off to nudes of Captain Phasma.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Kurk
You are saying that because he didn't quit the order he's emotionally stable. There is literally no correlation between those two things. I've already said that his meaningless rampages are enough of an indication to prove that he's emotionally immature.

I was rebutting your claim with an outside source.

I don't give a shit if Ren is 20 or 60; the point is that he's emotionally immature. You're looking for excuses now. His young age only suggests that there is room for him to change this in the future which we don't know.

Vader at least got some nice ass & t1ts within his lifetime. Kylo probably uses Vader's helmet as a fleshlight as he jerks off to nudes of Captain Phasma. I am saying he went through his emotions in a much healthier way than Anakin. He also stayed true to his beliefs unlike Anakin. I agreed he's immature but his rampages are normal for someone of that age with that inexperience.


No, you didn't.

Age and experience matters with maturity you dolt. According to you age does t matter so let's judge someone eight years old to the same standards as someone 18. You can change at any age you idiot.

Vader lived decades as a cripple confined to a suit while he believed he caused his wife's death. Kylo is serving the first order and about to have his training completed. He earned it with Han's death. smile

Kurk
Originally posted by quanchi112
I am saying he went through his emotions in a much healthier way than Anakin. He also stayed true to his beliefs unlike Anakin. I agreed he's immature but his rampages are normal for someone of that age with that inexperience.


No, you didn't.

Age and experience matters with maturity you dolt. According to you age does t matter so let's judge someone eight years old to the same standards as someone 18. You can change at any age you idiot.

Vader lived decades as a cripple confined to a suit while he believed he caused his wife's death. Kylo is serving the first order and about to have his training completed. He earned it with Han's death. smile
1st point you've conceded is that Kylo is emotionally immature. We can check that off finally.

Age and experience does matter, but with that being said, Kylo is not an eight-year-old; he is an adult in charge of a large and powerful organization. Don't you think it would be appropriate if he acted like it?

Won't it be funny if Kylo meets the same fate as Dooku and gets executed like a cuck by Rey? He's admitted that he's a tool so I'm sure he wouldn't be surprised himself.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Kurk
1st point you've conceded is that Kylo is emotionally immature. We can check that off finally.

Age and experience does matter, but with that being said, Kylo is not an eight-year-old; he is an adult in charge of a large and powerful organization. Don't you think it would be appropriate if he acted like it?

Won't it be funny if Kylo meets the same fate as Dooku and gets executed like a cuck by Rey? He's admitted that he's a tool so I'm sure he wouldn't be surprised himself. I said he was but not to the extent you're clamoring for. You already conceded he's better off than Anakin.

So now age matters thus you concede the point. I think it was fine and the organization didn't lose anything significant over his temper. Nothing.

Now on the other end how about Vader just getting on his knees in a submissive position after he attacked his own wife. What an unstable and weak *******.

He'd object. Dooku just took it without an objection which makes him a cuck.

Kurk
Originally posted by quanchi112
I said he was but not to the extent you're clamoring for. You already conceded he's better off than Anakin.

So now age matters thus you concede the point. I think it was fine and the organization didn't lose anything significant over his temper. Nothing.

Now on the other end how about Vader just getting on his knees in a submissive position after he attacked his own wife. What an unstable and weak *******.

He'd object. Dooku just took it without an objection which makes him a cuck.
1. If he's better by Anakin, it's marginal. Both had fears; Kylo was afraid he wouldn't become as powerful as Vader, Anakin that he would lose Padme. Anakin was manipulated by Palpatine, Kylo is being manipulated by Snoke.

2. I never said age isn't a factor in this. I just don't use it as an excuse like you.

3. He got on his knees after choking Padme?

4. We don't know what he'd do. That's speculation.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by Kurk


3. He got on his knees after choking Padme?


He's confusing scenes because he's never seen the whole movie.

He's a SW Hater just pretending to be a fan to put the franchise and its main characters down.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Kurk
1. If he's better by Anakin, it's marginal. Both had fears; Kylo was afraid he wouldn't become as powerful as Vader, Anakin that he would lose Padme. Anakin was manipulated by Palpatine, Kylo is being manipulated by Snoke.

2. I never said age isn't a factor in this. I just don't use it as an excuse like you.

3. He got on his knees after choking Padme?

4. We don't know what he'd do. That's speculation.

1. Most have fears that is irrelevant. Kylomis task related Vader is I can't lose her I need her co dependent. Anakin killed Palpatine in weakness has Ben turned on Snoke in weakness yet ?

2. So you concede the point.

3. No, even better for my position. Through anger he immaturely attacked her the one reason he did this for. Shows how short sighted and emotionally immature Vader was even at an older age than Kylo.

4. You are right so you can't see anything either. We do know Dooku just allowed it.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Darth Thor
He's confusing scenes because he's never seen the whole movie.

He's a SW Hater just pretending to be a fan to put the franchise and its main characters down. You talk big once again and troll ironically while crying about me. Accept and shut me up, troll. A judged debate. You've talked shit about the Kelvin timeline as inferior so accept the challenge. Be a man. If not continue to be a ***** who runs from me when I raise the stakes.

Originally posted by quanchi112
They did temp down and humiliate Vader. Tano's interference and skill level saved Kanan's life. Vader wasn't man enough to defeat Tano on his own so of course Kanan survived the encounter with her help.

You accepted one battlezone and the day of walked away from Vader against Khan. You'll never live it down because you accepted and pussed put the day of.


I'll make you a challenge though. Loser doesn't post in the Star Wars section for three months after judgment is given.

Kelvin era vs. Ot era. All good and bad guys aligned and we only debate 3 vs 3 films. Only ships and soldiers seen or referenced by numbers.

Do you accept ?

Loser leaves the Star Wars section for three months.

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