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I used to be Catholic, but I'm not anymore. Instead I'm a Christian who doesn't really have that much faith in a specific church, or that the Bible is any more perfect than the human hands that wrote it, or that man's understanding of God or morality will ever be 100% perfect, or that hell is a thing (I believe that the imperfections of the world exist so this imperfection can be used to forge us as beings with our own individuality, emerging from a state of nonexistence through birth into a state of imperfect existence where we evolve as individuals and progress the world and our fellow man, through death into a period of purgatory where we receive fitting but not eternal punishment to complete the process of evolution where we reach heaven, a state of perfect existence). What I believe in is the Holy Trinity (ie. the Father, the Son, and the Holy spirit), and try to understand it based on my experiences in the world and the philosophical understanding those have lead me to.

I'm making this thread because in my religious education class that I used to go to at my old church, the teachers said the Holy Spirit was something impossible to understand and that it was a mystery and ironically enough, despite rejecting a lot of my old beliefs since they didn't make much sense to me, the Holy Spirit is something that I actually understand.

My belief in God stems from the belief that a higher power has to exist beyond the rules of our universe to have established the existence and purpose of those rules and universe, and that such a power wouldn't need something to create it as it would fall beyond deterministic principal. That doesn't prove the nature of said higher power (and having a conversation with an atheist friend of mine, I realized from an atheist point of view that higher power could very well be chance).

Recently, I had a few experiences with psychedelics that gave me some philosophical revelations about the nature of the universe, humanity, and progress, and ultimately became a better person because of those experiences. Those experiences were experiences of deeper connection with myself and the outside world, I realized that the universe itself was defined by connection (scientific law, change, power, knowledge, time, space, etc.), and that connection is central to human progress in the sense that progress arises from balancing individuality and conformity (the two main elements that seem to make up connection to me) and from the motivation of love (which is emotional connection). As such from my understanding of connection as this ubiquitous thing that defines the universe, I believe that this higher power is a being embodying connection, and the Holy Trinity to me makes since in that light and is something I have faith in.

The Holy Trinity to me seems to perfectly embody this connection in the sense that connection on such a level relates to power, understanding, and love, hence the omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent nature people tend to describe God with. It also perfectly relates to connection with mankind in the sense that God created us as the Father, permeates us as the Holy Spirit, and lived as one of us as Jesus (the self sacrifice also being a pure representation of God's loving nature). Then the Trinity represents connection within itself as a balance between individuality as it is three individual aspects conforming to one nature.

Idk, I just found it really ironic that the thing my Religious Education teachers told me I couldn't ever understand is the thing that ended up making the most sense to me.

Have any of you ever had similar thoughts or other interesting thoughts on the nature of the Holy Trinity?

I guess here is my question about this "sacrifice" God made. If God is omnipotent, he can't ever truly die. If Jesus is indeed God in human form, what specifically did God give up? His human form was '"dead" for a few days, and then rose again. Then he chose to ascend to heaven. This is God we're talking about, nothing could have actually stopped him from just continuing to walk among us after he resurrected.

When you look at it that way, isn't it odd that we are expected to be grateful for this?

Originally posted by Surtur
I guess here is my question about this "sacrifice" God made. If God is omnipotent, he can't ever truly die. If Jesus is indeed God in human form, what specifically did God give up? His human form was '"dead" for a few days, and then rose again. Then he chose to ascend to heaven. This is God we're talking about, nothing could have actually stopped him from just continuing to walk among us after he resurrected.

When you look at it that way, isn't it odd that we are expected to be grateful for this?
While I don't believe humans get sent to Hell, I believe that Jesus did for that period of time was subjected to that disconnection and suffering for that period of time.

Feel free to say what you want because I'm not some censoring *******, but I'd rather hear more insight related to the question itself than the same old "God exists, no he doesn't, yes he does" argument that we've all been in and gone over too many times to count.

We don't have to debate over whether or not God exists lol. For the sake of argument we are assuming he does. So why is a few days of suffering a big deal for an immortal cosmic being?

You're asking if the trinity makes sense, and I'm saying that at least one aspect of it doesn't make sense to me.

Fair enough.

But anyways beyond that, you're basically taking what I consider the best approach to religion(if one is going to be religious at all). Recognizing there might not be a specific intelligence behind this, while at the same time still feeling there is something out there intangible that connects us all.

Just like I don't believe any being specifically made the universe, but I do believe in a sort of afterlife(just not specifically a good and bad after life). I do believe other planes exist, etc.

Originally posted by Surtur
I guess here is my question about this "sacrifice" God made. If God is omnipotent, he can't ever truly die. If Jesus is indeed God in human form, what specifically did God give up? His human form was '"dead" for a few days, and then rose again. Then he chose to ascend to heaven. This is God we're talking about, nothing could have actually stopped him from just continuing to walk among us after he resurrected.

When you look at it that way, isn't it odd that we are expected to be grateful for this?

Not really. The question begs itself, even if you look at it that way, "Why would God go through even that much trouble on behalf of ... ?

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Not really. The question begs itself, even if you look at it that way, "Why would God go through even that much trouble on behalf of ... ?

You can get rid of that part then, and just tell me what exactly he sacrificed for us, and what exactly he lost, besides a few days?

Mick Foley has probably suffered more physical pain than Jesus ever did.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I used to be Catholic, but I'm not anymore. Instead I'm a Christian who doesn't really have that much faith in a specific church, or that the Bible is any more perfect than the human hands that wrote it Not a Christian so I won't comment on the topic, but this description here is my favourite kind of Christian. We need more of this.

Its never really made sense to me.
I didnt stay Catholic long enough to have it properly explained when i was a kid, and didnt have any interest in learning as a grown up.

Doesnt mean i dont believe in God, i just dont understand all the Bible stories.

I have an uncle whose a priest and some great aunts who are nuns, and they're amazing people because they focus much more on love than sin, and don't believe that things like homosexuality are evil, or that nonbelievers go to Hell.

I'm proud of my large basically entire Christian family (extended, I'm an only child), because they are not prideful and use their beliefs to try and out themselves on pedestals (pride makes the worst atheists and religious people), and their focus is on love and trying to be a better person. They don't fall into the trap of pride, and they use religion the way it's meant to be used.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I have an uncle whose a priest and some great aunts who are nuns, and they're amazing people because they focus much more on love than sin, and don't believe that things like homosexuality are evil, or that nonbelievers go to Hell.


This is true and it is one of the goods things about this particular faith, and it is one of the reason I dislike it whenever Islam is brought up in comparison.

The church has at least somewhat changed with the times. Think about it though: there was a time when these people would want to kill you for believing in science. Now? We have VATICAN scientists. Hell, the church has had friggin gatherings just to discuss aliens lol. They have come out and said aliens don't disprove God.

A lot of them accept this whole "evolution" thing as well.

Oh yeah. I never really understood the whole anti-evolution thing anyways. If you ask me, God's creation being something that continually improves upon itself is way more a miracle than God creating something stagnant.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Oh yeah. I never really understood the whole anti-evolution thing anyways. If you ask me, God's creation being something that continually improves upon itself is way more a miracle than God creating something stagnant.

Exactly, who wouldn't want to create life with the ability to adapt and improve? It increases the chances something will thrive.

Some religious people do wrongly feel that being able to explain things negates the idea of God, even though it would make more sense to believe it is God's plan that we establish an understanding of the universe via science and math.

But basically a lot of scientists today(potentially a majority) really just use religion for spiritual purposes as opposed to specifically believing in any deity. I at least hope that if religion never goes away...they all end up adopting similar practices.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Oh yeah. I never really understood the whole anti-evolution thing anyways. If you ask me, God's creation being something that continually improves upon itself is way more a miracle than God creating something stagnant.
Isn't that like a standard view in mainstream Christianity?

Originally posted by Surtur
Some religious people do wrongly feel that being able to explain things negates the idea of God, even though it would make more sense to believe it is God's plan that we establish an understanding of the universe via science and math.
.
Isn't that like a standard view in mainstream Christianity?

It doesn't make sense. It's like they pussy foot around the idea in the Nt.

Originally posted by Stigma



Isn't that like a standard view in mainstream Christianity?

I don't know. I do know that certainly wasn't the case the last time I was in high school. I went to a catholic grammar school and high school, graduated in 2004.

It was very weird though because some of their beliefs there were a lot more modern, and yet others just seemed outright Old Testament style.

To give one specific example from my own experience in high school, their view on drugs was actually very modern, especially their views on marijuana and alcohol. On the other hand their views on homosexuality were outright disturbing. I would almost characterize some of the Brothers views on homosexuality as extreme for the time period.

Originally posted by Surtur
We don't have to debate over whether or not God exists lol. For the sake of argument we are assuming he does. So why is a few days of suffering a big deal for an immortal cosmic being?
I had another LSD trip a day or two ago, it was mostly good, but I experienced a period of disconnection, the raw loneliness, fear, guilt, self loathing. I questioned why I even deserved to exist when my life is an imposition on so many others. I ultimately worked through it, but to me that seemed like the closest thing to Hell I've ever experienced, that raw disconnection.

I don't believe God subjects humans to Hell, but I believe when Jesus died he experienced that, perhaps as a way to truly experience and understand what humans go through, to connect to us through that empathy, that first-hand suffering of everything we go through in this imperfect world. To me, that kind of sacrifice for such a being, subjecting himself to disconnection, something God could've just existed eternally without ever feeling, is a pretty meaningful sacrifice.
Originally posted by Surtur
But anyways beyond that, you're basically taking what I consider the best approach to religion(if one is going to be religious at all). Recognizing there might not be a specific intelligence behind this, while at the same time still feeling there is something out there intangible that connects us all.

Just like I don't believe any being specifically made the universe, but I do believe in a sort of afterlife(just not specifically a good and bad after life). I do believe other planes exist, etc.
And you're taking what I believe to be the best approach to atheism, still pondering spirituality despite a lack of belief in God.

IMO the worst mistake anyone can make with how they view the world is to use it in an arrogant way, instead of trying to help others using that point of view to try and put themselves over others. But aside from that more specific to each group, too many religious people believe something without trying to understand it, and too many atheists just abandon spirituality altogether.

Nope.

Well, first things first: does The Bible proclaim that God is a Trinity? The answer is yes, Christianity is Triune Monotheistic (3-in-1, 1 God):

- 1 John 5:7 - "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
- Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8 teaches there is only One God according to The Bible (among many other verses).
- The Father is called God (Ephesians 4:6; 1 John 3:1).
- Jesus is called God (John 1:1,14).
- The Holy Spirit is called God (Acts 5:1-4).

So, God is triune in nature 3 distinct personalities that comprise 1 God: The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit. According to The Bible, human beings are triune in nature as well: soul, spirit, and body (Hebrews 4:12).

Another analogy: thank The Lord, I'm a father, and I interact a certain way with my children. I'm also a husband, and I interact a certain way with my wife. I'm also a son, and I interact a certain way with my dad. Yet I'm still me: I don't lose some of who I truly am because I am a dad, husband, son, employee, church member, weightlifter, etc. I'm 100% me, and still fulfill all those roles.

Trinity is wrong... there is a Godhead but the term "Trinity" means the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all equal in power and authority - which is wrong in the Bible

* the Father - greater than the Son (John 14:28) and greater than all (John 10:29)

* the Son - second-in-command

* the Holy Spirit - He was sent forth by the Father and Son, Biblical logic states - he that is sent, is not greater than he that sent him (John 13:16)