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Wesley is at his best (shooting the wings off the flies, shooting bullets out of the air, and curving bullets to precisely hit a target) and is very determined (like at the end of the movie). He starts off with 2 fully loaded high quality handguns (one in each hand) capable of conducting a symphony. Lastly, he is in amped mode and willing to kill.

Fight starts at 30m away. Spider-man knows Wesley's ability and starts the fight with SS activated.


Who wins?

Spiderman dodged lightning bolts in ASM2. Those are several orders of magnitude faster than bullets. Hell, they basically turned him into a borderline speedster in the 2nd film. From about 5:50 onwards:

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Even if Wesley curves the bullets, Peter is more than fast enough to avoid them.

Spidey. Dodged machine gun fire while falling toward the bullets. He also dodged lightning. No matter how good Wesley is, his bullets are still too slow to give web head a problem.

Spidey stomps instantly

Just note speed of lightning bolt on film likely not speed of real life lightning.

Maybe. Maybe not. Even if we had to assume it was slower, how much slower then? What number are we supposed to use and apply then? We'd have to arbitrarily assign some value. So it's best to go with what we know, IMO.

The lightning dodge doesn't even really matter. It's a moot point as Spidey was in the air and falling full speed toward Rhino and was casually dodging every bullet from his MP5 by making tiny movements and seeing the bullets in super-slow mo.

You can calculate the speed if you have the time to analyse the scenes, which I know most people can't be bothered.

The lightning actually looks relatively slow to me. In the video at 5:53, Electro begins his attack, the electricity reaches Spidey 2 seconds later (this is before slow mo kicks in). Real lightning would appear to have covered that short distance instantly.

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According to one article I read, speed of lightning can be as fast as 1/3 speed of light - that is Quicksilver territory.

The question is - do people think Spiderman can move that quick ?

The only reason I point this out is because of a possible fallacy arising, that is:

1. Spiderman can dodge Electro's lightning bolt.
2. Lightning bolt in real life is fast - faster than a bullet.
3. Therefore Spiderman can dodge bullets.

Now this doesn't mean Spiderman can't dodge bullets - since apparently he has done it, I don't remember since it's been too long and I'll just assume it wasn't aim-dodging. But you can't derive that from the logic above alone.

No apparently about it.

xma4VPBO5Mo?t=176

Start at 2:55

And Vault's video shows just how fast that electricity is, and just how fast Spidey is in getting around it.

Originally posted by KingD19
No apparently about it.

xma4VPBO5Mo?t=176

Start at 2:55

And Vault's video shows just how fast that electricity is, and just how fast Spidey is in getting around it.

Then there is also this, from the first ASM film. At around 2:05:

wtClC8fslWI

Originally posted by KingD19
The lightning dodge doesn't even really matter. It's a moot point as Spidey was in the air and falling full speed toward Rhino and was casually dodging every bullet from his MP5 by making tiny movements and seeing the bullets in super-slow mo.

Watched the scene, and you're probably right.

Although I hesitate to give Spidey full bullet dodging certification (e.g Like I would give Agent Smith) based on that. IMO feels like some bullet dodging but mixed with some aim dodging and luck. In slow motion, it looked like if some bullets were aimed at his center mass, he wouldn't be fast enough to get out of the way - I could be wrong, only watched the clip 3 times.

Also its an AKS (variant of AK74), not MP5

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Then there is also this, from the first ASM film. At around 2:05:

wtClC8fslWI

I think this is text book aim dodging.

To be a bullet timer, you have to be moving at super-speed, depicted either by:

1. Slow motion (which he does in ASM2 as you pointed out), or

2. Some other speed special effect (i.e not moving at human/actor speed).

Well, that is up to personal opinion. Regardless of how people want to explain it, he's shown on multiple occasions that gunfire isn't a problem for him.

Edit: Not to mention he has his own ranged attacks, and is above Wesley in strength, durability, agility etc.

Wesley is outclassed here.

Also I only just noticed that the cop open fired at an unarmed, non-threatening kid dressed in a halloween costume.

Originally posted by Placidity
Also I only just noticed that the cop open fired at an unarmed, non-threatening kid dressed in a halloween costume.



Well, Cap, in Civil War, isn't much better. He'd just met Peter there. He had no idea what Parker's upper strength/durability limits were, and just dropped a jet bridge on his head (and based on the one site I checked, those things can weigh over 20 metric tons).

While true, Cap is a tactical genius. He knew if Tony was confident enough to have nobody else but Spidey fighting him, he was up for the challenge.

Being able to go toe-to-toe with Cap doesn't necessarily mean he can press 20 plus tons. That was a huge gamble on Cap's part, IMO. For all he really knew, he could have squashed the kid.

Edit: Also, Ursarkar E. Creed is the only true "tactical genius". The 40k fans here will get it.

spidey sense wins

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Being able to go toe-to-toe with Cap doesn't necessarily mean he can press 20 plus tons. That was a huge gamble on Cap's part, IMO. For all he really knew, he could have squashed the kid.

Edit: Also, Ursarkar E. Creed is the only true "tactical genius". The 40k fans here will get it.

That's also assuming Cap just knew how much a skybridge weighed. Pretty sure that wasn't on his SHIELD issue required "modern day" reading packet after he got thawed out.

Based on the size alone, it's pretty easy to estimate that it should at least be a decent couple of tons. A jet bridge isn't exactly small. At the end of the day, Cap collapsed a large metal structure on top of him, based purely on the assumption that he could handle it, without actually knowing that he could. Him not knowing how much the jet bridge weighed doesn't really help his case. That just means he dropped a large structure of unknown mass on a total stranger, based on an assumption.

Obviously, I doubt that was the intent the writers were trying to convey in the scene. If anything, that brief bout alone seemed to impress Cap, and give him a degree of respect for Spidey. But it doesn't change that it is kind of a WTF moment if you look at it objectively.

Originally posted by h1a8
Wesley is at his best (shooting the wings off the flies, shooting bullets out of the air, and curving bullets to precisely hit a target) and is very determined (like at the end of the movie). He starts off with 2 fully loaded high quality handguns (one in each hand) capable of conducting a symphony. Lastly, he is in amped mode and willing to kill.

Fight starts at 30m away. Spider-man knows Wesley's ability and starts the fight with SS activated.


Who wins?

Everyone else seems to think Spider-Man wins so I'm going to take a shot in the dark here and guess that you think Wesley will win?

Looking at that first clip again, I am not totally convinced the first few seconds of that electrical attack is actually in real time. The scene flipped between slowmo and real time on multiple occasions. And at 6:02, the electricity seems to be moving at a similar speed to how it was shown earlier, but everyone else is pretty much frozen. Plus, the bolts he fires at Spidey after he saves the people are pretty much instant. Not that it matters much. Wesley can't shoot lightning bolts.

Originally posted by Surtur
Everyone else seems to think Spider-Man wins so I'm going to take a shot in the dark here and guess that you think Wesley will win? Correct!
Originally posted by KingD19
No apparently about it.

xma4VPBO5Mo?t=176

Start at 2:55

And Vault's video shows just how fast that electricity is, and just how fast Spidey is in getting around it.

This scene proves that Wesley could actually win. Look how fast the bullets are in comparison to Spidey turning through the air. Rhino is a bad shot. If he aimed center of mass then the bullet would reach Spidey before Spidey could moved his body out of the way.

Also Wesley can see a flies wings beating less than 1 cycle per second. This is more than 200 times slower. He would see an 852mph Beretta 92s bullet traveling less than 4.3mph (walking speed).

On a random note, that really has to be one of the lowest points in Paul Giamatti's career. He's barely in the movie to begin with, and the entire time he is there he is made to look like a complete fool.

Isn't it interesting that h1 thinks Wesley would beat Spiderman, yet lose to Deadshot?

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
On a random note, that really has to be one of the lowest points in Paul Giamatti's career. He's barely in the movie to begin with, and the entire time he is there he is made to look like a complete fool.

True. Big waste of him. Cinemasins said it best when they said,"Nobody told Paul Giamatti this isn't a cartoon."

ASM wins this.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Isn't it interesting that h1 thinks Wesley would beat Spiderman, yet lose to Deadshot? The stipulations are different. I already said Wesley wins over DS if he starts amped. DS wins because Wesley starts normal.
In this fight Wesley starts amped.

DS doesn't win. you're just too biased to admit it.

Originally posted by Silent Master
DS doesn't win. you're just too biased to admit it.

If Wesley starts off normal and not amped then what chance does he have the first half second after the bell? If he starts amped then he clearly wins. So DS winning is based solely off stipulation only.