DE Sidious vs GM Luke vs vs Valkorian

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UCanShootMyNova
Force only ( no H2H, no resurrection ).

Ursumeles

UCanShootMyNova
You read the OP right? No lightsabers or H2H.

Ursumeles

UCanShootMyNova
... You're very strange to me Urs.

The Ellimist
Valkorion dies as an after effect of Sidious and Luke's duel, and Luke wins.

Ursumeles

UCanShootMyNova
No I mean that you think Luke is above Sidious as a combative Force user.

Ursumeles
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
No I mean that you think Luke is above Sidious as a combative Force user.
He is smile

UCanShootMyNova
Wow. And you really believe that. Fascinating. smile

The Ellimist
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
No I mean that you think Luke is above Sidious as a combative Force user.

Yeah he is.

Ursumeles
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=634472&highlight=title%3A%28Luke%29
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=625914&highlight=title%3A%28luke+wank%29
@Syn read those smile

Tondemonai
Tbh Sheev would go straight for Luke, and Valkorion would let them duke it out, then best them both after they've been weakened.

Ursumeles

The Ellimist
Originally posted by Tondemonai
Tbh Sheev would go straight for Luke, and Valkorion would let them duke it out, then best them both after they've been weakened.

What Urs said, also a weakened Luke still wins.

Tondemonai
Originally posted by The Ellimist
What Urs said, also a weakened Luke still wins.

Lol

Ursumeles
If Sidious uses Force Storms, or one of them uses a big TK attack, Valk is probably also fugged.

JKBart
Valkorion

UCanShootMyNova
Tell us why mein capitain. Enlighten the masses. smile

darthbane77
They're all pretty much equals tbh, Valkorion's advantage is his spirit abilities. Luke will probably win this initially, but he'll be weak by the end; then spirit Valk shows up and kills him.

Ursumeles
Originally posted by darthbane77
They're all pretty much equals tbh, Valkorion's advantage is his spirit abilities. Luke will probably win this initially, but he'll be weak by the end; then spirit Valk shows up and kills him.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
no resurrection
And...
...Palpatine could do that too
...IIRC, Luke has a spirit destroying technique
...Force Ghost Luke pwns smile

MythLord
Luke > Sheev > Valk.

Azronger
Valkorion gets kinda stomped here, and Luke cannot beat Sidious in a Force only. Sidious wins in a gruelling fight.

Ursumeles
Originally posted by Azronger
Luke cannot beat Sidious in a Force only.
What?

darthbane77
Originally posted by Ursumeles
And...
...Palpatine could do that too
...IIRC, Luke has a spirit destroying technique
...Force Ghost Luke pwns smile Sidious' spirit abilities are childish compared to Valkorion's lol. I have no doubt Luke would be able to defeat Valk under normal circumstances (albeit with immense difficulty), but in this case Luke is weakened after having defeated Sidious and Valk's physical form; he simply wouldn't be strong enough to fight Valkorion a second time.

Ursumeles
Originally posted by darthbane77
Sidious' spirit abilities are childish compared to Valkorion's lol. I have no doubt Luke would be able to defeat Valk under normal circumstances (albeit with immense difficulty), but in this case Luke is weakened after having defeated Sidious and Valk's physical form; he simply wouldn't be strong enough to fight Valkorion a second time.
Nah.
No ressurection is stated in the OP.
But, if Valk comes back as spirit, then Luke could also come back as force ghost...

Azronger
Originally posted by Ursumeles
What?

How does he kill him?

darthbane77
Originally posted by Ursumeles
Nah.
No ressurection is stated in the OP.
But, if Valk comes back as spirit, then Luke could also come back as force ghost... But Luke has never significantly effected his environment as a spirit, Valkorion has that power. So Luke becoming a spirit won't do anything as far as a fight goes. Sure the OP doesn't directly mention a resurrection, but these fights (unless otherwise stated) involve the characters in their primes with all known powers.

MythLord
How come? The only reason Jedi don't abuse their power as Ghosts is because they don't need nor want to, but Jedi Ghosts are obviously capable of that, hence why both An'ya and Ben note they can become "far more powerful" than Vader.

Ursumeles
Originally posted by Azronger
How does he kill him?
No resurrection, and iirc he has an Spirit destroying technique.

MythLord
The ability to dispell spirits.

Azronger
Originally posted by Ursumeles
No resurrection, and iirc he has an Spirit destroying technique.

Great. So how does he kill him in the flesh, again?

carthage
Luke

darthbane77
Originally posted by MythLord
How come? The only reason Jedi don't abuse their power as Ghosts is because they don't need nor want to, but Jedi Ghosts are obviously capable of that, hence why both An'ya and Ben note they can become "far more powerful" than Vader. Have we ever seen a Jedi Spirit do anything to effect the environment like that before? To my knowledge we haven't, I was under the impression that was one of the things that made Dark Side and Light Side spirits different. Light spirits are "more powerful" because they're a part of the Force, which is essentially pure power. Dark Side spirits can alter their environment because they're still anchored to it, they're not one with the Force. Which is why they can change the world around them.

Ursumeles
Originally posted by Azronger
Great. So how does him in the flesh, again?
He kills him by being more powerful, and a better combative Force User.

MythLord
How does Sheev kill Luke in the flesh, again? Force Storms? Obviously not, Luke will press him too much for that and can shield himself from them.

He pulls a Force Light on Sidious, then beats the sh!t out of him.

Ursumeles
Originally posted by darthbane77
Have we ever seen a Jedi Spirit do anything to effect the environment like that before? To my knowledge we haven't, I was under the impression that was one of the things that made Dark Side and Light Side spirits different. Light spirits are "more powerful" because they're a part of the Force, which is essentially pure power. Dark Side spirits can alter their environment because they're still anchored to it, they're not one with the Force. Which is why they can change the world around them.
So...but how kills Valk Lukes spirit then?
Also, iirc, Jedi Spirits are in a state of permanent Oneness.

darthbane77
I don't think I ever said Sidous would beat Luke?

Ursumeles
Originally posted by darthbane77
I don't think I ever said Sidous would beat Luke?
He meant Az smile

Azronger
So Luke can just take his power away at will?

darthbane77
Originally posted by Ursumeles
He meant Az smile Ah OK, my mistake there.

darthbane77
Originally posted by Ursumeles
So...but how kills Valk Lukes spirit then?
Also, iirc, Jedi Spirits are in a state of permanent Oneness. Valk really doesn't have to kill Luke's spirit, once Luke's physical body dies there's really nothing he can do; as Jedi Ghosts really can't do anything significant as spirits for the reasons I stated. Unless you can prove that they can.

Ursumeles
Originally posted by darthbane77
Valk really doesn't have to kill Luke's spirit, once Luke's physical body dies there's really nothing he can do; as Jedi Ghosts really can't do anything significant as spirits for the reasons I stated. Unless you can prove that they can.
They are stated to be One with the force.
Also, neither Luke could harm Valk, nor Valk could harm Luke in your opinion, it seems. How does Valk winms, then?

darthbane77
Yeah. Just according to the wiki, jedi Spirits can't alter their environment. It's something that seems to be almost exclusive to Dark Siders.

The Ellimist
Originally posted by Azronger
Great. So how does he kill him in the flesh, again?

He could hurt Abeloth through the Force; I'm sure he could hurt Sidious. Telekinesis, sever Force, Force light, fold space, environmental hazzards, electric judgment, etc.

Azronger
Originally posted by The Ellimist
He could hurt Abeloth through the Force; I'm sure he could hurt Sidious. Telekinesis, sever Force, Force light, fold space, environmental hazzards, electric judgment, etc.

Yeah, he could hurt, but kill? Abeloth never pulled any specific Force techniques except lightning, so confronting her isn't the same as confronting the most verstile Sith Lord in history, even if she was more powerful.

TK has never really been effective as a killing tool when the combatants aren't that far from each other.

Has Luke used sever Force and Force light outside DE? That was circumstantial, since Palpatine had poured 99% of his power into that Force Storm and couldn't properly defend himself. And even if Luke did succeed, what prevents Palpatine from simply willing his Force connection back?

How does Fold Space help Luke here? And besides, Palpatine also knows it.

Elaborate on "environmental hazards".

What's Luke's limit when it comes to electric judgement?

SunRazer
Jedi spirits choose not to affect their environments, but that doesn't mean they can't. We've seen it happen before.

Ursumeles

GM Yoda
Originally posted by JKBart
Valkorion

Azronger
And he killed her with Krayt's help and when (IIRC) her avatars were dying all over the galaxy. Sidious wouldn't just randomly collapse like Abeloth did.



You know, the chances of this happening are so small it's not even worth considering, really. And the same applies to Luke.



Yes, he used it to transport his consciousness from Da Soocha to Byss instantly.



And how much is a Vong Slayer's durability?

The Ellimist
Originally posted by Azronger
Yeah, he could hurt, but kill? Abeloth never pulled any specific Force techniques except lightning, so confronting her isn't the same as confronting the most verstile Sith Lord in history, even if she was more powerful.


Abeloth is so much more powerful than Sidious that the difference in "versatility" is pretty irrelevant, but for what it's worth she had those tendril things, TP, and some other moves I can't recall.

In either case, we're talking about Luke's ability to hurt Palpatine, not the reverse.



That's because combatants aren't forced to spend all their time throwing one another. But with enough fortress-dusting throws, I'm sure Luke can take out Sidious.



He's done some similar things against Abeloth. But I think DE is sufficient; it's not like Luke would've forgotten the technique.



Regardless, it shows that Luke can do it, and unless if he's criminally inept at this one particular technique for whatever reason, he's more than powerful enough relative to Sidious for it to work once he's worn Sidious down with TK + illusions + soul ripping + electric judgment.



His trachea will get snapped in the meanwhile.



He can teleport metallic objects into his guts. And yeah Palpatine can do it too; but you were asking how Luke could effect hurt him, not whether Palpatine can do anything to retaliate.




Like throwing stuff.



We don't know except that he can one-shot Slayers that aren't even supposed to be vulnerable to the Force.

I think we both agree that Luke is more powerful than Sidious, so it just comes down to whether Sidious's allegedly greater array of Force moves will make up for this; it isn't clear to me how it does. His lightning can be absorbed or deflected by Luke, his storms aren't feasible in such starting conditions, etc. Luke is also probably faster and more agile.

Deronn_solo
Valkorion should have this in the bag.

Azronger
So, the only way I can see Luke actually killing Sidious is via Sever Force. Luke isn't killing him with his array of Force powers, given this guy's Barrier showings, or it would at the very least take weeks to wear him down by bombarding him with rocks or lightning. I doubt illusions'd work either; last time it was Luke on the receiving end when it came to a battle of wills.

The only thing I'm not familiar with is Luke's supposed "soul-ripping." Anyone mind describing that in more detail?

The Ellimist
Doesn't that work both ways? I don't see Sidious killing Luke with lightning; I don't see precedent for a character overwhelming with lightning someone more powerful than them.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
This fight is too close to pick a particular victor. smilesmilesmile

Trocity
Can't pick against Luke when he's at his best.

Raptor22
Originally posted by Trocity
Can't pick against Luke when he's at his best.

Azronger
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Doesn't that work both ways? I don't see Sidious killing Luke with lightning; I don't see precedent for a character overwhelming with lightning someone more powerful than them.

But we were talking about Luke's ability to kill Palpatine, not Palpatine's ability to retaliate, weren't we?

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