RotJ Luke (rage mode) vs. RotS Anakin

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The Ellimist
Sabers only.

Tondemonai
Glad I gave you an idea for a thread smile

Unsure atm, I'm tempted to say Luke, but it can be argued that Vader was holding back even when Luke went beast on him is ROTJ

GM Yoda
Anakin.

Geistalt

Dark-Kenshin
Vader was weaker and confused during his battle with Luke (not fully in tuned with the dark side). Ironically, the issue he had during his battle with Obiwan. Regardless of whether he was intentionally holding back, he wasn't at peak performance as we see him when dispatching the likes of Ahsoka, Kanan or Ezra. As such, I give this battle to ROTS Anakin provided it's the Anakin who beat Dooku.

Azronger

UCanShootMyNova
Luke easily.

Dark-Kenshin
Which was the case when that novel was written, but now we got stuff like Anakin seeing Sidious' frenzy against Mace, not to mention Anakin's own frenzy against Dooku, so I dunno.

Geistalt
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Which was the case when that novel was written, but now we got stuff like Anakin seeing Sidious' frenzy against Mace, not to mention Anakin's own frenzy against Dooku, so I dunno. Pretty sure that by "known," they mean "experienced."

Azronger
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Which was the case when that novel was written, but now we got stuff like Anakin seeing Sidious' frenzy against Mace, not to mention Anakin's own frenzy against Dooku, so I dunno.

Continuity doesn't work that way.

Trocity
Anakin.

The Ellimist
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Which was the case when that novel was written, but now we got stuff like Anakin seeing Sidious' frenzy against Mace, not to mention Anakin's own frenzy against Dooku, so I dunno.

Yeah, also Vader likes to pretend he isn't Anakin.

Geistalt
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Which was the case when that novel was written, but now we got stuff like Anakin seeing Sidious' frenzy against Mace, not to mention Anakin's own frenzy against Dooku, so I dunno. There are other quotes from the RotJ novel that vindicate Luke's triumph over his father.

"Lord Vader did not mind waiting, though, nor was even aware of it. For it was an honor, and a noble activity, to kneel at his ruler's feet. He kept his eyes inward, seeking reflection in his own bottomless core. His power was great, now, greater than it had ever been. It shimmered from within, and resonated with the waves of darkness that flowed from the Emperor.
He felt engorged with this power, it surged like black fire, demon electrons looking for ground... But he would wait. For his Emperor was not ready; and his son was not ready, and the time was not yet. So he waited." - Return of the Jedi

Darth Thor
According to Lucas, Luke is not a match for Vader as of ROTJ:

"In coming back to see Yoda we have to figure out Luke's training and the fact that he never finished his training and obviously now he's got a big question he wants answered. There is a point where the hero has to be left on his own 2 feet without anyone there to help him. And you can sort of have him be in a different place for something, but at some point you have to say now all the props have been taken away and he has to face the evil monster alone. In this case the scene established that the evil monster is actually his Father, and he's going to have to do it on his own, and that he's not really equipped to do it. He was too impatient, he didn't finish his studies, and now he's going to be HALF Trained to face a difficult physical and emotional challenge.

George Lucas, Return of the Jedi Audio Commentary.

quanchi112
laughing out loud

The Ellimist
Originally posted by Darth Thor
According to Lucas, Luke is not a match for Vader as of ROTJ:

"In coming back to see Yoda we have to figure out Luke's training and the fact that he never finished his training and obviously now he's got a big question he wants answered. There is a point where the hero has to be left on his own 2 feet without anyone there to help him. And you can sort of have him be in a different place for something, but at some point you have to say now all the props have been taken away and he has to face the evil monster alone. In this case the scene established that the evil monster is actually his Father, and he's going to have to do it on his own, and that he's not really equipped to do it. He was too impatient, he didn't finish his studies, and now he's going to be HALF Trained to face a difficult physical and emotional challenge.

George Lucas, Return of the Jedi Audio Commentary.

He refers to "physical and emotional" challenges. It's not necessarily that he can't face him with a blade.

Also, Vader could probably crush him in telekinesis.

Geistalt
Originally posted by Darth Thor
According to Lucas, Luke is not a match for Vader as of ROTJ:

"In this case the scene established that the evil monster is actually his Father, and he's going to have to do it on his own, and that he's not really equipped to do it. He was too impatient, he didn't finish his studies, and now he's going to be HALF Trained to face a difficult physical and emotional challenge. In that case, Luke's sheer Force strength is even more impressive, since he was ill-equipped and only half-trained and still bested his father (decisively).

quanchi112
So a half trained Luke crushed a fully trained Vader with years of experience. Another piece of evidence which shines the light on another Vader embarrassment.

Azronger
Originally posted by Darth Thor
According to Lucas, Luke is not a match for Vader as of ROTJ:

"In coming back to see Yoda we have to figure out Luke's training and the fact that he never finished his training and obviously now he's got a big question he wants answered. There is a point where the hero has to be left on his own 2 feet without anyone there to help him. And you can sort of have him be in a different place for something, but at some point you have to say now all the props have been taken away and he has to face the evil monster alone. In this case the scene established that the evil monster is actually his Father, and he's going to have to do it on his own, and that he's not really equipped to do it. He was too impatient, he didn't finish his studies, and now he's going to be HALF Trained to face a difficult physical and emotional challenge.

George Lucas, Return of the Jedi Audio Commentary.

Lucas lives in his own world, said so himself.

quanchi112
D. Thor would follow Lucas off a cliff. He's fanatical.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by The Ellimist
He refers to "physical and emotional" challenges. It's not necessarily that he can't face him with a blade.

Also, Vader could probably crush him in telekinesis.


Physical challenge would obviously include a Saber fight.

If he's holding back in telekinesis, then he's clearly not going all out on Luke, which is bound to reflect in the Saber fight as well.



Originally posted by Geistalt
In that case, Luke's sheer Force strength is even more impressive, since he was ill-equipped and only half-trained and still bested his father (decisively).



"he's not really equipped to do it"

quanchi112
Here comes the excuses as to why Vader was decimated handily. D. Thor and his Vader bias once again.

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