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1. Sabers
2. Force
3. All-Out

Dooku. Jar Kai is going to do nothing to leverage him.

Dooku in all. As always sabers is close.

Ridiculous thread. Dooku already one-shot a superior Kenobi.

Originally posted by Kurk
Dooku. Jar Kai is going to do nothing to leverage him.


Might help. If Kenobi's all over him like he was the brothers, might give Dooku less chance to utilise his superior Force powers.


Originally posted by Azronger
Ridiculous thread. Dooku already one-shot a superior Kenobi.

Not totally ridiculous. It was a peak performance from an extra focused Kenobi, so I don't know how you can say he's still inferior to ROTS Kenobi just because..

And he did handle a superior duo to the one Dooku struggled against in Witches of the Mist.

The count spanks.

Dooku ragdolls.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Not totally ridiculous. It was a peak performance from an extra focused Kenobi, so I don't know how you can say he's still inferior to ROTS Kenobi just because..

And he did handle a superior duo to the one Dooku struggled against in Witches of the Mist.

Because Kenobi's beating of Grievous is more impressive than beating these two clowns?

And Dooku wasn't struggling with Ventress and Savage, lol.

Originally posted by Azronger
Because Kenobi's beating of Grievous is more impressive than beating these two clowns?

And Dooku wasn't struggling with Ventress and Savage, lol.


So Grievous is > Maul & Savage combined now.. Wow. These boards have lost their marbles when it comes to the Maul Bros.

Yeah sure Dooku got slammed on the floor then choked, but he didn't struggle
SW.COM confirms he barely had the edge over the duo.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
So Grievous is > Maul & Savage combined now.. Wow. These boards have lost their marbles when it comes to the Maul Bros.

Yeah sure Dooku got slammed on the floor then choked, but he didn't struggle
SW.COM confirms he barely had the edge over the duo. He didn't struggle up until Savage became bloodlusted.

Dooku will struggle in sabers but he should still pull it off.

He wins force and all out easy enough.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
So Grievous is > Maul & Savage combined now.. Wow. These boards have lost their marbles when it comes to the Maul Bros.

Yeah sure Dooku got slammed on the floor then choked, but he didn't struggle
SW.COM confirms he barely had the edge over the duo.

Yeah, Grievous actually managed to overwhelm Kenobi's guard. Something that cannot be said for the Zabrak bros, even though they had a massive Force advantage.

If you call one lucky shot a struggle, then be my guest, but I'm sticking with the rest of the duel - Dooku dodging every blow Savage made and dominating him with the Force.

And we aren't factoring in enraged Savage, of course. You said an inferior team to the Zabrak bros. He isn't inferior to them.

And in a later episodes he dominates Anakin and Obi-Wan, the best duo of the Clone Wars. One low showing doesn't invalidate every other showing he has.

Originally posted by ares834
Dooku will struggle in sabers but he should still pull it off.

I doubt that, given the way he dominates Kenobi (among other people) in unarmed combat and in the RotS comic one-shots him with a kick.

Originally posted by Azronger
Yeah, Grievous actually managed to overwhelm Kenobi's guard. Something that cannot be said for the Zabrak bros, even though they had a massive Force advantage.

If you call one lucky shot a struggle, then be my guest, but I'm sticking with the rest of the duel - Dooku dodging every blow Savage made and dominating him with the Force.

And we aren't factoring in enraged Savage, of course. You said an inferior team to the Zabrak bros. He isn't inferior to them.

And in a later episodes he dominates Anakin and Obi-Wan, the best duo of the Clone Wars. One low showing doesn't invalidate every other showing he has.

Which Maul took advantage of, once Kenobi ****ed Savage up.

Originally posted by Azronger
I doubt that, given the way he dominates Kenobi (among other people) in unarmed combat and in the RotS comic one-shots him with a kick.

And in the novel Dooku shat his pants twice from Kenobi's defense.

Originally posted by Kurk
Dooku. Jar Kai is going to do nothing to leverage him.

Originally posted by Azronger
Yeah, Grievous actually managed to overwhelm Kenobi's guard. Something that cannot be said for the Zabrak bros, even though they had a massive Force advantage.


Grievous didn't visibly overwhelm Kenobi's guard. He also (like the Brothers) landed zero hits on Kenobi in their ROTS duel.

Just looking at the performance, Kenobi gave much more on Florrum.

The Force advantage was kind of negated in the small cave. Maul was able to masterfully levitate Kenobi once. But Savage mainly uses Force waves, not appropriate in the small cave especially with Maul on the other side.


Originally posted by Azronger
If you call one lucky shot a struggle, then be my guest, but I'm sticking with the rest of the duel - Dooku dodging every blow Savage made and dominating him with the Force.

The official site:

Panel 8:

http://www.starwars.com/databank/savage-opress-biography-gallery

"Dooku's Sith mastery barely gave him the edge over his former apprentices."

I'm sticking with the official site, that Dooku was overall superior to the duo, but he certainly wasn't stomping or anything.


Originally posted by Azronger
And we aren't factoring in enraged Savage, of course. You said an inferior team to the Zabrak bros. He isn't inferior to them.

The official site was talking pre-rage Savage.

Grievous is inferior to Maul alone as confirmed in SOD. Forget Maul and Savage combined LOL

And Ventress+Savage are definitely inferior to Maul + a slightly more powerful Savage Lol


Originally posted by Azronger
And in a later episodes he dominates Anakin and Obi-Wan, the best duo of the Clone Wars. One low showing doesn't invalidate every other showing he has.

Like the official site says, it wasn't a low showing for Dooku. His former apprentices were just that powerful.

Dooku also performs better in a more open space, whereas Kenobi's Soresu performs better in a tighter space (i.e. the Florrum cave).

And was the later episode where he dominates both Kenobi and Anakin a peak performance for either Kenobi or Anakin? Nope.

I can show you Anakin struggling against Barriss Offee if you want, proving he's not always going all out, giving his best performance.

And Kenobi was specifically noted as being more focused than usual in the Florrum cave fight.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Which Maul took advantage of, once Kenobi ****ed Savage up.

And then ran away.

Originally posted by Darth Thor


He did, in the RotS novel.



That's a point for Kenobi, not the Zabraks.



Gave much more of what?



It clearly wasn't negated when Maul did indeed, as you said, manage to Force grip Kenobi. And still Kenobi was tooling them.



They can describe it however they want, but it doesn't alter the fight itself; the facts still remain: Dooku dodged six out of seven blows from Savage and dominated him with the Force. As for Ventress, when unarmed, he dodged every blow, and when armed, he blocked every blow, and also floored her with a kick.

I use Dooku's feats he pulled off in the duel to determine how good he is, rather than scaling based off of website descriptions.



And you were talking about enraged Savage.



If Maul is Grievous' superior, then why do you think he decided to BFR him with the Force? Savage's addition wouldn't make any difference. Ki-Adi-Mundi managed to contend admirably with Grievous by himself, yet the help of four Jedi did him no good. I've said it before and I'll say it again: the strength of numbers is overrated. And that was only with two sabers. With four, it's no contest; Grievous is a much, much deadlier foe than the Zabrak brothers.



Did you even read what I said? I clearly said enraged Savage.



The site mentioned nothing of the sort. If one has the brains to compare his performance there to his other fights, it becomes quite clear it was a low showing.



Kenobi's Soresu performs well anywhere.



Does it need to be? Nope. Long as it's consisitent with their other performances, which it is.



Do you know what context is?



And you're bringing this up, because...?

Originally posted by Azronger
He did, in the RotS novel.

That's a point for Kenobi, not the Zabraks


You need to learn the meaning of the word visibly.

Fact is Grievous (like the Zabrack brothers on Florrum) landed Zero hits on Kenobi, during the Saber duel.

Actually no that's not true, Maul did land 2 TK hits on Kenobi. Both of which floored him. Grievous landed nothing.



Originally posted by Azronger



Gave much more of what?


Of his capabilities. Going all Jar Kai, coordinated flips all over the place, whilst keeping up his most solid Soresu defenses.

A perfect blend of his best Ataru and Soresu combined.



Originally posted by Azronger
It clearly wasn't negated when Maul did indeed, as you said, manage to Force grip Kenobi. And still Kenobi was tooling them.

Yes Maul floored Kenobi twice on Florrum. Grievous did squat to Kenobi in ROTS.

Grievous is no match for Maul alone, let alone Maul + Opress combined LMAO

And yeah Kenobi tooled Maul real good by getting floored by him twice



Originally posted by Azronger
They can describe it however they want, but it doesn't alter the fight itself; the facts still remain: Dooku dodged six out of seven blows from Savage and dominated him with the Force. As for Ventress, when unarmed, he dodged every blow, and when armed, he blocked every blow, and also floored her with a kick.
I use Dooku's feats he pulled off in the duel to determine how good he is, rather than scaling based off of website descriptions


IOW: "Screw the official sources, I will instead declare my opinion on the fight canon".

When Savage finally does hit Dooku, it only takes 1 hit and he smacks Dooku against the wall, flooring and disarming him.

After that Dooku had to repeatedly shoot Savage just to keep him at bay while he fought off Ventress.




Originally posted by Azronger
And you were talking about enraged Savage.

No I wasn't.



Originally posted by Azronger
If Maul is Grievous' superior, then why do you think he decided to BFR him with the Force?


Urm, to finish the fight quicker perhaps. What is TK'ing someone off a cliff mid-fight not allowed now?

Remind me again how Kenobi ended the Saber fight with Grievous in ROTS? Lmao


Originally posted by Azronger
Savage's addition wouldn't make any difference.


LMAO

Originally posted by Azronger
Ki-Adi-Mundi managed to contend admirably with Grievous by himself, yet the help of four Jedi did him no good.


Yeah let's ignore the fact that those Jedi were already exhausted prior to the fight against Grievous.




Originally posted by Azronger
I've said it before and I'll say it again: the strength of numbers is overrated.


Tell that to Grievous who runs from Anakin and Obi-Wan, but challenges Ob-Wan on his own.


Originally posted by Azronger
And that was only with two sabers. With four, it's no contest; Grievous is a much, much deadlier foe than the Zabrak brothers.


Proof that Grievous fights so much better with 4 Sabers. Because going by the evidence I've seen, he's actually always performed better fighting with 2 Sabers, then getting in surprise physical attacks from his free hands/feet.

Also this Grievous fanboyism of yours is reaching ridiculous levels.

Even Kenobi's no match for Both Zabrack brothers under normal circumstances. Heck both Brothers would take out Dooku under normal circumstances.

Yet you sit here with a straight face saying Grievous is a much more deadly opponent than both brothers combined LMAO



Originally posted by Azronger
Did you even read what I said? I clearly said enraged Savage.


I'm getting tired of explaining to you that Dooku was struggling against Savage and Ventress PRE-Rage boost.



Originally posted by Azronger
The site mentioned nothing of the sort. If one has the brains to compare his performance there to his other fights, it becomes quite clear it was a low showing.


Or Dooku just performs better in a more open environment.

Because environment matters.

In any case if he has another low showing, could peak performance Florrum Kenobi beat him?



Originally posted by Azronger
Kenobi's Soresu performs well anywhere.


You need to keep better informed on Canon. According to both Rebels, and SW:Absolutely Everything You Need To Know, Soresu is designed for tight quarters.



Originally posted by Azronger
Does it need to be? Nope. Long as it's consisitent with their other performances, which it is.


So let's get this straight.. You keep repeating Dooku vs Savage & Ventress was a low performance for him, yet you ignore the fight where Dooku did particularly well was likely a lower end performance for Anakin and Obi-Wan.

Double standards much?



Originally posted by Azronger
Do you know what context is?


Irony much?



Originally posted by Azronger
And you're bringing this up, because...?


Because that's the version of Kenobi we're discussing here LMAO

Keep with the program if you want to debate it.

I don't see Obi-Wan's focus mode making much of a difference when Dooku can still anticipate anything he attempts with Ataru, and Obi-Wan just isn't winning with Soresu.

That's two advantages (Ataru surprise & getting the two brothers in each other's way) irrelevant.

On the other hand, Tyranus is likely still capable of beating Obi-Wan in a fencing contest, but even if not, he can easily exploit Obi-Wan's shitty, prone-to-lapse Force defenses to ragdoll him.

Originally posted by SunRazer
I don't see Obi-Wan's focus mode making much of a difference when Dooku can still anticipate anything he attempts with Ataru, and Obi-Wan just isn't winning with Soresu.

That's two advantages (Ataru surprise & getting the two brothers in each other's way) irrelevant.

On the other hand, Tyranus is likely still capable of beating Obi-Wan in a fencing contest, but even if not, he can easily exploit Obi-Wan's shitty, prone-to-lapse Force defenses to ragdoll him.


A far superior argument to saying ROTS Grievous >> Maul and Opress combined.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
A far superior argument to saying ROTS Grievous >> Maul and Opress combined.

Which is fairly feasible at this point.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Which is fairly feasible at this point.


And what point is that? One embarrassing showing from Rebels Maul against Kanan?

Since his Clone War resurrection Maul has always shown himself to be a peer of Obi-Wan's. Nothing's changed there.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Maul has always shown himself to be a peer of Obi-Wan's

LMAO

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
LMAO


I suggest you rewatch TPM, and TCW episodes Revenge and Revival.

Thor, I'll respond when I have time.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I suggest you rematch TPM

Where Maul gets cut in half by a padawan?



Where Maul only defeats Kenobi because he's injured/exhausted?



Where Maul looses to Kenobi with his brother Savage at his side?

Maul is lucky if he's peering over AOTC Kenobi at this point. His is only saving grace is his enraged capabilities.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
1)Where Maul gets cut in half by a padawan?



2)Where Maul only defeats Kenobi because he's injured/exhausted?



3)Where Maul looses to Kenobi with his brother Savage at his side?


1)Where Maul matched Master and Padawan together. You arguing he was no match for the Padawan? LMAO

2) Excuses much? Kanan after getting torture for days performed better against the GI than ever before. Getting slapped around a bit before the fight is hardly a massive excuse against a Maul whose not fought in 10 years LMAO

3) Tell me who was floored at the end: Maul or Savage. Hell Maul and Kenobi even had a 1 on 1 in the same episode which lasted longer than the 2 on 1 and still left no conclusion.

@Azronger: Maul started winning that fight before the dun moch.


So yeah they've always been peers. No amount of Maul hate is going to change that. In fact Rebels is putting these 2 peers against each other once more.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
2) Excuses much? Kanan after getting torture for days performed better against the GI than ever before. Getting slapped around a bit before the fight is hardly a massive excuse against a Maul whose not fought in 10 years LMAO

Yeah because he was amped off of Ezra's apparent death. Shit argument.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Yeah because he was amped off of Ezra's apparent death. Shit argument.


And he was useless before that right? Wait no he was fighting just as well as usual, and was properly tortured unlike Kenobi. And it was GI's first proper Lightsaber fight in 10 years right? No wait it wasn't at all.

In any case, the focused Kanan just proved when someone's capable the prior "torture" shouldn't be an excuse.


So the "shit" seems to be yours.

Sure, it's not an excuse when you are amped.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Sure, it's not an excuse when you are amped.

If that was an Amp then Kenobi was also Amped against Maul & Opress. But tbh what you're calling Amps were really just Peak performances.

Kanan proved that being tortured doesn't necessarily mean you can't give your best after. Especially given (again) that Kenobi really hadn't been tortured yet, just slapped around a bit, and that really it was his opponent facing the bigger disadvantage in that fight (having not fought properly in 10+years).

Originally posted by Darth Thor
So Grievous is > Maul & Savage combined now.. Wow. These boards have lost their marbles when it comes to the Maul Bros.

Yeah sure Dooku got slammed on the floor then choked, but he didn't struggle
SW.COM confirms he barely had the edge over the duo.
Dooku, Anakin and Ventress are victims of Savage's exaggerated powers in S3 and S4. Obi-Wan would be as well, if he wouldn't face Savage in S5. From a guy who stalemated Obi-Wan and Anakin twice, overhelmed Kenobi, overhelmed Ventress, overhelmed Dooku at some point, and stomp a jedi master, while having far inferior weapon, he was degraded to a level, when he can't compete with Kenobi and Maul.
Savage's powers were retconed, and wha'ts happened before S5 should be treat 100% serious.

Grievous perhaps is > Savage alone. And perhaps not. Grievous coulnd't beat Fisto and Ventress, and Savage's performance against Sidious is confirmed to be superior to Fisto's/Tiin's/Kolar's.

Maul is cleary above Grievous.

Kenobi's performance on Florrum are also somehow overrated. S5 Savage is a poor fighter. If only Adi had more physical strenght, she might be able to beat him. She land a kick on his knee, which - with Anakin's or Mace's strenght - could even broke it. She was overhelmed by his strengh, not skill.
Savage got nearly owned by Kenobi, if not Maul he would be dead even before their battle in a cave. And during that one, he got a lot of kicks by Kenobi. One of them enabled Kenobi to cat-off his arm.
Savage was also pathetic, when he was stomped by Maul. And not, it wasn't due to Maul's superior legs. Maul stomped him due to superior skill.
And it's worth of noted, that in a cave, Kenobi did nothing, that would put his performances above Maul's. Maul saved Savage before that battle, he overhelmed Kenobi with TK, and slamed him onto wall at the end of their fight. He got kicked once ot twice in the whole episode.

A tight environment is better suited for Soresu over the energy-conserving, thrust, parry, stab nature of makashi?