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I found some new quotes concerning Obi-Wan and Grievous.





Both quotes are from Fact File 39 and 69

A nice mess of contradictions you have there.

I assume these are from the new Fact File? If so, good wank for Grievous.

He needs it.

The first one is consistent with Kenobi/Soresu fighting better in close/tight quarters.

Yeah they are from the new fact files. Indeed, it confirms kind of Grievous = Obi-Wan, even in RotS.

I don't see that at all, both confirm Kenobi as the superior fighter.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
I don't see that at all, both confirm Kenobi as the superior fighter.

Not in pure skill, he defeated Grievous by preventing him from using his usual fighting style so that's more in line with tactical ability.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Not in pure skill, he defeated Grievous by preventing him from using his usual fighting style so that's more in line with tactical ability.

According to the first quote, which distinctly lacks any mention of their parity in skill beforehand. Which leaves ambiguity of whether or not he would have defeated/stalemated him in an open space. For that, we refer to a list of Kenobi's superior feats - asusming this is Canon only; it's confirmed the new fact files do not deal in Legends - where Kenobi is Grevious' better.

The second quote just states that they clashed before and were equals, but that Kenobi could defeat him in ROTS.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
According to the first quote, which distinctly lacks any mention of their parity in skill beforehand. Which leaves ambiguity of whether or not he would have defeated/stalemated him in an open space. For that, we refer to a list of Kenobi's superior feats - asusming this is Canon only; it's confirmed the new fact files do not deal in Legends - where Kenobi is Grevious' better.

The second quote confirms that prior to their RotS duel both Obi-Wan and Grievous were almost perfect equals so I doubt that Obi-Wan would've suddenly surpassed him noticeably (especially since there is no evidence which points to that and if Kenobi couldn't outgrow Grievous over the entire CW he sure as hell isn't going to do it in a matter of months). Which evidence do you have that Kenobi's Grievous' better in Legends? Not to mention that Legends has to accept the movies (and anythings surrounding it) for continuity.



It says that Kenobi eventually learned to defeat him which points at a specific increase of knowledge, which aligns with the first quote (using the environment to prevent Grievous from using his normal fighting style).

@darthduelist,

1) Yes, It seems could be interpreted as consistent with one another

2) The Fact file is referring to canon content only, which was confirmed by Ant.

3) You misunderstand, Legends Grievous actually has a few things going for him that his canon counterpart does not. For example, the UBER strike team pissant on Hypori (OCW) that involved several council masters noted to be the best in their day, a fairly protracted duel where the cyborg was disadvantaged against Windu and frequently pushing Dooku to his limits in spars, the latter having to keep duelling secrets from him as a failsafe (Labyrinth of Evil) . Canon Grievous has none of these grand achievements, and while Legends content considers the movie and parts of TCW that aren't contradicted, canon content does not consider Legends. Obi Wars achievements supersede Grievous in canon by and his low end showings aren't as embarrassing.

What Canon fact files are these?

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
The Fact file is referring to canon content only, which was confirmed by Ant.

Ant's quote is obviously wrong, because whoever answered it must've misinterpreted the question.

The new, relaunched Fact Files detail the rise of Prince Xizor, the story of Tyvokka and the Star Hyperspace War, the life of Darth Bane as detailed in Jedi vs. Sith, Rule of Two and Dynasty of Evil, the conquest of Exar Kun, etc.

All those comics/novel officially have the Legends banner:

http://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/5508456-legends+1.jpg

http://static4.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/5508457-legends+2.jpg

http://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/5508458-legends+3.jpg

http://static6.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/5508459-legends+4.png

http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/5508460-legends+5.png

You can argue the Fact Files are composite, and can be referred to both continuities if there's not a contradiction in terms of timeline and events.

Yes Ant is not a Canon source people.

Originally posted by MythLord
Ant's quote is obviously wrong, because whoever answered it must've misinterpreted the question.

The new, relaunched Fact Files detail the rise of Prince Xizor, the story of Tyvokka and the Star Hyperspace War, the life of Darth Bane as detailed in Jedi vs. Sith, Rule of Two and Dynasty of Evil, the conquest of Exar Kun, etc.

All those comics/novel officially have the Legends banner:

http://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/5508456-legends+1.jpg

http://static4.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/5508457-legends+2.jpg

http://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/5508458-legends+3.jpg

http://static6.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/5508459-legends+4.png

http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/5508460-legends+5.png

You can argue the Fact Files are composite, and can be referred to both continuities if there's not a contradiction in terms of timeline and events.

There's no contradiction here, this simply means the content aggregators saw various stories in Legends and decided to include them in the book. It's just a case of recycling content that was already used - for example; what they're doing with Thrawn now. That does not mean, however, that the book is considering all Legends Content and especially the quotes that come from issue 69, which came after the content split.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
There's no contradiction here, this simply means the content aggregators saw various stories in Legends and decided to include them in the book. It's just a case of recycling content that was already used - for example; what they're doing with Thrawn now. That does not mean, however, that the book is considering all Legends Content and especially the quotes that come from issue 69, which came after the content split.

But if the Fact File is "canon only", then they'd inadvertantly canonize it and go against what LucasArts, now Disney, have done to the continuity.

It causes too many mental fook ups. Just think of the Fact File as composite, or apply the sections about the EU stories to the EU, the canon stories to Canon and be done with it.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
What Canon fact files are these?

39 (ironically the fact file they were working on when the takeover was announced ) and 69 (quote 2).

Originally posted by MythLord
But if the Fact File is "canon only", then they'd inadvertantly canonize it and go against what LucasArts, now Disney, have done to the continuity.

It causes too many mental fook ups. Just think of the Fact File as composite, or apply the sections about the EU stories to the EU, the canon stories to Canon and be done with it.

Finally someone who understands it, it's completely retarded to assume that an entire Legends article would refer to canon.

Originally posted by MythLord
The new, relaunched Fact Files detail the rise of Prince Xizor, the story of Tyvokka and the Star Hyperspace War, the life of Darth Bane as detailed in Jedi vs. Sith, Rule of Two and Dynasty of Evil, the conquest of Exar Kun, etc.Can you be specific on which issues these are from? Because it appears a lot of the Fact File was written before the Canon/Legends split.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Can you be specific on which issues these are from? Because it appears a lot of the Fact File was written before the Canon/Legends split.

I don't remember specifically, but if I was to guess:

Issue 70-something had Xizor in it, issue 54 or 64 had Bane, issue 50 had Tyvokka, issue 37 or so detailed the events of Asajj's and Tyranus' meeting on Rattatak, and there's probably some other stuff that I'm forgetting.

Yeah its not Canon

Originally posted by MythLord
But if the Fact File is "canon only", then they'd inadvertantly canonize it and go against what LucasArts, now Disney, have done to the continuity.

It causes too many mental fook ups. Just think of the Fact File as composite, or apply the sections about the EU stories to the EU, the canon stories to Canon and be done with it.

No, I'm sorry, whatever confusion based around the conundrum of continuities has been cleared up by that quote, any reference to older material is simply a case of the writers nicking content to pad out the history sections of canon - which is what they've been doing since the split; ie Malchor being home of the Sith in Rebels. That does not mean they're considering everything that occurred in Legends or that it's composite.

Nice find DD

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
No, I'm sorry, whatever confusion based around the conundrum of continuities has been cleared up by that quote, any reference to older material is simply a case of the writers nicking content to pad out the history sections of canon - which is what they've been doing since the split; ie Malchor being home of the Sith in Rebels. That does not mean they're considering everything that occurred in Legends or that it's composite. There are zero instances of Legends material being copied exactly across into Canon, and none where it contradicts existing continuity.

So no.

The smart approach is probably to simply consider the Legends articles Legends, and the Canon articles Canon. Maybe.

Yeah sure.

He's and equal with Obi-Wan, yet can't beat Ventress or Fisto, kek.

Fisto was probably better than Kenobi as of TCW S1 and against Ventress he fought her on a dark side nexus and with a sloppy technique.

On the other hand, Kenobi never managed to overcome Grievous in sabers until RotS. It functions.

@Ziggy

It's not just nicking content, it's directly copying the story onto the issue, thus canonizing it.

If this is the case, Exar Kun, Darth Bane, Tyvokka, and Prince Xizor are all Canon and so are their stories, yet the publishments to these stories all have them as "Legends".

It's not that hard to grasp, either Fact File went against Disney and canonized a good deal of the EU, or it's Composite.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Fisto was probably better than Kenobi as of TCW S1 and against Ventress he fought her on a dark side nexus and with a sloppy technique.

On the other hand, Kenobi never managed to overcome Grievous in sabers until RotS. It functions.

A good explanation for the Fisto case is that he was considered "in no shape to fight" by his medical droid (since he had just been reconstructed).

Nah, Fisto is just better.

Doubt it.

He was in Legends, what's changed?

he was superior to very early CW Obi-Wan in Legends while Season 1 already begins several months in the CW. On the other hand, there is no canon quote or indication that Obi-Wan did develop massively during TCW contary to Legends.

Several months into the Clone Wars is pretty early on, and on that second point you'll find few who agree.

More to the point, what feats does TCW Kenobi have at this point that prove he's better? Getting trashed by Dooku?

Grievous improved throughout TCW due to his training under Dooku.

Other question, did Dathomir amp Ventress during her duel with Grievous?

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Other question, did Dathomir amp Ventress during her duel with Grievous?


Should have done. But Filoni's commentary just puts her above Grievous regardless.

commentary?

Originally posted by MythLord
@Ziggy

It's not just nicking content, it's directly copying the story onto the issue, thus canonizing it.

What's your point? They have complete agency to canonize whatever they want. But unless, they're literally reprinting issues of comics or 300 page novels into those Fact Files, they're not directly copying anything. There are tons of details left out of those stories that are all left up up interpretation, and they can afford to recycle those stories for the purposes because it isn't contradicting any of the material disney released - Rebels, the new films or TCW.



A good deal is actually a very thin slice when you consider just how much content has been ejaculated out within a forty year time period. And how is this going against Disney? I'm pretty sure Ant's email response said they were going to pay tribute to things in the Old continuity, by including it in the canon Fact File, until you can prove otherwise, I see no reason not to trust that source of info.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Yeah sure.

He's and equal with Obi-Wan, yet can't beat Ventress or Fisto, kek.

Ventress was on a DS nexus and Grievous was injured and pre prime when he fought Fisto. His fighting style is also logically ill suited to facing Fisto's own.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
What's your point? They have complete agency to canonize whatever they want. But unless, they're literally reprinting issues of comics or 300 page novels into those Fact Files, they're not directly copying anything. There are tons of details left out of those stories that are all left up up interpretation, and they can afford to recycle those stories for the purposes because it isn't contradicting any of the material disney released - Rebels, the new films or TCW.

A good deal is actually a very thin slice when you consider just how much content has been ejaculated out within a forty year time period. And how is this going against Disney? I'm pretty sure Ant's email response said they were going to pay tribute to things in the Old continuity, by including it in the canon Fact File, until you can prove otherwise, I see no reason not to trust that source of info.

The problem is they're taking excerts/scans from those comics and novels, detailing their major events like it happened in the EU, and listing some accomplishments/hype for the characters that happened in the EU.

They're obviously making the EU canon, something that is specifically against the wish of Disney, since all of those stories were meant to be wiped off from continuity so that their writters can expand upon that on their on time(i.e. Rebels, Shattered Empire, etc.)

And to drive it all home: these Fact Files mention the Yuuzhan Vong(that don't exist in canon and are replaced by the events of The Force Awakens), Galen Marek and PROXY(that also do not exist as their story has been replaced with that of Rebels), and probably some other examples I forgot to mention.

The timelines that Fact File is describing is in conflict, so it's logical to assume they take into account both the EU and canon.