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The latest verdict on the Yoda vs Sids duel in RotS from the soon to be released Star Wars: Galactic Atlas appears to be that the contest ended in stalemate:However, this contradicts the rulings of other Canon sources; namely Ultimate Star Wars and the SW.com Databanko which source is correct? Can this seeming contradiction be reconciled? Vote in the poll and post your reasoning below.

They are all merely interpretations of things that happen on-screen, I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few more quotes bandied around the stratosphere calling a stalemate, but yes, Yoda did ultimately loose but it might not have been because he was any weaker in the Force.

Forget trying to reconcile sources. Go by the film: They fought to a standstill but Palpatine was the victor due to the circumstances.

But if you really must reconcile: Yoda was "outmatched," because he needed to kill Palpatine but couldn't do it. They were both "overhwelmed" by the final blast. And obviously Palpatine was the "victor" given he survived and carried on ruling his Empire, whereas Yoda had to flee into hiding.

Outmatched has a clear dictionary definition: to be superior. And if Sids is the one overwhelming Yoda, it hardly works both ways. So I don't feel as if that reading really works.

On the other hand, the word standstill is a lot less weighty in these contexts:

http://i.imgur.com/N1m8yBO.png

It's true, at the end of the fight neither party sort to continue, the action of the fight ceased. However that doesn't necessarily mean it was a stalemate.

Christ, even when you're simply quoting definitions you're annoying.

Lmao.

Oh so now dictionary definitions matter, lol.

Dry those tears.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
It's true, at the end of the fight neither party sort to continue, the action of the fight ceased. However that doesn't necessarily mean it was a stalemate.

You mean exactly like every fight that ever happened and will happen?

It was a stalemate; that's the best option we have since there exist both sources that portray Yoda favourably and sources that portray Sheev favourably.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
You mean exactly like every fight that ever happened and will happen? Some fights end with people dying actually.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Some fights end with people dying actually.

And when one of them dies, the other stops fighting, hence stalemate

Nah. It's the difference between a fight that ends conclusively and a fight that is interrupted/left unfinished. Sidious could still outmatch Yoda but have the fight end in standstill given he did not press his advantage, or rather wasn't in a position to, and neither was Yoda prepared to continue fighting. So the contest was abandoned.

But the fact they fought to a standstill doesn't necessarily mean they were equals.Originally posted by MythLord
It was a stalemate; that's the best option we have since there exist both sources that portray Yoda favourably and sources that portray Sheev favourably. Actually we have one source that portrays Sheev favourably, and one source that favours neither.

You people really are vaginas about this sort of thing. You want others to tell you how to think. This is really a sad day for most of you here in this topic.

If they had a rematch on flat terrain, Yoda would win sabers everytime, and Sidious would win Force everytime. The movie was circumstantial.

Originally posted by Azronger
If they had a rematch on flat terrain, Yoda would win sabers everytime, and Sidious would win Force everytime. The movie was circumstantial. Your opinion is speculative. Nothing more.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Christ, even when you're simply quoting definitions you're cute af

Yoda lost.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Yoda lost.

Yoda was the more powerful, but got unlucky.

Yoda is a known failure while Sidious is a known coward. Pure fail meeting pure chicken shit.

lol

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Outmatched has a clear dictionary definition: to be superior. And if Sids is the one overwhelming Yoda, it hardly works both ways. So I don't feel as if that reading really works.




Yeah but what did Sidious outmatch/overhwelm Yoda in?

Wasn't Sabers going by the evidence. Many people say the Force, but the Force explosion sent them both back, much like the Anakin/Obi-Wan force push.

Was Yoda outmatched in Stamina? Possibly, but if that was really the case why was Sidious hanging off a pod, and not pursuing Yoda.

The only thing Sidious seemed to have Yoda outmatched in was Positioning. Yoda took the worse fall after the Force explosion due to that, but again, why didn't Sidious pursue Yoda?

So all these statements of Sidious pushing Yoda's shit really aren't backed up by anything except the fact that Sidious came out on top due to having the major advantage of just needing to survive this assassination attempt to continue his rule.

This statement of fighting to a standstill but that being enough for a Palpatine victory however, is backed by the onscreen evidence.

Both are confirmed to be pathetic in different ways. Sad thing is these guys used to be at the top of the mountain until the new films arrived. Thank heavens.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Forget trying to reconcile sources. Go by the film: They fought to a standstill but Palpatine was the victor due to the circumstances.

But if you really must reconcile: Yoda was "outmatched," because he needed to kill Palpatine but couldn't do it. They were both "overhwelmed" by the final blast. And obviously Palpatine was the "victor" given he survived and carried on ruling his Empire, whereas Yoda had to flee into hiding.

This. Palpatine had the highr ground, since Yoda was forced to chase him all the time. Palpatine tried to run after he got Force pushed by Yoda. And in the last sequence, It seems that Yoda had very small edge.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
The only thing Sidious seemed to have Yoda outmatched in was Positioning.
Yoda had to chase him, as he tried to escape before. Sidious was focusing himself on finding any possible advantage, while Yoda couln't to the same.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yeah but what did Sidious outmatch/overhwelm Yoda in?

Wasn't Sabers going by the evidence. Many people say the Force, but the Force explosion sent them both back, much like the Anakin/Obi-Wan force push.

Was Yoda outmatched in Stamina? Possibly, but if that was really the case why was Sidious hanging off a pod, and not pursuing Yoda.

The only thing Sidious seemed to have Yoda outmatched in was Positioning. Yoda took the worse fall after the Force explosion due to that, but again, why didn't Sidious pursue Yoda?

So all these statements of Sidious pushing Yoda's shit really aren't backed up by anything except the fact that Sidious came out on top due to having the major advantage of just needing to survive this assassination attempt to continue his rule.

This statement of fighting to a standstill but that being enough for a Palpatine victory however, is backed by the onscreen evidence. Outmatched in Force friend, lets not beat around the bush, the source material expressly states that his lightning overwhelmed him.

And Sidious 'won' because he didn't fall off the pod, whereas Yoda did and failed to break his fall, conceding the high ground and therefore the fight. The fact that Yoda was completely unable to break his fall only suggesting that he was utterly exhausted, and in no position to continue fighting. So one might arguably concede stamina to Palpatine as well.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Outmatched in Force friend, lets not beat around the bush, the source material expressly states that his lightning overwhelmed him.


Sources are contradictory on the result of the fight, which was the whole point of this thread right? But the actual film shows them both flying after the Force explosion.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
And Sidious 'won' because he didn't fall off the pod, whereas Yoda did and failed to break his fall, conceding the high ground and therefore the fight. The fact that Yoda was completely unable to break his fall only suggesting that he was utterly exhausted, and in no position to continue fighting. So one might arguably concede stamina to Palpatine as well.

Could that be because Yoda had nothing to grab hold of? (also shown in the film) IOW Yoda took the fall because he got unlucky.

Like I keep saying, it's not like Palpatine was pursuing Yoda. He was just left hanging himself, and later orders his troops to pursue Yoda.

Originally posted by McP
Yoda had to chase him, as he tried to escape before. Sidious was focusing himself on finding any possible advantage, while Yoda couln't to the same. Yep

They were in fact equal, but Sidious was the victor (which is why I voted "stalemate".

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Sources are contradictory on the result of the fight, which was the whole point of this thread right? But the actual film shows them both flying after the Force explosion.I don't think that necessarily the case, for reasons explained. And the fact that they both were blown away doesn't preclude Sidious overwhelming him.It's speculation that Sidious would have fared as worse, but Yoda was evidently pooped, not just unlucky.

Yoda also put himself in that position so it wasn't luck. Palpatine sought out the higher ground and had the stable position. D. Thor uses words like luck to excuse what he doesn't like about facts. He's hopeless.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I don't think that necessarily the case, for reasons explained. And the fact that they both were blown away doesn't preclude Sidious overwhelming him.


It's hardly an overwhelming when both are blown away.



Originally posted by Beniboybling
It's speculation that Sidious would have fared as worse, but Yoda was evidently pooped, not just unlucky.


Don't see how. Sidious had something to grab hold of. Yoda didn't.

You could argue Sidious having better positioning by choice. But that just means Sidious gained the tactical advantage, not that he was more powerful in the Force, or as a Saber duelist.


Again though, the fight didn't end with Sidious chasing Yoda, or Sidious pounding on Yoda, and Yoda running for his life to avoid more of a pounding.

Originally posted by Geistalt
They were in fact equal, but Sidious was the victor (which is why I voted "stalemate".

Why would Sidious chase Yoda ? He's a coward who tried to leave the fight the moment Yoda fought back. It isn't in character nor does it make any sense to risk it all against one Jedi. Try to make actual sense when trying to debate, D. Thor. This is bad even for the likes of you.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
It's hardly an overwhelming when both are blown away.It is in the respect that Yoda attempted to but failed to contain and deflect Sidious' lightning (which he was also unable to absorb) - Sheev was just hit by the rebound.
Because if he wasn't exhausted he would have 1. Broken his fall 2. Not lost his grip when he did grab hold of something. You realise Yoda should be able to do these things, yes?That doesn't conflate with Yoda being outmatched or overwhelmed tbh, especially when in both cases this is framed within the contexts of a contest of the Force.Yeah it ended in a "standstill", that doesn't mean Yoda wasn't outmatched. Arguably, that was one of the reasons he retreated. As the RotS describes it he "just didn't have it." Whereas Sidious didn't pursue because as you point out he didn't need to.

Lmao @ Quanchi criticizing Yoda and Palps for being a 'failure' and a 'coward'. Irony of that magnitude is just hilarious.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
It is in the respect that Yoda attempted to but failed to contain and deflect Sidious' lightning (which he was also unable to absorb) - Sheev was just hit by the rebound.


Huh? It rebounded onto him. Right after Yoda started to push Palpatine back mind you. I have no idea how anyone can see that as Palpatine overpowering Yoda.





Originally posted by Beniboybling
Because if he wasn't exhausted he would have 1. Broken his fall 2. Not lost his grip when he did grab hold of something. You realise Yoda should be able to do these things, yes?


And you realise under normal circumstances Sidious wouldn't just be hanging off a pole like a monkey right? Because he is capable of just leaping right back up into a fighting stance. Normally that is..


Originally posted by Beniboybling
That doesn't conflate with Yoda being outmatched or overwhelmed tbh, especially when in both cases this is framed within the contexts of a contest of the Force.Yeah it ended in a "standstill", that doesn't mean Yoda wasn't outmatched. Arguably, that was one of the reasons he retreated. As the RotS describes it he "just didn't have it." Whereas Sidious didn't pursue because as you point out he didn't need to.


You seem dead set on believing this statement that Yoda was overwhelmed by Palpatine's powers.

The top 10 ihgtsaber battles on SW.COM says Yoda absorbed all the Lightning Palpatine threw at him. There's different interpretations on ow the fight went, but end result was, neither of them were badly injured, but neither of them wanted to carry on either.

Sidious might not have "needed" to pursue Yoda, but he certainly wanted to. Hence he ordered his troops to find him. Yoda was like the biggest threat out there to Palpatine. If Palpatine really pushed Yoda's shit in as you're claiming, then of course he would have pursued him.

Because like you pointed out, under normal circumstances, either Yoda or Palpatine, could jump down to the bottom of that chamber, and pursue in no time.

Originally posted by Petrus
Lmao @ Quanchi criticizing Yoda and Palps for being a 'failure' and a 'coward'. Irony of that magnitude is just hilarious. Lol at you being upset over the top Sith and too Jedi both being poster children for these qualities. Blame George Lucas you sycophant.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Lol at you being upset over the top Sith and too Jedi both being poster children for these qualities. Blame George Lucas you sycophant.

I don't give a shit, tbh, it's just extremely ironic you think these two are a 'failure' and 'coward' when Maul cleeearly fits in both categories.

Your insults, tho. They continue to be on point.

Palpatine wanted him dead but he didn't want to risk his own life in order to do so hence why he ordered others to do so. Palpatine is a coward if you've forgotten. Yoda failed just like he failed to stop the clone wars with Dooku.

Originally posted by Petrus
I don't give a shit, tbh, it's just extremely ironic you think these two are a 'failure' and 'coward' when Maul cleeearly fits in both categories.

Your insults, tho. They continue to be on point. Maul isn't as powerful as either. He also didn't have the backing of a Jedi order or a galactic empire. If you believe Maul is the same as Yoda or Sidious you're clearly experimenting with drug use.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Palpatine wanted him dead but he didn't want to risk his own life in order to do so hence why he ordered others to do so. Palpatine is a coward if you've forgotten. Yoda failed just like he failed to stop the clone wars with Dooku.



Yes, Palpatine is a coward. Just like Maul, dude...

And sure, Yoda failed. I agree, actually. But Maul failed, too. He failed as a Sith, he failed in his comeback, he failed in life.

It's even more ironic when his other favourite Kylo Ren cries to Vader.

Both his favourites have admitted their inferiority to Vader. He should be a man and accept it instead of crying like Kylo about it

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Huh? It rebounded onto him. Right after Yoda started to push Palpatine back mind you. I have no idea how anyone can see that as Palpatine overpowering Yoda.The energy Yoda was containing exploded midway, and both combatants were sent flying. And the source material demands we reassess our first impressions.The point I was making that Yoda's fall was not just bad luck, it was rather his inability to recover from it.Because its stated as much in the SW Databank, and reinforced by the Ultimate Star Wars which takes precedent over a personal opinion, mine or otherwise.It says he "absorbed Sidious' dark side powers" - which I suppose can be considered true since they didn't barrel right through him, clearly he diminished it to some extent. But its flat out false that he absorbed his lightning completely, that doesn't happen on screen.I never claimed Palpatine was "pushing Yoda's shit in" merely that he was "outmatched" by his Force powers as the source material states. That means, be better than, not widely better than, or much better than at all.

And again, yes, that's why it was a standstill, but for the last time that doesn't mean Sidious didn't outmatch him. He can still do so yet lack the strength, confidence and composure to finish his opponent off - who was for all intents and purposes, beaten.I never denied Sidious being at full strength, or not seriously exhausted himself, doesn't preclude him being better.

Originally posted by Petrus
Yes, Palpatine is a coward. Just like Maul, dude...

And sure, Yoda failed. I agree, actually. But Maul failed, too. He failed as a Sith, he failed in his comeback, he failed in life. Who has Maul backed down to ?

Maul hasn't been killed yet. He achieved goals along the way and hasn't been destroyed by the empire to date. That's pretty amazing since he's been alone for decades.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
It's even more ironic when his other favourite Kylo Ren cries to Vader.

Both his favourites have admitted their inferiority to Vader. He should be a man and accept it instead of crying like Kylo about it Kylo unlike Vader acknowledged the light inside him. Vader was delusional about it until,it consumed him and he left the Sith. Kylo already eclipsed him in evil. I also like the chip Kylo,puts on his shoulder. That will lead him to greatness.

Tano wrecked Vader with her light saber. She was unsuccessful against physically injuring Maul on her own.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Who has Maul backed down to ?

Maul hasn't been killed yet. He achieved goals along the way and hasn't been destroyed by the empire to date. That's pretty amazing since he's been alone for decades.

What goals did he achieve? He was Sidious' apprentice and screwed up. He gained power and influence alongside Savage, then Savage got killed and Maul captured, tortured and ripped of all he'd built. Since then, he's spent his life in solitude and has accomplished nothing. He's a failure.

Originally posted by Petrus
What goals did he achieve? He was Sidious' apprentice and screwed up. He gained power and influence alongside Savage, then Savage got killed and Maul captured, tortured and ripped of all he'd built. Since then, he's spent his life in solitude and has accomplished nothing. He's a failure. He gained power and influence along with overthrowing Pre Vizsla. He has no more allies. He helped acquire the Sith holocron. He is also twisting Ezra to the dark side. He's quite successful on his own. In the end I can dismiss Palpatine to dying in Rotj. You're ignoring Maul's accomplishments. He also took revenge in Kenobi by killing his ex. He's great.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He gained power and influence along with overthrowing Pre Vizsla. He has no more allies. He helped acquire the Sith holocron. He is also twisting Ezra to the dark side. He's quite successful on his own. In the end I can dismiss Palpatine to dying in Rotj. You're ignoring Maul's accomplishments. He also took revenge in Kenobi by killing his ex. He's great.

He 'achieves' things halfway and then gets ****ed. Always.

Originally posted by Petrus
He 'achieves' things halfway and then gets ****ed. Always. He got revenge on Kenobi. Period. He overthrew Vizlsa. Period. He killed Qui. He survived. The inquisitors are all dead. He is one of the most successful characters in Star Wars. Let's compare his exploits to Yoda.

Ps. He is still alive.

on neutral ground Sidious would win both sabers and force; Sidious was in an enclosed cramped space when dulling Yoda so advantage went to Yoda based on terrain. Had Sidious room to maneuver he'd have been a much better match and possibly overwhelmed Yoda in lightsaber combat. We already saw Palpatines might in TK; he was utilizing those heavy senate pods much easier than Yoda.

Originally posted by relentless1
on neutral ground Sidious would win both sabers and force; Sidious was in an enclosed cramped space when dulling Yoda so advantage went to Yoda based on terrain. Had Sidious room to maneuver he'd have been a much better match and possibly overwhelmed Yoda in lightsaber combat. We already saw Palpatines might in TK; he was utilizing those heavy senate pods much easier than Yoda. No, he wasn't. Yoda stopped one with momentum which is harder than to move a stationary object.

we saw it all through the prequels that yoda wasn't nearly as casual about TK as the Emperor was, he also seemed to strain when holding that huge pillar from falling on Anakin and Obi Wan in ep 2

Originally posted by relentless1
we saw it all through the prequels that yoda wasn't nearly as casual about TK as the Emperor was, he also seemed to strain when holding that huge pillar from falling on Anakin and Obi Wan in ep 2 Yoda seemed to strain when he walked. Who cares ? When push came to shove he stopped a pod flung at him. Period.

people that pay attention to detail care

Originally posted by relentless1
people that pay attention to detail care Stopping a moving object takes more force than to move a stationary object. That's undeniable so how's you miss that glaringly obvious fact.

I think it's pretty clear from watching their duel that it was a stalemate. Yoda just lost because he was forced to retreat whereas Sidious went on to rule the galaxy.

Originally posted by Rebel95
I think it's pretty clear from watching their duel that it was a stalemate. Yoda just lost because he was forced to retreat whereas Sidious went on to rule the galaxy. Yoda lost the higher ground and he left. That's a loss. Yoda is a huge failure.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yoda lost the higher ground and he left. That's a loss. Yoda is a huge failure.
Uh yeah, that's what I just said

Originally posted by Rebel95
Uh yeah, that's what I just said Yoda wasn't forced to retreat. He chose to do so.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yoda wasn't forced to retreat. He chose to do so.
Yeah, obviously he chose to do so. That's what I meant by saying he was forced to retreat. I'm not really sure what your point is

Originally posted by Rebel95
Yeah, obviously he chose to do so. That's what I meant by saying he was forced to retreat. I'm not really sure what your point is Yoda lost because he chose to leave. He was not forced to do so. He believed he lost when he fell from the pod and due to the limited time he had left and the higher position Palpatine had he chose to concede the fight.

Yeah I agree. He knew he couldn''t kill Sidious so he fled. But they fought to a standstill.

Originally posted by Rebel95
Yeah I agree. He knew he couldn''t kill Sidious so he fled. But they fought to a standstill.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Didnt you claim Tano was beaten by Vader despite her continuing pursuit of Vader thus making you a hypocrite here once again. Bfr only matters for guys D. Thor likes. The hypocrite lives.