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This is not a gauntlet, just let me know which Avengers you think Dr. Strange can defeat in a fair fight in a neutral location. Dr. Strange doesn't get the Eye of Agomotto but he does get the cape of levitation.


He faces the Avengers one at a time, is completely healed to face the next one (whether he wins or loses). Which Avengers does he get to beat?

1. Hawkeye
2. Black Widow
3. Winter Soldier
4. Black Panther
5. Captain America
6. Ant-man
7. Scarlet Witch
8. Hulk
9. Ironman
10. Thor
11. Vision

The only real issue for strange is Vision, and I don't see that as much of an issue. It comes down to this:

If you have Strange fighting to the best of his abilities and not neutered.. he wins.

If this movie takes place in a Cap or Avenger movie... He'll be victim of CIS or PIS and lose.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
The only real issue for strange is Vision, and I don't see that as much of an issue. It comes down to this:

If you have Strange fighting to the best of his abilities and not neutered.. he wins.

If this movie takes place in a Cap or Avenger movie... He'll be victim of CIS or PIS and lose.


I don't think we want to debate this with the thinking that Strange is "fighting at the best of his abilities" since we don't have a concise measurement for that. Better to base it off the feats he has done in the movie, like we do with every character in the MvF, that way we have concrete examples of what he can do and not rely on guesswork.

6-11 can beat him. He needs more feats without the eye in upcoming films.

I agree to an extent, as I think overall you're correct as a baseline for how we need to evaluate fights here. However, there is always some guess work and hypothesis involved in these fights. For example, we could see Cap toss a motorcycle, but never lift a scooter, we can then theorize that he could. Just like I got theorize Loki could create multiple dummy Loki's at the same time, all over a room, even though he's only really ever made one at a time. So there is always some level of logical deduction in these fights.

My point was, a DS, at full power and fighting for kill, shouldn't have any issues here.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I don't think we want to debate this with the thinking that Strange is "fighting at the best of his abilities" since we don't have a concise measurement for that. Better to base it off the feats he has done in the movie, like we do with every character in the MvF, that way we have concrete examples of what he can do and not rely on guesswork.

How? what are you thinking?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
How? what are you thinking?

I'm saying take all his feats from the movie then think about which Avengers he can beat by using those. Obviously there will be some amount of imagination and guesswork necessary but I just don't want to end up in a scenario where we take Strange at the best of his capabilities that have yet to be proven of use to him in combat. I certainly don't want to include his comic version and powers in this fight.

I know Froth, I responded to you, I meant that quote directed at Playa asking him how they'll win.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I know Froth, I responded to you, I meant that quote directed at Playa asking him how they'll win.


Ah. My bad. Please disregard my reply.

No worries man. Do you understand what I was saying in my post that was directed at you?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I agree to an extent, as I think overall you're correct as a baseline for how we need to evaluate fights here. However, there is always some guess work and hypothesis involved in these fights. For example, we could see Cap toss a motorcycle, but never lift a scooter, we can then theorize that he could. Just like I got theorize Loki could create multiple dummy Loki's at the same time, all over a room, even though he's only really ever made one at a time. So there is always some level of logical deduction in these fights.

My point was, a DS, at full power and fighting for kill, shouldn't have any issues here.

Your examples are incorrect however. Captain America has held a whole motorcycle above his head with 3 ladies sitting on the motorcycle. He did this for an extended period showing no signs of tiring.

Loki created multiple illusions in Germany during his first meeting with Cap. He also made multiple Loki's when fighting Thor in the rainbow bridge.

As for your logic, I have to disagree. We can assume someone who drives a motorcycle can probably also ride a bike even though we never see him ride a bike. But we can't assume that who rides a bike can drive a motorcycle.

So we can assume that someone who's done more complex things can do simpler things but we can't assume the other way.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Your examples are incorrect however. Captain America has held a whole motorcycle above his head with 3 ladies sitting on the motorcycle. He did this for an extended period showing no signs of tiring.

Loki created multiple illusions in Germany during his first meeting with Cap. He also made multiple Loki's when fighting Thor in the rainbow bridge.

As for your logic, I have to disagree. We can assume someone who drives a motorcycle can probably also ride a bike even though we never see him ride a bike. But we can't assume that who rides a bike can drive a motorcycle.

So we can assume that someone who's done more complex things can do simpler things but we can't assume the other way.

Huh? I said because Cap has been shown throwing a motorcycle AND your example of bench pressing it... we can infer he could lift a scooter... Even though he's never been shown doing so. Just like we should assume Thanos could lift a motorcycle even though he's never been shown doing so. The point is, we can and do use logically deduction during the fights, and not everything has to be shown as you just said. So you're actually agreeing with me, not disagreeing with me.

I never said we should do things in reverse. Just because somebody is shown lifting a table... doesn't mean they can lift a car. I never said otherwise. But if somebody is shown lifting a car, they can lift a table... which is my point.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Huh? I said because Cap has been shown throwing a motorcycle AND your example of bench pressing it... we can infer he could lift a scooter... Even though he's never been shown doing so. Just like we should assume Thanos could lift a motorcycle even though he's never been shown doing so. The point is, we can and do use logically deduction during the fights, and not everything has to be shown as you just said. So you're actually agreeing with me, not disagreeing with me.

I never said we should do things in reverse. Just because somebody is shown lifting a table... doesn't mean they can lift a car. I never said otherwise. But if somebody is shown lifting a car, they can lift a table... which is my point.

You never mentioned Cap lifting a motorcycle, your exact words were:

"For example, we could see Cap toss a motorcycle, but never lift a scooter, we can then theorize that he could."

But in any case, as far as Dr. Strange is concerned we can attribute him stuff he did in the movie plus something that will be easier for him to do. We can't theorize on him doing something more difficult than he's already done. In which case, I'd disagree that he can take on any of the Avengers other than Vision. He simply hasn't shown the skills yet to take on the more powerful Avengers.

stops at Bucky

Honestly all of them should beat him, he has no defensive feats of note and everyone here is much faster on the quick draw.

Maybe he beats Lang, and Tony if he screws around.

Without the eye, most of them should be able to take him in a flat out fight

I guess he could just dump them all in the mirror dimension for the instawin though. None of them have a defense for that.

He doesn't really do anything without the eye. He pretty much gets his ass handed to him. All the magical mirror world bending is done by others. His conjuring and use of magical weapons is hopeless and he only didn't die because of the Cape.

We don't know what happens if the caster is knocked out, but all the avengers seem quick enough to be able to follow strange through a portal.

But even with the eye, what can he do? Put them in a time loop?

Originally posted by FrothByte
But even with the eye, what can he do? Put them in a time loop? That gives him infinite tries to win this, so he would win eventually. Not against Thor, Vision, or Hulk, but the rest of them he would take eventually.

Originally posted by FrothByte
But even with the eye, what can he do? Put them in a time loop?

With he time gem he can age a person to bone dust or to an embryo.

Originally posted by Arachnid1
That gives him infinite tries to win this, so he would win eventually. Not against Thor, Vision, or Hulk, but the rest of them he would take eventually.

Well yeah but everytime he loses that's an MvF win for the opponent. When he eventually wins the score will be stacked on him.

Originally posted by Inhuman
With he time gem he can age a person to bone dust or to an embryo.

Unfortunately it wasn't shown that he could do this in combat, else he would have done it to Kaecilius and company.

They can break free of the time spell as we see near the end.

Originally posted by ares834
They can break free of the time spell as we see near the end.


True. But we don't really know if he can just age people like he did the apple. It's possible but need to see it like ForthByte says.

Strange exhibits the following powers in the film:
Teleportation (via sling ring)
Flight (via cloak of levitation)
Magical hand shields
Magical whip
Astral Projection (which has limited effect on the material universe and only works during unconsciousness)
Time reversal (with Eye of Amagotto)

So, excluding the time reversal and astral projection, which he really can't use here, he's still got teleportation and flight. IDK how the shields will stack against bullets, less lone mega Hulk hits.

Did he use matter bending at any point during the Mirror Dimension fight, or was that only Kaelicus and Ancient One who used that power. If he did, and thus is able to matter bend as well, then that changes things quite a bit.

Also, can Strange BFR his opponents similar to how Ancient One stranded him on Everest?

He can also BFR to the Mirror dimension.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
He can also BFR to the Mirror dimension.

I'm curious if he can trap another person in the mirror dimension while he himself steps out... or if by removing himself from the mirror dimension that also closes the doors and expels anyone who went in it through his manipulations.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Strange exhibits the following powers in the film:
Teleportation (via sling ring)
Flight (via cloak of levitation)
Magical hand shields
Magical whip
Astral Projection (which has limited effect on the material universe and only works during unconsciousness)
Time reversal (with Eye of Amagotto)

So, excluding the time reversal and astral projection, which he really can't use here, he's still got teleportation and flight. IDK how the shields will stack against bullets, less lone mega Hulk hits.

Did he use matter bending at any point during the Mirror Dimension fight, or was that only Kaelicus and Ancient One who used that power. If he did, and thus is able to matter bend as well, then that changes things quite a bit.

Also, can Strange BFR his opponents similar to how Ancient One stranded him on Everest?

It was only Kaecilius and the Ancient one who did that whole reality bending thing. If he had that power it would make him far more dangerous an opponent.

He can probably BFR his opponent by using his sling ring, but that means he'll need to spend time to create the portal in the middle of a fight, then lure his opponent in while he himself is able to get out and close the portal.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Well yeah but everytime he loses that's an MvF win for the opponent. When he eventually wins the score will be stacked on him. Would it? I mean, he technically hasn't permanently died and comes back. It doesn't really seem fair to count it as a loss, since it's not even a ten count. It's instantaneous. For example, wolverine can heal but if someone can wreck him hard enough for a ten count, he loses.

I'd say it wouldn't count as a loss for him at all, since it's his power set and instant an recovery.

Originally posted by Arachnid1
Would it? I mean, he technically hasn't permanently died and comes back. It doesn't really seem fair to count it as a loss, since it's not even a ten count. It's instantaneous. For example, wolverine can heal but if someone can wreck him hard enough for a ten count, he loses.

I'd say it wouldn't count as a loss for him at all, since it's his power set and instant an recovery.

IIRC, the way the time loop works is that it loops a specific time frame, it doesn't loop only when he dies (like that Tom Cruise movie). So if he's replaying the same 1 minute over and over again, and he dies within the first 30 seconds, it will take another 30 seconds before the loop occurs. That's counted as a loss.

Originally posted by FrothByte
IIRC, the way the time loop works is that it loops a specific time frame, it doesn't loop only when he dies (like that Tom Cruise movie). So if he's replaying the same 1 minute over and over again, and he dies within the first 30 seconds, it will take another 30 seconds before the loop occurs. That's counted as a loss. So why not loop a 5 second time frame like the movie? Dormammu killed him the second he showed and just looped the same couple of seconds over and over. It wont count as a loss and he still gets infinite tries to win.

Originally posted by Arachnid1
So why not loop a 5 second time frame like the movie? Dormammu killed him the second he showed and just looped the same couple of seconds over and over. It wont count as a loss and he still gets infinite tries to win.

Then the question comes in whether he can kill his opponent in 5 seconds. Because his opponents won't always do the exact same attacks. If he changes how he moves his opponents will also change their movements.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Then the question comes in whether he can kill his opponent in 5 seconds. Because his opponents won't always do the exact same attacks. If he changes how he moves his opponents will also change their movements. Agreed, but it still comes down to the fact that it gives him infinite tries to win whereas they'd only get one. That seems like it makes it impossible for him to lose to anyone he can actually hurt.

Iron man can fly and shoot rockets
Thor can harness lightning,
Hulk becomes an invulnerable muscle
Scarlet Witch is emo and uses magic too
Cap runs pretty fast and throws a cool shield
Black Widow stands there and looks sexy
Hawkeye pretends to look busy and needed
Vision pulls powers out of his ass with no explanation

Regardless of all the cool things these guys can do, they were awe-struck when watching the last David Blaine special. Vision is still trying to recreate, Blaines trick where he threw a playing card through a window without using his powers.
Strange wins just because everyone likes magic. Once he mesmerizes them with a killer card trick he will then kill them individually as their minds are blown.

I can't even believe we're discussing a fight in which people are saying people like Cap, BP, WS, Widow etc etc are even anything to a full powered Dr. Strange. He could literally deal with them with the utmost of ease. Mere gestures. Yet I'm supposed to entertain a thread where someone these guys pose a threat? LOL. Sorry, No. The only people who could do anything to him would be Vision and Thor and maybe IM. SW I guess could be some sort of distraction.. but they rest are absolutely nothing to Dr. Strange

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I can't even believe we're discussing a fight in which people are saying people like Cap, BP, WS, Widow etc etc are even anything to a full powered Dr. Strange. He could literally deal with them with the utmost of ease. Mere gestures. Yet I'm supposed to entertain a thread where someone these guys pose a threat? LOL. Sorry, No. The only people who could do anything to him would be Vision and Thor and maybe IM. SW I guess could be some sort of distraction.. but they rest are absolutely nothing to Dr. Strange

Ok so based purely on screen feats, how do you propose Dr. Strange takes out Cap, BP or Black Widow without the Eye?

You know how I operate Froth man, I know who strange is, I don't need to nerf him. Not sure but wasn't his Shields of Seraphim used in the movie? That would mean NONE of them can even touch him and he could go about dealing with them however he wants. Take them to the astral plane... use visions (he's vastly better than Loki at them) or use the spell Ikonn (which summons somebody worst nightmare or fear) Shoot when he removes his soul from his body, they can do absolutely nothing to him, but he can still attack them. Shoot he could just summon watoomb and blow them all away for a BFR. That is only a small portion of what he can do. In comics, these people are absolutely nothing to him. He's literally toyed with these guys before like children. Yet, because a movie nerf's him, I'm supposed to believe these guys can even pose a threat to him? Nah, don't buy it.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You know how I operate Froth man, I know who strange is, I don't need to nerf him. Not sure but wasn't his Shields of Seraphim used in the movie? That would mean NONE of them can even touch him and he could go about dealing with them however he wants. Take them to the astral plane... use visions (he's vastly better than Loki at them) or use the spell Ikonn (which summons somebody worst nightmare or fear) Shoot when he removes his soul from his body, they can do absolutely nothing to him, but he can still attack them. Shoot he could just summon watoomb and blow them all away for a BFR. That is only a small portion of what he can do. In comics, these people are absolutely nothing to him. He's literally toyed with these guys before like children. Yet, because a movie nerf's him, I'm supposed to believe these guys can even pose a threat to him? Nah, don't buy it.

Remember that you are in the MvF. Comicbook feats don't count here, only feats shown in the movies. In the movie he hasn't used spells or made people see nightmares or made illusions or removed souls from bodies. Though he himself can move to the astral plane I don't recall him forcing anyone else in there.

And if you're referring the shields he was having trouble putting up, they were roughly the size of big dinner plates and he still would need to move them to block, so he can still definitely get hit as was proven in the movie.

So I ask again, based solely on the feats he displayed in the movie, how do you think he defeats his opponents here?

Hawkeye volleys 5 hellicarrier lvl explosive arrows all around stranges' feet. Done. If he flies, clint will tag him with 3 more. Not even getting into what the others can do. Strange was literally the weakest wizard in the film sans the eye. What were his offensive moves? A whip? Lol I was severely dissapointed in the movie

Movie Strange is much different than comic Strange. Movie Strange hasn't done anything all that impressive without the eye. He loses to most of this list until he shows more. He would have died many times over if it wasn't for that cape. Hell, in his fight at the sanctum he had trouble putting normal shields up. One started to fizzle. He is a long way from being the sorcerer supreme. He will get there eventually, but he is not there yet.

Originally posted by emporerpants
Movie Strange is much different than comic Strange. Movie Strange hasn't done anything all that impressive without the eye. He loses to most of this list until he shows more. He would have died many times over if it wasn't for that cape. Hell, in his fight at the sanctum he had trouble putting normal shields up. One started to fizzle. He is a long way from being the sorcerer supreme. He will get there eventually, but he is not there yet. Agreed. Wait for him to become Sorcerer Supreme and he'll be a force to be reckoned with, but for now, he's still a beginner.

The eye can stop time or slow it to a near halt. Aging someone won't work because it would allow the combatant to defeat Strange instantly (remember Strange is speeding up time and thus speeding up his ass whooping).

But as for time stop, In that state Strange has forever to defeat whoever. So basically it boils down to who's durability can Strange overcome.

So he stops at 8.

Originally posted by h1a8
The eye can stop time or slow it to a near halt. Aging someone won't work because it would allow the combatant to defeat Strange instantly (remember Strange is speeding up time and thus speeding up his ass whooping).




Good point. Might be true tbh.


Hence why we need to see abilities applied in combat before assuming comabatants can do so and so in a fight.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I'm curious if he can trap another person in the mirror dimension while he himself steps out... or if by removing himself from the mirror dimension that also closes the doors and expels anyone who went in it through his manipulations.

He can. That's what he was trying to do against Kaecilius and his servants. However, he was unable to pull it off as Kaecilus kept manipulating the mirror dimension preventing Strange from escaping via his portals.

Not sure about how he does against everyone, but I would just like to point out that I feel some people are underselling those shields. He initially had trouble with them, and they weren't very big to start with, but his shields/defense is one area where he improved in the most, across the film, IMO. When he faced off against Dormammu, at the end, he was able to raise them very quickly, they were each about the size of Cap's shield (he was able to put nearly his whole body behind one when he blocked the one beam), and managed to hold out against previously mentioned beam for a good few seconds before giving out. And when the beam actually hit, it was powerful enough to pretty much atomize him (so it shows they can block a pretty decent hit).

They even still had a shot of it in the one trailer (by the end, they were much larger than dinner plates):

http://mcuexchange.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/33-768x318.png

So his shields + cape makes defense one of his better areas.

^ Nice