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Sup Kotor,

It's Pai Mei for me. I just believe he's on a different level than Bruce skill wise. I understand your point about Bruce in CC, and I think there is some validity to your claims on the implications. That said, Pai Mei has VASTLY more years of experience studying MA as well as fighting. If you look at their fights, Pai Mei appears to barely try and still beat some of the best easily. Where as Bruce, in his movies, often times when he faces the best... he takes blows and sometimes repeated blows. I just can't see that with Pai Mei. Though I will say, I have more respect for Bruce in a MvF setting now since Kotor framed his argument in the other thread. He gets more respect and accolades than I originally thought.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Sup Kotor,

It's Pai Mei for me. I just believe he's on a different level than Bruce skill wise. I understand your point about Bruce in CC, and I think there is some validity to your claims on the implications. That said, Pai Mei has VASTLY more years of experience studying MA as well as fighting. If you look at their fights, Pai Mei appears to barely try and still beat some of the best easily. Where as Bruce, in his movies, often times when he faces the best... he takes blows and sometimes repeated blows. I just can't see that with Pai Mei. Though I will say, I have more respect for Bruce in a MvF setting now since Kotor framed his argument in the other thread. He gets more respect and accolades than I originally thought. Here is my case for Bruce.
Both can kill with one strike. Here is the only real advantage for Pai Mei, is that he has one weak spot which he can move at will on his Body. However, Pai Mei has been defeated by the combo of two or more techniques or arts as shown in 'Executioners from Shaolin'.

Here is Bruce advantage.
One - His art includes multiple styles that are made into his own. Pai Mei will not be able to spot an particular art and react due to his knowledge. Bruce art will pretty much be foreign to him.
Two - Bruce has shown superior speed (this cannot be denied) and strength.
Three - Bruce knowledge of different arts will allow him to use his distinct technique of noticing a weakness in whatever art Pai Mei uses and exploit that weakness to his advantage.
Four - Reaching peak chi as displayed in CC and reference in later movies (last dragon as the glow). *Other versions of Bruce Movie CC they are called lose versions of that story since the main character is no where near the peak abilities displayed by Bruce and minor story differences.

We can argue their opponents abilities and skills as well.

I couldn't disagree with some of what you said here. I would not say in the least Bruce has better speed feats. In fact, Pai Mei has the superior feats when you look at it as a whole.

Example, Pai Mei move where he stands on the sword as she tries to impale him. This would take incredible speed and agility to accomplish. In fact, superhuman speed and agility. When you figure, that the Bride is very skilled herself and fast. She also has good feats of speed. Yet, she couldn't land a single blow on him.

You must remember, being hit is indicative of not being fast enough to move out of the way or block. Pai Mei, was never hit by her... whether she was armed or unarmed. Bruce, in all his major fights... took blows... repeated blows. That is indicative of inferior speed... not greater speed. Even Pai Mei plucking out the eye... to a trained very fast deadly assassin... you'd have to be incredible fast to have them to be able to do a thing about it. He still did. Speed goes to Pai Mei.

Again strength... I'm not sure why you're saying this... Pai was CASUALLY tossing around the Bride as if she was a sack of potatoes. To say nothing of, his clearly superior understanding of pressure points means, he doesn't need to be stronger... he can simply apply a pressure hold and they are done.

Also, you reference a fight which Pai Mei was clearly winning and his superior. He was toying with the boy and doing a monologue throughout. I would hardly call that a sign of him being inferior. More like, he was handicapped by plot and CIS. The good guy, will usually always win. He did. Doesn't mean he was better.

You also can't get around the fact that Pai Mei has VASTLY more experience fighting and acquiring knowledge compared to Bruce. Nobody even knows how old he is. He could be 1000 years old some source say. He experience and knowledge gained makes Bruce look like a child.

As you also indicate... he can move around the weak spot to his choosing. Bruce will have no idea what that spot will even be nor that he even has a weak spot. He'll just assume he can try and punch him and KO him... He'll be sadly mistaken.

It comes down to this... Pai Mei has looked superior to Bruce when dealing with foes. He barely tries, and they do nothing. Bruce has to work for his most times.

Psi Mei had supernatural feats and would win, IMO.

Originally posted by Impediment
Psi Mei had supernatural feats and would win, IMO. And Bruce doesn't?

Hey Kotor,

Some clips before we begin...

Notice how in this first clip, the guy challenging Pai Mei, has to go throw expert sword fighters at the same time. They are clearly very skilled, and imo, display better skill than the sword fighter Bruce beat. He's able to deal with them pretty casually. Yet when facing Pai Mei, he lands almost nothing of consequence. In fact Pai Mei, turns is back to him multiple times and still casually blocks his shots. You'll also notice how far Pai Mei sends him flying with his blows. Hey even dislodges a giant rock statue with a punch. Clearly indicative of strength and striking power.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwDdY4vgBZ0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQLgp8trSDc

Look at this expanded version of Kill Bill. Notice the move where Pai Mei throws a guy with only his fingertips like 10 feet in the air and way. Stamp 3:07

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgL-mBIIFpk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx95slcpdR0

I view those scenes where he kind of get hits because he let's them hit him. For example his groin move is legendary. He allows people to hit him there. Same with his neck. His done this is repeated movies. He also lets them hit him in the chest to prove they can do nothing to him. He tells them so. In stark contrast, Bruce gets hit and it can leave a giant foot print on his chest... or draw blood. It looks cool when Bruce wipes the blood from his fast and licks it and does his pose... but he was still hit and hurt by the blow. When people land on Pai Mei it's mostly because he allows it and it does nothing to him. Nothing.

Strength I just can't see as equal though. Bruce is strong, but Pai Mei to me is clearly stronger. Bruce has no moves that can compare to Pai Mei casually tossint people with fingers. At the very least, we can say Pai Mei's striking power is vastly superior. He was sending people flying 20 feet with casually blows. Not to mention killing a whole bunch of trained Shaolin monks and killing them with blows. Most of them.

I understand what you're saying about Bruce's style being adaptive. This is true, and plus for him in movie debates and real life fights. However, I think you underestimate Pai Mei knowledge. For example, in Kill Bill, he explicitly states to known multiple style... he said your tiger claw can't compare with my eagle claw. Clearly indicating he knows both very well and an expert. He even makes fun of her tiger claw. So we can clearly see, he knows multiple styles and has mastered them.

I also enjoyed the clips you posted Kotor, I hadn't seen those in a little bit. As I said, Bruce is impressive, and better than I remember. To me though, Pai Mei stinks of Superhuman, and as good as Bruce is, in most of his movies I never really got the same feel. To me that is the difference.

Pai Mei stomps

Movie Bruce Lee vs Beatrix is more competitive.

Originally posted by Kotor3
And Bruce doesn't?

No, he doesn't. Bruce never stood on the end of a sword.

Originally posted by Impediment
No, he doesn't. Bruce never stood on the end of a sword. No but he has move his arms so fast it seems like he had multiple.

Pai Mei's punches go through 2" wood planks like styrofoam and on top of that has a legit Hokuto shinken death touch. He can also seemingly control his mass(?) and extend his natural lifespan. He's superhuman

Hey Kotor,

I think you need to review the clips again bud. You said those swordfighters don't look more skilled? They look vastly superior in my eyes. They aren't just dancing around... look at all the sword thrusts and strikes they throw from all directions. I agree that Bruce fight was probably more realistic, but that is about as much as I would say. The others clearly displayed more skill, and frankly, by a good margin.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Hey Kotor,

I think you need to review the clips again bud. You said those swordfighters don't look more skilled? They look vastly superior in my eyes. They aren't just dancing around... look at all the sword thrusts and strikes they throw from all directions. I agree that Bruce fight was probably more realistic, but that is about as much as I would say. The others clearly displayed more skill, and frankly, by a good margin. Fair enough. As I stated it is all perception. That is why I provided the other clip of a person fighting a swordsman with no weapons.

I've seen those movies and others like that plenty of times. That is why Bruce Lee films and style of fighting were so highly praised. Those other films were more like dance moves not real fighting.

But I will say this. Bruce styles of film were never like those and probably would not have been had he not die so young.

Last thing I will say is that what separates Bruce from characters portrayed by Chuck, Wesley, Jackie, Jason S (transporter), Van D, Jet Li, etc. is that no regular only the top masters could take a hit from him (this is besides his speed and strength). This is clearly seen in his films were many thugs and regular fighters were taken out with one hit.

I understand we are not going to agree but I believe there is ample proof from Bruce films that the characters he portrayed were far from anything normal from a human and martial artist prospective.

Enjoyed the discussion KuRuPT Thanosi!

Originally posted by psycho gundam
Pai Mei's punches go through 2" wood planks like styrofoam and on top of that has a legit Hokuto shinken death touch. He can also seemingly control his mass(?) and extend his natural lifespan. He's superhuman Bruce response to this: "Boards don't hit back".