When does the Banite line surpass...

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The Ellimist
In overall combative ability:

1. Obi Wan
2. Ludo Kreesh
3. Naga Sadow
4. Marka Ragnos
5. Darth Tyranus
6. KotOR Revan
7. Darth Vader
8. Darth Nihilus
9. novel Vitiate
10. SWTOR Vitiate
11. Valkorion

DarthAnt66
1-2. Darth Bane
3-10. Darth Plagueis
11. Darth Sidious

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5fts7bj-so&t=0m30s

The Ellimist
lmao

So Ludo Kreesh -> Naga Sadow is spread into like thirty sith? And yet the gap between successive ones is high enough that a sizable proportion involve the apprentice taking on the master, and winning every time.

DarthAnt66
Well, we know Tenebrous is inferior to Kanan.

And I frankly have Sadow vastly superior to Kanan.

So allow me to readjust my list: 1-10. Darth Plagueis

thumb up

JKBart
Ludo Kressh > Obi-Wan Kenobi

stopped reading there

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
10-11: Sidious (ROTJ-DE)

DarthAnt66
In all seriousness though, I can't rationalize placing Tenebrous above Vader with his failure of a rock feat. Likewise for the other great ancients. Either Bane is trash, or the gap is hilariously small.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
^
Plagueis is not > SWTOR Vitiate, my nigga. smile

DarthAnt66
Vitiate surpassed him by SoR, but otherwise I can't get around the blurb. smile

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Fuk ur blurb. smile

It lowers Revan too ya know. smilesmilesmile

DarthAnt66
I know. sad

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Since when did The Mighty Ant sacrifice Revan, rather than sacrifice to and for Revan? smile

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Since when did The Mighty Ant sacrifice Revan, rather than sacrifice to and for Revan? smile
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4l-JfD3Z1E

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Legitimately depressing. smilesmilesmilesmilesmilesmile

darthbane77
1. Obi Wan
2. Ludo Kreesh
3. Naga Sadow
4. Marka Ragnos
5. Darth Tyranus
6. KotOR Revan
7. Darth Vader
8. Darth Nihilus
9. novel Vitiate
10. SWTOR Vitiate
11. Valkorion

1-5: Bane
6-7: Plagueis
8-10:ROTS-ROTJ Sidious
11: DE Sidious, MAYBE.

Tondemonai
1: Bane
2-4: Plagueis
5: Dooku
6-8: Plagueis (I can see Nihilus' drain being something hard to counter though, if he can at all)
9: TPM Sheev
10: ROTJ Sidious
11: never smile

The Ellimist
Originally posted by JKBart
Ludo Kressh > Obi-Wan Kenobi

stopped reading there

Not necessarily, the order may not be perfect.

Everyone else's list posits that the line remained essential stable from Bane to Plagueis; if that were true, why were apprentices able to consistently best their masters in the large proportion of successions that were determined in direct combat?

Emperordmb
Damn I knew people had Bane low here... but I didn't expect them to say ****ing Ludo is above him lol

The Ellimist
lol

Tondemonai
I only put Kressh above him for the Kressh Gauntlet. But after remembering that he made it for his son, and never used it himself, I see my error. 1-2 are surpassed by Bane.

darthbane77
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Vitiate surpassed him by SoR, but otherwise I can't get around the blurb. smile What blurb?

SunRazer
"Darth Plagueis was the most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived..."

MythLord
Originally posted by The Ellimist
1. Obi Wan

Bane.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
2. Ludo Kreesh

Bane.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
3. Naga Sadow

Bane.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
4. Marka Ragnos

Bane, or Zannah.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
5. Darth Tyranus

Bane, or Zannah.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
6. KotOR Revan

Bane.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
7. Darth Vader

Bane, or Zannah.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
8. Darth Nihilus

Ehhhh... Tricky.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
9. novel Vitiate

Teneb, or Hego.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
10. SWTOR Vitiate

Plagueis.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
11. Valkorion

Palpatine.

SunRazer
Bane or Zannah > Vader in power? How so?

MythLord
Outweighing a planetary nexus, and being canonically ahead of past Sith impresses me more than most of Vader's feats and hype, tbh.

However, I'm uncertain about Bane's and Zannah's placing lately. Might need to think on it.

SunRazer
Canonically ahead of Brotherhood of the Sith, which my pinky is.

Outweighing the nexus doesn't justify being above Vader whatsoever.

The Ellimist
Where does it say he was more powerful than the entire planetary nexus combined?

MythLord
Originally posted by SunRazer
Canonically ahead of Brotherhood of the Sith, which my pinky is.

Outweighing the nexus doesn't justify being above Vader whatsoever.

So far, there's no proof it's just the Brotherhood Sith; it's all past Sith in general. Even disregarding that, there's a quote that says PoD Bane is the most powerful Sith in centuries, which puts him above Rivan(who's holocron was causing tremours in the Force and re-awakening city-wide nexuses), Odion(who can mentally influence dozens of Sith, has the Force reserves to survive getting burned alive), Daiman(who can kill Sith with lightning), Kaox Krul(who pulls a Darth Maul and leaves behind a potent nexus near a lake he was fighting on), etc.

And why not? I don't recall Vader being more potent than a planet-razing source of power.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Where does it say he was more powerful than the entire planetary nexus combined?

Cognus notes a subdued trace of Bane's presence is the darkest/most potent thing she's ever sensed, and she was sensing the nexus of Ambria prior to that.

The Ellimist
I'd interpret that to mean that Bane's signature is more concentrated than the nexus, which is spread across an entire planet. It's not like she's comparing him to, say, the totality of all Force signatures she can ever sense.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by MythLord
Outweighing a planetary nexus, and being canonically ahead of past Sith impresses me more than most of Vader's feats and hype, tbh.

However, I'm uncertain about Bane's and Zannah's placing lately. Might need to think on it. You're trolling right?Originally posted by MythLord
Even disregarding that, there's a quote that says PoD Bane is the most powerful Sith in centuries, which puts him above Rivan(who's holocron was causing tremours in the Force and re-awakening city-wide nexuses), Odion(who can mentally influence dozens of Sith, has the Force reserves to survive getting burned alive), Daiman(who can kill Sith with lightning), Kaox Krul(who pulls a Darth Maul and leaves behind a potent nexus near a lake he was fighting on), etc. How does that put him above Vader in the slightest? confused

SunRazer
Who cares about tremors in the Force? Savage going to meet Maul caused tremors. Malak approaching the Leivathan generated similar reverberations. As for holocrons, Naga Sadow's holocron alone was capable of killing Force sensitives on its own merits. Rivan's nothing special.

Surviving being burnt alive is more than just Force reserves, and Odion's purported TP feat is worse than Kaan's, whom we already know Bane to be stronger than.

Daiman can kill Sith with Lightning? Vader's far more powerful than beings who can disintegrate Inquisitors.

Kaox Krul can pull off a Maw, big deal.

Vader's infinitely beyond any of that. And you're doing Bane a disservice by scaling him off such routine showings as opposed to something better.

Also, Ellimist is kind of right regarding the nexus.

Beniboybling
Myth's arguments are an insult to Vader and Bane alike yeah. smile

Azronger
Originally posted by The Ellimist
In overall combative ability:

1. Obi Wan
2. Ludo Kreesh
3. Naga Sadow
4. Marka Ragnos
5. Darth Tyranus
6. KotOR Revan
7. Darth Vader
8. Darth Nihilus
9. novel Vitiate
10. SWTOR Vitiate
11. Valkorion

1. Bane
2. Bane
3. Bane
4. Bane
5. Zannah
6. Cognus(?)
7. Zannah
8. Tenebrous(?)
9. Bane
10. Tenebrous(?)
11. Plagueis

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Your esteem for Vitiate pre-KOTFE is stunningly low.

Deronn_solo
Originally posted by MythLord
Outweighing a planetary nexus, and being canonically ahead of past Sith impresses me more than most of Vader's feats and

Damn, how far you've fallen with this trite you call an argument, lmao.

Emperordmb
Originally posted by The Ellimist
I'd interpret that to mean that Bane's signature is more concentrated than the nexus, which is spread across an entire planet. It's not like she's comparing him to, say, the totality of all Force signatures she can ever sense.
When spread out across an entire planet it devastated all life on said planet, and it was concentrated to a single lake, so even if you are talking concentration it's still pretty damn insanely concentrated, especially considering it was POD Bane, and an incarnation of Zannah that a non-orbalisk ROT Bane could've killed by snapping her neck with TK.

MythLord
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Damn, how far you've fallen with this trite you call an argument, lmao.

I dunno... I am curious; did Vader ever actually leave that massive a nexus? I recall his clone causing a small nexus ala Maul, and him leaving a small nexus on his burial site. That's about it.

Azronger
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Your esteem for Vitiate pre-KOTFE is stunningly low.

Yeah, he's kinda shit.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by Emperordmb
When spread out across an entire planet it devastated all life on said planet, and it was concentrated to a single lake, so even if you are talking concentration it's still pretty damn insanely concentrated, especially considering it was POD Bane, and an incarnation of Zannah that a non-orbalisk ROT Bane could've killed by snapping her neck with TK. The energy that devastated the planet, devastated the planet, was was left was a residue. ermOriginally posted by MythLord
I dunno... I am curious; did Vader ever actually leave that massive a nexus? I recall his clone causing a small nexus ala Maul, and him leaving a small nexus on his burial site. That's about it. Vader died a lightsider. What nexus did Bane leave when he died?

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by Azronger
Yeah, he's kinda shit.

You're gonna have to explain that one. smile

Emperordmb
Originally posted by Beniboybling
The energy that devastated the planet, devastated the planet, was was left was a residue. ermVader died a lightsider. What nexus did Bane leave when he died?
This residue was enough to twist any life there from that point on... which is more than I can say for say Lehon or Dxun.

Beniboybling
Do you have a source on that? I thought all the life was devastated. mmm

Deronn_solo
Originally posted by MythLord
I dunno... I am curious; did Vader ever actually leave that massive a nexus? I recall his clone causing a small nexus ala Maul, and him leaving a small nexus on his burial site. That's about it.

Since he died a lightsider, his suit alone left a mini-nexus, not the totality of his dark side presence. I also recall his castle on Vjun being a potent nexus, presumingly from Vader's prolonged presence. The castle was such a powerful nexus that it's power could be felt from orbit, and Tavion thought it power worthy enough to be drained to resurrect the great Marka Ragnos.

Fated Xtasy
And apparently Luke considered Bespin a nexus of power too btw. Considering the only major thing to happen there with involved Vader one could say Vader left a nexus there too?

Deronn_solo
It's plausible and logical, yes.

Azronger
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
You're gonna have to explain that one. smile

If a bunch of high tier fodder were walking through his Force Lightning Storm, I'm pretty sure most Bane/Dooku tiers would have no issue with that. He is then helpless in a melee.

Revan was just an idiot when he threw his lightsaber aside.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by Azronger
If a bunch of high tier fodder were walking through his Force Lightning Storm, I'm pretty sure most Bane/Dooku tiers would have no issue with that. He is then helpless in a melee.

Revan was just an idiot when he threw his lightsaber aside.

Vitiate wasn't trying to kill them, hence why they weren't fried instantly, lol. I'm not sure how Vitiate easily defeating five (if you count Kira) of the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy while holding back is a mark against him.

Looking at the Revan Novel, we see Nyriss's charged lightning storm being capable of unleashing greater power than what someone like Dooku has been shown to unleash with his lightning, (being able to "incinerate" Meetra and Scourge, and instantly ashing herself, even while having erected a force barrier,) and Revan was able to "easily" deflect such an attack. If someone like Dooku tried what Revan was able to do easily, he would have been completely incinerated. When Revan goes up against Vitiate, however, the former is instantaneously overwhelmed by Vitiate's full power lightning storm. Revan threw away his lightsaber because, quite frankly, it wouldn't have done shit against Vitiate's attack.

Then we've got the various claims of Vitiate's power from numerous sources in SOR stating that the Dread Masters are insignificant compared to Vitiate, that Vitiate is far more powerful than Revan or anyone else in the Galaxy, etc.

That's a huge gap of power between someone like Dooku and someone like Vitiate, lol.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
If someone like Dooku tried what Revan was able to do easily, he would have been completely incinerated.Lmao.

darthbane77
Originally posted by SunRazer
"Darth Plagueis was the most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived..." Ah OK, I remember that. I don't really take back cover blurbs into consideration if they don;t have feats that prove it. So as far as I'm concerned, Plagueis is definitely up there; but it's safe to say (for a lot of people anyway) that at least Vitiate was > Plagueis.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Lmao.

You think Dooku could have barehanded Nyriss's FLS and redirected it back at her?

Beniboybling
Probably, given he's more powerful than her. He certainly wouldn't have been incinerated, lawls.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Fair enough on him not necessarily getting incinerated, but IMO he wouldn't be able to barehand deflect it at all, much less with ease like Revan did.

Emperordmb
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Do you have a source on that? I thought all the life was devastated. mmm
Actually come to think of it, the Huntress would've perceived the obelisk in her visions too, which is where all the dark side energy was contained before it was released on the planet, so how residuey it was doesn't even matter, and the concentration of the obelisk would've been even greater than Lake Naath.

Beniboybling
Wait her experience of Ambria consisted of a vision? Lmao.

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Fair enough on him not necessarily getting incinerated, but IMO he wouldn't be able to barehand deflect it at all, much less with ease like Revan did.

He deflected the lightning Yoda sent at him which presumably would have been more powerful then the lightning Dooku sent at Yoda.

The Ellimist
Skillz, source for your claim that Vitiate was holding back?

TenebrousWay
1-7 - All sub Tenebrous
8-10 - All sub Plagueis
11 - Sub Sidious

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by darthbane77
Ah OK, I remember that. I don't really take back cover blurbs into consideration if they don;t have feats that prove it. So as far as I'm concerned, Plagueis is definitely up there; but it's safe to say (for a lot of people anyway) that at least Vitiate was > Plagueis.

I have the same policy. In regards to Plaguies though I view his feat of unbalancing the Force as ambiguous enough that it can be used to place him above Vitiate.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Skillz, source for your claim that Vitiate was holding back?

That he evidently didn't want to kill them. We've seen what Vitiate does to people he really wants to destroy, (Arcann, Revan, those 2 Dark Councils, Marr, etc). The impressiveness lying in the fact that even while holding back/making sure not to kill them, he still incapacitated them, "easily."

The Ellimist
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
That he evidently didn't want to kill them. We've seen what Vitiate does to people he really wants to destroy, (Arcann, Revan, those 2 Dark Councils, Marr, etc). The impressiveness lying in the fact that even while holding back/making sure not to kill them, he still incapacitated them, "easily."

Ehhhh ok. I mean, Sidious didn't want to kill Maul, but still had him throbbing on the ground with his lightning. He didn't blunt his lightning to let Maul walk through it because he didn't want to risk killing him or something.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
^I wouldn't be surprised if Sidious did such a thing, lol. Unless you're saying Sidious's full power lightning is incapable of ashing a cowering, defenseless Maul.

The Ellimist
If that's the case, Vitiate is bad at calibrating his attacks. Sidious can hold back on people and still oneshot them; the Jedi were still resisting Vitiate's power.

JKBart
1. Obi Wan - somewhere in the life of early Plagueis, not counting Tenebrous (not only easter egg character, but also too vague)
2. Ludo Kreesh - post-PoD Bane
3. Naga Sadow - RoT Bane
4. Marka Ragnos - RoT Bane
5. Darth Tyranus - somewhere in the life of early Plagueis, not counting Tenebrous (not only easter egg character, but also too vague)
6. KotOR Revan - early Plagueis
7. Darth Vader - later iteration of Plagueis
8. Darth Nihilus - later iteration of Plagueis
9. novel Vitiate - RotS Palpatine
10. SWTOR Vitiate - DE Palpatine
11. Valkorion - never

Beniboybling
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
^I wouldn't be surprised if Sidious did such a thing, lol. Unless you're saying Sidious's full power lightning is incapable of ashing a cowering, defenseless Maul. Like Valk ashed Marr amirite?

UCanShootMyNova
Ayy lmao.

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