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HoT is Outlander, rest are at their peaks.

Same starting positions as vs. Soa.

All 8?
Sidious rapes.

Yeah, all eight.

@Nephthys

Comment plz.

Sidious stomps.

Originally posted by Azronger
Sidious stomps.

A lot of people would argue that the Outlander is nearing Vader level, with the support of peeps like Nox, Thor, and Wrath who are arguably on the same level with lesser apprentices of Sheev. That could be a challenge for Sheev, not to mention 4 additional distractions to give the team a better chance. Sidious wins, but even if you don't place the protags as high, I doubt a non-ridiculous argument that places them MUCH lower can be made. I guess Sidious' speed can be a problem for them, but I don't see how this is a stomp otherwise.

^ Arcann's around Malgus' level, being more than capable of taking on the Hero as of SoR and HK-55. They had little chance of winning that alone. Afterwards, they just about matched him in strength (assuming the attuned lightsaber provided that buff in terms of story just as much as gameplay; otherwise, the Hero was irrevocably capable of besting him alone). So, you've got a Malgus-tier Force-user capable of blocking lightsabers and 7 other combatants. Let's examine their greatest collective feats: killing the Colossal (and maybe the Worldbreaker) Monolith and driving Revan out of the Temple of Sacrifice.

Half of the Force-users were hindered, and the other half was amped (due to Yavin's dark side Force nexus). They did require Revan's LS half's telekinetic aid to pursue Revan, but it's probably safe to say that they could've stalemated Revan without the HoT's help.

So, you've got a Malgus-tier combatant and a team that's roughly equal to SoR Revan. Power-wise, I estimate Malgus to be somewhere between Tyranus and Vader (a bit closer to Vader's side, of course). Vader felt confident he could take down Sidious with his son's help after an undisclosed amount of training. Probably a year or so. 2 Vaders would've been an outright threat to Sidious; that's why he prohibited Jerec from reading the Dark Side Compendium. If I had to bet, I'd say the Outlander could probably land at least a scathing blow or 2. The real question in the end is how many casualties the rest of the team suffers while the HoT inflicts them.

The rest of the team probably lasts as long as SoR Revan against Sidious, so you're basically pitting the equivalent of Revan and Arcann/Malgus against him, and the Outlander should be strong enough to kill him by the time their teammates expire (like a weaker Vader lashing out against Sidious while SoR Revan pins him down or keeps him occupied, since, as NFSs and weaker Force-sensitives, the rest of the team isn't quite capable of actively harming Darth Sidious).

Sidious just blitzes.

Team

Originally posted by Geistalt
^ Arcann's around Malgus' level, being more than capable of taking on the Hero as of SoR and HK-55. They had little chance of winning that alone. Afterwards, they just about matched him in strength (assuming the attuned lightsaber provided that buff in terms of story just as much as gameplay; otherwise, the Hero was irrevocably capable of besting him alone). So, you've got a Malgus-tier Force-user capable of blocking lightsabers and 7 other combatants. Let's examine their greatest collective feats: killing the Colossal (and maybe the Worldbreaker) Monolith and driving Revan out of the Temple of Sacrifice.

Half of the Force-users were hindered, and the other half was amped (due to Yavin's dark side Force nexus). They did require Revan's LS half's telekinetic aid to pursue Revan, but it's probably safe to say that they could've stalemated Revan without the HoT's help.

So, you've got a Malgus-tier combatant and a team that's roughly equal to SoR Revan. Power-wise, I estimate Malgus to be somewhere between Tyranus and Vader (a bit closer to Vader's side, of course). Vader felt confident he could take down Sidious with his son's help after an undisclosed amount of training. Probably a year or so. 2 Vaders would've been an outright threat to Sidious; that's why he prohibited Jerec from reading the Dark Side Compendium. If I had to bet, I'd say the Outlander could probably land at least a scathing blow or 2. The real question in the end is how many casualties the rest of the team suffers while the HoT inflicts them.

The rest of the team probably lasts as long as SoR Revan against Sidious, so you're basically pitting the equivalent of Revan and Arcann/Malgus against him, and the Outlander should be strong enough to kill him by the time their teammates expire (like a weaker Vader lashing out against Sidious while SoR Revan pins him down or keeps him occupied, since, as NFSs and weaker Force-sensitives, the rest of the team isn't quite capable of actively harming Darth Sidious). 1) Arcann > Malgus definitely.

2) Actually, it was pretty shocking to see Revan > all those characters combined. It's a feat that elevates Revan for sure, but I don't see how you can use it in favor of the protags.

3) Character opinions regarding themselves are not necessarily reliable. OT Sidious is on another level and I don't see ROTJ Luke(+1 year traning) + Vader defeating the Emperor by showings.

4) Like I said, if one places the Outlander near Vader, and the rest anywhere around Dooku-Maul, then with 4 additional distractions, the team might have a chance if you believe that numbers are of high significance within Star Wars. Most would disagree.

Sidious, obviously.

Probably the Protags. This is way too many hyper strong opponents with numerous strong abilities. Geistalt and Sinious have made some great points.

The Outlander and the Wrath can hold him off in sabers with the help of the others dogpiling him with ranged attacks and other tricks and abilities. Then it's just a case of overwhelming him with attacks and co-ordination.

Lmao

I actually agree with Neph on this. Underestimating the Protags way too much here.

Originally posted by Petrus
I actually agree with Neph on this. Underestimating the Protags way too much here.

Sidious.

Originally posted by Petrus
I actually agree with Neph on this. Underestimating the Protags way too much here.

How are they taking down a walking dark side nexus whose existence threatens the balance of the Force, who can bend lightsaber blades with his lightning, tank Galen's suicide blast at point blank range, and TP billions of people simultaneously? What are they going to do to him?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
How are they taking down a walking dark side nexus whose existence threatens the balance of the Force, who can bend lightsaber blades with his lightning, tank Galen's suicide blast at point blank range, and TP billions of people simultaneously? What are they going to do to him? When you put it that way

The same way Arcann and the Outlander handled a 1500 year old God-like Emperor who can eat planets, oneshot Dark Councils, and spirit-**** with people like no other.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The same way Arcann and the Outlander handled a 1500 year old God-like Emperor who can eat planets, oneshot Dark Councils, and spirit-**** with people like no other.

You mean get one-shot?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
How are they taking down a walking dark side nexus whose existence threatens the balance of the Force, who can bend lightsaber blades with his lightning, tank Galen's suicide blast at point blank range, and TP billions of people simultaneously? What are they going to do to him?

By fighting him. These aren't mooks. Collectively, their powers and abilities should be able to do some damage to Sidious. We're talking about the Outlander, who's at least close to Vader by now, aided by Nox, 'Thor and Wrath, who have very good feats and accolades to their names. He's not going to be able to just blitz them, definitely.

Originally posted by Petrus
By fighting him. These aren't mooks. Collectively, their powers and abilities should be able to do some damage to Sidious. We're talking about the Outlander, who's at least close to Vader by now, aided by Nox, 'Thor and Wrath, who have very good feats and accolades to their names. He's not going to be able to just blitz them, definitely.

Prove that they can collectively put even a dent in Sidious. Vader tier is fodder tier to Sidious, and the Outlander, the most powerul one among these, isn't scratching that.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
How are they taking down a walking dark side nexus whose existence threatens the balance of the Force, who can bend lightsaber blades with his lightning, tank Galen's suicide blast at point blank range, and TP billions of people simultaneously? What are they going to do to him?

A Smuggler shoots him in the back again, obviously.

Originally posted by Petrus
By fighting him. These aren't mooks. Collectively, their powers and abilities should be able to do some damage to Sidious. We're talking about the Outlander, who's at least close to Vader by now, aided by Nox, 'Thor and Wrath, who have very good feats and accolades to their names. He's not going to be able to just blitz them, definitely.

I just don't see how they're going to hurt him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
A Smuggler shoots him in the back again, obviously.

Doesn't work:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/4293596-3699690267-19944.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/4293597-5722995035-19944.jpg

The same cannot be said for Valkorion, though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkChJ2gUvnc&t=20m17s

Originally posted by Azronger
Doesn't work:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/4293596-3699690267-19944.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/4293597-5722995035-19944.jpg

The same cannot be said for Valkorion, though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkChJ2gUvnc&t=20m17s



I said the back. And the TOR Smuggler obviously has better guns than some random anyway considering they have access to Gree/Star Forge/Rakatan tech.

Originally posted by Azronger
Prove that they can collectively put even a dent in Sidious. Vader tier is fodder tier to Sidious, and the Outlander, the most powerul one among these, isn't scratching that.

With the Valkorion amp, he is certainly scratching that.

And I think Geistalt put it nicely on the previous page.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I said the back. And the TOR Smuggler obviously has better guns than some random anyway considering they have access to Gree/Star Forge/Rakatan tech.

Any proof that they even used this tech as personal equipment?

Originally posted by Petrus
With the Valkorion amp, he is certainly scratching that.


Galen Marek's suicide blast didn't even phase Palpatine.

Originally posted by Nephthys
they have access to Gree/Star Forge/Rakatan tech.

The non-Force sensitives aren't even going to be around to fight Sidious anyway, he'd one shot them from the start. Leaving us with four people who can't compete with Sheev in the slightest. A washout yeah.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Galen Marek's suicide blast didn't even phase Palpatine.

What's the point, though? We're talking about Vader and Outlander.

Galen Marek entered Oneness and "unleashed all the power of the Force within him."

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Any proof that they even used this tech as personal equipment?

Swtore says they're constantly upgrading their weapons and equipment and always looking out for the cutting edge tech.

Which means they can understand and reverse engineer some of the most advanced technology in history, obviously.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Swtore says they're constantly upgrading the weapons and equipment and always looking out for the cutting edge tech.

Doesn't really mean they took that specific tech since those are apart of game events, not stories for the characters as far as getting the armor and weapons.

They're the greatest champions in the galaxy, all of whom possess considerable resources and connections. They would obviously have access to the best tech available.

Obviously.

Glad we agree.

Right, doesn't mean they would have access to Gree/Rakata tech and all that. Rep/Emp tech would be more logical given faction standing

Does too, the Smuggler is probably packing a Death Star as well.

The tech is available to them. Theres no reason they wouldn't have the best equipment given their status.

Originally posted by Petrus
What's the point, though? We're talking about Vader and Outlander.

Galen's final move was certainly more potent than anything we've seen the Outlander do.

Originally posted by Petrus
With the Valkorion amp, he is certainly scratching that.

And I think Geistalt put it nicely on the previous page.

Why? Because he deflected some lightsaber blades? Shaak Ti can do that, and I hope you don't consider her Vader-tier, lmao. The only only other showing in the Force I've seen from the Valkorion-amped Outlander is getting downed by Arcann, and that was with a lightsaber that amped him specifically and only against Arcann. It wouldn't work on Vader.

In short, he couldn't dream of being on Vader's tier.

And no, he didn't put it very nicely. SoR Revan is fodder to RotJ Sidious. The team isn't touching this guy.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Galen's final move was certainly more potent than anything we've seen the Outlander do.

That's not how it works, it doesn't take a a nuke to hurt him. Sidious still got his hand cut off by a normal lightsaber, like any other Sith would.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That's not how it works, it doesn't take a a nuke to hurt him. Sidious still got his hand cut off by a normal lightsaber, like any other Sith would.

Oh, if you're talking about a sabers fight, then Palpatine still crushes them, especially given that Valkorion and the Dread Masters are irrelevant there (and you have not established that any of the others can even hurt him with the Force), and so look to precedent of Dooku vs. Anakin and Obi Wan.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Oh, if you're talking about a sabers fight, then Palpatine still crushes them, especially given that Valkorion and the Dread Masters are irrelevant there (and you have not established that any of the others can even hurt him with the Force), and so look to precedent of Dooku vs. Anakin and Obi Wan.

..... Valkorion and the Dread Masters?

But no, I'm just pointing out that you're insane and that Sidious can get hurt by conventional methods. Even in that scan Az posted he's clutching his stomach after getting hit as if it hurt him. He isn't invincible to damage less than Marek's blast. I think he'd get overwhelmed by the numerous powerful attacks coming his way while the Wrath and HoTlander fight him in sabers.

Originally posted by Nephthys
..... Valkorion and the Dread Masters?

He means in sabers.

I mean that they aren't in this thread.

Originally posted by Nephthys
..... Valkorion and the Dread Masters?

But no, I'm just pointing out that you're insane and that Sidious can get hurt by conventional methods. Even in that scan Az posted he's clutching his stomach after getting hit as if it hurt him. He isn't invincible to damage less than Marek's blast. I think he'd get overwhelmed by the numerous powerful attacks coming his way while the Wrath and HoTlander fight him in sabers.

Nobody said he was invincible; the point is that his barrier feats are beyond what any of the protags have been shown to output, and his lightning feats are clearly enough to overwhelm them, so at the very least, he can block all their attacks and then electrocute them with lightsaber-bending lightning while those who try to engage him up close die quickly.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I mean that they aren't in this thread.
Oh. Lol.

Sidious never bent a lightsaber, its a complete fabrication. And Sidious won't be able to duel, block blaster shots, darts, grenades and rockets etc and maintain a powerful barrier to deflect force attacks all at the same time while hosing them with lightning. You're wildly overreaching here.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Sidious never bent a lightsaber, its a complete fabrication. And Sidious won't be able to duel, block blaster shots, darts, grenades and rockets etc and maintain a powerful barrier to deflect force attacks all at the same time while hosing them with lightning. You're wildly overreaching here.

Lmao, he has done all in RotS. It's not reaching, it's just handing out facts from the source material.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Sidious never bent a lightsaber, its a complete fabrication. And Sidious won't be able to duel, block blaster shots, darts, grenades and rockets etc and maintain a powerful barrier to deflect force attacks all at the same time while hosing them with lightning. You're wildly overreaching here.

His Force power is greater than theirs collectively; that's clear from the fact that I doubt the protags together could mind-fugg Coruscant or mind control Byss. And by the time they approach close quarters, half or more of them will be dead anyway. And the non-Force sensitive protags with the firearms can be killed with basically no exertion on Sidious's part.