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All out Battle.

I give this battle to Revan because he is the more experienced and Superior Combatant.

Neither do I see the power-scale between the two that far apart. Revan has a record of having success in battle and single combat with severe disadvantages.

Thoughts?

Sidious wins pretty easily.

Sidious closes his windpipe in one second, or blows him apart with lightning, or sunders his lightsaber defence in seconds, or any other number of delightful methods of victory. They aren't even remotely on the same level.

Based on new information, Revan.

Originally posted by ILS
Sidious closes his windpipe in one second, or blows him apart with lightning, or sunders his lightsaber defence in seconds, or any other number of delightful methods of victory. They aren't even remotely on the same level. Like he did Mace, right?

Originally posted by Kotor3
Like he did Mace, right? Mace is clearly better than Revan.

RotS > EoTPM Sidious > Plagueis > Valkorion > TOR > Novel Vitiate > Revan - a pretty long chain for Revan to overcome.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Sidious wins pretty easily. I agree, if Sidious takes the same approach as he did with his Master he wins easily.

Originally posted by ILS
Mace is clearly better than Revan. How?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
RotS > EoTPM Sidious > Plagueis > Valkorion > TOR > Novel Vitiate > Revan - a pretty long chain for Revan to overcome. Thanks for sharing your opinion. Totally disagree.

Originally posted by Kotor3
How? If he fought the way he fought against Sidious, against Revan, Revan would become a puddle in his wake.

How can you reconcile the irrefutable fact that Sidious is greater than Vitiate, who is better than Revan, and then consider the notion that Revan could hold a candle to Sidious?

Originally posted by ILS
Mace is clearly better than Revan.

Lmao.

Revan would ragdoll Windu.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Lmao.

Revan would ragdoll Windu. Oh yeah? I think you're wrong bruh.

Windu is completely eclipsed by Revan from a feats, accolades and holistic standpoint in terms of the Force.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Sidious wins pretty easily.

Sidious, lal.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Windu is completely eclipsed by Revan from a feats, accolades and holistic standpoint in terms of the Force.
You're gay.

Srs note.

Feats: Rivi Anu.

Accolades:



Holism: what holistic claim can Revan stake to Windu's nuts?

Technically peak Revan never walked through the Temple corridors, nor was he really a Jedi.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Technically peak Revan never walked through the Temple corridors, nor was he really a Jedi. Good point. Still, does Revan have comparable accolades?

Revan is clearly above the Vaders of the world imo, but he isn't on this level.

Sidious wins whilst cackling.

Originally posted by ILS
If he fought the way he fought against Sidious, against Revan, Revan would become a puddle in his wake.

How can you reconcile the irrefutable fact that Sidious is greater than Vitiate, who is better than Revan, and then consider the notion that Revan could hold a candle to Sidious? I guess it is not obvious that I feel differently. Sidious is greater than Mace but lost. Yoda is greater than Mace but it was a draw between him and Sidious. Your point?

Also, I disagree about the Mace comment. Sidious decided to engage purely in a saber battle something he did not have to do. There are plenty of examples of Revan using a combination of force and saber attacks in battle an approach he would most likely take in a battle with Mace.

Originally posted by ILS
Good point. Still, does Revan have comparable accolades?

I'm pretty sure he's been called greater than any Jedi who came before him, and it's not like there's any Jedi between Revan and Yoda's eras on the tier of either anyway.

Sidious obviously wins, but Revan is probably more powerful than no-vaapad Windu.

Originally posted by Trocity
Revan is clearly above the Vaders of the world imo, but he isn't on this level.

Sidious wins whilst cackling. If Revan is above Vader, how far is Vader from ROTS Sidious?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I'm pretty sure he's been called greater than any Jedi who came before him, and it's not like there's any Jedi between Revan and Yoda's eras on the tier of either anyway.

Sidious obviously wins, but Revan is probably more powerful than no-vaapad Windu. So your reasoning and only reasoning it seems that Sidious wins is because he is vastly more powerful than Revan, correct?

Originally posted by Kotor3
So your reasoning and only reasoning it seems that Sidious wins is because he is vastly more powerful than Revan, correct?

More powerful and skilled, yes.

Sidious without problems.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
More powerful and skilled, yes. Fair enough. Revan's combat experience, more than makes up for any diff in power. Skill is debatable.

However, knowing Sidious he would do something stupid like take Revan lightly and put himself at a disadvantage as he did with Mace.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Based on new information, Revan.

What new information?

Originally posted by ILS
Mace is clearly better than Revan.
I'll 1v1 you on that.

Sidious stomps.

Originally posted by Azronger
Sidious stomps. The same way Mace stomp him?

No, more like the same way Sidious stomped Maul and Opress.

Originally posted by Azronger
No, more like the same way Sidious stomped Maul and Opress. I disagree. More like the battle with Mace except it would be Sidious again who would end up on the floor waiting for help.

Revan is the Ali of star wars. Feared and respected by all, took out all the big dogs of his day, taken out in his prime, took some losses and always came back stronger.

ROTS Sidious is the Tyson of star wars. Able to look invincible against the average force users but unable to take out the big dogs his day. Actually he lost against them and needed help.

Originally posted by ILS
Mace is clearly better than Revan. Mace is definitely not.

Revan competing with Vitiate while Vitiate is amped by a Potent DS Nexus, while Revan was drugged up to hell. (Unless the effects of the drugs wore off by then)

Yeah, pretty safe to say that Revan >> Mace.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Based on new information, Revan. This. Evidence provided by Ant, imo, solidifies Revan as on par with any version of Sidious barring DE Sidious.

Originally posted by darthbane77
This. Evidence provided by Ant, imo, solidifies Revan as on par with any version of Sidious barring DE Sidious.
WHAT THE ACTUAL ****?

^^
Phucking joke of the century, lmao.

I think I ninja'd you Deronn, or?

Originally posted by Kotor3
Revan is the Ali of star wars. Feared and respected by all, took out all the big dogs of his day, taken out in his prime, took some losses and always came back stronger.

ROTS Sidious is the Tyson of star wars. Able to look invincible against the average force users but unable to take out the big dogs his day. Actually he lost against them and needed help.

Peddling flimsy analogies doesn't negate the fact that, canonically, Sidious > Vitiate, and Vitiate is almost certainly more powerful than Revan.

KMC has Revan placed much lower than he should be, me, Ant and Neph seem to be the only ones that realize this.

Neph doesn't place Revan highly; he thinks he's on the same tier as Zannah, i.e. someone canonically weaker than Plagueis by thirty consecutive power growths.

Originally posted by darthbane77
KMC has Revan placed much lower than he should be, me, Ant and Neph seem to be the only ones that realize this.

Some people lowball him, but you in particular highball him.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
WHAT THE ACTUAL ****?
I literally screamed out the exact same thing IRL when I saw that post lol.

Originally posted by darthbane77
KMC has Revan placed much lower than he should be, me, Ant and Neph seem to be the only ones that realize this.
Ant has Plagueis >~ Revan.
And we rank him imo relative good. In the same Tier as Krayt, Vader, Kun etc., but solidly below Plagueis, who is scaling- and accoladewise, as well as holistically in the same league as Vitate.

Yeah I don't see Revan bending lightsaber blades, cosmically threatening the Force, or matching the canonically superior Yoda.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Yeah I don't see Revan bending lightsaber blades, cosmically threatening the Force, or matching the canonically superior Yoda.
Maybe when he sheds his limitations mmm

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Peddling flimsy analogies doesn't negate the fact that, canonically, Sidious > Vitiate, and Vitiate is almost certainly more powerful than Revan. I don't keep up with all the updates for SW. I seen many quotes and debates.

So to be clear. There is concrete proof that Spiderman is stronger than Captain America though various quotes and feats from multiple sources. What concrete proof do you have that Sidious is greater than Vitiate? I assuming you mean in power and combat.

Revan has feats and accolades placing him far closer to Sidious than any of you care to admit.

@Ellimist "Honestly I'd forgotten that the protags ship was guided to Rishii, seemingly by the Force itself, which certainly does strike me as impressive, unprecedented even, if true.

This certainly is an impressive display of power, given, as you say, that Revan wasn't even intentionally doing all of this."

Revan's parity with the likes of Sheev and Lumpyhead is becoming more apparent by the day." Neph said this, so he obviously has Revan above Zannah.

Originally posted by Kotor3
I don't keep up with all the updates for SW. I seen many quotes and debates.

So to be clear. There is concrete proof that Spiderman is stronger than Captain America though various quotes and feats from multiple sources. What concrete proof do you have that Sidious is greater than Vitiate? I assuming you mean in power and combat.

Google Sidious respect thread. There's a compilation of statements declaring Sidious the most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived.

A new era dawns.

The primary shift in the past month has been the successful push of Plagueis > Vitiate.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
The primary shift in the past month has been the successful push of Plagueis > Vitiate. Which is bullshit.

Revan = RotS Sidious is bullshit :/

Only for one who has yet to shed his limitations.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Revan = RotS Sidious is bullshit :/ No, it really isn't. And the fact that you're a Sheevite further discredits you in my eyes.

I doubt he gives a shit.

Originally posted by Trocity
I doubt he gives a shit. Probably, but since when has that stopped anybody from saying anything similar?

Originally posted by darthbane77
No, it really isn't. And the fact that you're a Sheevite further discredits you in my eyes.
Lol. It is. Let's debate.
On what basis is Revan = RotS Sidious?
Despite all the quotes which I posted above(and no one yet disproved), Sidious also statlemated/overpowered Yoda, who ragdolled 100+ m ships.
He also ragdolled Dooku, who threw cruisers(up to 215m in lenght) with ease, and ragdolled Vos(who dominated K'Krukh, who threw large(40m?) ships, and Obi-Wan(who also manipulated large ships).

Originally posted by Trocity
I doubt he gives a shit.

But I must defend our lord and savior Sheev.
It's strange, that I only ranked most TOR chracters higher, since Deronn debated for them- while he barely debates at all, isn't it?

Originally posted by Ursumeles
I think I ninja'd you Deronn, or?
Obviously. I have a new found respect for Revan, sure, but not to that extent, lmao.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Lol. It is. Let's debate.
On what basis is Revan = RotS Sidious?
Despite all the quotes which I posted above(and no one yet disproved), Sidious also statlemated/overpowered Yoda, who ragdolled 100+ m ships.
He also ragdolled Dooku, who threw cruisers(up to 215m in lenght) with ease, and ragdolled Vos(who dominated K'Krukh, who threw large(40m?) ships, and Obi-Wan(who also manipulated large ships). Revan's fighting, dominating and nearly defeating two incredibly separate strike teams, willing himself back from the dead, creating an imbalance in the Force by merely existing, contending with Vitiate on a DS Nexus, all came to mind when deciding my placement for Revan. All of those feats are comparable to anything Sidious has done. For TK, Lana+Outlander+Senya were able to life the Gravestone; one of the biggest ships of the time. Revan is>>those three together, so scaling suggests he could have lifted the Gravestone on his own. Making Revan capable of TK feats equal to Yoda's.

And what have the strike teams and novel Vitiate done that are worth even a fraction of Sidious' attention, B77?

Edit won't let me correct my grammar mistakes.

Originally posted by Azronger
And what have the strike teams and novel Vitiate done that are worth even a fraction of Sidious' attention, B77? Considering the TOR protags (who comprised the strike teams for the most part) are the greatest Jedi/Sith/Combatants of their day and all have great feats. Novel Vitiate being described as Godlike, being :infinitely" more powerful than Nyriss (who was capable of incinerating peple with lightning), TPing full trained Sith Lord and being recognized as incredibly powerful at a young age by Marka Ragnos himself all come to mind.

Originally posted by darthbane77
No, it really isn't. And the fact that you're a Sheevite further discredits you in my eyes.

Even if we ignore the 12 official statements on the matter for your benefit, you haven't done a competent job explaining what Revan's feats are that trump cosmically threatening the Force, bending a lightsaber blade, mind-wiping billions of people at once, overloading Yoda's tutanimus, generating a galaxy wide nexus, etc. You're welcome to get on it.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Even if we ignore the 12 official statements on the matter for your benefit, you haven't done a competent job explaining what Revan's feats are that trump cosmically threatening the Force, bending a lightsaber blade, mind-wiping billions of people at once, overloading Yoda's tutanimus, generating a galaxy wide nexus, etc. You're welcome to get on it. I'm doing other things as well at the moment. I don't have time atm to type a huge response.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Considering the TOR protags (who comprised the strike teams for the most part) are the greatest Jedi/Sith/Combatants of their day and all have great feats. Novel Vitiate being described as Godlike, being :infinitely" more powerful than Nyriss (who was capable of incinerating peple with lightning), TPing full trained Sith Lord and being recognized as incredibly powerful at a young age by Marka Ragnos himself all come to mind.

Nope.

"have great feats" is literally cringeworthy
"Godlike" is superfluous
Incinerating people with lightning is far less impressive than bending a lightsaber blade, being able to crack Imperial Palace, etc
TPing fodder sith on nexuses is not as impressive as TPing Vader
Being "incredibly powerful" is likewise cringey

Originally posted by Azronger
And what have the strike teams and novel Vitiate done that are worth even a fraction of Sidious' attention, B77? Vitiate reigned as Lord for how many years over a Sith Empire? Could not be defeated by anyone during his life time as lord in single combat.

Sidious killed his master in his sleep.
Was defeated in single combat.
Survived only due to Anakin's confusion.
Rule over one Sith at a time.
Die by the hands of his apprentice.

Your point?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Nope.

"have great feats" is literally cringeworthy
"Godlike" is superfluous
Incinerating people with lightning is far less impressive than bending a lightsaber blade, being able to crack Imperial Palace, etc
TPing fodder sith on nexuses is not as impressive as TPing Vader
Being "incredibly powerful" is likewise cringey I will elaborate when I have the time to do so.

As for right now:
Yet true nonetheless, unless you disagree that the protags have impressive feats.

Yet is a good indicator of how powerful Vitiate is based on how his subjects see him.

Satele Shan was starting to visibly crack and/or damange Malgus' lightsaber blade, that feat>bending a lightsaber blade.

It is when he TP'd as many as he presumably did. And a 13 year old easily dominating a trained Sith Lord is impressive nonetheless, you'd agree if we were talking about Palpatine.

Yet it's true nonetheless.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Revan's fighting, dominating and nearly defeating two incredibly separate strike teams, willing himself back from the dead, creating an imbalance in the Force by merely existing, contending with Vitiate on a DS Nexus, all came to mind when deciding my placement for Revan. All of those feats are comparable to anything Sidious has done. For TK, Lana+Outlander+Senya were able to life the Gravestone; one of the biggest ships of the time. Revan is>>those three together, so scaling suggests he could have lifted the Gravestone on his own. Making Revan capable of TK feats equal to Yoda's.
Nah, not really. I mean, it was a protag+Marr+Shan+Lana+a bunch of Force sensitives, or? Bar the protags, none of them are above Maul, and might even not above Savage, who got easily ragdolled by Palpatine.
While it is better, than what has Savage done, it isn't close to shifting the Balance of the Force so heavily, that the Force created Anakin; or an guy who is a few generations weaker than_ Sidious, letting the Jedi feel the Dark Side the first Time since nearly thousand years.
Hell, in a simple disturbance is more similar
And he didn't even really ragdolled them, did he?
Krayt has done the same, and Sidious created wormholoses through his will.
Contending with an guy, who is far below Sidious doesn't puts him there :/
Revan isn't >>> The Outlander, KEK. We can Yoda also scale off from Starkiller, who busted an frigate, was statlemated by Vader, who was an Shadow of his former self, and no match for Sidious.
How big is the Gravestone? It didn't seem that big, tbh.
Also, it is possible that Palpatine TKed the Lusyanka shortly after that...which sh!ts on all Revan has done.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Nah, not really. I mean, it was a protag+Marr+Shan+Lana+a bunch of Force sensitives, or? Bar the protags, none of them are above Maul, and might even not above Savage, who got easily ragdolled by Palpatine.
While it is better, than what has Savage done, it isn't close to shifting the Balance of the Force so heavily, that the Force created Anakin; or an guy who is a few generations weaker than_ Sidious, letting the Jedi feel the Dark Side the first Time since nearly thousand years.
Hell, in a simple disturbance is more similar
And he didn't even really ragdolled them, did he?
Krayt has done the same, and Sidious created wormholoses through his will.
Contending with an guy, who is far below Sidious doesn't puts him there :/
Revan isn't >>> The Outlander, KEK. We can Yoda also scale off from Starkiller, who busted an frigate, was statlemated by Vader, who was an Shadow of his former self, and no match for Sidious.
How big is the Gravestone? It didn't seem that big, tbh.
Also, it is possible that Palpatine TKed the Lusyanka shortly after that...which sh!ts on all Revan has done. Saying Palpatine is far above Vitiate is pure cancer. Yes Sidious is above him, but not that significantly. Most of the characters in either strike team (barring Lana and Theron), especially the Force users, are all above Maul pretty decently. Krayt willing himself to stay alive doesn't detract from Revan doing it in any way. Yes, Revan IS >>The Outlander. Revan did ragdoll the strike team, perhaps watch the fight?

Originally posted by Kotor3
Vitiate reigned as Lord for how many years over a Sith Empire? Could not be defeated by anyone during his life time as lord in single combat.

Sidious killed his master in his sleep.
Was defeated in single combat.
Survived only due to Anakin's confusion.
Rule over one Sith at a time.
Die by the hands of his apprentice.

Your point?
He is still canonically more powerful. And btw, his master is canonically more powerful than Vitate
So was Revan, by Sidious canonical inferior. And btw, ne wasn't, he threw the entire fight.
Also, Mace > all of the TOR era, bar Vitate and Sidious.
Yes, they needed the Chosen One to kill him, and he came back.

Your point?

Originally posted by darthbane77
Saying Palpatine is far above Vitiate is pure cancer. Yes Sidious is above him, but not that significantly. Most of the characters in either strike team (barring Lana and Theron), especially the Force users, are all above Maul pretty decently.
And Vitate is > Revan
And yeah, Novel Vitate hasn't done anything to suggest that henis close to Sidious.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Even if we ignore the 12 official statements on the matter for your benefit, you haven't done a competent job explaining what Revan's feats are that trump cosmically threatening the Force, bending a lightsaber blade, mind-wiping billions of people at once, overloading Yoda's tutanimus, generating a galaxy wide nexus, etc. You're welcome to get on it. Bending a lightsaber blade is the only thing you mentioned that would be combat related.

Even if Sidious is more powerful, faster, more skilled than Revan, Revan has shown himself to have a measure of success against surmounting odds. i.e. battle against Vitiate and Malak on the Star Forge.

This is how i see the battle going. Sidious due to his pride would attack Revan in the same way he did Mace and would not start off with a force attack. Revan's precognition would allow him to survive the onslaught until he is able to gain equal footing in saber combat.

Then you have a saber battle where Revan's experience would come into play. Revan would probably employ many dirty tricks. I see either Revan disarming Sidious or employing a force attack that catches him off guard.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
And Vitate is > Revan
And yeah, Novel Vitate hasn't done anything to suggest that henis close to Sidious. Novel Vitiate is > Revan. It's pretty likely that SoR Revan is > SWTOR Vitiate.

Originally posted by darthbane77
It's pretty likely that SoR Revan is > SWTOR Vitiate.
Nope.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
He is still canonically more powerful. And btw, his master is canonically more powerful than Vitate
So was Revan, by Sidious canonical inferior. And btw, ne wasn't, he threw the entire fight.
Also, Mace > all of the TOR era, bar Vitate and Sidious.
Yes, they needed the Chosen One to kill him, and he came back.

Your point? So you don't have a valid response. Threw the fight haven't we heard that one before.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Nope. Yep

@Kotor3 LAL

@DB77
"...The Emperor will prove far too powerful for Revan, or anyone else."

From (Darth Marr, Star Wars: The Old Republic: Shadow of Revan)
-----


From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Rise of the Emperor)
Valkorion poses threat to the entire galaxy and a single individual cannot stop him.

"No one person - not even Revan - can truly destroy the Emperor. He will destroy Revan, then move on to the rest of us. In time, he will consume all life in the galaxy."

From (Darth Marr, Star Wars: The Old Republic: Shadow of Revan)

Credit to SWLeGenD

Originally posted by darthbane77
Yep

A strong argument here. 😁

Originally posted by The_Tempest
A strong argument here. 😁 My best yet. Tbh I'm not really trying. I've had this debate way too many times to really give a **** about it anymore. While I'm serious in my stance that Revan=ROTS Sidious or Yoda at the lowest, the debate in itself atm is more just to piss people off.

Concession accepted.
Sidious still rapes Revan.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Concession accepted.
Sidious still rapes Revan. Meh, not really a concession considering the debate wasn't serious on my part to begin with. The opinions of Sheevites matter little to me, as I'm sure the opinions of Revanites matter little to you.

I wasn't trying either, lol.
Hat was just to point a few things out.

Yes, they don't matter to me, as canon says otherwise :/

I think it was a great discussion. It is clear on why Sidious supporters say he wins:
Sidious unbalance the force
Is the most powerful darkside force users ever to live.

None of which is true and non combat related.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
I wasn't trying either, lol.
Hat was just to point a few things out.

Yes, they don't matter to me, as canon says otherwise :/ And canon can be disputed by other canon instances. Nothing is set in stone.

Originally posted by darthbane77
And canon can be disputed by other canon instances. Nothing is set in stone.
Yes, it can. Sidious quotes were never retconnected, tho, except for the Son, which usually isn't included in these.

Originally posted by Kotor3
I think it was a great discussion. It is clear on why Sidious supporters say he wins:
Sidious unbalance the force
Is the most powerful darkside force users ever to live.

None of which is true and non combat related.
Originally posted by Kotor3
So you don't have a valid response point