Trump's First 100 Day Plans Released

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DarthAnt66
http://www.npr.org/2016/11/09/501451368/here-is-what-donald-trump-wants-to-do-in-his-first-100-days

Thoughts?

cdtm
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
http://www.npr.org/2016/11/09/501451368/here-is-what-donald-trump-wants-to-do-in-his-first-100-days

Thoughts?

How would anyone get Mexico to reimburse?

BackFire
Term limits aren't happening, it's a nice idea but it's just not going to be practical.

I have serious doubts that the wall will ever really come to fruition. Likely we'll just see some more border agents, and maybe some reinforcements to some of the current fences that exist. Building one massive wall would be a bureaucratic nightmare and extremely expensive. I think he'll have trouble getting the necessary funding even from a republican controlled congress.

Immediate Obamacare repeal is definitely possible, though I'm not sure republicans are going to be as gung ho about it now that their bills would actually go through and repeal it. I think a lot of that was posturing and trying to play to their base, knowing that Obama would just veto whatever they sent his way. I think they're more likely going to either just tweak it a bit without repealing it, or wait until they have actual legislation before repealing it. Repealing it before they have a legitimate replacement I think would be political suicide as many people would get thrown off their plans, and unable to get new ones because of a preexisting condition, and democrats would make sure everyone knew about it.

It's gonna be interesting to see how Trump works with the republican congress. If he will stand up to them and tell them no on certain things, or if he'll just become a republican puppet, doing whatever they want. We saw him willing to break from republicans in the past over things, hopefully he'll continue being willing to do that since he's promised to essentially be a wrecking ball for both party establishments.

cdtm
Originally posted by BackFire
Term limits aren't happening, it's a nice idea but it's just not going to be practical.

I have serious doubts that the wall will ever really come to fruition. Likely we'll just see some more border agents, and maybe some reinforcements to some of the current fences that exist. Building one massive wall would be a bureaucratic nightmare and extremely expensive. I think he'll have trouble getting the necessary funding even from a republican controlled congress.

Immediate Obamacare repeal is definitely possible, though I'm not sure republicans are going to be as gung ho about it now that their bills would actually go through and repeal it. I think a lot of that was posturing and trying to play to their base, knowing that Obama would just veto whatever they sent his way. I think they're more likely to either going to just tweak it a bit without repealing it, or wait until they have actual legislation before repealing it. Repealing it before they have a legitimate replacement I think would be political suicide as many people would get thrown off their plans, and unable to get new ones because of a preexisting condition, and democrats would make sure everyone knew about it.

It's gonna be interesting to see how Trump works with the republican congress. If he will stand up to them and tell them no on certain things, or if he'll just become a republican puppet, doing whatever they want. We saw him willing to break from republicans in the past over things, hopefully he'll continue being willing to do that since he's promised to essentially be a wrecking ball for both party establishments.

He'll spend his entire term fighting congress if he does. Look at Obama, even he spent most of his time locking horns, and he was willing to compromise.

Unfortunately, an ant establishment president won't be enough. We need an anti establishment congress.

|King Joker|
"* FIFTH, I will lift the restrictions on the production of $50 trillion dollars' worth of job-producing American energy reserves, including shale, oil, natural gas and clean coal.

* SIXTH, lift the Obama-Clinton roadblocks and allow vital energy infrastructure projects, like the Keystone Pipeline, to move forward

* SEVENTH, cancel billions in payments to U.N. climate change programs and use the money to fix America's water and environmental infrastructure"

http://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcbqj4UjQh1rzbvsto1_500.gif

BackFire
Originally posted by cdtm
He'll spend his entire term fighting congress if he does. Look at Obama, even he spent most of his time locking horns, and he was willing to compromise.

Unfortunately, an ant establishment president won't be enough. We need an anti establishment congress.

You may very well be correct, it's definitely possible. He might try to get the republican controlled congress to kind of submit to him, and if he goes that route it'll be interesting and pretty humorous to see how they react.

Emperordmb
Originally posted by |King Joker|
"* FIFTH, I will lift the restrictions on the production of $50 trillion dollars' worth of job-producing American energy reserves, including shale, oil, natural gas and clean coal.

* SIXTH, lift the Obama-Clinton roadblocks and allow vital energy infrastructure projects, like the Keystone Pipeline, to move forward

* SEVENTH, cancel billions in payments to U.N. climate change programs and use the money to fix America's water and environmental infrastructure"

http://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcbqj4UjQh1rzbvsto1_500.gif
thumb up it's a little disturbing that people still refuse to accept that climate change is a real thing. I mean shit, Trump thinks it's a ****ing Chinese conspiracy, what the actual **** lmfao.

But no, let's keep raping our global environment. It's not like we actually want our children to be able to live full lives.

The Ellimist
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
http://www.npr.org/2016/11/09/501451368/here-is-what-donald-trump-wants-to-do-in-his-first-100-days

Thoughts?

This was released at the end of October.

Regardless, there's some fear that anthropomorphic climate change may be reaching a dangerous inflection point, and what better candidate to handle that than a global-warming denying clown whose supporters are too stupid to understand high school science class.

BackFire
That's one of the saddest things about all this. Climate change is going to get completely ignored for at least 4 more years.

|King Joker|
Originally posted by Emperordmb
thumb up it's a little disturbing that people still refuse to accept that climate change is a real thing. I mean shit, Trump thinks it's a ****ing Chinese conspiracy, what the actual **** lmfao.

But no, let's keep raping our global environment. It's not like we actually want our children to be able to live full lives. thumb up four years of a science-denying buffoon will not yield good results for the world.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
This was released at the end of October.

Regardless, there's some fear that anthropomorphic climate change may be reaching a dangerous inflection point, and what better candidate to handle that than a global-warming denying clown whose supporters are too stupid to understand high school science class. thumb up

The Ellimist
@Ant, I honestly hope that you're happy that you got a candidate who is going to ignore a literal existential threat to human civilization, all because you didn't like someone's private email server. thumb up

Emperordmb
Yeah Climate change is one of the reasons I find a Republican supermajority so disturbing.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by BackFire
That's one of the saddest things about all this. Climate change is going to get completely ignored for at least 4 more years. Climate change is a hoax invented by the Chinese.

BackFire
So I've heard.

Lord Lucien
So you should know. Dread Master Trump will deal with those sneaky Chinese and their wicked climate lies.

Bashar Teg
Must be true.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by The Ellimist
@Ant, I honestly hope that you're happy that you got a candidate who is going to ignore a literal existential threat to human civilization, all because you didn't like someone's private email server. thumb up
I'm very happy, yes. smokin'

UCanShootMyNova
Honestly it's not like America alone would have made a difference. Like, hate to break the bad news but future generations were f*cked from the get go on climate change. At least we get to lead more pleasurable lives for the time we have left.

jinXed by JaNx
Originally posted by cdtm
How would anyone get Mexico to reimburse?


Give Mexico a discount on the drugs we sell them at a high cost just to buy them back cheap.

Impediment
As an industrial radiographer and NDT technician, I approve of lifting these stupid restrictions.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Honestly it's not like America alone would have made a difference. Like, hate to break the bad news but future generations were f*cked from the get go on climate change. At least we get to lead more pleasurable lives for the time we have left. Naturally you're joking, but this kind of thinking is incredibly irresponsible all the same.

Surtur
Originally posted by Emperordmb
It's not like we actually want our children to be able to live full lives.

I know I certainly don't want that.

Plus you could always just get a pet. I know for a fact my cat doesn't care about climate change.

kevdude
Agree with all of these plans. We are giving money to the UN which is a terrible organization. We need to be energy independent of other country's, Obama has slowed that down tremendously! With China coming up economically, we need to get real about things..

Surtur
If only tears could be used as fuel..we'd solve our energy crisis over night. California alone would probably solve it.

Tzeentch
I like the idea if putting term limits on congress- it just won't happen.

Congress is not going to give Trump the money to build the wall.

Obamacare will likely not be repealed carte blanche- pieces at a time, until it's replaced with something else.

Don't have time to look at the rest.

Robtard
That's quite the first day for Trump. Wondering if he's already biting off more than he can chew.

Surtur
Originally posted by Robtard
That's quite the first day for Trump. Wondering if he's already biting off more than he can chew.

You just illustrated why people need to stop WHINING about his win. Here is the thing: a person is stupid if they feel in 4 years the country will be ruined. A person is stupid if they feel that Trumps views on climate change will cause any kind of irreversible damage within 4 years. That's not up for debate, that is pure stupidity.

Here is the silver lining: Republicans are now in the White House, the Senate, and all that shit. It's 100% them now, which means if they **** up they have NO excuses anymore. They can't blame the whiny liberals, or any of that shit. They have the chance to show the country their way is truly best. If they fail? That is on them too.

It's put up or shut up time, and now we get to see if they can put up.

Robtard
Originally posted by Surtur
You just illustrated why people need to stop WHINING about his win. Here is the thing: a person is stupid if they feel in 4 years the country will be ruined. A person is stupid if they feel that Trumps views on climate change will cause any kind of irreversible damage within 4 years. That's not up for debate, that is pure stupidity.

Here is the silver lining: Republicans are now in the White House, the Senate, and all that shit. It's 100% them now, which means if they **** up they have NO excuses anymore. They can't blame the whiny liberals, or any of that shit. They have the chance to show the country their way is truly best. If they fail? That is on them too.

It's put up or shut up time, and now we get to see if they can put up.

For someone that complains nonstop about people "whining", you sure do whine a lot. What exactly in my benign post made you flip out?

Yeah, I noted that already. They're in charge, they will rise and fall by their own tide.

Emperordmb
I don't expect everything to be screwed up, but people being upset because they expect negative change to happen isn't immature whining, it shows a legitimate concern for the state of the country.

Surtur
Originally posted by Robtard
For someone that complains nonstop about people "whining", you sure do whine a lot. What exactly in my benign post made you flip out?

Yeah, I noted that already. They're in charge, they will rise and fall by their own tide.

It was nothing you said in your post, it's just all these people crying over this. I can handle online whining, but christ almighty people need to stop making fools of themselves out in public with this shit.

It's embarrassing, and this was the side that got all up in arms over whether Trump would accept the results?

Surtur
Originally posted by Emperordmb
I don't expect everything to be screwed up, but people being upset because they expect negative change to happen isn't immature whining, it shows a legitimate concern for the state of the country.

I don't think you get the kind of whining I'm talking about. I expect people to be bummed out, even angry.

But this? Celebrities crying on tv? The same people whining Trump wouldn't accept the results saying he isn't their president? People writing letters to their daughters to help them cope with this?

Students at friggin YALE being allowed to skip tests because they are so distraught?

WTF is going on? This is not normal whining, I think we all know that.

Robtard
Originally posted by Surtur
It was nothing you said in your post, it's just all these people crying over this. I can handle online whining, but christ almighty people need to stop making fools of themselves out in public with this shit.

It's embarrassing, and this was the side that got all up in arms over whether Trump would accept the results? You're clearly taking enjoyment over this, you've said as much. One doesn't gloat otherwise; it's fine, just own up to it.

Maybe they're following Trump's example?

Surtur
Originally posted by Robtard
You're clearly taking enjoyment over this, you've said as much. One doesn't gloat otherwise. It's fine, just own up to it.

I am enjoying it, but holy shit there comes a point where it is just embarrassing to the country. People think Trump winning was bad?

The world doesn't give a shit that Surtur is laughing, they certainly aren't paying attention to me. All the world sees is people acting like a bunch of infants, and I thought Trump was supposed to be the infantile one?

Also yes I certainly did just refer to myself in the third person.



That certainly would be something utterly irrational people who didn't like Trump would decide to do after a Trump victory.

The Ellimist
Originally posted by Robtard
For someone that complains nonstop about people "whining", you sure do whine a lot.

Tbh. It's like half of Surtur's threads and posts are whining about people whining.

The Ellimist
Surtur, I know you might not care because this doesn't really affect you, but there are undocumented immigrants, family of undocumented immigrants, Muslims and even legal immigrants who legitimately have a lot to fear from him. I mean, he does want to gut DAPA and curb h1b's, and he is fully capable of doing both.

Robtard
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Surtur, I know you might not care because this doesn't really affect you, but there are undocumented immigrants, family of undocumented immigrants, Muslims and even legal immigrants who legitimately have a lot to fear from him. I mean, he does want to gut DAPA and curb h1b's, and he is fully capable of doing both.

Trump supporters don't care about any of that.

edit: Should have added, or they're outright happy about it, as they voted for the guy knowing the platform he ran on

shiv

Surtur
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Tbh. It's like half of Surtur's threads and posts are whining about people whining.

At least I keep my complaints to the realms of some random internet forum.

Bashar Teg
doubt it

Surtur
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Surtur, I know you might not care because this doesn't really affect you, but there are undocumented immigrants, family of undocumented immigrants, Muslims and even legal immigrants who legitimately have a lot to fear from him. I mean, he does want to gut DAPA and curb h1b's, and he is fully capable of doing both.

It's not that I don't care, but do you think there is even the smallest chance that perhaps the people should have thought about the consequences of coming here illegally and what might happen if they are caught..before they do it?

If I decided to rob a bank without even entertaining the possibility I might end up in jail, you'd call me stupid. You'd say nobody held a gun to my head and forced me to rob a bank.

Surtur
Originally posted by Bashar Teg
doubt it

I see no benefit in me lying about it.

So no, I don't write blogs or make videos and post them on youtube. Or make videos and post them anywhere.

Of course you are certainly free to believe otherwise.

Surtur
In fact I think it would be awesome to be one of those people who make a living off making youtube videos.

jaden101
In terms of him trying to get manufacturing back from China by introducing huge tariffs on importing goods and cutting corporation taxes to entice companies to relocate....it won't work. Either he'd have to do it while eroding workers pay and terms and conditions to match foreign countries which would be a disaster if he couples it with deporting the only demographic willing to work in those conditions or Americans will have to get used to paying far more for electronics, appliances, cars etc compounded by those tariffs as well as a weaker dollar.

Surtur
Originally posted by jaden101
In terms of him trying to get manufacturing back from China by introducing huge tariffs on importing goods and cutting corporation taxes to entice companies to relocate....it won't work. Either he'd have to do it while eroding workers pay and terms and conditions to match foreign countries which would be a disaster if he couples it with deporting the only demographic willing to work in those conditions or Americans will have to get used to paying far more for electronics, appliances, cars etc compounded by those tariffs as well as a weaker dollar.

I understand, and here is what I don't quite understand about some of these reactions to Trump.

People said building the wall wouldn't work and that it wasn't even feasible. People said him deporting every single illegal sure as hell wasn't feasible.

They never said "these things aren't possible because Trump will never be president". They just flat out said they couldn't be done. So..what suddenly changed?

Either these things are feasible or..they are not feasible.

jaden101
Originally posted by Surtur
I understand, and here is what I don't quite understand about some of these reactions to Trump.

People said building the wall wouldn't work and that it wasn't even feasible. People said him deporting every single illegal sure as hell wasn't feasible.

They never said "these things aren't possible because Trump will never be president". They just flat out said they couldn't be done. So..what suddenly changed?

You obviously physically can deport people. The impact it will have on certain vocations will be huge though.

Surtur
Originally posted by jaden101
You obviously physically can deport people. The impact it will have on certain vocations will be huge though.

I know but people said it wasn't feasible to get rid of every single illegal. But okay, we can say they are worried that some will go and they will be the ones who go.

They also said a wall just wasn't even possible either, or that we couldn't afford to build one, etc.

Yet now in a bizarre twist Hilary supporters have almost suggested they will be pissed off if he doesn't build the wall. Which I can understand being upset that he lied, but wouldn't they want that to be one of the things he lied about?

From their points of view they should be hoping that Donald Trump was indeed lying about most of the shit he said.

Which brings up another point: people are so certain Trump will ruin this country. Yet..they were so certain he would lose the election as well. This doesn't mean they will automatically be wrong about everything, but part of the reason we got here in the first place is because these people just plain couldn't truly predict what would happen. If they had paid more attention to shit besides polls maybe this wouldn't have been such a shock to so many people.

jaden101
Originally posted by Surtur
I know but people said it wasn't feasible to get rid of every single illegal. But okay, we can say they are worried that some will go and they will be the ones who go.

They also said a wall just wasn't even possible either, or that we couldn't afford to build one, etc.

Yet now in a bizarre twist Hilary supporters have almost suggested they will be pissed off if he doesn't build the wall. Which I can understand being upset that he lied, but wouldn't they want that to be one of the things he lied about?

From their points of view they should be hoping that Donald Trump was indeed lying about most of the shit he said.

Which brings up another point: people are so certain Trump will ruin this country. Yet..they were so certain he would lose the election as well.

The wall is a massive infrastructure project with no economic benefit. Why bother? Why not spend that money improving infrastructure that will not only create the construction jobs that the wall would but also increase productivity? Fix crumbling roads, improve railways, ports and airports then that would help entice manufacturing more than some of his other policies.

As for whether he's lied about what he'll do....time will tell. Obama was branded a liar for not enacting some of his policies by the same representatives who helped block those policies. The same could and likely will happen to some of Trump's unless the House can sort out its ever increasing and completely pointless practice of opposing policies simply because they're proposed by "the other side"

Remember the entire government grinding to a halt because of disagreements over increasing the debt ceiling?

Surtur
I understand but a lot of the opposition I saw wasn't because there was no economic benefit, but rather just because it wasn't possible.

It seems now the narrative has changed from "not possible" to "possible, but not easy".

I realize time will tell if Trump is a liar, but what I'm saying is liberals should be hoping he is a liar, not saying "oh he better build the wall" out of spite.

If someone was against the wall before they shouldn't be..saying it needs to now get done.

jaden101
The bigger question is why support it? It's potentially hugely costly and utterly pointless depending on its design. It's also not a one-off cost. Do the states where it will be built bear the burden of manning and maintaining it?

Surtur
Originally posted by jaden101
The bigger question is why support it? It's potentially hugely costly and utterly pointless depending on its design. It's also not a one-off cost. Do the states where it will be built bear the burden of manning and maintaining it?

I agree with you that it shouldn't be supported unless the wall would actually be effective.

Even then if building it would bankrupt the country or some shit..no. But if it was feasible(albeit difficult) but would ALSO actually make an actual difference? I'd be for it. I'm tired of people thinking they can just come here illegally, take jobs away from Americans, send that money back to Mexico, etc. Unless you're sending money so they can come here legally, but if you're just doing it so they can chill and still live in Mexico? No, I think that shit is wrong. Work in Mexico if you want to pump your hard earned dollars back into Mexico.

jaden101
Are you willing to pay considerably more for certain goods and services?

Robtard
Originally posted by Surtur
I'm tired of people thinking they can just come here illegally, take jobs away from Americans, send that money back to Mexico, etc.

l8ZJu-f-XOE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8ZJu-f-XOE

Thank you Surtur for reviving this thumb up

Surtur
Originally posted by Robtard
l8ZJu-f-XOE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8ZJu-f-XOE

Thank you Surtur for reviving this thumb up

It's no problem. South Park can certainly be funny at times.

Especially when they poke fun at things that have at least some truth to them.

Robtard
Originally posted by jaden101
Are you willing to pay considerably more for certain goods and services?

The second people like him see they're now paying $1.27 per pound of 'x' produce instead of the $0.64 they previously were, they'll b***h and moan and blame everyone and everything except themselves

snowdragon
Originally posted by jaden101
Are you willing to pay considerably more for certain goods and services?

Isn't that the same sort of arguement posed by individuals that also fight against raising the min wage?

Surtur
Originally posted by jaden101
Are you willing to pay considerably more for certain goods and services?

What is "considerably more" to you?

On top of that, do you feel it would be selfish of me if I wanted to keep legal Americans out of certain jobs just so certain goods are cheaper?

Since we can laugh about "der illegals taking our jobs" all we want, but there is definitely truth there. It's a cycle. Illegals are..illegal, they need work badly. So very badly they are willing to be paid much much less than minimum wage. Now come in the greedy businessmen. They love their illegal labor force because they can pay them shit pay without any real benefits.

Then some very asinine people spread this myth that legal Americans just plain won't do any kind of physical labor jobs. As if everyone who is a legal citizen is just holding out for cushy office jobs or something..as opposed to just a job willing to pay a decent wage for some genuine hard work.

I know legal people who literally shovel shit for a living at the zoo. But f*ck those lazy bastards I guess. How dare they want a decent wage for busting their ass. All that's important is that the illegals want a better life for themselves. Legal Americans could give a shit about better lives.

Bashar Teg
Originally posted by Robtard
The second people like him see they're now paying $1.27 per pound of 'x' produce instead of the $0.64 they previously were, they'll b***h and moan and blame everyone and everything except themselves you're being delicate with the price increase speculation imo, but yes this.

Surtur
Originally posted by Robtard
The second people like him see they're now paying $1.27 per pound of 'x' produce instead of the $0.64 they previously were, they'll b***h and moan and blame everyone and everything except themselves

I still can't figure out how it's not selfish to want to keep legal people out of work so you can have cheaper goods. Can you explain it to me?

Plus the whole "blaming everyone except themselves" is what liberals do all the time. So maybe quit it with the "people like him" shit.

cdtm
Originally posted by Robtard
The second people like him see they're now paying $1.27 per pound of 'x' produce instead of the $0.64 they previously were, they'll b***h and moan and blame everyone and everything except themselves

Ah, but for a real leftist, maybe we SHOULD be paying that $1.27. Only for different reasons.

Say, an end to sweatshop labor, or a higher minimum wage. Maybe an end of farm subsidies ect..

Surtur
Originally posted by cdtm
Ah, but for a real leftist, maybe we SHOULD be paying that $1.27. Only for different reasons.

Say, an end to sweatshop labor, or a higher minimum wage. Maybe an end of farm subsidies ect..

Plus isn't it our fault shit got this way? If we weren't so dependent on illegal labor we wouldn't be in this mess. If we put down harsher consequences for businesses who employ illegal labor maybe things would be different? This is where greed has lead us to.

Isn't it time we started cleaning up some of our messes?

This is like how my father is with his car. Whenever something little comes up he ignores it and ignores it and ignores it until it's a huge f*cking problem that will cost thousands of dollars to fix. If doing shit like that with a car is f*cktarded, how is doing that with a country not f*cktarded times a thousand?

jaden101
Originally posted by Surtur
What is "considerably more" to you?

On top of that, do you feel it would be selfish of me if I wanted to keep legal Americans out of certain jobs just so certain goods are cheaper?

Since we can laugh about "der illegals taking our jobs" all we want, but there is definitely truth there. It's a cycle. Illegals are..illegal, they need work badly. So very badly they are willing to be paid much much less than minimum wage. Now come in the greedy businessmen. They love their illegal labor force because they can pay them shit pay without any real benefits.

Then some very asinine people spread this myth that legal Americans just plain won't do any kind of physical labor jobs. As if everyone who is a legal citizen is just holding out for cushy office jobs or something..as opposed to just a job willing to pay a decent wage for some genuine hard work.

I know legal people who literally shovel shit for a living at the zoo. But f*ck those lazy bastards I guess. How dare they want a decent wage for busting their ass. All that's important is that the illegals want a better life for themselves. Legal Americans could give a shit about better lives.

It's not that Americans won't do certain jobs. They'd do them for more money which means the costs would be passed on. We're also not just taking about greedy big businesses employing cheaper labour. We're talking small businesses such as gardeners or cleaning firms. So you either pay more for those services to employ US citizens or you do the work yourself.

I wonder how many undocumented workers work as maids in Trump's hotelsO

Surtur
Originally posted by jaden101
It's not that Americans won't do certain jobs. They'd do them for more money which means the costs would be passed on. We're also not just taking about greedy big businesses employing cheaper labour. We're talking small businesses such as gardeners or cleaning firms. So you either pay more for those services to employ US citizens or you do the work yourself.

I wonder how many undocumented workers work as maids in Trump's hotelsO

Yes but we're dancing around the issue though. Do you not think it says anything negative that we want to keep this illegal labor force..in force, just so goods are cheaper?

Not only does it take some jobs away from Americans, but it exploits the hell out of the illegals.

So hold on though, if we suddenly made all these illegal workers legal..that would mean they could no longer be paid shit wages under the table..and yet that is the SOLE purpose people use them, because of how cheap it is.

So are we really saying we just want to keep a certain percentage of illegals..always illegal? Or how does this even work? If we'd run into all these issues getting rid of the illegal work force..how do we avoid those same issues without continually exploiting these people?

jaden101
You start by only using services or buying from places that don't employ illegal workers. You do a bit of research on the source of your food so it's not from farms that employ illegals or from food processing plants that employ them.

You don't ask gardeners or electricians or plumbers to do jobs for cash off the books so it's cheaper

You only stay at hotels or eat in restaurants that employ legal citizens.

Unless you move your money and get others to do the same them there's no incentive for people and businesses to not employ illegals.

Hitting profits is the only thing some people react to.

Surtur
Originally posted by jaden101
You start by only using services or buying from places that don't employ illegal workers. You do a bit of research on the source of your food so it's not from farms that employ illegals or from food processing plants that employ them.

You don't ask gardeners or electricians or plumbers to do jobs for cash off the books so it's cheaper

You only stay at hotels or eat in restaurants that employ legal citizens.

Unless you move your money and get others to do the same them there's no incentive for people and businesses to not employ illegals.

Hitting profits is the only thing some people react to.

I agree with a lot of these things, but I'm not sure how people are supposed to know which places have illegal workers and which places pay people in cash off the books. Since businesses generally do not advertise that kind of thing.

The Ellimist
Originally posted by Surtur
Yes but we're dancing around the issue though. Do you not think it says anything negative that we want to keep this illegal labor force..in force, just so goods are cheaper?

Not only does it take some jobs away from Americans, but it exploits the hell out of the illegals.

So hold on though, if we suddenly made all these illegal workers legal..that would mean they could no longer be paid shit wages under the table..and yet that is the SOLE purpose people use them, because of how cheap it is.

So are we really saying we just want to keep a certain percentage of illegals..always illegal? Or how does this even work? If we'd run into all these issues getting rid of the illegal work force..how do we avoid those same issues without continually exploiting these people?

So do you support increasing the minimum wage? Because the argument is essentially identical.

jaden101
Originally posted by Surtur
I agree with a lot of these things, but I'm not sure how people are supposed to know which places have illegal workers and which places pay people in cash off the books. Since businesses generally do not advertise that kind of thing.

Ask

The Ellimist
Originally posted by Surtur
It's not that I don't care, but do you think there is even the smallest chance that perhaps the people should have thought about the consequences of coming here illegally and what might happen if they are caught..before they do it?


Of course, and they took the gamble. ...that doesn't mean they wouldn't be scared.



It's not just the undocumented immigrants, it's also their children, who didn't exactly choose to violate immigration policy.

I don't see a response to the fears of the LGBT community, Muslims, legal immigrants, etc. I've already had friends who've been targets of racial slurs from Trump supporters, and I suspect that's going to continue to be a problem now that we've empowered that lower part of the gene pool.

Surtur
Originally posted by The Ellimist
So do you support increasing the minimum wage? Because the argument is essentially identical.

I don't necessarily support that. We'd just be taking a different route to ultimately the same destination. I can't pretend to know how to fix this or if it even can be fixed.



Fair enough.



What specifically do legal immigrants have to be afraid of? As for your friends who got called racial slurs, that is unfortunate, but do you think the people who did that would have refrained from doing it if Trump had lost?

As for the gay community, keep in mind I haven't heard every single thing Trump has said during the last 18 months. Is this about gay marriage?

As for Muslims, like I said I haven't heard 100% of the things Trump has said because lets face it..the man does talk and tweet a lot. I know he talked about temporarily banning Muslims from entering the country. I know he(or one of this aides) went on to then amend that by saying he wanted to temporarily prevent any Muslim who couldn't be vetted from entering the country.

The Ellimist
Originally posted by Surtur
Fair enough.


That explains a significant fraction of those demonstrating.



Tighter restrictions on legal immigration.



They'd have the protection of a non-xenophobic government.



Trump himself is probably the least anti-gay republican candidate in history. But the same can't be said of his VP, his congress, or his potential cabinet.



The big problem is just that, a) you may see Trump supporters being empowered to lash out against Muslims or anyone who sort of looks like they could be Muslim, and b) there could very well be a slippery slope into targeting Muslims already here. Trump did want a database of them, and when asked how this differs from the Nazi's database of Jews, just said "you tell me".

Every politician ever has been compared to Hitler before, but I honestly think that the parallels here are reasonable to draw. The Muslim ban/scapegoating, "make America great again", anti-immigrant rhetoric, complaints about the "establishment" and rigged elections, encouraging voters to vote twice, etc.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Surtur, I know you might not care because this doesn't really affect you, but there are undocumented immigrants, family of undocumented immigrants, Muslims and even legal immigrants who legitimately have a lot to fear from him. I mean, he does want to gut DAPA and curb h1b's, and he is fully capable of doing both.
So? If they're undocumented, they should be fearful.

They should properly register.

The legal ones should have nothing to fear.

The Ellimist
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
So? If they're undocumented, they should be fearful.


It's also about their children, who obviously didn't choose to break immigration policy.



You're a moron. Muslim immigrants commit crimes at lower rates than the general population.




Wrong. Donald Trump wants to place restrictions on legal immigration too. Likewise, his followers aren't very good at making sure that the people they're insulting aren't there legally.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by The Ellimist
It's also about their children, who obviously didn't choose to break immigration policy.
Then it's the fault of the parents for putting their children in a poor situation.

The burden is on the family now, not the people.



https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2015/03/19/sweden-77-6-percent-of-all-rapes-in-the-country-committed-by-muslim-males-making-up-2-percent-of-population/

https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2016/02/18/crime-by-merkel-muslims-in-germany-went-up-by-79-last-year/

mmm



Good. Our priorities should be on Americans, not those from other countries. It should be hard to get into the United States.

Surtur
Originally posted by The Ellimist
They'd have the protection of a non-xenophobic government.

What sort of protections? I don't think Trump has ever advocated for targeting Muslims(or any group) for hate crimes.



Okay but what specifically do the anti-gays want to do to the gay community? Besides getting rid of gay marriage.



I agree it's a slippery slope. I have a serious question when it comes to the Jews vs Muslims. We both know there are some people who follow Islam who are terrorists. It's not a vast percentage of them, but it is there. We also both know that you can find terrorists from most kinds of groups if you look back far enough. Was there an extremist part of the Jewish population that had comparable numbers to what we are seeing from modern day Islamic terrorists?

Let me keep in mind I'm NOT saying that made it even the slightest bit okay what Hitler did, I'm just trying to see if the comparison should truly be made to Muslims.



I will admit thinking about it I do find some parallels as well. One of which IMO is timing. Hitler came along at a time in history where the German people were so desperate for change they were willing to follow anyone who promised to fix things.

I feel like unfortunately we played a part in setting the stage for his rise to power and it seems we have done the same thing with Trump.

The Ellimist
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Then it's the fault of the parents for putting their children in a poor situation.

The burden is on the family now, not the people.


Except that the government is the one doing the active deporting, and a Western democratic republic presumably doesn't do guilt by association.

Also where's the statue of limitation here, like we have for almost every crime? Should we deport everyone except for Native Americans?



The first stat is incredibly unreliable given that most rapes aren't reported, and the second is not about American Muslims (and there's data on them, but you're mysteriously not using that).

BTW, a lot of those rape victims are probably Muslim women, but you want them to "register" too. mmm



You're hilariously naive. Even ignoring the "America-first" mentality that I know you're not going to justify, immigrants are incredibly important to our nation's growth.

- they were all of this year's American nobel prize winners
- they're more than a third of Silicon Valley
- they're most of our graduate programs
- they were behind the Manhattan project and NASA
- second generation immigrants founded Google, Intel, etc.

Now you're just assuming that if we were to get rid of them, Americans would fill the gaps. This is demonstrably not true. There is a shortage in, for example, highly skilled technical workers that isn't just going to get filled by magic if we get rid of immigrants. The fact of the matter is that highly skilled immigrants is a significant reason for why we're the world's superpower, given that most of our most important technological and scientific achievements can be attributed to first or second generations. And if "natural born" Americans could do that all by themselves, well, they had even more opportunity to, and conveniently did not.

The Ellimist
Originally posted by Surtur
What sort of protections? I don't think Trump has ever advocated for targeting Muslims(or any group) for hate crimes.


Well, not directly, but his supporters still do it, and I don't see him doing much about it.



That, rolling back anti-discrimination laws, rolling back campaigns to combat cyber bullying and other such protections, and also just the general optical and cultural effect that the political climate of the government has on the climate of our schools and workplaces.



Well the main accusation was that the Jews controlled the banks and a bunch of things. Hitler also accused them of starting communism or something.



Right. And though you may think Hillary is corrupt, there's no reasonable path to her being another Hitler.

Tzeentch
Here is some interesting clarifications and analysis on Trump's plans.

Surtur
Okay so let's talk about protesting for a second. I've said before I think people have a right to a peaceful protest. No, they do not have the right to block freeways or injure cops or any of that. But this isn't about the non-peaceful stuff.

So when it comes to peaceful protesting, I think they have the right, but my question is..should they be protesting? Now before anyone freaks out and says something along the lines of "oh so you don't think they have any worthy reasons to protest?" that is not what I am saying at all.

What I'm asking is, despite those valid reasons, is this for the best? The only reason I ask is that it has become increasingly clear over the past few days how divided this country is. You can just look and see how rural people voted when compared to urban people.

So with that in mind, does anyone think it is possible that even peaceful protests might serve to widen the divide among Americans even more? Since some activists have seemed to imply they are basically going to protest this presidency..for the entire term. Which is their right, but should they be doing it?

Followup: is setting American flags on fire really the best way to go about this?

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