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Who is the better team?

Anybody who isn't brain-damaged would give AotC Obi-Wan the edge over Qui-Gon.

Anakin's also above TPM Obi-Wan. In at least some sources, Anakin is depicted as contending with Dooku, whereas Obi-Wan's never shown to be able to contend with Maul (who's an inferior swordsman to the Count) without the benefit of rage.

Yeah, atoc tam are considerably better.

Any member of the AotC team is better than any member of the TPM team.

Well the question isn't which combatants are more skilled and more powerful, but which is a better team, in which case I'd go for TPM team.

Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan clearly had great synergy, whereas AOTC Obi-Wan was usually shouting at Anakin and chasing him around. And though even as a team TPM duo would get stomped by Count Dooku, but at least they'd fight him together.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well the question isn't which combatants are more skilled and more powerful, but which is a better team, in which case I'd go for TPM team.

Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan clearly had great synergy, whereas AOTC Obi-Wan was usually shouting at Anakin and chasing him around. And though even as a team TPM duo would get stomped by Count Dooku, but at least they'd fight him together.

2 combatants fight two combatants, one occupies one, the effectiveness of teamwork is limited here.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Anybody who isn't brain-damaged would give AotC Obi-Wan the edge over Qui-Gon. As someone who clearly suffers from immense brain damage, I disagree.

Why is AotC necessarily better than Jinn? Based on what hard evidence?

^ Yeah I was thinking the same but didn't want to be called brain damaged


Originally posted by Ziggystardust
2 combatants fight two combatants, one occupies one, the effectiveness of teamwork is limited here.


I'm probably misrepresenting the OP's intentions, but he doesn't put the 2 teams against each other in a 2 v 2 match up. He just says "which is the better team". And as of AOTC, Obi-Wan and Anakin had many flaws as a team, mainly due to Anakin's arrogance and frustrations at not being a Knight.

Originally posted by ILS
As someone who clearly suffers from immense brain damage, I disagree.

Why is AotC necessarily better than Jinn? Based on what hard evidence?
LMAO; Qui-Gon lost against Maul. Clearly AotC Kenobi >>

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well the question isn't which combatants are more skilled and more powerful, but which is a better team, in which case I'd go for TPM team.

Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan clearly had great synergy, whereas AOTC Obi-Wan was usually shouting at Anakin and chasing him around. And though even as a team TPM duo would get stomped by Count Dooku, but at least they'd fight him together.



I side with TPM. There is nothing to suggest that AotC Kenobi is superior to Qui-Gon; let's see, Qui-Gon lasted how long against Maul and Kenobi lasted how long against the troll Dooku?

Anakin is superior to TPM Kenobi in terms of overall fighting ability, but he clearly extremely reckless, arrogant, and lacks control. Not saying that Kenobi could beat Anakin every day of the week, but it's definitely not one sided.

And then there is sync energy and we all know who gets that.

^ Good points and TPM Obi-Wan did already beat a superior combatant down to that combatant's arrogance, cockiness and recklessness.

Qui-Gon lasted something around 30 seconds against Maul who was injured and only using one half of his lightsaber.

AOTC team, every time.

Why are we assuming that AOTC Anakin is always arrogant and reckless in combat? What from one showing against Dooku, after the fact he just witnessed his fellow Jedi get killed and Dooku being the cause of it?

Yeah in that instance sure Anakin was, but now were gonna apply it to every combat scenario where this didn't happen?

Not to mention even applying this, Anakin was still able to fight Dooku....soo...why is this a negative?

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Not to mention even applying this, Anakin was still able to fight Dooku....soo...why is this a negative?

Only because Kenobi bought him enough time to recover his fried ass.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Only because Kenobi bought him enough time to recover his fried ass.

Yeah and guess what? Neither of the 2nd team uses Force Lighting.

But anyway, TPM did show to be the better team mostly because they weren't separated for more than half the movie, give or take.

That has nothing to do with what I said

Besides this isn't a regular vs thread

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
That has nothing to do with what I said

Besides this isn't a regular vs thread



I know, just pointing that out though as people like to use it against AoTC Anakin when his opponents don't use Force Lighting.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Why are we assuming that AOTC Anakin is always arrogant and reckless in combat? What from one showing against Dooku, after the fact he just witnessed his fellow Jedi get killed and Dooku being the cause of it?
LOL, it's hardly unique to that situation tbh. If you read Jedi Quest, you'll see that he does shit like that all the ****ing time lol

Originally posted by Emperordmb
LOL, it's hardly unique to that situation tbh. If you read Jedi Quest, you'll see that he does shit like that all the ****ing time lol

Mmmk...but basing off the movies? It's hardly fair to say Anakin is always like this in combat, when the instance was surrounded by circumstance.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Mmmk...but basing off the movies? It's hardly fair to say Anakin is always like this in combat, when the instance was surrounded by circumstance.
Well we have the instance of Anakin being a prick in combat in AOTC, nothing in AOTC to really contradict that he acts that way in combat, and a book series establishing that he does that shit all the time.

I'm more inclined to think that is how he conducts himself in combat.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Well we have the instance of Anakin being a prick in combat in AOTC, nothing in AOTC to really contradict that he acts that way in combat, and a book series establishing that he does that shit all the time.

I'm more inclined to think that is how he conducts himself in combat.

He seemed rather focused and level headed in the Arena battle.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
He seemed rather focused and level headed in the Arena battle.
Yes, and he's also fighting alongside Padme... the person he loves above all other people. Of course he'll want to protect her. Besides, in the arena, there were a bunch of minions, and not one great big bad for Anakin to throw himself at.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Yes, and he's also fighting alongside Padme... the person he loves above all other people. Of course he'll want to protect her. Besides, in the arena, there were a bunch of minions, and not one great big bad for Anakin to throw himself at.

Right, which would mean his mindset there under no circumstances is clear. Anakin only threw himself at Dooku recklessly because of him being the cause of all those Jedi dying, if you took that away...would you still say he'd go in recklessly just from the movie?

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Right, which would mean his mindset there under no circumstances is clear. Anakin only threw himself at Dooku recklessly because of him being the cause of all those Jedi dying, if you took that away...would you still say he'd go in recklessly just from the movie?
No him being with Padme means he's more motivated towards actual teamwork and to protect the person next to him (since he's obsessively attached to her and she's much more vulnerable in combat than him) than he otherwise would be. That's not quite the same as his conduct in almost every other battle.

He was also being reckless in the Zam Wessel chase.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
No him being with Padme means he's more motivated towards actual teamwork and to protect the person next to him (since he's obsessively attached to her and she's much more vulnerable in combat than him) than he otherwise would be. That's not quite the same as his conduct in almost every other battle.

He was also being reckless in the Zam Wessel chase.

So you're saying Padme aside, he wouldn't want to protect Obi-Wan? I mean sure he could be more motivated because of Padme, but I don't think there would be a huge gap in working with someone else. Plus there really was only that battle where he was clear of mind, that and I guess the factory.

Every other battle, was with cirumstances(mother dying in his arms, his anger to Dooku for killing Jedi.)

Eh...yes I could see that he was being reckless, since Zam was trying to kill Padme, but not really much a fight there.

At any rate, we're treading off topic here so I don't wanna make this a lengthy thing.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
So you're saying Padme aside, he wouldn't want to protect Obi-Wan? I mean sure he could be more motivated because of Padme, but I don't think there would be a huge gap in working with someone else. Plus there really was only that battle where he was clear of mind, that and I guess the factory.

Every other battle, was with cirumstances(mother dying in his arms, his anger to Dooku for killing Jedi.)

Eh...yes I could see that he was being reckless, since Zam was trying to kill Padme, but not really much a fight there.

At any rate, we're treading off topic here so I don't wanna make this a lengthy thing.
Yes but it doesn't exactly help your case when in the Jedi Path series, and in OCW, both pretty soon before and after AOTC, he exhibits the exact same behavior as in the Dooku duel.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Yes but it doesn't exactly help your case when in the Jedi Path series, and in OCW, both pretty soon before and after AOTC, he exhibits the exact same behavior as in the Dooku duel.

Right but I'm just talking specifically from the movies, no outside sources.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Right but I'm just talking specifically from the movies, no outside sources.
Is that specified in the OP?

And regardless, looking at it with the movie fights, we have the geonosis arena weighed with the Dooku fight and the Zam Wessel chase.

And based on Obi-Wan's comments about Anakin's arrogance, criticism of Anakin not listening to him, implication that he does reckless shit all the time ("You know I don't like it when you do that. I don't mind flying but what you're doing is suicide" "How many times have I told you, stay away from power couplings" "I hate it when he does that", I really don't think Anakin's reckless combative behavior is only specific to those circumstances.

Team 1

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I'm probably misrepresenting the OP's intentions, but he doesn't put the 2 teams against each other in a 2 v 2 match up. He just says "which is the better team". And as of AOTC, Obi-Wan and Anakin had many flaws as a team, mainly due to Anakin's arrogance and frustrations at not being a Knight.

yea but the TPM team had conflict of their own. while Obi Wan was much more respectful he still bucked against his masters way of doing things. and if we are talking battle prowess as a team they the also have a shitty record, 1 dead and one lucky hit against just one opponent.

Originally posted by relentless1
yea but the TPM team had conflict of their own. while Obi Wan was much more respectful he still bucked against his masters way of doing things.


That never once negatively effected them in combat in any way, shape or form.


Originally posted by Zenwolf
Mmmk...but basing off the movies? It's hardly fair to say Anakin is always like this in combat, when the instance was surrounded by circumstance.


No one said he's always like that. Just that he can be reckless, whereas TPM Kenobi can take advantage of reckless behaviour as he's proven.

Lol you don't have to stick to AotC to show that Anakin is reckless/impatient. Look at TCW.

Anakin on Iego when he destroyed a bunch of friendly b1's while Kenobi told him to wait.

Anakin fighting Dooku on Naboo with the magnaguard trap; he relentlessly tries to hack at Dooku instead of first trying to dismantle the droids.

Anakin did dismantle the droids first, lol. Another droid came out of nowhere and captured Palpatine, and it was behind Dooku, which meant Anakin had no way of getting to it until he defeated Dooku first, lol.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Anakin did dismantle the droids first, lol. Another droid came out of nowhere and captured Palpatine, and it was behind Dooku, which meant Anakin had no way of getting to it until he defeated Dooku first, lol. sorry I should have specified

DOZ4SpuOmH4

He just bum rushes Dooku who's walking away instead of saving his own ass first.

Originally posted by Kurk
Lol you don't have to stick to AotC to show that Anakin is reckless/impatient. Look at TCW.

Anakin on Iego when he destroyed a bunch of friendly b1's while Kenobi told him to wait.

Anakin fighting Dooku on Naboo with the magnaguard trap; he relentlessly tries to hack at Dooku instead of first trying to dismantle the droids.


Nah AOTC Anakin and TCW Anakin are totally different.

In AOTC he was frustrated over not being a Knight, blaming Kenobi and trying to impress Padme. None of that applies during TCW. His supposed "recklessness" (as the Jedi saw him) in TCW won him battles left, right and centre and saved countless lives. He actually showed himself to be a military genius in battle.

He could still get angry and hot headed, but not usually in a way that would cost him the fight.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Nah AOTC Anakin and TCW Anakin are totally different.

In AOTC he was frustrated over not being a Knight, blaming Kenobi and trying to impress Padme. None of that applies during TCW. His supposed "recklessness" (as the Jedi saw him) in TCW won him battles left, right and centre and saved countless lives. He actually showed himself to be a military genius in battle.

He could still get angry and hot headed, but not usually in a way that would cost him the fight.
In RotS he was frustrated over not being a master, blaming the jedi council and still trying to impress Padme with his "new powers". All of that applies during TCW. His supposed "recklessness" in TCW battles still had an effect. In "Shadow of Malevolence", Anakin relentlessly tries to penetrate the Malevolence's defenses in an attempt to kill Grievous; several clones are shot down and only after Ahsoka begs him to turn around and Plo Koon seconds it does he.

In "Downfall of a Droid", Anakin again relentlessly pursues Grievous in his starfighter in an attempt to kill him. After suffering damage to his ship which should have resulted in him breaking off, he still continues to pursuit resulting in his ship blowing up. End result is him being injured and R2, with all of his valuable war information, being captured.

I can provide more if you wish

Him being frustrated in ROTS had no noticeable effect on him in combat until he turned to the dark side and was conflicted about his decision.

Oh he made a few mistakes in battle. Must be reckless then right?

What about in Cat and Mouse when he outsmarted Tactical Genius Admiral Trench saving the planet below while Kenobi was ordering him not to intervene because it was a hopeless cause?

Who figured how to put down the Zillo Beast? Was it Jedi Master champion of the order Mace Windu? Wait no, that was Skywalker as well. Go figure.

Who figured out how to infiltrate the citadel with the unorthodox yet genius idea of carbon freeze? Yes Anakin again.

He was the Clone Wars greatest hero which he proved again and again. I can provide more examples if you like.

As for your lowball example who destroyed the Malevolence in the end? Oh that's right it was Anakin.

Who heroically saved Plo Koon against the Council's orders and exposed the Malevolence and her Ion Weapon in the first place? Oh yes Anakin.

The examples are numerous. No other Jedi came close to him during TCW.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Him being frustrated in ROTS had no noticeable effect on him in combat until he turned to the dark side and was conflicted about his decision.

Oh he made a few mistakes in battle. Must be reckless then right?

What about in Cat and Mouse when he outsmarted Tactical Genius Admiral Trench saving the planet below while Kenobi was ordering him not to intervene because it was a hopeless cause?

Who figured how to put down the Zillo Beast? Was it Jedi Master champion of the order Mace Windu? Wait no, that was Skywalker as well. Go figure.

Who figured out how to infiltrate the citadel with the unorthodox yet genius idea of carbon freeze? Yes Anakin again.

He was the Clone Wars greatest hero which he proved again and again. I can provide more examples if you like.

As for your lowball example who destroyed the Malevolence in the end? Oh that's right it was Anakin.

Who heroically saved Plo Koon against the Council's orders and exposed the Malevolence and her Ion Weapon in the first place? Oh yes Anakin.

The examples are numerous. No other Jedi came close to him during TCW.
I didn't say that Anakin failed to win battles during his career but rather that he still presented the traits of impatience and recklessness in TCW. Sure he won battles square and fair, but he still had his moments. You are ignoring this part.

In "R2 Come Home" Skywalker nearly killed himself and Mace by triggering a bomb instead of first thinking about why a Mandalorian helmet would be sitting at a crash site.

Anakin attacks Clovis without thinking about the repercussions and is only saved from possible eviction from the order because Clovis lied to save him.

Originally posted by Kurk
sorry I should have specified

DOZ4SpuOmH4

He just bum rushes Dooku who's walking away instead of saving his own ass first.

How very retarded. He fought Tyranus because that was his primary target. Once the droids got in the way, he usually managed to dismantle them just fine until they cheapshotted him.

Only after he dispatches them with TK does he head for Dooku again. Pay attention.

Originally posted by MythLord
How very retarded. He fought Tyranus because that was his primary target. Once the droids got in the way, he usually managed to dismantle them just fine until they cheapshotted him.

Only after he dispatches them with TK does he head for Dooku again. Pay attention.
lol you pay attention. He didn't dismantle them and force pushing them was ineffective. Anakin just pretends to ignore them since he wants to reach the ultimate goal, killing Dooku, so quickly without thinking.

Originally posted by Kurk
lol you pay attention. He didn't dismantle them and force pushing them was ineffective. Anakin just pretends to ignore them since he wants to reach the ultimate goal, killing Dooku, so quickly without thinking.

Not quite darling. He clearly spends a good deal of time fighting them off.

Then when he reaches the chamber where Tyranus stood, he took out two of them with TK then engaged Dooku directly while the droids were either incapped or just not jumping into the fight.

Once the two he dispatched recovered, he was in trouble, but by that point he was already driving back Dooku.

Though I have no idea how this proves Anakin is suddenly inferior to Qui-Gon or TPM Kenobi. mmm

Originally posted by MythLord
Not quite darling. He clearly spends a good deal of time fighting them off.

Then when he reaches the chamber where Tyranus stood, he took out two of them with TK then engaged Dooku directly while the droids were either incapped or just not jumping into the fight.

Once the two he dispatched recovered, he was in trouble, but by that point he was already driving back Dooku.

Though I have no idea how this proves Anakin is suddenly inferior to Qui-Gon or TPM Kenobi. mmm Boo boo, Dooku is walking away with his saber deactivated posing no immediately threat to Anakin. Instead of first destroying the droids rather than temporarily moving them out of his way, he chases after Dooku as if he really thinks he can kill him before the droids can get back up. Looks like Anakin learned his lesson though because the second time on Naboo he makes sure to completely dismantle the two magnaguards before engaging Dooku.

Originally posted by Kurk
Boo boo, Dooku is walking away with his saber deactivated posing no immediately threat to Anakin. Instead of first destroying the droids rather than temporarily moving them out of his way, he chases after Dooku as if he really thinks he can kill him before the droids can get back up. Looks like Anakin learned his lesson though because the second time on Naboo he makes sure to completely dismantle the two magnaguards before engaging Dooku.

Well, obviously he doesn't think a bunch of droids are a threat, so he figures a simple BFR would do.
Keep in mind that Dooku was Anakin's biggest arch enemy; makes sense he'd be his primary target in most scenarios.

Originally posted by MythLord
Well, obviously he doesn't think a bunch of droids are a threat, so he figures a simple BFR would do.
Keep in mind that Dooku was Anakin's biggest arch enemy; makes sense he'd be his primary target in most scenarios.
He doesn't think several magnaguards which he struggled against were a threat? More like he was an impatient child who failed at taking it one step at a time.

Originally posted by Kurk
He doesn't think several magnaguards which he struggled against were a threat? More like he was an impatient child who failed at taking it one step at a time.

When did he struggle against MagnaGuards? He defeated them fairly handily in the earlier seasons of TCW, where he was just barely above his padawan self.

This whole "Anakin is reckless" thing needs to end, since said recklessness is something Dooku -- one of the most masterful and precise duelists in galactic history, with a fighting form practically designed for exploiting defensive lapses and mistakes -- couldn't exploit and was hard pressed to bypass Skywalker's defenses in a duel.

Jinn and TPM Kenobi wouldn't stand a chance in hell of doing that. The AotC team still wins.

Originally posted by MythLord
When did he struggle against MagnaGuards? He defeated them fairly handily in the earlier seasons of TCW, where he was just barely above his padawan self.

This whole "Anakin is reckless" thing needs to end, since said recklessness is something Dooku -- one of the most masterful and precise duelists in galactic history, with a fighting form practically designed for exploiting defensive lapses and mistakes -- couldn't exploit and was hard pressed to bypass Skywalker's defenses in a duel.

Jinn and TPM Kenobi wouldn't stand a chance in hell of doing that. The AotC team still wins. Not all magnaguards are the same. Surely you would know that. He was tiring quickly in that fight, you see him visibly panting after deflecting several strikes from them.

overall recklessness doesn't translate into his saber technique but his overall character and the way he conducts himself. And please don't substitute dashes with two hyphens; it's alt + 0151 .

Is there any proof that AotC Kenobi is better than Qui Gon? Dooku trolled with Kenobi while Qui-Gon put up a hell of a fight against Maul using an extremely physically demanding form as a 60 year old man.

Originally posted by Kurk
Not all magnaguards are the same. Surely you would know that. He was tiring quickly in that fight, you see him visibly panting after deflecting several strikes from them.

He might've been panting more due to the exhaustion of contending with Dooku and tanking MagnaGuard blows square on the back.

And does Anakin know there are different types of MGs? So far, until that point in time, he's only engaged the fodder MagnaGuards.

Originally posted by Kurk
overall recklessness doesn't translate into his saber technique but his overall character and the way he conducts himself.

Which will not change the fact that he's better than Jinn or TPM Obi.

Originally posted by Kurk
And please don't substitute dashes with two hyphens; it's alt + 0151 .

I'll write anyway I want, thank you very much. It's not even that big a difference, really.

Originally posted by Kurk
Is there any proof that AotC Kenobi is better than Qui Gon? Dooku trolled with Kenobi while Qui-Gon put up a hell of a fight against Maul using an extremely physically demanding form as a 60 year old man.

And this means something, why? Because your arbitrary ranking has to have Dooku and Maul neccessarily close? Sorry, but that's just head-canon.
As of TPM, Obi was already "stating his own" against Jinn as a swordsman, performing admirably well against him in spars and performing similarly well against Maul, not to mention being faster than him.

Add in over a decade of improvement and Obi's surpassing Jinn. Getting trolled by Dooku also isn't worse than getting goofed by Maul into leading you to an certain advantegous area, then killing you after 30 seconds, and being dead to rights against an injured Maul after a 30 second duel on Tatooine.

Besides, Dooku's canonically > Maul, anyways.

Without focusing on them much? Sure.



I'm not insulting his intelligence, I'm noting Anakin might not've been prepared for a greater opposition than the one he got from fighting previous MagnaGuards. People like Dooku have fallen for the trick of underestimating foes based on past experience, as well.

Is he stupid?



He definitely is as a holistic fighter, as well. His ability to impress Tyranus, whereas someone who at least rivals Jinn gets trolled around, is enough to place him above both Qui-Gon and Qui-Gon's inferior.



Yeah, I'll assume one of the greatest Jedi ever won't improve at all over the course of a decade. Brilliant logic. The fact that he's giving Jinn hell and performing similarly to Jinn against the same foe is enough to mark them close by TPM. With a decade of improvement under his belt, AotC Obi should at least rival Jinn, but more-than-likely is his superior.

BTW, Dooku being > Maul, isn't arbitrary -- it's fact:

"More sophisticated, more calculating, and if anything deadlier than Maul, Count Dooku(a.k.a. Darth Tyranus) proved himself more than a match for the combined skills of Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker in Attack of the Clones."

-- Star Wars Panel-to-Panel Volume 1

Originally posted by MythLord
Without focusing on them much? Sure.



I'm not insulting his intelligence, I'm noting Anakin might not've been prepared for a greater opposition than the one he got from fighting previous MagnaGuards. People like Dooku have fallen for the trick of underestimating foes based on past experience, as well.

Is he stupid?



He definitely is as a holistic fighter, as well. His ability to impress Tyranus, whereas someone who at least rivals Jinn gets trolled around, is enough to place him above both Qui-Gon and Qui-Gon's inferior.



Yeah, I'll assume one of the greatest Jedi ever won't improve at all over the course of a decade. Brilliant logic. The fact that he's giving Jinn hell and performing similarly to Jinn against the same foe is enough to mark them close by TPM. With a decade of improvement under his belt, AotC Obi should at least rival Jinn, but more-than-likely is his superior.

BTW, Dooku being > Maul, isn't arbitrary -- it's fact:

"More sophisticated, more calculating, and if anything deadlier than Maul, Count Dooku(a.k.a. Darth Tyranus) proved himself more than a match for the combined skills of Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker in Attack of the Clones."

-- Star Wars Panel-to-Panel Volume 1 LOL that book isn't even canon. You claimed that Dooku was canonically superior to Maul and you cited a picture book. What a fail. I don't know if you're a devious slime or just plain confused.

Originally posted by Kurk
LOL that book isn't even canon. You claimed that Dooku was canonically superior to Maul and you cited a picture book. What a fail. I don't know if you're a devious slime or just plain confused.

Canonically as in it's canon within a continuity, and it is canon in the EU. It isn't a picture book, lmao. It's a book that shows off the Expanded Universe continuity, specifically the comics, and it's perfectly valid for use.

You can't dimiss a source just cuz you don't like it.

I take it this weak excuse is all you've got and the rest is a concession?

Originally posted by MythLord
Canonically as in it's canon within a continuity, and it is canon in the EU. It isn't a picture book, lmao. It's a book that shows off the Expanded Universe continuity, specifically the comics, and it's perfectly valid for use.

You can't dimiss a source just cuz you don't like it.

I take it this weak excuse is all you've got and the rest is a concession? no, no, no don't BS your way out of this. You know as I well as I do that you were referring to Disney canon but you couldn't pull a legit source to prove Dooku > Maul so now you try to twist it around.

There is nothing to concede to. You've failed in trying to prove that AotC Kenobi>Jinn and Dooku>Maul. Everything is speculation.

Originally posted by Kurk
no, no, no don't BS your way out of this. You know as I well as I do that you were referring to Disney canon but you couldn't pull a legit source to prove Dooku > Maul so now you try to twist it around.

I'm not darling. I always say "canonically", even when referring to the EU. You have to either be mentally retarded, or just not know me very well, to not realize that.

People I debate frequently or who know me and my debating style like Nova, Ant, Deronn and DMB can all testify to this. You're just trying to deny a source you don't like.

Originally posted by Kurk
There is nothing to concede to. You've failed in trying to prove that AotC Kenobi>Jinn and Dooku>Maul. Everything is speculation.

I mean, I gave you a canonical quote(canonical in the EU, anyways) that proves, clear as day, Dooku is > Maul, and have given you reasoning as to why thinking Obi didn't improve at all would be moronic.

You can deny it all you want, that still counts as a concession.

What is speculations is assuming a Jedi of Kenobi's calibre would stagnate for a decade only because "hurr durr theirs nu prof". Someone must be seriously brain damaged or hilariously biased to think he wouldn't surpass Jinn.

Originally posted by MythLord
I'm not darling. I always say "canonically", even when referring to the EU. You have to either be mentally retarded, or just not know me very well, to not realize that.

People I debate frequently or who know me and my debating style like Nova, Ant, Deronn and DMB can all testify to this. You're just trying to deny a source you don't like.



I mean, I gave you a canonical quote(canonical in the EU, anyways) that proves, clear as day, Dooku is > Maul, and have given you reasoning as to why thinking Obi didn't improve at all would be moronic.

You can deny it all you want, that still counts as a concession. Well I'm not going to disagree that Legends Dooku is superior to Maul; I've said this before on my own accord. You haven't proven anything in regards to the new canon.

Again it's not a concession. Go back to the latest Dooku vs Maul thread and you'll see that in one of my posts I have Legends Dooku above Maul but not Canon Dooku.

Originally posted by Kurk
Well I'm not going to disagree that Legends Dooku is superior to Maul; I've said this before on my own accord. You haven't proven anything in regards to the new canon.

Again it's not a concession. Go back to the latest Dooku vs Maul thread and you'll see that in one of my posts I have Legends Dooku above Maul but not Canon Dooku.

Even in-canon, Dooku's just better than Maul. And I've been arguing the EU this entire time, friend. Keep up.

Originally posted by MythLord
Even in-canon, Dooku's just better than Maul. And I've been arguing the EU this entire time, friend. Keep up.
Even if Dooku was better than Maul, would the disparity be great enough that Qui-Gon's 2 minute plus fight with Maul is somehow negated by Kenobi's 30 second failure with Dooku?

Originally posted by Kurk
Even if Dooku was better than Maul, would the disparity be great enough that Qui-Gon's 2 minute plus fight with Maul is somehow negated by Kenobi's 30 second failure with Dooku?

Yes, because Maul was playing defensive to lead Jinn away, and could've killed him after a 30 second duel on Tatooine where he had a leg injury.

Wait, canon only... Well, I guess not, but then again, I'm not arguing canon-only, am I?

Originally posted by Kurk
lol you pay attention. He didn't dismantle them and force pushing them was ineffective. Anakin just pretends to ignore them since he wants to reach the ultimate goal, killing Dooku, so quickly without thinking.

So you'd keep your eye on the Magnaguards over Count Dooku?

lol don't be ridiculous. Anakin had no hope of winning there. He was simply outmatched. Nothing reckless about it.

Originally posted by Kurk


In "R2 Come Home" Skywalker nearly killed himself and Mace by triggering a bomb instead of first thinking about why a Mandalorian helmet would be sitting at a crash site.


Nah that's just a mistake. Mace only told him to stop when he recognized it was Jango's helmet. Otherwise Mace was stood right there. He never said "Stop! Don't be so reckless!"

In "Children of the Force" Mace steps right into Cad Bane's trap letting him escape. Kenobi even says to him "well you sure stepped into it this time." Wasn't particularly smart of Mace, but was just a mistake. All Jedi make them from time to time, doesn't mean they're just generally "reckless."


Originally posted by Kurk

Anakin attacks Clovis without thinking about the repercussions and is only saved from possible eviction from the order because Clovis lied to save him.


Well obviously when it comes to Clovis he's going to act recklessly. Because that's touching his biggest weakness "Padme" which was also what turned him to the Dark Side.

Doesn't mean he's going to be reckless all the time.

He's proven himself in Battle more than any other Jedi during TCW tbh.

More excuses from the fanboy, D. Thor.

Originally posted by MythLord


This whole "Anakin is reckless" thing needs to end,



I think it's fair when referring to AOTC Anakin. At the beginning he was arguing with Obi-Wan about what their mission is, then when chasing the Bounty Hunter he goes off on his own not telling Obi-Wan what he was doing, then of course at the end against Dooku, teamwork just completely went out of the window.

But beyond that, once he was Knighted his supposed "recklessness" proved in battle to be more of an asset than a weakness as seen on multiple occasions when the Jedi tell him "stop being reckless" and he saves the day, which the Jedi wouldn't have done otherwise.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
So you'd keep your eye on the Magnaguards over Count Dooku?

lol don't be ridiculous. Anakin had no hope of winning there. He was simply outmatched. Nothing reckless about it. If Dooku's walking away from me then I would take the opportunity to eliminate the droids so I can go back to focusing on Dooku instead of engaging everybody at once like an idiot.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Nah that's just a mistake. Mace only told him to stop when he recognized it was Jango's helmet. Otherwise Mace was stood right there. He never said "Stop! Don't be so reckless!"

In "Children of the Force" Mace steps right into Cad Bane's trap letting him escape. Kenobi even says to him "well you sure stepped into it this time." Wasn't particularly smart of Mace, but was just a mistake. All Jedi make them from time to time, doesn't mean they're just generally "reckless."





Well obviously when it comes to Clovis he's going to act recklessly. Because that's touching his biggest weakness "Padme" which was also what turned him to the Dark Side.

Doesn't mean he's going to be reckless all the time.

He's proven himself in Battle more than any other Jedi during TCW tbh.
Regardless he didn't think before he acted. A mandalorian helmet sitting in an environment like that should be an indicator to hold up for a second and think. Mace did.

The Clovis scene really does highlight the immaturity within Anakin and how the galaxy was ultimately doomed due to a hot piece of ass and a testosterone-filled monkey.


Also you're ignoring the other examples I brought up, such as when Anakin pushed his attacks even when it was endangering his troops or himself.

Originally posted by Kurk
If Dooku's walking away from me then I would take the opportunity to eliminate the droids so I can go back to focusing on Dooku instead of engaging everybody at once like an idiot.



It wouldn't have made any difference. Dooku would have intervened if Anakin had focused on destroying all the droids first.

Skywalker was simply outmatched there. You're trying too hard to find reckless actions from him.

Originally posted by Kurk
Regardless he didn't think before he acted. A mandalorian helmet sitting in an environment like that should be an indicator to hold up for a second and think. Mace did.


No, Mace just walked into a more obvious trap from Cad Bane. He even tells Skywalker before he went "Of course it's a trap Skywalker" Lol.

Anakin was superior out on the battle field as he proved when it was him who figured how to stop the Zillo Beast, not Mace.


Originally posted by Kurk
The Clovis scene really does highlight the immaturity within Anakin and how the galaxy was ultimately doomed due to a hot piece of ass and a testosterone-filled monkey.


Well yeah it highlighted why he turned to the dark side. But it didn't highlight why he lost battles. Probably because he hardly ever did.


Originally posted by Kurk
Also you're ignoring the other examples I brought up, such as when Anakin pushed his attacks even when it was endangering his troops or himself.


That's War, if you think you have a way to win, you push the attack, and you risk your troops.

He was still the one who destroyed the Malevolence.

I've not ignored anything. Whereas you have ignored my countless examples of Anakin showcasing he was Tactically the best warrior out on the battle field, and the one winnning most the battles.


In fact the Clones loved fighting under him. So he obviously had a good reputation with them, and not a rep of the guy who gets all his troops killed Lol.