The New Jedi Order vs. Kaan's Brotherhood of Darkness

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The Ellimist
The NJO as of The Unifying Force vs. Kaan's sith that were on Ruusan.

Note that the NJO as of this time had ~ 100 Jedi. If there are no numbers on Kaan's sith assume it's 10,000 in total, but of course the majority are not really sith and more like weakling maruders/assassins/etc.

The battle takes place on a huge plain, they start 10 kilometers apart.

No rituals or heavy weaponry.

Emperordmb
Kaan's order is 20,000+ tbh

Either the Brotherhood wins or Luke is the only person left alive.

The Ellimist
Granted Luke, Jaina and Jacen alone soloed thousands of Vong warriors in TUF, and it's unclear if most of the Brotherhood's "sith" are tougher foes.

Emperordmb
The 20,000 is the figure on the Lords, so not counting the Acolytes, Assassins, or Marauders.

Fated Xtasy
no expression

The brotherhold gets stomped by the NJO.

If Leia is allowed to compete and she is allowed to use BM. The Brotherhood is going to be turned into a smear of blood

The Ellimist
Most of the lords were considered weaker than the trainees on Korriban who learned lightning a few weeks before Ruusan and had never used a real lightsaber in their lives.

UCanShootMyNova
How large is the NJO?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Most of the lords were considered weaker than the trainees on Korriban who learned lightning a few weeks before Ruusan and had never used a real lightsaber in their lives.

They had been training for decades...

Tondemonai
Oneness Luke solos smile

carthage
NJO stomps

Q99
I thought the NJO had ~600 at that point? Not super-huge, but still....


I think what it comes down to is the format. The NJO and BoD meet in an open battle, the plains format, raw numbers should tell, and I'll vote BoD. So many lesser sith will be directed at the Jedi that even with their superiority- and note, not every NJO Jedi is strong despite their better training- they'll win. There's still going to be a pretty good number of competent swordfighters and even forceusers with all that number, even if they're the minority. People *do* manage to self-teach up to respectable levels at times, especially with hands on experience, which exists in abundance in the New Sith Wars.

Even Luke gets tired, and he'd literally be fighting sith all day, possibly for several days.


Now, if it was a more complex war, with maneuvering and strategy coming into play, the NJO could almost certainly manage decapitation strikes and the Brotherhood will fall apart without Kaan and his council.

The Ellimist
Originally posted by Q99
I thought the NJO had ~600 at that point? Not super-huge, but still....


I think what it comes down to is the format. The NJO and BoD meet in an open battle, the plains format, raw numbers should tell, and I'll vote BoD. So many lesser sith will be directed at the Jedi that even with their superiority- and note, not every NJO Jedi is strong despite their better training- they'll win. There's still going to be a pretty good number of competent swordfighters and even forceusers with all that number, even if they're the minority. People *do* manage to self-teach up to respectable levels at times, especially with hands on experience, which exists in abundance in the New Sith Wars.

Even Luke gets tired, and he'd literally be fighting sith all day, possibly for several days.


Now, if it was a more complex war, with maneuvering and strategy coming into play, the NJO could almost certainly manage decapitation strikes and the Brotherhood will fall apart without Kaan and his council.

In an open battle the NJO will be facing around a 100:1 numerical disadvantage. There are some fringe instances of such a disparity being overcome in real life history, and in none of those cases were there ever the differences in combative ability you get with Force users of such disparate ability.

So it's possible, especially if Luke uses his illusions and other hacky sh*t.

Fated Xtasy
Tbh if Raskta and that mook Hoth are able to cut a swath among the Sith. Then a superior Battlemaster like Kyle and someone like Durron should have no problem wrecking house

SunRazer
NJO destroys. Streen and Kyp could probably wreck dozens upon dozens with their powers alone. Luke and some of the other warriors, supported by BM, should be one-shotting the Sith they come across, too. Seeing as how Maul's training exercises involve him performing about a million strikes, then yeah, the Jedi can definitely mow down the Sith.

Then there's the other BM-amped Jedi who are still stronger than your average Lord.

Nephthys
Kaan has BM too. Brotherhood destroys. 1000: 1 numbers are insurmountable.

Raptor22
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Granted Luke, Jaina and Jacen alone soloed thousands of Vong warriors in TUF, and it's unclear if most of the Brotherhood's "sith" are tougher foes. not sure where u got thousands from, but however many there were they were mostly in stairwells and tight hallways where luke was only facing a few at a time. Thats a far cry from being surronded by hundreds and fighting them all at once.

Emperordmb
If the NJO numbers one hundred, they're facing over a 200:1 disadvantage with only the Lords included, and a much worse number advantage if we're including the brotherhood's acolytes, assassins, and marauders.

Luke's really their only shot tbh, and the only thing making this a question.

SunRazer
Originally posted by Nephthys
Kaan has BM too. Brotherhood destroys. 1000: 1 numbers are insurmountable.

Kaan's BM was being overriden by a random Cerean Jedi Master.

Leia's BM, by DE alone, when she hardly even trained in the Force, was hurting ****ing Palpatine.

There's also Battle Meld, for what it's worth. Also, it's not 1000:1, it's 200: 1. Which isn't much when every one of your strikes is taking down a Sith (which it will be for any of the notable Jedi - the other Jedi are still well ahead of the Sith).

Also, were the 20000 BoD Sith including the trainees?

Fated Xtasy
thumb up

Not to mention you got army busters like Kyle and Jaden there alone... So?

Geistalt
The NJO eventually triumphs.

Q99
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Tbh if Raskta and that mook Hoth are able to cut a swath among the Sith. Then a superior Battlemaster like Kyle and someone like Durron should have no problem wrecking house

Raskta and Hoth got big body counts over *many* battles.


Odds like this? Hundreds to one.

This'd drag on for hours and they'd continually get slower, weaker, and their strikes less skillful- at the same time their opposition's level will actually be increasing as the stronger sith will of course hold back and only step in when they have an advantage.

One can't fight that many force users, one's arms will simply get tired. The lesser NJO members will falter first- simply to errors and being overwhelming, and the stronger ones will be worn down til their formidable strength is faded and then taken down.

Which'll increase the numbers sent against the stronger.



Generally only when the defeated is incompetent *and* environment or similar greatly favors them... and the Brotherhood of Darkness is not incompetent in battlefield tactics. Nor do they have bad morale.

You know the 300 Spartans? Set up in an awesome defensive position? What gets left out is they had over a thousand other soldiers as backup... and they still died to the last.

Fated Xtasy
Originally posted by Q99
Raskta and Hoth got big body counts over *many* battles.

And Kyle hasn't? He's soloed an entire Installation of Stormies and Reborn. Not to mention It was Kyle's efforts that allowed the Jedi to overcome the Empire Reborn on Yavin tbh.

Jaden as a fourteen year old fought through hordes on Taspir, and whiped em all out and then went on to fight on korriban and defeat countless more. Further more Jaden defeated lightsaber masters and Cultists with great Force Mastery as a freaking teen tbfh.





There is such a thing as Force Augmentation ya know, and they're fighting the best of NJO and their fodder




How? Firstly the Council alone could Solo given their feats. And secondly even lesser Jedi like say Zekk and Streen can do some tremendous damage if allowed to hang back. One was capable of creating large whirlwinds, while Zekk generated a ****ing force lightning storm with some weak students. The thought of what he could achieve with stronger people.



Well... I mean Kyle was regarded as the most level headed and calculated mind there, and of course they have Leia coordinating them.

NJO stomps with BM and Battle Meld tbh

carthage
Q's right they'll all get exhausted even though they can boost/empower each other through meld, will be amped by BM, on top of having an intimate familiarity with each other due to fighting in the Vong war/Lost tribe Sith invasion, on top of having arguably the most powerful Jedi in history who moves faster than fodder Sith who lost track of an immeasurably slower POD Bane in the force.

NJO obviously can't compete with elites like Sirak or Kas'im

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