Why do we attack each other for ideology?

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



Emperordmb
I've come to the philosophical revelation that attacking each other for differences in ideology (be it moral, religious, political, or spiritual) is one of the stupidest things we do as a species.

Debate and criticism is healthy, and it helps us improve our opinions. It should be constructive criticism IMO. What I've observed in my life, is when people are dicks to other people about differences in ideology, it typically doesn't lead to someone changing their mind, it leads to people becoming defensive, hostile, stubborn, and way too set in their ways. In my experience, my friends, and other people who have a civil conversation with me about ideology, and people who express a legitimate desire to help me improve my understanding of the world are the people who are most likely to change my mind about things. I've personally found that in civil discussions where I express a desire to help other people, people are more likely to truly consider my opinions with an open mind than if I attack them, put them down, and try and make them feel terrible about themselves.

As such, I think its a societal mistake that we're so hostile when it comes to ideology, because it leads people to become more concerned with who is right rather than what is right, and it leads people to close themselves off from the wisdom of others and consider people with ideological differences their enemies. If you try and make someone feel like shit for their opinions and assert yours as objectively superior, do you truly think you're helping them? Do you truly think they're gonna listen to what you have to say with an open mind? Because I don't think so.

And lastly, this post isn't an endorsement of PC ideology. What I am voicing my support for is behavior that promotes open-mindedness and open communication, whereas self-victimization seems merely another form of defensiveness and hostility, and censorship an obvious enemy of open-mindedness and open communication, and ultimately censorship is one of the worst possible attacks on ideology.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Emperordmb
I've come to the philosophical revelation that attacking each other for differences in ideology (be it moral, religious, political, or spiritual) is one of the stupidest things we do as a species. And one of our defining traits. Just let me be who I am, Mom!

Emperordmb
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
And one of our defining traits. Just let me be who I am, Mom!
All the bullshit human traits we have are pretty depressing. At the same time though, the fact that we manage to improve as a species over time despite all the bullshit is pretty inspiring.

Lord Lucien
If it helps, the only ones who give a shit about our stupid traits and tendencies is us. We're our own worst critics.

Emperordmb
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
If it helps, the only ones who give a shit about our stupid traits and tendencies is us. We're our own worst critics.
That self-criticism does help spark improvement. At the same time though, that also leads to self-loathing, which begets arrogance as a response to cover up to self-loathing, which leads to manmade evil, and leads to the very same hostility I described in this post.

When we hate ourselves on a certain level, it leads to arrogance, and between those two sides of the same coin we distort our perception of ourselves, which isn't fair to ourselves and isn't healthy. IMO, it's self love that truly leads people to view themselves as they truly are for their own sake, and leads them to actually strive for improvement.

Lord Lucien
Same with the Seven Sins thing, those linear skeins of emotion are a little too Yoda-esque to be valid as universal declarations or tendencies. One doesn't automatically lead to specifically this or that, and sometimes to get anywhere it needs to be paired with another mentality or attitude that could arise independently.

Psychologically and emotionally, we're far too complex for broad strokes to be declared definitive. Or for singular instances to be declared as examples of a universal rule. Self criticism and self hate are better tackled on a one-on-one basis, as the reasons and consequences for each are going to be different for everyone. Try to avoid absolute declarations, they tend to paint too many people into corners they don't deserve or earn.

Emperordmb
People are different, but the fact that the self-loathing/arrogance thing is such a ubiquitous among religion/spirituality, psychology, fiction, teachings about bullies, and IRL experiences and observations leads me to believe that the relation between self-loathing arrogance is one of the more ubiquitous things among human nature, granted there are discrepancies in this nature from person to person and I don't wish to standardize the human being, but this understanding has lead me to take control of my own life, and feel an empathy for others I didn't before, even if I do think each individual's problems need to be tackled on an individual basis.

Josh_Alexander
Originally posted by Emperordmb
I've come to the philosophical revelation that attacking each other for differences in ideology (be it moral, religious, political, or spiritual) is one of the stupidest things we do as a species.

Debate and criticism is healthy, and it helps us improve our opinions. It should be constructive criticism IMO. What I've observed in my life, is when people are dicks to other people about differences in ideology, it typically doesn't lead to someone changing their mind, it leads to people becoming defensive, hostile, stubborn, and way too set in their ways. In my experience, my friends, and other people who have a civil conversation with me about ideology, and people who express a legitimate desire to help me improve my understanding of the world are the people who are most likely to change my mind about things. I've personally found that in civil discussions where I express a desire to help other people, people are more likely to truly consider my opinions with an open mind than if I attack them, put them down, and try and make them feel terrible about themselves.

As such, I think its a societal mistake that we're so hostile when it comes to ideology, because it leads people to become more concerned with who is right rather than what is right, and it leads people to close themselves off from the wisdom of others and consider people with ideological differences their enemies. If you try and make someone feel like shit for their opinions and assert yours as objectively superior, do you truly think you're helping them? Do you truly think they're gonna listen to what you have to say with an open mind? Because I don't think so.

And lastly, this post isn't an endorsement of PC ideology. What I am voicing my support for is behavior that promotes open-mindedness and open communication, whereas self-victimization seems merely another form of defensiveness and hostility, and censorship an obvious enemy of open-mindedness and open communication, and ultimately censorship is one of the worst possible attacks on ideology.

Sometimes constructive criticism isn't enough. Sometimes ideologies must be fought for the greater good.

Violence is the outcome of failed deplomacy.

Violence is required sometimes to do what's necessary.

I say, be open minded! Hear them all out. But only one road can be taken.

Lord Lucien
My ideology dictates that my ideology IS the greater good, and will lead to the best results for all humanity! Everyone who fights against it is against the greater good.

Josh_Alexander
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
My ideology dictates that my ideology IS the greater good, and will lead to the best results for all humanity! Everyone who fights against it is against the greater good.

Exactly.

Should Hitler have won WW2 we would see Roosvelt and Churchill as terrible people and Hitler would be call a Hero.

NewGuy01
Originally posted by Emperordmb
And lastly, this post isn't an endorsement of PC ideology.

That's exactly what it is, fam. If you're only open to listening to people who've kissed your ass first, that's your problem.

The idea that everyone should operate under the pretense that all ideas are good ideas (lest you risk offending someone!) is silly. Legitimizing nonsense is also counterproductive. But by all means, have fun respectfully "agreeing to disagree" with Hitler.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.