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Duel takes place on neutral ground

Round 1: Asajj vs. Ahsoka, Obi Wan vs. Savage

Round 2: Ahsoka vs. Savage, Obi Wan vs. Ventress

Team 2, both rounds.

Team 2's flat-out better.

Yeah, Team 2. Savage is the weak link.

Ventress isn't a whole lot better. Heck, she's probably not better at all.

She is, though.

Based on what?

I don't think she'd be inferior to a guy who gets stomped by dogs.

It wasn't a stomp, and it was a trained dog, at least.

Whereas Asajj is inferior to beings who struggle to beat senators in unarmed combat.

My dog is more trained than Embo's mut. A house cat ~ Darth Maul.

That senator was clearly Force sensitive. He was an ally of senator Viento.

Originally posted by MythLord
I don't think she'd be inferior to a guy who gets stomped by dogs.

Well she obviously is. Given she already lost to him.

When he was amped by rage. I recall an Asajj with one saber handling herself well enough against Savage in a pure saber duel until he started pulling unarmed combat(and even then she managed to perform fairly well).

Originally posted by MythLord
When he was amped by rage.


That was the first time.

Originally posted by MythLord
I recall an Asajj with one saber handling herself well enough against Savage in a pure saber duel until he started pulling unarmed combat(and even then she managed to perform fairly well).

She was losing.

First when Kenobi needed to save her by passing her 2nd Saber. Then again when she agreed with Kenobi that they were outmatched and needed to run.


If you think she'd do better with 2 Sabers that's fine, but there's nothing to suggest that'd make such a huge difference that she'd suddenly go from losing to being superior to him.

And let me remind you Savage didn't even utilize his beastly TK in that fight.

Yeah neither Savage or Ventress can remotely measure up to either of team two.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Based on what? Based on being able to legitimately hold her own against Dooku, Obi-Wan, and Anakin.


And Savage being a liability in a 2v1 versus Kenobi.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
That was the first time.



She was losing.

First when Kenobi needed to save her by passing her 2nd Saber. Then again when she agreed with Kenobi that they were outmatched and needed to run.


If you think she'd do better with 2 Sabers that's fine, but there's nothing to suggest that'd make such a huge difference that she'd suddenly go from losing to being superior to him.

And let me remind you Savage didn't even utilize his beastly TK in that fight. If we use visual showings, after she got her second saber, shs started tooling him.

Kenobi got stomped in 3 seconds so HE decided it was time to go.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
If we use visual showings, after she got her second saber, shs started tooling him.


She was never tooling Savage.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
She was never tooling Savage. She was after she got her second saber, unless you're blind.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Based on being able to legitimately hold her own against Dooku, Obi-Wan, and Anakin.
Legitimately hold her own against Dooku?!... that's cute LOL
She got stomped every time she fought Dooku LMFAO

And as far as Anakin and Obi-Wan go, there were maybe five seconds in both 2v1s combined where they were actually both attacking her at once. The rest of the time it was her fighting one of them while the other just kinda stood a few feet to several meters back watching. And neither of them were at their peaks yet (especially Anakin)

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Legitimately hold her own against Dooku?!... that's cute LOL
She got stomped every time she fought Dooku LMFAO

And as far as Anakin and Obi-Wan go, there were maybe five seconds in both 2v1s combined where they were actually both attacking her at once. The rest of the time it was her fighting one of them while the other just kinda stood a few feet to several meters back watching. And neither of them were at their peaks yet (especially Anakin) Nightsister fight? (Dooku was blinded and Ventress had help, but still.)

The only time Dooku really ever stomped her was in OCW and DD, IIRC.

I'm talking Ventress versus them one-on-one.

I don't think you know what "stomping" is.

Its ending the fight quickly and effortlessly.

Even AotC Kenobi stomped Ventress.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
She was after she got her second saber, unless you're blind.

Sounds like you're in denial.

Savage won that fight, as Ventress first needed Obi-Wan saving her, and then later ran anyway.


So If you're going to claim otherwise provide the evidence.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Sounds like you're in denial.

Savage won that fight, as Ventress first needed Obi-Wan saving her, and then later ran anyway.


So If you're going to claim otherwise provide the evidence. She was only using one saber after using Jar'Kai for pretty much her entire life.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
She was only using one saber after using Jar'Kai for pretty much her entire life.


Same in Dark Disciple. She's fully adept in the use of 1 Saber.

Also Savage didn't even unleash his Beastly Tk in that fight.

Ventress is so weak.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Same in Dark Disciple. She's fully adept in the use of 1 Saber.

Also Savage didn't even unleash his Beastly Tk in that fight. You mean the beastly TK that he only gets from a rage amp, that he can't replicate on a regular basis?

Adept isn't good enough to keep up with Savage.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Nightsister fight? (Dooku was blinded and Ventress had help, but still.)

The only time Dooku really ever stomped her was in OCW and DD, IIRC.

I'm talking Ventress versus them one-on-one.

I don't think you know what "stomping" is.

Its ending the fight quickly and effortlessly.
So your singular example of Ventress holding her own against Dooku is when Dooku was blind and drugged, and Ventress was invisible... with help from two other invisible nightsisters who happened to be the best warriors in the clan... and he still ultimately overpowered them. You aren't making your case very well.

You seem to have also forgotten the 2v1 with Savage, where despite having aid she performed pitifully against Dooku (i.e. She charged at him and he floored her within five seconds, he attacked her and floored her within five seconds, and she failed to cut him down for an entire 15 second period of time where he was unarmed not using the Force to keep her at bay and barely retreating).

Or the 1v1 that followed where she attacked him from behind and he immediately drove her into a desperate retreat where she was literally leaping and running away from him for 10-20 seconds before he oneshotted her with the Force.

Or in Dark Rendezvous where he just flat out telekineically dominated her without much effort.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
So your singular example of Ventress holding her own against Dooku is when Dooku was blind and drugged, and Ventress was invisible... with help from two other invisible nightsisters who happened to be the best warriors in the clan... and he still ultimately overpowered them. You aren't making your case very well.

You seem to have also forgotten the 2v1 with Savage, where despite having aid she performed pitifully against Dooku (i.e. She charged at him and he floored her within five seconds, he attacked her and floored her within five seconds, and she failed to cut him down for an entire 15 second period of time where he was unarmed not using the Force to keep her at bay and barely retreating).

Or the 1v1 that followed where she attacked him from behind and he immediately drove her into a desperate retreat where she was literally leaping and running away from him for 10-20 seconds before he oneshotted her with the Force.

Or in Dark Rendezvous where he just flat out telekineically dominated her without much effort. Fair enough.

Conceded.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
You mean the beastly TK that he only gets from a rage amp, that he can't replicate on a regular basis?


Really was this a one-off rage amp?:

@1:52

?v=aE_CVWMWK74


Or this?:

@19:31

?v=aVuzLkq67T8

and again at 52:00 and again at 53:28?



Originally posted by Jmanghan
Adept isn't good enough to keep up with Savage.


Yeah because he's =/> her.

She regularly fights off 2 opponents with her Dual Sabers, so is used to fighting off one opponent with one saber.

She also seems to be at her peak in DD, where again she's perfectly happy using 1 single Saber as her primary weapon.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
She was losing.

First when Kenobi needed to save her by passing her 2nd Saber. Then again when she agreed with Kenobi that they were outmatched and needed to run.

Only at the point where Savage disarmed her via sheer physical strength by dodging one of her own strikes, which forced her to overextend herself.

And then without a lightsaber she proceeds to dodge all of his attacks and land several physical strikes. Obviously she was going to lose without a saber, so Kenobi gave her one.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
If you think she'd do better with 2 Sabers that's fine, but there's nothing to suggest that'd make such a huge difference that she'd suddenly go from losing to being superior to him.

Like I said, she was losing due to overextending at one point and Savage landing a physical strike. Other than that, the fight between her and Savage seemed fairly well-balanced, with both trading blows and her even stopping an overhand attack with increased momentum from his leap.

They were only outmatched because Kenobi was barely himself in that fight, being exhausted and injured, and Asajj was placed somewhat out of her element without Jar'Kai.

With Jar'Kai, her defensive coverage is greater and her striking speed is faster. She's overall a better warrior with dual sabers, and can be argued as superior to Savage.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
And let me remind you Savage didn't even utilize his beastly TK in that fight.

Probably because Ventress has similar, beastly TK.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Even AotC Kenobi stomped Ventress. Cestus Deception, which is closer to AotC than TCW movie, has Kenobi and Ventress evenly matched for the most part.

Isn't the TCW movie 7 weeks after AotC? How can CD be closer than that?

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Isn't the TCW movie 7 weeks after AotC? How can CD be closer than that? mmm You may be right.

Either way if CD comes after it then Ventress improves enough to stalemate Kenobi, so whatevsies.

Right, she goes from being stomped to being equal in a matter of weeks?

Blame TCW for ignoring previously established power levels, not me.

What, do we consider that a retcon? I've never really known the established proceedings we carry out when a vague blight on the timeline pops up. I mean. Ventress supposedly gave Anakin that scar 6 months before the end of the war. I don't think the TCW movie occurs 2.5 years after AotC.

Or does it?

TCW ****s so much shit up, I try not to think about it out of fear of an aneurysm.

Tbh.

Ventress was hardly stomped by Kenobi, they duelled for some time.

And TCW isn't really compatible with Legends, besides the companion stuff.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
TCW ****s so much shit up, I try not to think about it out of fear of an aneurysm.

What is Continuity?

For Canon though it seems fine.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
What is Continuity?http://cdn.smosh.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/2016/04/krabs-meme-th.jpg

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Ventress was hardly stomped by Kenobi, they duelled for some time.

And TCW isn't really compatible with Legends, besides the companion stuff.

Yet people still use it when debating Legends...

Originally posted by Beniboybling
http://cdn.smosh.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/2016/04/krabs-meme-th.jpg

I was trying to go for a Jeopardy kinda thing there.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Yet people still use it when debating Legends... Well there is the assumption that it was designed to fit in with the EU continuity, but really it was a just laying the groundwork for the Canon/Legends split.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Well there is the assumption that it was designed to fit in with the EU continuity, but really it was a just laying the groundwork for the Canon/Legends split.

Someone else gets it! Woohoo.

I mean. I've managed to explain most of Grievous's TCW performances away. It was difficult though.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Ventress was hardly stomped by Kenobi, they duelled for some time. Yeah, but Kenobi was apparently stalling until Anakin left Teth with Rotta.

Yeah, but wouldn't it make more sense just to take her out?

That's true. If he could have captured her he would have.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yeah, but wouldn't it make more sense just to take her out? Well, if Ventress thought she was about to lose she'd probably run away, and after she escaped she'd start refocusing on capturing Rotta. If Kenobi took her attention away from her primary objective by drawing out the fight without giving the impression she was losing, it gives Anakin a better chance to escape the system.

That's true as well.

Fair point Joker.

It's probably fair to say that Obi Wan didn't have a high amount of confidence that he could capture her. At least not to the point that he was willing to risk the rescue mission.

Ventress is incredibly difficult to capture, no matter who you are, tbh.

Team two both unless Savage batters down Kenobi before Tano kills Ventress

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Yet people still use it when debating Legends...


Well Legends made the mistake of trying to align TCW into it's continuity.

TCW/Canon on the other hand never gave a shit about Legends. They would just borrow the odd thing they liked.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well Legends made the mistake of trying to align TCW into it's continuity.

TCW/Canon on the other hand never gave a shit about Legends. They would just borrow the odd thing they liked.

Which is why imo, why it should only be used for Canon debates.

It's not like there isn't Legends CW material, cause there is.