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Thx for DD9 for the Idea.

Krayt takes it.

I'll make a quick case for Maul:

Lightsaber skill:
I'll start with both combatant prowess with a lightsaber, we've seen how Krayt (as A'Sharad Hett) took on Obi-Wan on Tatooine and despite that the latter was far more inexperienced fighting in the sands and he wanted to avoid killing Hett, he still dominated Hett the moment he actually got serious (when thinking about the fact that he was fighting for Luke's life).



Now it's clear that Hett was no match for Obi-Wan and was taken out pretty handily once Kenobi let go of his restraints despite the advantages the environment presented him and while it's true that he as Darth Krayt advanced in power and skill, the idea that he would make up for that gap is unfunded (leaving aside the discussion of who's the better Maul or Obi-Wan).

H2H combat:
Both Krayt and Maul are actually pretty well trained in H2H combat, e.g. both mastered Teras Kasi, but I still think Maul is better in this area because of the fact that he demonstrated his prowess against better opponents then Krayt has(e.g. Maul disarming Savage Opress).

Force Power:
In terms of Force Power Krayt has been named as vastly more powerful then the other Sith of his Order (including Wyyrlock, Nihl, Talon,...) while Maul as a (true) Sith Apprentice is placed above characters like Ventress, Sedriss, Grand Inquisitor, ... and by feats he's demonstrated to be Obi-Wan's, Grand Inquisitor's, Seventh Sister's, ... superior. I believe that Maul's power in the Force, especially in the area of TK, is superior because of how he dominated Obi-Wan who has lifted up giant airships years before AotC and his superiority over the GI (who himself is superior to the other Inquisitors who are again superior/comparable to Kanan) when realising how Kanan was lifting up giant catwalks years before Rebels and the fact that the Inquisitors were raising the Jedi Temple on Lothal (which is between 84 -100 meters in height) despite the Temple only allowing Light Side users in.

On a side note, Krayt's lightning might prove difficult for Maul to counter in certain scenarios.

Conclusion:
Maul's shown to be superior in all relevant areas of combat (lightsaber skill, H2H combat and Force Power) by accolades and feats.

EDIT: I only now saw that it's only a Force battle

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
I'll make a quick case for Maul:



Force Power:
In terms of Force Power Krayt has been named as vastly more powerful then the other Sith of his Order (including Wyyrlock, Nihl, Talon,...) while Maul as a (true) Sith Apprentice is placed above characters like Ventress, Sedriss, Grand Inquisitor, ... and by feats he's demonstrated to be Obi-Wan's, Grand Inquisitor's, Seventh Sister's, ... superior.

What? Guys like Wyyrlok aren't true Sith apprentices, then?
Also, Krayt is vastly superior to a guy, whois vastlysuperior to a Ventress-level Force User.
Krayt is vastly(and I mean vastly superior to Wredd, who has the awesome sattelite showing.
Also, proof for the fat showings?

Nope.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
What? Guys like Wyyrlok aren't true Sith apprentices, then?


A worty Sith Apprentice to Sidious.



Proof?



We don't know if Krayt's vastly superior to the version of Wredd while he also had help. The Inquisitors actually raising a 100m Jedi Temple on Lothal is far more impressive since it's working against gravity compared to collapsing a sattelite which would only require to destroy the supports.



http://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/14/149056/5006150-anakin+and+obi-wan+pull+airship.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu41kru8VMw it starts at 0:16

Kanan looked instead upward, waving with his hand – and suspending the giant catwalk in midair, centimeters from his and Hera’s heads.
She stared at it, dumbfounded – and then at him. Self-conscious, Kanan shoved at the air, pushing the levitated mass off to the side. It landed with a colossal crash.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Also, Krayt is vastly superior to a guy, who is vastlysuperior to a Ventress-level Force User.

Originally posted by MythLord

Eh, Krayt is superior to a guy, who is drastically above a Ventress-levwl force user.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Eh, Krayt is superior to a guy, who is drastically above a Ventress-level force user.

Specify.

Eh, I 'll show you jow I rank the Legacy chars, forcewise:

Tyranus >~ Vong Krayt > Wyyrlok ~ Dreypa > Cade > Maul > Ventress >~ Nihl > Talon.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Eh, I 'll show you jow I rank the Legacy chars, forcewise:

Tyranus >~ Vong Krayt > Wyyrlok ~ Dreypa > Cade > Maul > Ventress >~ Nihl > Talon.

Wut? But makes sense, although I'd have at least Cade on Dreypa's level.

Originally posted by MythLord
Wut? But makes sense, although I'd have at least Cade on Dreypa's level.
Could be. It could also be Wyyrlok ~ Cade > Dreypa, imho.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Eh, I 'll show you jow I rank the Legacy chars, forcewise:

Tyranus> Maul > Vong Krayt > Wyyrlok ~ Dreypa > Cade > Ventress >~ Nihl > Talon.

Indeed, I agree with this. Seriously though, it actually like to see some proof since until now it's just been the "I like that character more so he's better" game.

Nope.

Maul > Krayt then, I accept your concession.

Krayt > Wyyrlok >> Nihl > Talon > Stryfe > Havok > Draco > Wolf Sazen >> Sith Trooper > Average Knight > Average Padawan > Maul

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
I'll make a quick case for Maul:

Lightsaber skill:
I'll start with both combatant prowess with a lightsaber, we've seen how Krayt (as A'Sharad Hett) took on Obi-Wan on Tatooine and despite that the latter was far more inexperienced fighting in the sands and he wanted to avoid killing Hett, he still dominated Hett the moment he actually got serious (when thinking about the fact that he was fighting for Luke's life).



Now it's clear that Hett was no match for Obi-Wan and was taken out pretty handily once Kenobi let go of his restraints despite the advantages the environment presented him and while it's true that he as Darth Krayt advanced in power and skill, the idea that he would make up for that gap is unfunded (leaving aside the discussion of who's the better Maul or Obi-Wan).

H2H combat:
Both Krayt and Maul are actually pretty well trained in H2H combat, e.g. both mastered Teras Kasi, but I still think Maul is better in this area because of the fact that he demonstrated his prowess against better opponents then Krayt has(e.g. Maul disarming Savage Opress).

Force Power:
In terms of Force Power Krayt has been named as vastly more powerful then the other Sith of his Order (including Wyyrlock, Nihl, Talon,...) while Maul as a (true) Sith Apprentice is placed above characters like Ventress, Sedriss, Grand Inquisitor, ... and by feats he's demonstrated to be Obi-Wan's, Grand Inquisitor's, Seventh Sister's, ... superior. I believe that Maul's power in the Force, especially in the area of TK, is superior because of how he dominated Obi-Wan who has lifted up giant airships years before AotC and his superiority over the GI (who himself is superior to the other Inquisitors who are again superior/comparable to Kanan) when realising how Kanan was lifting up giant catwalks years before Rebels and the fact that the Inquisitors were raising the Jedi Temple on Lothal (which is between 84 -100 meters in height) despite the Temple only allowing Light Side users in.

On a side note, Krayt's lightning might prove difficult for Maul to counter in certain scenarios.

Conclusion:
Maul's shown to be superior in all relevant areas of combat (lightsaber skill, H2H combat and Force Power) by accolades and feats.

EDIT: I only now saw that it's only a Force battle F*cking hilarious.

This post editing debating must be the most cancerous, childish, cringy shit I've seen my entire miserable life. And I've seen some top tier cancer before.

Now we've entered the "I can't answer so I'm going to put out troll comments" phase, funny.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
F*cking hilarious.

Then counter it buddy.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Now we've entered the "I can't answer so I'm going to put out troll comments" phase, funny.
I'll answer tomorrow.
If Beni/Zoltan/whoever wants, he can do it instead.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Then counter it buddy. Pls don't make me, I might get cancur.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Pls don't make me, I might get cancur.

Don't really care.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Pls don't make me, I might get cancur. https://cdn.meme.am/instances/67067294.jpg

Seriously tho DD how can you possibly conclude Maul his superior to Krayt when he "far outstrips" the telekinetic ability to do this:

http://i.imgur.com/G0YTfWa.jpg http://i.imgur.com/LyqHBOO.jpg

And no, they weren't just collapsing the supports, otherwise it would have 1. crushed them underneath 2. never reached the intended targets, which as you can see are a fair distance away.

Instead the satellite was undoubtedly launched.

Now, let's just get a proper idea of how big this satellite is (hint: f*cking massive):

http://i.imgur.com/lD2lMT1.jpg

Yeah. And you see those ships? About the size of the vaunted blimp Kenobi suspended, with Anakin's help. Or in other words, not comparable in the f*cking slightest.

And remember, Krayt can't just pull of this feat, rather he far outstrips it. Yeah, Maul does not compare. And don't even bring up levitating frikken catwalks lmfao.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Seriously tho DD how can you possibly conclude Maul his superior to Krayt when he "far outstrips" the telekinetic ability to do this:

http://i.imgur.com/G0YTfWa.jpg http://i.imgur.com/LyqHBOO.jpg

And no, they weren't just collapsing the supports, otherwise it would have 1. crushed them underneath 2. never reached the intended targets, which as you can see are a fair distance away.

Instead the satellite was undoubtedly launched.

Now, let's just get a proper idea of how big this satellite is (hint: f*cking massive):

http://i.imgur.com/lD2lMT1.jpg

Yeah. And you see those ships? About the size of the vaunted blimp Kenobi suspended, with Anakin's help. Or in other words, not comparable in the f*cking slightest.

And remember, Krayt can't just pull of this feat, rather he far outstrips it. Yeah, Maul does not compare. And don't even bring up levitating frikken catwalks lmfao.

What? They didn't undoubtly launch it, they collapsed it. We clearly see on the picture that it only has a downward motion (vertical), not a horizontal so no they didn't launch it.

Because they launched it downward.

I mean it should be pretty obvious from their gestures that they are not just pulling it down (i.e, on top of themselves.)

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Because they launched it downward.

I mean it should be pretty obvious from their gestures that they are not just pulling it down (i.e, on top of themselves.)

They aren't standing under it, they just push it which causes it to fall down. You're saying that they moved the satellite horizontally while holding it up at the same time and then letting it drop on the Sith (or whatever they are)? The picture clearly shows that the satellite has a perfect vertical motion, not a horizontal one you would expect when you would throw/launch something.

Um they are? You can see it looming over them in the first set of panels.

And no I'm saying they launched it diagonally. On the other hand this:

http://i.imgur.com/LyqHBOO.jpg

Doesn't clearly show anything, the panel is heavily stylised. Pay attention to how it appears as if the Sith are on an incline when they are in fact standing on flat terrain. You can't garner anything meaningful from the panel.

On the other hand the others panels make it quite clear what is happening.

Honestly, Wredd and Jao would only need to give it enough of a tug to somewhat move it, then let gravity do the rest.

So yeah...

They would have had to rip it away as well, however you spin it.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Um they are? You can see it looming over them in the first set of panels.

And no I'm saying they launched it diagonally. On the other hand this:

http://i.imgur.com/LyqHBOO.jpg

Doesn't clearly show anything, the panel is heavily stylised. Pay attention to how it appears as if the Sith are on an incline when they are in fact standing on flat terrain. You can't garner anything meaningful from the panel.

On the other hand the others panels make it quite clear what is happening.

It's not looming over them, you see the satellite in the background but that's it. There is also no shadow or anything which would suggest it's hanging over them.

it shows that the satellite comes vertically down if you take the surface as horizontal reference, it's not that difficult.

Look at the very first panel darling, very closely. What is that black thing above him? Ah yes the satellite.

And like I said, the second panel's perspective is warped.

You also haven't addressed why they are gesturing as if attempting to force something forwards, or how it somehow managed to become directly beneath the satellite when the previous panel shows them a good distance away.

Yeah, but by how much? The structure itself doesn't seem quite so stable and upon looking at the two scans of them bringing it down, I realized they only brought down a portion of it(less than half) and that they weren't right under it, they were a few meters away, and the satellite was positioned right over the Sith.

All they'd need to do is give it enough of a nudge, which isn't really that big a feat.

Given the satellite is several hundred if not several thousand meters in diameter, yes it is that big a feat, even if they only launched half.

Several hundred/thousand? Say wut now?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Look at the very first panel darling, very closely. What is that black thing above him? Ah yes the satellite.

And like I said, the second panel's perspective is warped.

You also haven't addressed why they are gesturing as if attempting to force something forwards, or how it somehow managed to become directly beneath the satellite when the previous panel shows them a good distance away.

Look at the middle panel above on the first picture, you can see Wredd and look at him from a downward perspective and guess what, there is nothing hanging over him.

Warped? it's tilted, yes but you can still clearly see the surface and what the horizon should be etc. Stop with the excuses Beni.

They toppled it, making it fall downward. Not that impressive, much like Wollf already explained.

So? One panel doesn't contradict the other, that just means it was a bit higher Christ.

And yes warped, as in distorted, but in a more literal sense the horizon isn't straight either. And in a general sense, any one panel is going to provide a limited perspective regardless.

As for excuses, I still haven't heard the full list of yours from the various problems with this reading, get to it pls.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
So? One panel doesn't contradict the other, that just means it was a bit higher Christ.

And yes warped, as in distorted, but in a more literal sense the horizon isn't straight either. And in a general sense, any one panel is going to provide a limited perspective regardless.

As for excuses, I still haven't heard the full list of yours from the various problems with this reading, get to it pls.

No you can see what is above Wredd's head, there is nothing man.

No it isn't.

Mine? I've presented what the picture tells us, you've been performing some mental gymnastics in order to prove your point.

http://i.imgur.com/cnIVfzC.jpg

Please stop replying if you have nothing to say.

Myth estimated the size of the Sattelite:

Originally posted by MythLord
Jesus he's manipulating something 120 meters wide and 50-something meters tall

Cut out the Je suis part... Autocorrect made Jesus Je suis, which is Frecnh for "I am"...

So it's I am manipulating something 120 meters wide and 50-something meters tall.

Guys... This is pretty simple.

http://i.imgur.com/qiqGLL4.jpg?1

Army in the distance. Satellite right above.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
http://i.imgur.com/cnIVfzC.jpg

Please stop replying if you have nothing to say.

Ninja'ed.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
No you can see what is above Wredd's head, there is nothing man.

No it isn't.

Mine? I've presented what the picture tells us, you've been performing some mental gymnastics in order to prove your point.

How is he the one doing mental gymnastics when you can clearly see the satellite right above them and the army in the far distance. Jeezus...

Syn gets it.

Syn understands.

Yes, I am sure the army stood there while Wredd and Jao grunted and shat their guts out trying to move it... Perfectly valid.

They didn't charge or anything? Why would they? It's not like they're SITH.

So proud of you, Syn. Here's a pellycan:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/7d/b0/7c/7db07cf215e2b2b55545d4011d25c05b.jpg

I hate you Beni.

Originally posted by Beniboybling

Originally posted by MythLord
Cut out the Je suis part... Autocorrect made Jesus Je suis, which is Frecnh for "I am"...
Oh, that wasn't what you intended.
I thought you would get really crazy
Sry

Originally posted by MythLord
Yes, I am sure the army stood there while Wredd and Jao grunted and shat their guts out trying to move it... Perfectly valid.

They didn't charge or anything? Why would they? It's not like they're SITH.

There's no pause. The only gap between their efforts and the throwing of the satellite was Wredd asking Jao for help. He does so and then they launch it.

Granted the army would have gotten a little closer during the time they were speaking but how much distance they could have covered is up to debate.

Even I wouldn't try to argue for Maul > Krayt.

Originally posted by ILS
Even I wouldn't try to argue for Maul > Krayt.
Where do you rank Vong Krayt, Reborn Krayt and Wyyrlok force-wise?

I would and will argue Maul > Krayt if evidence (feats) points toward it.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
I would and will argue Maul > Krayt if evidence (feats) points toward it.
The evidence doesn't, tho.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
I would and will argue Maul > Krayt if evidence (feats) points toward it.

They don't though...

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Where do you rank Vong Krayt, Reborn Krayt and Wyyrlok force-wise?

He has Reborn Krayt as the highest secondary tier above Revan, Vader, Caedus, etc.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
He has Reborn Krayt as the highest secondary tier above Revan, Vader, Caedus, etc.
I know where he has him roughly.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
http://i.imgur.com/cnIVfzC.jpg

Please stop replying if you have nothing to say.

That's in front of him, not above him.

Leaving out the satellite feat which is a discussion on itself, yes he it does. What else has Krayt done that's supposedly impressive?

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Indeed, I agree with this. Seriously though, it actually like to see some proof since until now it's just been the "I like that character more so he's better" game.

Lmao, the irony. Not even ILS believes Maul wins. That should tell you how biased your ass is.

It's not about what I want to believe but rather what feats say, if Maul's shown to be superior through accomplishments then I don't care if you or ILS like it or not.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Leaving out the satellite feat which is a discussion on itself, yes he it does. What else has Krayt done that's supposedly impressive?
Scaling from Cade's ship throwing feat.
Also, the satellite feat is legit, KEK.

EXCEPT HE ISN'T!!! HOLY SHIT!!! USE SOME ****ING COMMON SENSE!!!

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
That's in front of him, not above him. facepalm

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
EXCEPT HE ISN'T!!! HOLY SHIT!!! USE SOME ****ING COMMON SENSE!!!
Ninja'd

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Lmao, the irony. Not even ILS believes Maul wins. That should tell you how biased your ass is. It's not even a case of bias; Krayt has Maul beat in every important area.

TK: Leave out the Satellite scaling if you want, even though there's nothing wrong with it. Vong Krayt's TK "far surpasses" everyone in his Sith's order. That includes Wyyrlok, who is more powerful than anyone in the Order barring Krayt.

That includes Nihl, who choked out Cade Skywalker; say what you want about this showing, if you're arguing from Maul's viewpoint and you want to bring up choking Obi-Wan, you need to accept Nihl's feat to avoid hypocrisy. A point I would make for the feat is the fact that we've seen Starkiller break out of Vader's chokehold after he was caught in it, and caught off-guard like Cade, and we've also had Caedus musing that he could try and break out of Luke's TK hold over him, just that he wasn't strong enough. The excuse that "Cade was unprepared" would need better justification to pass, for me.

And Cade, as some may know, threw a starship off into the horizon, out of sight. This was at the beginning of the series. It was his first use of TK after about 7 years of trying to numb himself to the Force with drugs. Nihl choked him after being retrained as a Jedi.

In other words, Vong Krayt is at the top of a pile of very powerful people, head and shoulders.

Lightning: Much more powerful than Wyyrlok's according to Fact File. Wyyrlok's lightning has shattered stone pillars, and killed nearly a dozen Force sensitives.

Sabers: Defeated Cade Skywalker, who in one sitting clearly defeated both Talon and Nihl. Talon single handedly held off Shado Vao and Wolf Sazen in saber combat and then took them both out with TK/Lightning. These two Jedi have fought together for years and have a long history of killing Sith while badly outnumbered, Shado in particular is suggested to be something of a lightsaber savant with his "has yet to meet his equal with a blade" accolade.

Nihl is better than Talon.

Also, A'Sharad Hett put up a very respectable fight against Obi-Wan literally over a century before his incarnation in this thread. During that time he "killed countless opponents " and "perfected his combat skills". In addition to his added combat experience and training (which facilitates growth in power and lightsaber skill), he grew far more powerful as a Sith, which would aid him with augmenting himself and anticipating opponents in combat via precog.

As for the fight with Kenobi itself, I'll address some common discrepancies. "The sand gave Hett an unfair advantage". Yes, he was a little more familiar on sand, but Obi-Wan wasn't hindered, because as we've seen, the likes of Maul and Qui-Gon had no issue adapting to the sand on Tatooine. "Obi-Wan was holding back until he got serious." There's no basis for him holding back in a life threatening situation. The momentum in fights change all the time for any number of reasons; just because you can isolate that Obi-Wan "got serious" after thinking of Luke, it doesn't mean he was holding back. That's something Obi-Wan would do in any fight scenario.

Then factor in that Krayt has a myriad of knowledge on the Sith techniques Maul lacks, including Force Drain which he was able to use against Abeloth and Luke Skywalker.

Speaking of Luke, we can mention that after he and Krayt fought Abeloth, both had suffered massive physical wounds, which were stated to be roughly equivalent (to the point neither could continue fighting each other). The difference was that Krayt got up and started walking soon after, meanwhile Luke was ready to accept death until the ghost of Mara encouraged him. Granted, Krayt as a Sith can feed off of pain for strength where Luke can't, but we're still talking about fricking Luke.

Didn't mean that you are biased, right the contrary.

I just meant that anyone can be biased, but you have to be totally misinformed to really believe Maul can take Krayt.

Pfff, you saw Legend, Neph, and Syn debate and you think bias has no boundaries?

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Pfff, you saw Legend, Neph, and Syn debate and you think bias has no boundaries? none of the above are human beings

Because DD9 said Maul > Krayt in the Force

Fair enough then, agree with all but this.

Originally posted by ILS


As for the fight with Kenobi itself, I'll address some common discrepancies. "The sand gave Hett an unfair advantage". Yes, he was a little more familiar on sand, but Obi-Wan wasn't hindered, because as we've seen, the likes of Maul and Qui-Gon had no issue adapting to the sand on Tatooine. "Obi-Wan was holding back until he got serious." There's no basis for him holding back in a life threatening situation. The momentum in fights change all the time for any number of reasons; just because you can isolate that Obi-Wan "got serious" after thinking of Luke, it doesn't mean he was holding back. That's something Obi-Wan would do in any fight scenario.



First, the novel still depicts that Hett has an advantage because he was more adept at fighting in the sands, you can't deny that since that's what the novel said. Second, it's obvious that he goes all out when he thinks about Luke or is it just coincidental that he moment he realizes he needs to defeat Hett for Luke's safety (= giving Obi-Wan a reason to actually try to kill Hett), he defeats him in a couple of moves? Doubt it, Hett was outmatched and outclassed when Obi-Wan actually considered a life or death situation where he had no other choice then to kill him.

Originally posted by ILS
none of the above are human beings

I wonder what are you compensate for?

Your failed grammar, obviously.

I think I know...

http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Kanan-vs-Maul-02.jpg

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
I wonder what are you compensate for? Them not being human removes them from the criteria of my post.

Yeah, Maul has no shot.

Maul vs Wyyrlok on the other hand...