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Good and evil does aligned against the opposing era. Who wins ?

OT.

Pt era wins.

lmao..PT era wins easily

Anakin, Yoda, Sidious, Dooku, Mace, Plo Koon, Ki Adi Mundi, Maul, Luminara, Ashoka, Greivous, Obi Wan, Qui Gon, Saesse Tuin, Agen Kolar

vs

Luke, Han, Leia, Chewie, Lando, Vader, Old Ben...

don't make me laugh

It has been my position the Ot era is the weakest of the Star Wars mythos.

The Empire is larger and has more tech than the PT era.

Originally posted by The Merchant
The Empire is larger and has more tech than the PT era. The droid army and the clone army was pretty impressive. The rebels weren't impressive and the empire was inept. Factor in all of the Jedi and it's a wrap.

Originally posted by The Merchant
The Empire is larger and has more tech than the PT era.

Larger doesn't mean better and what tech is impressive ? Ot fanboyism running wild apparently.

The Empire were able to build the Death Star 1 and 2. You could argue the CIS and the Republic might be able to build the first one since the CIS did have the schematics for it but definitely not 2. The 2nd one was built according to the opening crawl shortly before Luke was going to save Han Solo which means a lot.

The Empire could just use the Death Stars to conquer the Galaxy really, considering that we know in ANH the first one would have made the entire Galaxy buckle under their rule with no resistance.

Originally posted by The Merchant
The Empire were able to build the Death Star 1 and 2. You could argue the CIS and the Republic might be able to build the first one since the CIS did have the schematics for it but definitely not 2. The 2nd one was built according to the opening crawl shortly before Luke was going to save Han Solo which means a lot.

The Empire could just use the Death Stars to conquer the Galaxy really, considering that we know in ANH the first one would have made the entire Galaxy buckle under their rule with no resistance. If you don't think the droid army or the clone army could put up a stop to it but a ragtag group of rebels destroyed both then you're clearly out of your mind. For ****s sake.


http://herochat.com/index.php?topic=12699.0

Ot fanboyism is laughable.

The Droid army and the Clone army would not know how to fight the Death Stars and would most likely opt for a direct fleet attack, which in ANH is said to be ineffective after they read its schematics which the Republic would not know. The CIS would I guess know. To fight the DS you would need a small squad of fighters led by a Force Sensitive that has a potential of a Skywalker, so the OT would need to send Anakin to take down the first one. That's also assuming that the Empire would not employ a fleet of their own to protect the Death Star 1, they most certainly did with the 2nd one.

Originally posted by The Merchant
The Droid army and the Clone army would not know how to fight the Death Stars and would most likely opt for a direct fleet attack, which in ANH is said to be ineffective after they read its schematics which the Republic would not know. The CIS would I guess know. To fight the DS you would need a small squad of fighters led by a Force Sensitive that has a potential of a Skywalker, so the OT would need to send Anakin to take down the first one. That's also assuming that the Empire would not employ a fleet of their own to protect the Death Star 1, they most certainly did with the 2nd one. So hundreds of experienced Jedi along with Maul, Dooku, Windu, etc. would be worse off than an inexperienced and untrained Luke Skywalker.

How did it work out with protecting the Death Star 2 ? Did the empire stomp ? Did they lose ?

You're assuming all the Jedi and Sith are experts at fighter craft. Going by the films we only saw Maul, Dooku, Anakin, and Obi wan and Plo Koon in fighters and fighter like craft. The others going by EU material were mostly generals and what-not.

They lost because Palpatine wanted to lure the Rebel Alliance out with the knowledge that the 2nd one was incomplete and the Empire were actually winning. The ROTJ Novelization states the Empire lost because Palpatines death lead to a chain reaction of events that ultimately made the Rebels win.

Originally posted by The Merchant
You're assuming all the Jedi and Sith are experts at fighter craft. Going by the films we only saw Maul, Dooku, Anakin, and Obi wan and Plo Koon in fighters and fighter like craft. The others going by EU material were mostly generals and what-not.

They lost because Palpatine wanted to lure the Rebel Alliance out with the knowledge that the 2nd one was incomplete and the Empire were actually winning. The ROTJ Novelization states the Empire lost because Palpatines death lead to a chain reaction of events that ultimately made the Rebels win. Point is both were destroyed. You acting as if they are nigh unstoppable isn't supported by either portrayal since both Death Stars were destroyed.

The ones that were experts had more experience and force training than Luke did. Luke didn't go in with hundreds of ships either. Watch the beginning of rots and see the sheer amount of ships and what two experienced Jedi are capable of in their ships.

The droid army and the clone army were both more formidable than the laughable Stormtroopers of the empire. The only Stormtroopers worth a damn are from the First Order era.

Context is just as important. They were destroyed because the Rebel Alliance had schematics of the first one and knew that a small squadron of fighters would do much better than a large fleet, which is said in the film to be inneffective against it. The PT era always tried to use large fleets in their space battles and having little knowledge of the first DS would mean they would receive heavy casualities going against it they way they normally do.

The 2nd one was destroyed because admittedly of Palpatines miscalculation of Vaders love for his son. Barring that and if he stayed in control the Empire would have won the battle. Not to mention in an all out fight the Empire will use fleets to assist the first and 2nd Death Stars making them nearly nigh unassailable.

That's assuming most of the Jedi and Sith will know how to fight in starships, it's clear that most don't. Not to mention sending hundreds of them to try and take down either of the Death Stars is suicide, see AOTC and how over 200 Jedi knights was wittled down to just over 20. Anakin and Obi-wan had an entire fleet to assist them, they clearly didn't solo the CIS fleet and only had to really worry about enemy fighters.

Considering that the Stormtroopers evolved from the GAR I doubt that the difference in skill is that much worse. The Droids didn't really do much in the films that the Troopers couldn't do.

Originally posted by The Merchant
Context is just as important. They were destroyed because the Rebel Alliance had schematics of the first one and knew that a small squadron of fighters would do much better than a large fleet, which is said in the film to be inneffective against it. The PT era always tried to use large fleets in their space battles and having little knowledge of the first DS would mean they would receive heavy casualities going against it they way they normally do.

The 2nd one was destroyed because admittedly of Palpatines miscalculation of Vaders love for his son. Barring that and if he stayed in control the Empire would have won the battle. Not to mention in an all out fight the Empire will use fleets to assist the first and 2nd Death Stars making them nearly nigh unassailable.

That's assuming most of the Jedi and Sith will know how to fight in starships, it's clear that most don't. Not to mention sending hundreds of them to try and take down either of the Death Stars is suicide, see AOTC and how over 200 Jedi knights was wittled down to just over 20. Anakin and Obi-wan had an entire fleet to assist them, they clearly didn't solo the CIS fleet and only had to really worry about enemy fighters.

Considering that the Stormtroopers evolved from the GAR I doubt that the difference in skill is that much worse. The Droids didn't really do much in the films that the Troopers couldn't do. We see Anakin and Kenobi were the ones who successfully saved the Chancellor and they used small space craft.

A large fleet can be successful as well but the rebels lacked the firepower or the ships of these two hugely backed armies to really trade blows so to speak. The droids and clones could afford heavy casualties since they can be replaced far easier.

Speculation. They lost against a vastly inferior force. They are going up against two forces with better wisdom, better warriors, better resources, and more ships, people, etc.

Jedi knights won't be alone. When the clones showed up things quickly changed. You have hundreds of Jedi along with droids, clones, etc.

They actually were far more impressive. If you think the battle droids are equal to Stormtroopers you're an idiot.

Tbh just going from movies alone, the Clones, Storms, Rebels and Droids weren't all that much different as far as ground troops go. Aside from the Storms having scout patrols and them using stealth tactics.

Vehicle wise, the PT has the advantage mainly because...well the only vehicles we saw for the OT were AT-ATs and AT-STs and Snowspeeders. The Gunship the Clones have would be a bigger target compared to the Snowspeeders, but has more firepower.

Space wise, Empire/Rebels > GAR/CIS mostly because we didn't really see any space battles other than ROTS that was short.

The Empire/Rebel pilots also looked much better than the Clone and Droid ones. I mean the only thing the latter would have on the former, is the Buzz droids and Anakin/Obi-Wan, although the latter would be offset by Luke and Wedge. Adding in Han too also helps with the Falcon. Plus Vader of course who'd be a big help given his knowledge as Anakin. The Executor also helps and having the DS if they are allowed, along with Home One and the Rebel fleet.

GE steamrolls.

Originally posted by ares834
GE steamrolls. Just like they did against the rebels. Oh wait..........

Originally posted by The Merchant
The Empire were able to build the Death Star 1 and 2. You could argue the CIS and the Republic might be able to build the first one since the CIS did have the schematics for it but definitely not 2. The 2nd one was built according to the opening crawl shortly before Luke was going to save Han Solo which means a lot.

The Empire could just use the Death Stars to conquer the Galaxy really, considering that we know in ANH the first one would have made the entire Galaxy buckle under their rule with no resistance.

yea... except the first Death Star was destroyed by one kid who wasn't even close to being a Jedi...how do you think ti would fare against several fully trained jedi flying down that trench....

Quite a bit better actually. Not every Jedi is an ace pilot and most won't be able to hold a candle to Luke.

Originally posted by ares834
Quite a bit better actually. Not every Jedi is an ace pilot and most won't be able to hold a candle to Luke.

taking TCW into account, Plo Koon, Obi Wan and especially Anakin are expert fliers... thats three more than took down the original Death Star and quite a bit more trained as well.

also the Imperial Stormtroopers were horrible fighters, they couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, the Droid army is just as bad but the Clones were actually very precise and great fighters.

Expert? Nah, they're certainly skilled, but none of them aside from Anakin have shown skill to match that of Luke. Or, heck, Wedge for that matter.

and what exactly did they show that puts them on some elite tier? the Clone fighters are made to look like great pilots in TCW, much better than Luke or Wedge and Anakins dog run for Grevious' ship at the beginning of ROTS trumps anything Luke showed in the OT

Originally posted by relentless1
also the Imperial Stormtroopers were horrible fighters, they couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, the Droid army is just as bad but the Clones were actually very precise and great fighters.

You clearly didn't watch the OT then.

Originally posted by relentless1
the Clone fighters are made to look like great pilots in TCW, much better than Luke


Urm no.


The only one > Luke as a pilot was Anakin.

Originally posted by ares834
Quite a bit better actually. Not every Jedi is an ace pilot and most won't be able to hold a candle to Luke. Anakin, Kenobi, etc. they also have clones who were vastly superior to the rebel scum that assisted Luke. Ot fanboyism is a stain on the Star Wars universe. I am here to wipe it out.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
You clearly didn't watch the OT then.

There are various memes about how terrible the Stormtroopers were. Name some scenes in which they were badass then. Let's compare that with clones executing hundreds of Jedi. It isn't even close when comparing Ot Stormtroopers to clone troopers.

Originally posted by quanchi112


There are various memes about how terrible the Stormtroopers were. Name some scenes in which they were badass then. Let's compare that with clones executing hundreds of Jedi. It isn't even close when comparing Ot Stormtroopers to clone troopers.

Really? Ok.

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/127594/4610125-3359847748-94mpA.gif

Destroying a defended Rebel Trooper force. Making them retreat multiple times.

http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/127594/4609994-0755686031-AaXMy.gif

With one backhanded blow, sends Han to the ground before they engage in a rousing fist fight according to the ROTJ script.

Rousing= Exciting.

http://static6.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/127594/4609999-7822759337-43557.gif

Blasts R2 out of commission.

http://static7.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/127594/4610000-7834681872-43557.gif

Wounds Leia.

http://static8.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/127594/4610001-3698567739-43557.gif

That last one blows away any accurate shooting we saw from any Clone Trooper in the PT movies, the guy did it one handed with a blaster pistol while driving one handed on a fast moving speeder bike, his attention divided between aiming, shooting and driving to not crash into any trees.

The Clones killing the Jedi isn't impressive for a few reasons.

1. It was a surprise attack, the Clones having worked with the Jedi for years just suddenly turn and kill their commanders before they could even realize what happens.

2. Overwhelming numbers.

It wouldn't be that hard for pretty much any to do this given those circumstances.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Really? Ok.

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/127594/4610125-3359847748-94mpA.gif

So you believe this is more impressive than taking out Jedi. Really ? I mean really ?


The entire point of the rebels forces is they couldn't contend with the superior numbers, resources, equipment of the imperial forces. Do you disagree ? If not why is this so impressive ?

What hand to hand training does Han have ? So you believe Jangk the character the clones are based on fighting Kenobi to a stalemate isn't as impressive as someone taking on a scoundrel in a fist fight ? I mean really ??


So now a slow droid and an untrained princess is impressive. Oh for ****s sake. I'm talking about hunting and killing Jedi and you're saying look at them shoot a droid and a princess ?? Really ?????
Ok finally something worthwhile. That is a decent showing. But once again it comes down to who this one lone trooper is doing it too. It isn't some badass warrior is it ? We then look at what the clones were able to do with order 66 or when attacking the droids in far greater numbers and the choice is clear. A press the board the clones were far more capable. How many Jedi survived order 66 ?


How many instances of Stormtroopers were killed, hurt, maimed by princesses, Han Solo, and that unforgivable routing by primitive ewoks. I mean do you really think the ewoks can do that to the clone troopers ? Really ?????


1. Precognition. It's funny how you Star Wars fanatics conveniently ignore this when you don't want to. We see clips and see they weren't all killed before they knew what was occurring.

2. Stormtroopers had overwhelming numbers were they successfu against the rebels ? Looks like they didn't get the job done. The clones were successful against far better than what the stormies failed against.

/Sigh, you asked for showings which is what I gave.

1. Only Mundi and Yoda really knew what was happening before they died, every other Jedi was killed before they even realized what was happening.

2. Uhh...yes? The Tantive IV? Battle of Hoth?

Killing the Jedi in the manner they were dispatched in, again....isn't all that hard for overwhelming numbers to do.

We saw this in AOTC in the Geonosis Arena, we then see it again in ROTS.

Why you think it's some special showing for the Clones...I have no idea.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
/Sigh, you asked for showings which is what I gave.

1. Only Mundi and Yoda really knew what was happening before they died, every other Jedi was killed before they even realized what was happening.

2. Uhh...yes? The Tantive IV? Battle of Hoth?

Killing the Jedi in the manner they were dispatched in, again....isn't all that hard for overwhelming numbers to do.

We saw this in AOTC in the Geonosis Arena, we then see it again in ROTS.

Why you think it's some special showing for the Clones...I have no idea. You didn't give me anything impressive save the one feat.

1. False, and the entire temple knew what was occurring and were mowed down.

2. Come again ?

We see that overwhelming numbers/resources/tech didn't help bring Han in until he was betrayed by Lando.

You mocked the Jedi for going down to superior numbers in that arena but somehow criticize the clones. Do you not see the hypocrisy ?

Do you believe one droid is equal to one clone ?

I believe the clones in combat were vastly more impressive than the Stormtroopers. You disagree but it's really not hard to figure out. I think you're also being dishonest when you even make the claim.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You didn't give me anything impressive save the one feat.

1. False, and the entire temple knew what was occurring and were mowed down.

2. Come again ?

We see that overwhelming numbers/resources/tech didn't help bring Han in until he was betrayed by Lando.

You mocked the Jedi for going down to superior numbers in that arena but somehow criticize the clones. Do you not see the hypocrisy ?

Do you believe one droid is equal to one clone ?

I believe the clones in combat were vastly more impressive than the Stormtroopers. You disagree but it's really not hard to figure out. I think you're also being dishonest when you even make the claim.

1. Yeah due to overwhelming numbers...

2. The Tantive IV and Battle of Hoth, the Empire had clear overwhelming numbers against the Rebels where they were successful.

I wasn't mocking the Jedi? I was saying they were killed by overwhelming numbers.

No?

All I'm saying is, is that the Clones killing the Jedi via overwhelming numbers...isn't something super special.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
1. Yeah due to overwhelming numbers...

2. The Tantive IV and Battle of Hoth, the Empire had clear overwhelming numbers against the Rebels where they were successful.

I wasn't mocking the Jedi? I was saying they were killed by overwhelming numbers.

No?

All I'm saying is, is that the Clones killing the Jedi via overwhelming numbers...isn't something super special. 1. The storms failed with overwhelming numbers so..

2. They didn't put down the rebels. They won battles but lost the war. What's more important to you battles or the entire war ?

The rebels succeeded overall despite facing over helming numbers, ships, Death Stars, etc.


Do you believe one clone trooper is equal to one stormie ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
1. The storms failed with overwhelming numbers so..

2. They didn't put down the rebels. They won battles but lost the war. What's more important to you battles or the entire war ?

The rebels succeeded overall despite facing over helming numbers, ships, Death Stars, etc.


Do you believe one clone trooper is equal to one stormie ?

1. If they failed with overwhelming numbers, then explain the Tantive IV and Battle of Hoth where they captured Leia and the Rebel Troopers aboard and then at Hoth, destroyed the base?

Clearly overwhelming numbers worked there.

By the movies? The Rebels barely succeeded, the 1st Death Star attack they only destroyed it because Luke was with them. Without him, the Rebellion would have been done.

The Rebels lost Echo Base and were forced into retreat.

They only won Endor due to Chewie with his hijacking and the Ewoks.

By the movies alone? Yeah I do.

Anyway since I know you're gonna turn this around somehow, since all I was doing was giving evidence of overwhelming numbers and showings for Storms not trying to discuss this whole thing here.

I'm just gonna end it here mmk?

Originally posted by Zenwolf
1. If they failed with overwhelming numbers, then explain the Tantive IV and Battle of Hoth where they captured Leia and the Rebel Troopers aboard and then at Hoth, destroyed the base?

Clearly overwhelming numbers worked there.

By the movies? The Rebels barely succeeded, the 1st Death Star attack they only destroyed it because Luke was with them. Without him, the Rebellion would have been done.

The Rebels lost Echo Base and were forced into retreat.

They only won Endor due to Chewie with his hijacking and the Ewoks.

By the movies alone? Yeah I do.

Anyway since I know you're gonna turn this around somehow, since all I was doing was giving evidence of overwhelming numbers and showings for Storms not trying to discuss this whole thing here.

I'm just gonna end it here mmk? 1. They won battles not the war. The Jedi were put down as an order and extinguished.

The rebels did prevail. They even took out Vader who was an experienced Sith lord whereas Luke was an untrained, inexperienced Jedi. For shame on the empire. Superior numbers, experience, and power all failed. Pathetic.

Do what you must.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
You clearly didn't watch the OT then.

oh I saw... I saw them unable to hit Han Solo at basically point blank range, I saw them get beat down by EWOKS