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When you consider that Maul can't even use Force lightning, which even a novice like Sirak knew Maul looks rather bland in terms of force abilities. Of all of the major Sith Lords in Legends/Canon, is Maul the poorest in terms of diversity of force techniques and weakest in terms of usage? If you take away his Lightsaber and pit him against the likes of Malak, would he end up being choked of and begging for mercy like a girl when he lost to Sidious? Why didn't Maul spend more time learning force techniques, and less time being a thug with a Lightsaber?

Because he couldn't use the Force as a substitute for Sidious' dick, like he could with a double bladed lightsaber hilt.

yup, Maul is weak sauce when it comes to Force usage

Originally posted by relentless1
yup, Maul is weak sauce when it comes to Force usage

He isn't weak, he is powerful, and there are tons of Sith that are inferior to him in power. His versatility is very low for his power level, though.

What Bart said, and also the information in Darth Plaguies concerning his training.

Because he was trained as an assassin/warrior, he had no need for such abilities. He makes up for this in his physicals, martial arts and bladework.

So he is just a highly trained thug with a Lightsaber, thanks for verifying that

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Because he was trained as an assassin/warrior, he had no need for such abilities. He makes up for this in his physicals, martial arts and bladework.

Originally posted by JKBart
He isn't weak, he is powerful, and there are tons of Sith that are inferior to him in power. His versatility is very low for his power level, though.
Well said. Maul has demonstrated that he has great force potential by pinning Sidious to a wall, ragdolling Maul and the 7th sister, etc

Originally posted by carthage
So he is just a highly trained thug with a Lightsaber, thanks for verifying that Pretty much. He's nothing special as far as Sith go.

Beating half trained force sensitives? Oh my how impressive?!

Originally posted by carthage
So he is just a highly trained thug with a Lightsaber, thanks for verifying that Then by that definition Anakin skywalker is a bigger thug as he can't utilize any force ability other than TK and isn't as refined in saber combat

Originally posted by Kurk
Then by that definition Anakin skywalker is a bigger thug as he can't utilize any force ability other than TK and isn't as refined in saber combat

One better, all Jedi are just thugs cause they really don't use any cool offensive Force abilities and mainly use TK.

Originally posted by Kurk
Then by that definition Anakin skywalker is a bigger thug as he can't utilize any force ability other than TK and isn't as refined in saber combat Carthage getting shown up left and right. Destroy him my apprentice.

Originally posted by carthage
So he is just a highly trained thug with a Lightsaber, thanks for verifying that

Hmm... I wouldn't say that. Considering he is reptedly beaten by padawans "highly trained" is a bit of a stretch.

Only 1 Padawan ever beat Maul one on one.

Same as with Vader tbh.


Originally posted by carthage
When you consider that Maul can't even use Force lightning, which even a novice like Sirak knew Maul looks rather bland in terms of force abilities. Of all of the major Sith Lords in Legends/Canon, is Maul the poorest in terms of diversity of force techniques and weakest in terms of usage? If you take away his Lightsaber and pit him against the likes of Malak, would he end up being choked of and begging for mercy like a girl when he lost to Sidious? Why didn't Maul spend more time learning force techniques, and less time being a thug with a Lightsaber?


He's one of the Deadliest Sith Lords ever as confirmed in both Canon and Legends. So stop trolling.

In SWTOR:-

Sith Inquisitor class has access to Force lightning and esoteric powers in general.

Sith Warrior class is about martial aspects of combat and raw power.

----

IMO, Force lightning should have been a HIGH-END Force power; only the greatest Sith should have been capable of using it. However, George Lucas (being an idiot he is), cheapened it in Episode II and it became mainstream from there.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
In SWTOR:-

Sith Inquisitor class has access to Force lightning and esoteric powers in general.

Sith Warrior class is about martial aspects of combat and raw power.

----

IMO, Force lightning should have been a HIGH-END Force power; only the greatest Sith should have been capable of using it. However, George Lucas (being an idiot he is), cheapened it in Episode II and it became mainstream from there.

How did he cheapen it in episode 2?

I suppose because Tyranus used it. LMAO

Yeah I know that's what he's referring to but I want him to say it out loud.

Mm.

Okay, I'll bite.
Originally posted by JKBart
He isn't weak, he is powerful, and there are tons of Sith that are inferior to him in power. His versatility is very low for his power level, though. Quite possibly the most agreeable response to the thread. I don't understand what he's lacking in terms of versatility aside from Lightning though. He's shown plenty of abilities others haven't that aren't necessarily combat related.
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Because he was trained as an assassin/warrior, he had no need for such abilities. He makes up for this in his physicals, martial arts and bladework. The thing I find cancerous about this outlook is the notion that you can divide Force users into "sabers guy" and "Force guy" - everything a Force user does is an expression of their connection to the Force.

It's not as simple as counting how many abilities one has; there's also the degree of mastery one has with the said ability. E.g Quinlan Vos (Legends), a novice Dark Sider managed to instinctively call upon Force lightning, indicating it isn't a very advanced technique, but when he tried to use it against Volffe Karkko he was pimpslapped and had much more powerful lightning returned to him. Using Zenwolf's method of deduction, Vos would appear more versatile than Karkko because "he can do the lightnings too and he is a saber guy!". Factor in potency and it's a different story.

The difference between Maul and most Sith who can call upon the all-mighty Force lightning, which novices and non-Sith can figure out how to use, is that when they're stabbed in the stomach they are out of commission, whereas you can cut Maul in half and it will literally just piss him off more. He is one of the single greatest Sith when it comes to Force augmentation and tapping into Force rage.

Originally posted by Solar Power
What Bart said, and also the information in Darth Plaguies concerning his training. If you're referring to the discussion between Plagueis and Sidious, I'd ask that you consider the fact that when Sidious was pitching the idea of training Maul, it would probably be a bad idea to mention that his plan the whole time was to murder Plagueis and have Maul rule alongside him as the new Rule of Two partnership, which is confirmed by both the novel, other Legends sources and now the canon interpretation of Maul (which is that he was Sidious' apprentice up until TPM, and was then out of the picture when Anakin came along).

Also... I don't get the issue with a Sith training as the warrior archetype. The Sith's ultimate goal is to kill the Jedi and rule the galaxy; the Sith warrior being trained to kill Jedi embodies this Sith ideal and uses the most effective means of murdering it's target: their own body and telekinesis. They'll have skill in Telepathy, perhaps lightning, and some other techniques, but the ones they truly master are the ones that allow them to complete their ultimate goal. I don't see how it could be viewed as an inferior path to take if you learnt a greater multitude of Force techniques which could end up being useless, opposed to mastering the few that get the job done. And as most of us know, most sourcebooks list Maul as being one of the most "highly trained" "lethal" "dangerous" and "skilled" Sith in the history of the Sith Order.

Just going to leave this here, as well. A post where I refer to a multitude of sources essentially debunking every notion presented in this thread, from Maul being weak, lacking versatility, having incomplete training, etc. I'm aware this was a troll thread but, on the off chance some of you were just mistaken and are open to seeing a different argument:

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/obi-wan-vs-maul-read-1765585/?page=1#js-message-16188923

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


IMO, Force lightning should have been a HIGH-END Force power; only the greatest Sith should have been capable of using it. However, George Lucas (being an idiot he is), cheapened it in Episode II and it became mainstream from there.



Yes he cheapened it by giving the ability to a total of one other Sith- Dooku.

You see Maul can't win. If he shoots Lightning, then the ability has obviously been cheapened where any Dark Sider can use it. If he doesn't shoot Lightning then it's because he sucks


FYI It was Legends that cheapened Force Lightning, not Lucas.

If anything Legends cheapened lightning by giving it to every Tom, Dick and Harry... opposed to Lucas giving it to Sidious (most powerful Sith ever) and Dooku (at the time, second most powerful).

That said, there is the issue of potency. Lightning can be shit, powerful enough to ash people and everything in between.

Yeah and if we go by Legends where every Tom, Dick, Harry can use it, what does it matter that Maul doesn't? Unless anybody actually thinks Mighella was a more powerful Force user than Maul because of Lightning Lol.

Originally posted by ILS
Mm.

Okay, I'll bite.
Quite possibly the most agreeable response to the thread. I don't understand what he's lacking in terms of versatility aside from Lightning though. He's shown plenty of abilities others haven't that aren't necessarily combat related.
The thing I find cancerous about this outlook is the notion that you can divide Force users into "sabers guy" and "Force guy" - everything a Force user does is an expression of their connection to the Force.

It's not as simple as counting how many abilities one has; there's also the degree of mastery one has with the said ability. E.g Quinlan Vos (Legends), a novice Dark Sider managed to instinctively call upon Force lightning, indicating it isn't a very advanced technique, but when he tried to use it against Volffe Karkko he was pimpslapped and had much more powerful lightning returned to him. Using Zenwolf's method of deduction, Vos would appear more versatile than Karkko because "he can do the lightnings too and he is a saber guy!". Factor in potency and it's a different story.

The difference between Maul and most Sith who can call upon the all-mighty Force lightning, which novices and non-Sith can figure out how to use, is that when they're stabbed in the stomach they are out of commission, whereas you can cut Maul in half and it will literally just piss him off more. He is one of the single greatest Sith when it comes to Force augmentation and tapping into Force rage.

If you're referring to the discussion between Plagueis and Sidious, I'd ask that you consider the fact that when Sidious was pitching the idea of training Maul, it would probably be a bad idea to mention that his plan the whole time was to murder Plagueis and have Maul rule alongside him as the new Rule of Two partnership, which is confirmed by both the novel, other Legends sources and now the canon interpretation of Maul (which is that he was Sidious' apprentice up until TPM, and was then out of the picture when Anakin came along).

Also... I don't get the issue with a Sith training as the warrior archetype. The Sith's ultimate goal is to kill the Jedi and rule the galaxy; the Sith warrior being trained to kill Jedi embodies this Sith ideal and uses the most effective means of murdering it's target: their own body and telekinesis. They'll have skill in Telepathy, perhaps lightning, and some other techniques, but the ones they truly master are the ones that allow them to complete their ultimate goal. I don't see how it could be viewed as an inferior path to take if you learnt a greater multitude of Force techniques which could end up being useless, opposed to mastering the few that get the job done. And as most of us know, most sourcebooks list Maul as being one of the most "highly trained" "lethal" "dangerous" and "skilled" Sith in the history of the Sith Order.

Just going to leave this here, as well. A post where I refer to a multitude of sources essentially debunking every notion presented in this thread, from Maul being weak, lacking versatility, having incomplete training, etc. I'm aware this was a troll thread but, on the off chance some of you were just mistaken and are open to seeing a different argument:

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/obi-wan-vs-maul-read-1765585/?page=1#js-message-16188923

Top 3 saddest things in this world:

3. Gay marriage
2. Feminism
1. Serious reply to a troll thread

This is obviously a Troll thread, but I've seen the argument many times concerning Maul not being that great because he doesn't shoot Lightning.

Maul isn't close to being the weakest, and he does know Force lightning. He isn't anything spectacular, though, and would lose to Malak.

Fl can be easily negated and it isn't that great of a power anyways.

Originally posted by Azronger
He isn't anything spectacular, though,


He is. He's one of the Deadliest Sith Apprentices of all time. Maybe just one of the deadliest Sith of all time.

That's been confirmed in both Legends and Canon.

Plus wasn't he rated on the same tier as Dooku in Sabers by Nick Gillard, and actually above Dooku in Sabers by that Top 5 Red Saber duelist list? mmm

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Top 3 saddest things in this world:

3. Gay marriage
2. Feminism
1. Serious reply to a troll thread
Lul

Originally posted by ILS

The thing I find cancerous about this outlook is the notion that you can divide Force users into "sabers guy" and "Force guy" - everything a Force user does is an expression of their connection to the Force.

It's not as simple as counting how many abilities one has; there's also the degree of mastery one has with the said ability. E.g Quinlan Vos (Legends), a novice Dark Sider managed to instinctively call upon Force lightning, indicating it isn't a very advanced technique, but when he tried to use it against Volffe Karkko he was pimpslapped and had much more powerful lightning returned to him. Using Zenwolf's method of deduction, Vos would appear more versatile than Karkko because "he can do the lightnings too and he is a saber guy!". Factor in potency and it's a different story.

The difference between Maul and most Sith who can call upon the all-mighty Force lightning, which novices and non-Sith can figure out how to use, is that when they're stabbed in the stomach they are out of commission, whereas you can cut Maul in half and it will literally just piss him off more. He is one of the single greatest Sith when it comes to Force augmentation and tapping into Force rage.

Swords I wasn't trying to downplay Maul or anything, just that....well that's what Maul was focused on, his saber skills, material arts and physicals.

So I don't see why you find it 'cancerous'....when that's what it is.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Swords I wasn't trying to downplay Maul or anything, just that....well that's what Maul was focused on, his saber skills, material arts and physicals.

So I don't see why you find it 'cancerous'....when that's what it is.


Perhaps he had more focus on martial prowess than exotic powers, but he was definitely trained in the ways of the Sith, and not just as a mere assassin. At least in Canon anyway.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Perhaps he had more focus on martial prowess than exotic powers, but he was definitely trained in the ways of the Sith, and not just as a mere assassin. At least in Canon anyway.

Well I wasn't really trying to say he was trained as just as a simple assassin, he was clearly a Sith, I guess I should have used different wording there or just threw in Sith. So apologies on that.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Well I wasn't really trying to say he was trained as just as a simple assassin, he was clearly a Sith, I guess I should have used different wording there or just threw in Sith. So apologies on that.

Imho, he should be at least in the Top 30.

Originally posted by Kurk
Maul has demonstrated that he has great force potential by pinning Sidious to a wall

Never happened.

Originally posted by Kurk
ragdolling Maul

Lol.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Swords I wasn't trying to downplay Maul or anything, just that....well that's what Maul was focused on, his saber skills, material arts and physicals.

So I don't see why you find it 'cancerous'....when that's what it is. Because for one, Maul did dedicate time to non-combat/esoteric Force powers, just not lightning, and two, warrior-related Force abilities are still Force abilities, and therefore an indication of power.

I suppose cancerous was a bit much though, apologies.

It actually speaks to Maul's abilities that his TK is so potent when he was more focused on Martial ability.


Look at this we're taking a Maul Troll thread and turning it around into a Maul respect thread

It's funny how we used to do nothing apart from butt heads; how times change.

The fight to respect Maul has brought us together.

In fact another thing is, FL isn't used a whole lot compared to TK, in fact TK is the most versatile of Force abilities when you look at the supplement powers it gives.

Let's see...

Saber Throw, Deflection, Alter Environment, Flight/Levitation, so on and so forth.

You could really do the same thing as Force Lighting, by calling down Lighting from the sky with Alter Environment, manipulating the air currents and what not. Difference really being, is that it's not coming from a Force User so you would be limited in where you could use it, but essentially it'd be the same thing.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
The fight to respect Maul has brought us together. I have been Maul's greatest champion on the boards. You disrespect him in favor of the cripple.

LMFAO, Maul's also a cripple.

Originally posted by Kurk
Maul has demonstrated that he has great force potential by pinning Sidious to a wall seriously kys

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
LMFAO, Maul's also a cripple. No, he isn't he's been upgraded. Vader needs a suit to live. The guy is a burn victim/cripple. Life must be just awful for that girly man.

noun
noun: cripple; plural noun: cripples
1.

a person who is unable to walk or move properly because of disability or injury to their back or legs.


Sounds like Maul to me.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
noun
noun: cripple; plural noun: cripples
1.

a person who is unable to walk or move properly because of disability or injury to their back or legs.


Sounds like Maul to me. He can move fine with his legs. When does he walk with a gimp ? Ironically Vader has a noticeable gimp at the end of the rebels episode they both appeared in. Maul was fine. Vader had that mean gimp to his step.

Because of a super weapon exploding on top of him.....Vader walks just as fine otherwise.

Yeah I'm sure Khan would tank that explosion

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Because of a super weapon exploding on top of him.....Vader walks just as fine otherwise. That has nothin got do with my point but I'll walk you back since you let it fly right over your head. Unable to walk or move properly aptly described Vader not Maul in the same episode that aired. I didn't say Maul could tank it without any ill effects only that this applied to Vader not Maul making it hilariously ironic.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yeah I'm sure Khan would tank that explosion He survived the vengeance crash landing just fine. Don't be upset Khan heals while Vader is a burnt Freakshow.

Originally posted by ILS
If you're referring to the discussion between Plagueis and Sidious, I'd ask that you consider the fact that when Sidious was pitching the idea of training Maul, it would probably be a bad idea to mention that his plan the whole time was to murder Plagueis and have Maul rule alongside him as the new Rule of Two partnership, which is confirmed by both the novel, other Legends sources and now the canon interpretation of Maul (which is that he was Sidious' apprentice up until TPM, and was then out of the picture when Anakin came along).

Also... I don't get the issue with a Sith training as the warrior archetype. The Sith's ultimate goal is to kill the Jedi and rule the galaxy; the Sith warrior being trained to kill Jedi embodies this Sith ideal and uses the most effective means of murdering it's target: their own body and telekinesis. They'll have skill in Telepathy, perhaps lightning, and some other techniques, but the ones they truly master are the ones that allow them to complete their ultimate goal. I don't see how it could be viewed as an inferior path to take if you learnt a greater multitude of Force techniques which could end up being useless, opposed to mastering the few that get the job done. And as most of us know, most sourcebooks list Maul as being one of the most "highly trained" "lethal" "dangerous" and "skilled" Sith in the history of the Sith Order.

Just going to leave this here, as well. A post where I refer to a multitude of sources essentially debunking every notion presented in this thread, from Maul being weak, lacking versatility, having incomplete training, etc. I'm aware this was a troll thread but, on the off chance some of you were just mistaken and are open to seeing a different argument:

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/obi-wan-vs-maul-read-1765585/?page=1#js-message-16188923

I'm actually quite a fan of your posts, so I have read what you said in that thread before. Unfortunately, that was a while back and I couldn't remember exactly what you said nor where I could find what you said, and considering this is a troll thread, I didn't put much thought into my response. Needless to say, I agree with you upon rereading and will make sure to consider this in future posts.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-BIwVCpSqVcY/WCJdJBp9sDI/AAAAAAAADfM/XdDMBWQ--3YU8WBNo4NqQAL64H-fUfuowCL0B/h168/2016-11-08.jpg

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