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Could he last as long as Maul did?

With the same circumstances even longer.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
With the same circumstances even longer.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
With the same circumstances even longer.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
With the same circumstances even longer.

Sidious would tear his Soresu apart at the seams, and god help Obi-Wan if he tries an Ataru rush.

I think Maul's saving grace was just how ridiculously aggressive he is. He got overpowered that route, but it's better than turtling up against someone who knows every lightsaber form inside and out ambidextrously, with a huge speed and strength edge on top of that. He's basically a sitting duck at that point.

Interesting. Do you think Obi Wan and Yoda could have defeated Sidious together in ROTS?

Originally posted by Rebel95
Interesting. Do you think Obi Wan and Yoda could have defeated Sidious together in ROTS?

https://youtu.be/hwCeUYRRoRU?t=134

Nope.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
With the same circumstances even longer.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
With the same circumstances even longer.

Originally posted by ILS
Sidious would tear his Soresu apart at the seams, and god help Obi-Wan if he tries an Ataru rush.

I think Maul's saving grace was just how ridiculously aggressive he is. He got overpowered that route, but it's better than turtling up against someone who knows every lightsaber form inside and out ambidextrously, with a huge speed and strength edge on top of that. He's basically a sitting duck at that point.

Originally posted by ILS
Sidious would tear his Soresu apart at the seams, and god help Obi-Wan if he tries an Ataru rush.

I think Maul's saving grace was just how ridiculously aggressive he is. He got overpowered that route, but it's better than turtling up against someone who knows every lightsaber form inside and out ambidextrously, with a huge speed and strength edge on top of that. He's basically a sitting duck at that point.

The only reason Maul lasted even a second was because Sidious got some enjoyment out of watching his former apprentices pathetic and ultimately futile striving.

Maul defeated Sidious due to how aggressive he was fighting; he was driving him back at points and landed a kick. In the end he was overpowering him physically until Sidious decided to end it.

Seeing how easily Dooku was breaking through Kenobi's defense during TCW, I see no reason why he would last half the time Maul did. A RotS Kenobi maybe, but Maul was visibly super pissed after Savage's death which aided him. Not to mention he was implementing Jar Kai, an advantage Kenobi wouldn't have.

Originally posted by Kurk
Maul defeated Sidious

...

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
... Yeah he did physically in saber combat. Sidious was being pushed down and he had to call upon a boost to augment his strength to push back Maul and ragdoll him.

http://static9.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/48954/4972641-sid+vs+maul+savage+maul+gallery.jpg

Originally posted by Kurk
Yeah he did physically in saber combat. Sidious was being pushed down and he had to call upon a boost to augment his strength to push back Maul and ragdoll him.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
http://static9.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/48954/4972641-sid+vs+maul+savage+maul+gallery.jpg Not a valid source

Originally posted by Kurk
Not a valid source

Originally posted by Kurk
Not a valid source

...

lmao what a retard.

You need to cite your sh1t.

Obviously joining Quanchi again has turned your head into a toilet bowl.

Originally posted by Kurk
Not a valid source

LMAO

"In an intense duel, he killed Savage and toyed with Maul"


What does that even mean? Because if we take that literally then it suggests he never toyed with Savage, but Only with Maul.

These episode guides only describe what we as audiences see. So I would suggest it's referring to the end of the fight when he's chucking Maul around all over the place. Hence it carrying on with "ultimately deciding not to kill his former apprentice."

Originally posted by Darth Thor
"In an intense duel, he killed Savage and toyed with Maul"


What does that even mean? Because if we take that literally then it suggests he never toyed with Savage, but Only with Maul.

These episode guides only describe what we as audiences see. So I would suggest it's referring to the end of the fight when he's chucking Maul around all over the place. Hence it carrying on with "ultimately deciding not to kill his former apprentice."

No, it doesn't say or suggest Sidious never toyed with Savage. Just because it was left out doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Originally posted by Azronger
No, it doesn't say or suggest Sidious never toyed with Savage. Just because it was left out doesn't mean it didn't happen.



I didn't say it didn't happen. I'm explaining to you how these episode guides work.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I didn't say it didn't happen. I'm explaining to you how these episode guides work.

Okay.

For those still not buying it, there's also these:

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11120/111205740/5209674-8096681939-maul%25.PNG

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11120/111205740/5209673-7545404486-sidio.PNG

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
The only reason Maul lasted even a second was because Sidious got some enjoyment out of watching his former apprentices pathetic and ultimately futile striving. If you subscribe to the idea that Sidious having a joyful, easy time of it is a blanket statement applying to the entire duel, and that he let Maul kick him and engage in an intense fight scene with him at the end only to end the fight at the exact moment when he wanted to, then surely, surely the notion that Obi-Wan could do better is made redundant?

You can't have your cake and eat it in this case. You want to suggest Maul "couldn't last a second" but also that Obi-Wan with "similar circumstances" could last even longer. So, what, two seconds? If you want to polish Obi-Wan's rim you need to either suggest Maul performed admirably or that both would get annihilated.

Originally posted by ILS
If you want to polish Obi-Wan's rim you need to either suggest Maul performed admirably or that both would get annihilated.

Yeah, Obi-Wan isn't exactly doing better when Sidious goes all-out.

And if Sidious is toying, then it's a void comparison anyways.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Yeah, Obi-Wan isn't exactly doing better when Sidious goes all-out.

And if Sidious is toying, then it's a void comparison anyways.

Originally posted by ILS
If you subscribe to the idea that Sidious having a joyful, easy time of it is a blanket statement applying to the entire duel, and that he let Maul kick him and engage in an intense fight scene with him at the end only to end the fight at the exact moment when he wanted to, then surely, surely the notion that Obi-Wan could do better is made redundant?

You can't have your cake and eat it in this case. You want to suggest Maul "couldn't last a second" but also that Obi-Wan with "similar circumstances" could last even longer. So, what, two seconds? If you want to polish Obi-Wan's rim you need to either suggest Maul performed admirably or that both would get annihilated.

Fair point. It depends on how amusing Obi Wan would be during the fight I suppose.

Maybe some witty commentary will get a chuckle from old Palpie.

Originally posted by Kurk
Maul defeated Sidious Originally posted by Kurk
Not a valid source Kurk overtakes DD as the dumbest member on the board.

Kurk's just trolling.

If only that were true.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Kurk's just trolling.
You just want to be #1 place

Originally posted by Ursumeles
You just want to be #1 place

If I were you I wouldn't be talking shit until I actually managed to respond to our debate, fuggot.

Regardless, Maul was pushing Sidious down and landed a kick on him. Sidious was not toying during that section of the fight.

Originally posted by Kurk
Regardless, Maul was pushing Sidious down and landed a kick on him. Sidious was not toying during that section of the fight.

LMAO

Originally posted by Azronger
LMAO

Originally posted by Kurk
Regardless, Maul was pushing Sidious down and landed a kick on him. Sidious was not toying during that section of the fight.

Except it's stated he was.

Just cuz Maul landed a kick and Sidious "seemed angry" is irrelevant, since the exact same thing happened in their spar in TPM where Maul saw his master getting driven back desperately just to immediately get overwhelmed and realize: "Oh, this was a test, the dude held back and he's just now trying..."

Originally posted by MythLord
Except it's stated he was.

Just cuz Maul landed a kick and Sidious "seemed angry" is irrelevant, since the exact same thing happened in their spar in TPM where Maul saw his master getting driven back desperately just to immediately get overwhelmed and realize: "Oh, this was a test, the dude held back and he's just now trying..." That's because the entire object of the exercise was for Sidious to test Maul and see if he would be willing to kill him. You can't claim the same for this fight.

Originally posted by MythLord
Except it's stated he was.

Just cuz Maul landed a kick and Sidious "seemed angry" is irrelevant, since the exact same thing happened in their spar in TPM where Maul saw his master getting driven back desperately just to immediately get overwhelmed and realize: "Oh, this was a test, the dude held back and he's just now trying..." saying that Sidious toying with Maul is such a vague statement. He could've been toying with him just at the beginning and that statement would still stand. Maybe we should focus less on semantics and more on the actual fight and use our observational skills to see that Sidious was in-fact visibly stressed after Maul kicked him only to be pushed down during the bladelock.

Originally posted by ILS
That's because the entire object of the exercise was for Sidious to test Maul and see if he would be willing to kill him. You can't claim the same for this fight.

Sidious is a sadistic bastard as it is, his usual goal when fighting inferior foes(unless he's actually realizing they're threats and going all-out like Yoda or Vaapad! Mace) is just to goof around with them.
You cannot deny the parallels between Maul's test with Sidious near TPM and this fight, and it's possible just by comparing the two to deduce that Sheev wasn't trying against Maul.

Then StarWars.com, Filoni and Fact File come in and completely crush any ambiguity of Sidious holding back and practically confirm he's toying with Maul and he's barely tested.

Originally posted by Kurk
saying that Sidious toying with Maul is such a vague statement. He could've been toying with him just at the beginning and that statement would still stand. Maybe we should focus less on semantics and more on the actual fight and use our observational skills to see that Sidious was in-fact visibly stressed after Maul kicked him only to be pushed down during the bladelock.

Don't be retarded. Toying obviously means Sidious isn't trying his hardest, especially when you have sources like Fact File stating he was "barely tested". Your observational skills have Maul landing a kick on Sidious, which the latter likely just allowed since Filoni noted Palpatine is literally untouchable by Maul, and then Sidious laughing at him in a bladelock and disarming him? So that means Sidious is gonna be going all-out?
Hilarious.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
https://youtu.be/hwCeUYRRoRU?t=134

Nope.
That's only saying Obi Wan couldn't beat Sidious alone, obviously. But what if they decided to fight him together?

Originally posted by Rebel95
That's only saying Obi Wan couldn't beat Sidious alone, obviously. But what if they decided to fight him together?

Not really Yoda flat out says he isn't strong enough, makes no mention of just being alone.

Originally posted by MythLord
Sidious is a sadistic bastard as it is, his usual goal when fighting inferior foes(unless he's actually realizing they're threats and going all-out like Yoda or Vaapad! Mace) is just to goof around with them.
You cannot deny the parallels between Maul's test with Sidious near TPM and this fight, and it's possible just by comparing the two to deduce that Sheev wasn't trying against Maul.

Then StarWars.com, Filoni and Fact File come in and completely crush any ambiguity of Sidious holding back and practically confirm he's toying with Maul and he's barely tested.



Don't be retarded. Toying obviously means Sidious isn't trying his hardest, especially when you have sources like Fact File stating he was "barely tested". Your observational skills have Maul landing a kick on Sidious, which the latter likely just allowed since Filoni noted Palpatine is literally untouchable by Maul, and then Sidious laughing at him in a bladelock and disarming him? So that means Sidious is gonna be going all-out?
Hilarious. And you know what Sidious was doing before he started laughing? He was straining against Maul until he overpowered him through increased augmentation. Sidious also toyed with Mace and he ended up getting fu*ked for it as his opponents gained more momentum.

Originally posted by Kurk
And you know what Sidious was doing before he started laughing? He was straining against Maul until he overpowered him through increased augmentation. Sidious also toyed with Mace and he ended up getting fu*ked for it as his opponents gained more momentum.

It's confirmed he faked exhaustion/defeat at the hands of Mace, so he didn't end up getting fvked.

And straining? Just because he's scowling doesn't mean he's straining, lmao; otherwise Mace was strained in breaking bladelocks with Asajj Ventress... T
he fact that he overpowered Maul, and is confirmed to have been "barely tested" and "toying" while Maul is rage-amped completely invalidates your entire argument and just means Sidious pulled off his usual goofing around with opponents.

That isn't Sidious straining; this is: https://youtu.be/9DI8kkR9G0Q?t=150

Originally posted by MythLord
Sidious is a sadistic bastard as it is, his usual goal when fighting inferior foes(unless he's actually realizing they're threats and going all-out like Yoda or Vaapad! Mace) is just to goof around with them.
You cannot deny the parallels between Maul's test with Sidious near TPM and this fight, and it's possible just by comparing the two to deduce that Sheev wasn't trying against Maul.

Then StarWars.com, Filoni and Fact File come in and completely crush any ambiguity of Sidious holding back and practically confirm he's toying with Maul and he's barely tested.The difference is that the premise given for Sidious' intent in the Mandalore duel is that Maul and Savage are "threats" which he is personally dealing with, but in the TPM test we know that he was prepping Maul to become a Sith Lord.

Sidious was clearly not at his most desperate hour and for most of the encounter was having a great time, but I can't really reconcile what Maul managed against him at the end.

Sidious was kicked earlier in the fight and laughed jovially. When Maul kicked him at the end he looked pissed. I would suggest that the summaries given for the fight refer to it by-and-large, i.e Sidious prolonging the duel early on, and toying with Maul with TK, and perhaps not referring to the part where Maul kicked Sidious and pissed him off. You have to sacrifice a degree of reasoning ability to use the quotes as a blanket statement for every single moment in the duel.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Kurk overtakes DD as the dumbest member on the board.

Come on now, we still have Legend, Syn, and Neph.

Originally posted by ILS
The difference is that the premise given for Sidious' intent in the Mandalore duel is that Maul and Savage are "threats" which he is personally dealing with, but in the TPM test we know that he was prepping Maul to become a Sith Lord.

Sidious was clearly not at his most desperate hour and for most of the encounter was having a great time, but I can't really reconcile what Maul managed against him at the end.

Sidious was kicked earlier in the fight and laughed jovially. When Maul kicked him at the end he looked pissed. I would suggest that the summaries given for the fight refer to it by-and-large, i.e Sidious prolonging the duel early on, and toying with Maul with TK, and perhaps not referring to the part where Maul kicked Sidious and pissed him off. You have to sacrifice a degree of reasoning ability to use the quotes as a blanket statement for every single moment in the duel.

I think Sidious getting kicked by Maul, while not something Sidious allowed, is just because Sidious clearly wasn't going all-out which allowed Maul to tag him. I'll admit, Sidious got pissed off afterwards but then just after that he was laughing at Maul after disarming him.

The fact that SW.com, Fact File and Filoni all confirm Sidious as practically untouchable by Maul means Maul only landed a kick because Sidious at the time wasn't really fighting at his apex or close to it.

Originally posted by MythLord
I think Sidious getting kicked by Maul, while not something Sidious allowed, is just because Sidious clearly wasn't going all-out which allowed Maul to tag him. I'll admit, Sidious got pissed off afterwards but then just after that he was laughing at Maul after disarming him.

The fact that SW.com, Fact File and Filoni all confirm Sidious as practically untouchable by Maul means Maul only landed a kick because Sidious at the time wasn't really fighting at his apex or close to it. Is there anything to suggest Sidious was fighting complacently? I can get toying with someone, but not to the extent that you start letting yourself take hits. I think Maul just put up a decent fight that Sidious wasn't anticipating.

Originally posted by ILS
Is there anything to suggest Sidious was fighting complacently? I can get toying with someone, but not to the extent that you start letting yourself take hits. I think Maul just put up a decent fight that Sidious wasn't anticipating.

The fact that Sheev wasn't anticipating it is exactly why Maul even tagged him. I mean, Dave said Sidious is untouchable to Maul and FactFile says he's barely been tested.

It just seems likely that Maul's kick was at a stage of the fight where Sidious obviously wasn't even beginning to tap into his reserves, but once he did... see the following bladelock.

I think we agree Sidious wasn't trying to annihilate Maul, which is why he did as well as he did. But at the same time, I would argue that there's plenty of people who, with the same circumstances, wouldn't have done as well as Maul.

One of them is Obi-Wan, just due to style. There's also people, like Savage, who are flat out not good enough.

Originally posted by ILS
I think we agree Sidious wasn't trying to annihilate Maul, which is why he did as well as he did. But at the same time, I would argue that there's plenty of people who, with the same circumstances, wouldn't have done as well as Maul.

One of them is Obi-Wan, just due to style. There's also people, like Savage, who are flat out not good enough.

Well yeah, sure, but Maul is better than a vast majority of SW characters anyways.

ILS, in Shadow Conspiracy, Sidious speedblitzes Maul. He absolutely wasn't going all-out when Maul kicked him.

Originally posted by Azronger
ILS, in Shadow Conspiracy, Sidious speedblitzes Maul. He absolutely wasn't going all-out when Maul kicked him. I didn't say he was. Refer to this:
Originally posted by ILS
I think we agree Sidious wasn't trying to annihilate Maul, which is why he did as well as he did. But at the same time, I would argue that there's plenty of people who, with the same circumstances, wouldn't have done as well as Maul.

One of them is Obi-Wan, just due to style. There's also people, like Savage, who are flat out not good enough.

Originally posted by MythLord
I mean, Dave said Sidious is untouchable to Maul and FactFile says he's barely been tested.




Well factfile isn't canon, but is fine for discussing Legends or Canon/Legends composite.

Dave saying Sidious is untouchable though could be referring to the fact that Sidious could have TK stomped them anytime he wanted. In fact we see that at the beginning of the fight and regarding the end of the fight he says something like "once Sidious has had enough he puts his Lightsabers away and Maul's Maul".

The "toying" on the official website could also be referring to Sidious TK stomping Maul at the end.

So these statements are not necessarily blanket statements that apply literally for every part of the fight.

Btw in the episode featurette on the official site, Filoni also said that Savage put up a better fight against Sidious than the 3 Council members. That wouldn't make any sense if Sidious never tried at all against the brothers.

On the ther hand you're probably right, because once someone is holding back it's impossible to know how much and for how long. Just saying those statements by Filoni and the website aren't as black and white as you suggest.

Originally posted by Darth Thor


Btw in the episode commentary on the official site, Filoni also said that Savage put up a better fight against Sidious than the 3 Council members. That wouldn't make any sense if Sidious never tried at all against the brothers.

Actually, that makes sense because Sidious wasn't trying. Savage isn't naturally better than all three of those Jedi, that's ridiculous. The difference was that Sidious went all-out against the B-team, but didn't do so against Savage. Hence, Savage lasted much longer and appeared to put up a better fight. In reality, if Sidious had gone all-out, Savage would've died instantly as well. The fact that Sidious held back is why Savage gave off the appearance of putting up a better fight.

Anyways, all evidence suggests that Sidious was toying with them.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Actually, that makes sense because Sidious wasn't trying. Savage isn't naturally better than all three of those Jedi, that's ridiculous. The difference was that Sidious went all-out against the B-team, but didn't do so against Savage. Hence, Savage lasted much longer and appeared to put up a better fight. In reality, if Sidious had gone all-out, Savage would've died instantly as well. The fact that Sidious held back is why Savage gave off the appearance of putting up a better fight.



If you listen to the featurette that doesn't seem to be what Filoni is suggesting at all. Because he specifically gives Savage credit for putting up a better fight than the Council members.

It would make no sense for him to even bring that up if the context was what you're suggesting.

Filoni's interviews also suggest that Sidious was holding back, so no, he does seem to be factoring in such a context.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Filoni's interviews also suggest that Sidious was holding back, so no, he does seem to be factoring in such a context.


He specifically gives Savage credit for that.

It could make sense if Sidious didn't hold back during every single clash of blades throughout a duel which has been described as "intense."

Also Sidious holding back against the Brothers in TK would be irrelevant given he never utilised TK on the Council members.

He gives Savage credit for lasting longer, in essence. He makes it clear that Sidious held back.

Also, duels can be "intense", "spectacular", "brutal", etc. and still be one-sided.

Your last point more or less proves my point. The holding back refers to lightsaber combat, a notion supported by other supplementary material.

Originally posted by MythLord
It's confirmed he faked exhaustion/defeat at the hands of Mace, so he didn't end up getting fvked.

And straining? Just because he's scowling doesn't mean he's straining, lmao; otherwise Mace was strained in breaking bladelocks with Asajj Ventress... T
he fact that he overpowered Maul, and is confirmed to have been "barely tested" and "toying" while Maul is rage-amped completely invalidates your entire argument and just means Sidious pulled off his usual goofing around with opponents.

That isn't Sidious straining; this is: https://youtu.be/9DI8kkR9G0Q?t=150 Tell me, if Sidious was truly toying around, why did he allow him to land a kick on him and allow Maul be on top during the blade-lock?

Originally posted by Kurk
Tell me, if Sidious was truly toying around, why did he allow him to land a kick on him and allow him be on top during the blade-lock?

He was compensating.

Originally posted by SunRazer
He gives Savage credit for lasting longer, in essence. He makes it clear that Sidious held back.




Nope. He says Savage "put up a better fight."

Again watch the featurette and then tell me he means "Savage lasted longer because Sidious was screwing with him but didn't screw with the Council."


Originally posted by SunRazer


Also, duels can be "intense", "spectacular", "brutal", etc. and still be one-sided.


Nobody claimed it wasn't a one sided fight.


Originally posted by SunRazer


Your last point more or less proves my point. The holding back refers to lightsaber combat, a notion supported by other supplementary material.

I don't see how my point proves yours.

The only supplementary material I know of which supports that is Shadow Conspiracy. But the part that suggests that doesn't happen in the final episode.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
He was compensating.

Originally posted by Kurk
Tell me, if Sidious was truly toying around, why did he allow him to land a kick on him and allow Maul be on top during the blade-lock?

Feigning weakness is totally congruent with "toying around".

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
He was compensating. lol compensating for what? His lack of balls? His discontent with saber combat in general?

Originally posted by Kurk
lol compensating for what? His lack of balls? His discontent with saber combat in general?

Idk, ask ILS. He's the resident psychiatrist.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Idk, ask ILS. He's the resident psychiatrist. Did you forget the part where I said:

ILS is an MD?

Yes.

Mentally disturbed

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Nope. He says Savage "put up a better fight."

Again watch the featurette and then tell me he means "Savage lasted longer because Sidious was screwing with him but didn't screw with the Council."

I can tell you that indeed. Filoni claims that Sidious is enjoying himself the entire time and that Savage and Maul can't even touch him (whereas they do touch him in the real fight, implying that he held back and allowed them to do so).



No, but words like "spectacular", "brutal", "intense" etc. don't preclude a character holding back either.



Per the website, Sidious was toying with Maul after killing Savage. And we know it's not referring to the ragdolling, since Filoni claims that's the part where "Sidious goes all in and mauls Maul, so to speak".

Sidious ws laughing and clearly taking a casual approach to the fight with the night brothers. Even when he was kicked away he was totally calm and casually Force pulled both of them to him simultaneously

Originally posted by relentless1
Sidious ws laughing and clearly taking a casual approach to the fight with the night brothers. Even when he was kicked away he was totally calm and casually Force pulled both of them to him simultaneously You mean headbutted. And he laughs in all his fights regardless so it's pretty meaningless.

Originally posted by Kurk
Tell me, if Sidious was truly toying around, why did he allow him to land a kick on him and allow Maul be on top during the blade-lock?

On top during a bladelock? Maybe because Maul is taller and thus has superior leverage? He seems to get rid of that pesky problem rather quickly.

As for the kick, we've already discussed that. How mentally unbalanced are you to be incapable of reading through? Sidious wasn't even going all-out nor trying when Maul landed a kick; it was a move that Sheev simply didn't anticipate.

After the kick landed, and only afterwards does Sidious actually even begin to try and then he laughs at Maul and proceeds to disarm him after two seconds. Face the facts: your observational "skills" are both wrong and irrelevant, and what you arbitrarily make out as head-canon has been completely contradicted by a plethora of sources.

The only current good debater on the Maul brigade is ILS; leave the Maul hyping to him and you go polish Quanchi's boots.

Maul did more than just kick Sidious though, in the initial stages of the bout Maul was in fact driving him back. And the fact that he was "barely tested" means he was tested, if only just.

I agree with ILS, the idea that Sidious toying with Maul in a blanket sense (as opposed to at the end, when the term is most pertinent) requires a strained if not disingenuous reading of the fight.

A more sense making interpretation suggests that in his fury Maul proved an unexpected challenge for Sidious, who proceeded to unleash his full might and in doing so, easily overpowered him.

Doesn't matter. The point is the only reason Sidious was even kicked was due to him toying around and not expecting Maul to perform as well, otherwise Shadow Conspiracy has him essentially blitzing Maul and TCW has him swiftly overwhelming him in a bladelock.

Did Maul perform better than the vast majority of Star Wars characters could? Sure, but he was also enraged and, quite frankly, we don't need the Sidious fight to assume Maul is better than the vast majority of SW characters.

It does matter actually, as there is a difference between conceding a hit in a lax state and being actually driven back. The former is a forgivable lapse, the latter is being challenged by your opponent over a sustained period, and brings into question the extent to which he maintained complacency.

And as far as his "rage amp" is concerned, that's something people like to bring up a lot, but tend to ignore the fact that Maul would also have been fatigued. I'm inclined to believe one mitigates the other. Whereas in the novel no mention of rage is given at all, only Maul's desperation.

Originally posted by SunRazer
I can tell you that indeed. Filoni claims that Sidious is enjoying himself the entire time and that Savage and Maul can't even touch him (whereas they do touch him in the real fight, implying that he held back and allowed them to do so).



No, but words like "spectacular", "brutal", "intense" etc. don't preclude a character holding back either.



Per the website, Sidious was toying with Maul after killing Savage. And we know it's not referring to the ragdolling, since Filoni claims that's the part where "Sidious goes all in and mauls Maul, so to speak". Another post in which you accept one pro Palpatine statement and ignore another con Palpatine statement. This is why you're consistently criticized for because you use double standards.

Beni just took it to myth lord. Myth lords retort was it doesn't matter completely escaping the point and just dismissing it due to bias. Not on my watch. To be a respectable debater like myself you need to stay on point and always embrace the context of every given situation.

Originally posted by SunRazer
I can tell you that indeed. Filoni claims that Sidious is enjoying himself the entire time and that Savage and Maul can't even touch him (whereas they do touch him in the real fight, implying that he held back and allowed them to do so).





We seem to be going around in circles here given I've already addressed this.


Originally posted by SunRazer


Per the website, Sidious was toying with Maul after killing Savage. And we know it's not referring to the ragdolling, since Filoni claims that's the part where "Sidious goes all in and mauls Maul, so to speak".


On the contrary the 2 statements meld together quite nicely. The fact that Palpatine TK Maul's Maul only once he's had enough (as per Filoni) suggests he could have done that earlier, hence the Toying.


But none of that means he faked getting kicked or faked looking pissed while on his knees, or just generally faked the entirety of the Saber duel.

Yeah, choosing to engage Maul in a saber duel when he could have ended it with TK at any point would indeed constitute toying with him.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
It does matter actually, as there is a difference between conceding a hit in a lax state and being actually driven back. The former is a forgivable lapse, the latter is being challenged by your opponent over a sustained period, and brings into question the extent to which he maintained complacency.

The problem is: there was no driving back. The two traded blow after blow, fairly evenly. And obviously Sidious wasn't going all-out to begin with.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
And as far as his "rage amp" is concerned, that's something people like to bring up a lot, but tend to ignore the fact that Maul would also have been fatigued. I'm inclined to believe one mitigates the other. Whereas in the novel no mention of rage is given at all, only Maul's desperation.

A rage amp is more than enough to make up for exhaustion, given a rage amp was enough for Asajj Ventress, who was injured nigh-fatally, to choke both Anakin and Obi-Wan; or for Vos to go from getting danced around by Dooku to disarming him in short order; or for Anakin from stalemating Dooku to willing him to die. A rage amp is far more concrete than simply getting tired.

And that's an appeal to ignorance, darling. Just because it isn't stated doesn't mean it isn't obvious Maul will be angry at his brother dying.

Originally posted by MythLord
The problem is: there was no driving back. The two traded blow after blow, fairly evenly. And obviously Sidious wasn't going all-out to begin with.Uh.. there was?

https://i.imgflip.com/1e372s.gif

That's a good 7-8 seconds of Sidious being driven back, until he kicks Maul away and the momentum reverses.

Physical fatigue obviously has a much bigger impact on Force augmentation compared to TK ability. Anakin is an obvious exception and so is Vos, they were just getting a rage amp, but tapping in to the dark side for the first time. Maul is far more seated in his hate.

(EDIT: But nah, Ventress was nowhere near fatally injured, lmao.)

No it's not, because Maul's emotion was desperation, not a thirst for blood. On the other hand if we assume it was present regardless, the fact it was not at all noted upon only suggests it wasn't that significant.

What "fatigue" are you talking about? Maul fought assassin droids for a month or so on Hypori, lol.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Uh.. there was?

https://i.imgflip.com/1e372s.gif

That's a good 7-8 seconds of Sidious being driven back, until he kicks Maul away and the momentum reverses.

That's about as conclusive to the overall state of the fight as Asajj driving back Obi-Wan, or Shaak Ti driving back Galen, tbh. Sidious stepping back a bit doesn't constitute getting completely driven back, especially when it's noted he "never wavered from his position of superiority":

"Meanwhile, Sidious duels the Sith brothers, never wavering from his position of superiority."

-- The Lawless Episode Gallery

This isn't a blanket statement, this flat out says that Sidious was never in a state of disadvantage in the fight.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Physical fatigue obviously has a much bigger impact on Force augmentation compared to TK ability. Anakin is an obvious exception and so is Vos, they were just getting a rage amp, but tapping in to the dark side for the first time. Maul is far more seated in his hate.

(EDIT: But nah, Ventress was nowhere near fatally injured, lmao.)

Not neccessarily. And based on what would Vos and Anakin be exceptions? There's other examples to choose from: Anakin's rage allowing him to overpower Asajj whereas he was losing to her on Yavin IV; padawan Kenobi tapping into his rage and managing to disarm and kick Maul, and even drive him back a bit; Savage Opress goes from getting discarded by Dooku or Asajj to choking them both out, and plowing through Anakin and Obi-Wan; Malgus goes from fighting on relatively even terms with Aryn, to forcing her onto her knees in a bladelock, etc. etc. etc.

Maul being trained for it and having greater knowledge on how to exploit his rage would aid him into tapping into said anger to a greater extent than Vos or Anakin could; and just by comparing his respective performance against Sidious pre-Savage death and post-Savage death is enough to prove whatever "exhaustion" he might've had, the rage did more than enough to counter-balance it.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
No it's not, because Maul's emotion was desperation, not a thirst for blood. On the other hand if we assume it was present regardless, the fact it was not at all noted upon only suggests it wasn't that significant.

I'd imagine it'd be obvious, but fair enough.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Not really Yoda flat out says he isn't strong enough, makes no mention of just being alone.
I don't think you understand what I'm saying, or you just don't understand what Yoda is saying. Obi Wan asks to fight Sidious instead of Anakin, and Yoda tells Obi Wan that he's not strong enough to fight Sidious alone. "To fight this lord Sidious, strong enough, you are not."

My question is, what if they had decided to fight Sidious together?

Originally posted by MythLord
That's about as conclusive to the overall state of the fight as Asajj driving back Obi-Wan, or Shaak Ti driving back Galen, tbh. Sidious stepping back a bit doesn't constitute getting completely driven back, especially when it's noted he "never wavered from his position of superiority":

"Meanwhile, Sidious duels the Sith brothers, never wavering from his position of superiority."

-- The Lawless Episode Gallery

This isn't a blanket statement, this flat out says that Sidious was never in a state of disadvantage in the fight.Yeah obviously considering Maul didn't win. My suggestion isn't that Maul had the upper hand lol, only that Sidious was tested by his opponent, which brings into question how long he would have remained complacent.

I already said why, bringing up more examples of Jedi tapping into dark side rage doesn't help your case. Nor does bringing up Savage. Because all of these individuals have one thing in common, they are new to tapping into these emotions, they are discovering their power.

Again, Maul is deeply seated in his hate, getting pissed off about his brother is not going to rocket him up to new plateaus of power that he couldn't have already reached. Unless you care to argue this is more of a motivator than getting cut in half by Kenobi.

See above. And I really don't know what comparison you are drawing.

Originally posted by Rebel95
I don't think you understand what I'm saying, or you just don't understand what Yoda is saying. Obi Wan asks to fight Sidious instead of Anakin, and Yoda tells Obi Wan that he's not strong enough to fight Sidious alone. "To fight this lord Sidious, strong enough, you are not."

My question is, what if they had decided to fight Sidious together?

Yoda makes no mention of Obi-Wan fighting Sidious alone. He just says he's not strong enough, with or without Yoda.

Originally posted by Azronger
Yoda makes no mention of Obi-Wan fighting Sidious alone. He just says he's not strong enough, with or without Yoda.
No, he means that Kenobi isn't strong enough to fight Palpatine alone, lmfao.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
No, he means that Kenobi isn't strong enough to fight Palpatine alone, lmfao.
Right? I didn't think it was that hard to understand lol

Lol @ suggesting Kenobi wouldn't be f*cked either way.

Originally posted by Azronger
Yoda makes no mention of Obi-Wan fighting Sidious alone. He just says he's not strong enough, with or without Yoda.
It's pretty clear that he's saying Obi Wan alone isn't strong enough. Obi Wan asks Yoda to send him to fight Sidious, and Yoda tells him that he's not strong enough. "Strong enough, YOU are not"

Referring back to my question of what would happen if they fought Sidious together, I take it you all think Obi Wan wouldn't have been any help then?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yeah obviously considering Maul didn't win. My suggestion isn't that Maul had the upper hand lol, only that Sidious was tested by his opponent, which brings into question how long he would have remained complacent.

Barely tested, yeah. As for how long he remained complacent: I assume until Maul actually managed to tag him, but then we did see what happens after that either way.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I already said why, bringing up more examples of Jedi tapping into dark side rage doesn't help your case. Nor does bringing up Savage. Because all of these individuals have one thing in common, they are new to tapping into these emotions, they are discovering their power.

Again, Maul is deeply seated in his hate, getting pissed off about his brother is not going to rocket him up to new plateaus of power that he couldn't have already reached. Unless you care to argue this is more of a motivator than getting cut in half by Kenobi.

See above. And I really don't know what comparison you are drawing.

The fact that Maul is deepy seated in his hate means nothing if not the fact that he has the benefit of greater skill in drawing on said hate.
And one doesn't need to do mental gymnastics to assume the rage amp was more prelevant than his exhaustion when a non-exhausted Maul gets danced around by a holding back Sidious with the aid of his brother, while the rage-amped Maul actually manages to trade a few blows with him. So even assuming Anakin tapping into his rage, or Vos tapping into his rage is an outliar and cannot be applied to Maul, we can just as easily see Maul's performance against Sidious pre and post Savage death and gauge the rage-amp is superfluous to counterbalance the fatigue.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Lol @ suggesting Kenobi wouldn't be f*cked either way.
So then you're suggesting that Obi Wan would be a non factor if he and Yoda fought Sidious together?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
No, he means that Kenobi isn't strong enough to fight Palpatine alone, lmfao.

Kenobi: "Send me to kill the Emperor. I will not kill Anakin."

Yoda: "To fight this Lord Sidious, strong enough, you are not."

Now where is the word "alone" mentioned? That's right - it's not mentioned at all. And really, if Yoda thought Obi-Wan would've been of some help, they would've gone after both Sith together. Yoda isn't dumb. He knew Obi-Wan would die against Sidious either way.

Originally posted by Rebel95
So then you're suggesting that Obi Wan would be a non factor if he and Yoda fought Sidious together?
As Sidious could kill him with a single move, yes, I think that he suggest's that.

Here're Obi-Wan's thoughts regarding Yoda and him teaming up against Palpatine:

"Palpatine faced Mace and Agen and Kit and Saesee - four of the greatest swordsmen our Order has ever produced. By himself. Even both of us together wouldn't have a chance."

Originally posted by MythLord
Barely tested, yeah. As for how long he remained complacent: I assume until Maul actually managed to tag him, but then we did see what happens after that either way.But if Maul's ferocity is enough that Sids would backpedal, it seems more sense making that he'd ramp it up a gear when pushing back.

Of course it does. Like you just said, he's better at drawing on his hate, he doesn't need a rage amp to do so, and something like seeing his brother killed isn't enough to make a massive difference because he's not a noob, he can already tap in to that power.

More importantly though, you didn't answer my question.

No mental gymnastics here, only the logic that dramatic increments in power are exclusive to those still testing the boundaries of their abilities, not Sith Lords with total command over their hate.

And I never said Anakin and Vos are outliers. You're just not understanding the situation. Read the RotS novel, in it its described that Anakin comes to a realisation, draws fully on the dark side for the first time, and is rewarded with power. That power doesn't go away, he remains on that level for the rest of the novel. Likewise Vos doesn't get weaker, rather more seated in his power as the novel progresses. These rage amps aren't temporary boosts, they are rather catalysts for tapping into latent potential. Maul's potential is not latent, he's already seated in it, therefore a similar catalyst would not have such a dramatic effect, because that ceiling just isn't there to be broken.

What you need to stop doing is treating a "rage amp" as some kind of external fuel, its not, its just the matter of triggering an emotional state in which you can effectively draw on the dark side. But Maul needs no help in achieving that state. He's already there.

Originally posted by Azronger
Here're Obi-Wan's thoughts regarding Yoda and him teaming up against Palpatine:

"Palpatine faced Mace and Agen and Kit and Saesee - four of the greatest swordsmen our Order has ever produced. By himself. Even both of us together wouldn't have a chance."
As Kenobi is > Kolar/Fisto/Tiin, and Yoda > Mace and the other two, that statement is wrong.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
As Kenobi is > Kolar/Fisto/Tiin
Wtf.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
As Kenobi is > Kolar/Fisto/Tiin, and Yoda > Mace and the other two, that statement is wrong.

Ah, so you're an authority on canon, now?

Originally posted by Ursumeles
As Kenobi is > Kolar/Fisto/Tiin. What makes you say that?

Originally posted by ILS
What makes you say that?
His hype and feats are better. I don't mean them as trio, btw.

@Azronger Nope, but the Guy who statlemated Sidious should be above the guys whi got blitzed by him, imho.

Originally posted by Azronger
Kenobi: "Send me to kill the Emperor. I will not kill Anakin."

Yoda: "To fight this Lord Sidious, strong enough, you are not."

Now where is the word "alone" mentioned? That's right - it's not mentioned at all. And really, if Yoda thought Obi-Wan would've been of some help, they would've gone after both Sith together. Yoda isn't dumb. He knew Obi-Wan would die against Sidious either way.
I think it's pretty clearly implied when he asks Yoda to SEND HIM to fight the Emperor, not to go with Yoda to fight him. I agree, Obi Wan would probably die either way though.
Originally posted by Ursumeles
As Sidious could kill him with a single move, yes, I think that he suggest's that.
I'm not saying Obi Wan would help much, but the fact that Yoda (arguably) stalemated Sidious alone leads me to believe that Obi Wan could provide support, assuming he doesn't get TKed immediately. Sidious wouldn't be able to break through Obi Wan's soresu while dueling Yoda at the same time, so he would have to resort to using the force to take out Obi Wan, which yeah, I guess he could probably do at any point of the fight.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
His hype and feats are better. I don't mean them as trio, btw.Kenobi probably did tho.

Originally posted by Azronger
Here're Obi-Wan's thoughts regarding Yoda and him teaming up against Palpatine:

"Palpatine faced Mace and Agen and Kit and Saesee - four of the greatest swordsmen our Order has ever produced. By himself. Even both of us together wouldn't have a chance."
Interesting, I actually remember seeing that somewhere now. Not necessarily true though since Yoda had a very solid chance alone.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Kenobi probably did tho.
I said:
Kenobi > either one of them, bar Mace
Yoda > Mace + the other two

Or we take retarded character statements as fact now, and Tiin > Yoda and Kolar > Anakin as duelistmmm

Let's just all agree Kenobi would get oneshotted.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Let's just all agree Kenobi would get oneshotted.

Prolly, yeah.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Let's just all agree Kenobi would get oneshotted.
And that character opinions aren't infallible

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Let's just all agree Kenobi would get oneshotted.
Eh.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Let's just all agree Kenobi would get oneshotted.
He would last longer than Kit Fisto did, so no.

Nah, even Yoda has no chance if Sidious goes all-out. He's been stated to be able to defeat him in a pure lightsaber duel, has already defeated him in the Force and Yoda has no way to kill him. Obi-Wan wouldn't contribute shit and he's absolutely right in his statement I posted on the previous page.

Originally posted by Azronger
Nah, even Yoda has no chance if Sidious goes all-out. He's been stated to be able to defeat him in a pure lightsaber duel, has already defeated him in the Force and Yoda has no way to kill him. Obi-Wan wouldn't contribute shit and he's absolutely right in his statement I posted on the previous page.
So you're saying Yoda would win 0/10 against Sidious?

Yoda seemed more powerful in ROTS then Sidious did. Sidious has the "OH ****!!!" look on his face twice. First time when Yoda caught that Senate pod and reversed it's momentum back at Sidous and the second time when he pushed Sidious' lightning back towards him. Three if you count the time Yoda force pushed him across his office into his chair.

I agree, he definitely had a chance.

Originally posted by Rebel95
I agree, he definitely had a chance. He only had a small window to fight Sidious before the Stormtroopers showed up.

Originally posted by Azronger
He's been stated to be able to defeat him in a pure lightsaber duel,


Where? The script has Yoda disarming Sidious in the Saber duel. And the film doesn't contradict that.

Originally posted by Beniboybling


What you need to stop doing is treating a "rage amp" as some kind of external fuel, its not, its just the matter of triggering an emotional state in which you can effectively draw on the dark side. But Maul needs no help in achieving that state. He's already there.



I'm inclined to agree. Plus I don't recall any source confirming he was rage amped in Legends or Canon.

Originally posted by Azronger
Nah, even Yoda has no chance if Sidious goes all-out. He's been stated to be able to defeat him in a pure lightsaber duel, has already defeated him in the Force and Yoda has no way to kill him. Obi-Wan wouldn't contribute shit and he's absolutely right in his statement I posted on the previous page. So you're a Sidious fanboy. This post makes that very clear.

Originally posted by Rebel95
So you're saying Yoda would win 0/10 against Sidious?

Yes, if Sidious went all-out.

Originally posted by Azronger
Yes, if Sidious went all-out.



What you don't think he went all out on Yoda?

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Yoda seemed more powerful in ROTS then Sidious did. Sidious has the "OH ****!!!" look on his face twice. First time when Yoda caught that Senate pod and reversed it's momentum back at Sidous and the second time when he pushed Sidious' lightning back towards him. Three if you count the time Yoda force pushed him across his office into his chair.

Not true.

The Jedi Master and the Sith Lord dueled in the Senate chamber, but Sidious was too strong for Yoda to defeat.

-Databank: Coruscant History Gallery

Darth Sidious overwhelmed Master Yoda with the destructive energy of the dark side, and the Jedi Master fled Coruscant.

-Databank: Darth Sidious

Yoda is eventually outmatched by Sidious.

-Databank: Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith Story Gallery

There're others, too.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Where? The script has Yoda disarming Sidious in the Saber duel. And the film doesn't contradict that.

Outwardly frail, Palpatine was in truth a cunning warrior capable of besting even the greatest Jedi warrior in lightsaber combat or by conjuring powerfully destructive Force lightning.

http://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-101-servants-of-the-dark-side

Originally posted by Darth Thor
What you don't think he went all out on Yoda?

Apparently not. Even Yoda only went all-out during the middle of the duel according to the junior novel.

Originally posted by Azronger
Outwardly frail, Palpatine was in truth a cunning warrior capable of besting even the greatest Jedi warrior in lightsaber combat or by conjuring powerfully destructive Force lightning.

http://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-101-servants-of-the-dark-side


Pretty sure those articles are not canon.


In any case it only says "capable of besting.." That doesn't mean Yoda isn't also capable of besting Palpatine.


Edit: In fact I just checked and it's Justin Bolger who wrote the article. He doesn't officially work for Lucasfilm. They've just posted that article of his.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Pretty sure those articles are not canon.

Really?



Never said he wasn't.




Ah, okay. Nevermind, then.

Originally posted by Azronger
Really?

IIrc Ant linked a tweet saying they aren't.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Pretty sure those articles are not canon.

Originally posted by Azronger

Never said he wasn't.



Well you said Yoda has no way to kill him. Obviously if he can beat him in a Lightsaber fight then he could just stab him in the face. Not guaranteed still, but once he beats him in a duel it's certainly very possible.

Originally posted by Azronger
Not true.

The Jedi Master and the Sith Lord dueled in the Senate chamber, but Sidious was too strong for Yoda to defeat.

-Databank: Coruscant History Gallery

Darth Sidious overwhelmed Master Yoda with the destructive energy of the dark side, and the Jedi Master fled Coruscant.

-Databank: Darth Sidious

Yoda is eventually outmatched by Sidious.

-Databank: Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith Story Gallery

There're others, too.
Also, what's the point of quoting three things from the same source?

Originally posted by Rebel95
Interesting. Do you think Obi Wan and Yoda could have defeated Sidious together in ROTS?

Of course, Yoda was almost all that was needed anyways.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Kurk overtakes DD as the dumbest member on the board.

I thought that title belonged to QuanShoes?

Originally posted by MythLord
It's confirmed he faked exhaustion/defeat at the hands of Mace, so he didn't end up getting fvked.

And straining? Just because he's scowling doesn't mean he's straining, lmao; otherwise Mace was strained in breaking bladelocks with Asajj Ventress... T
he fact that he overpowered Maul, and is confirmed to have been "barely tested" and "toying" while Maul is rage-amped completely invalidates your entire argument and just means Sidious pulled off his usual goofing around with opponents.

That isn't Sidious straining; this is: https://youtu.be/9DI8kkR9G0Q?t=150

Doesn't really matter that he feigned weakness... he lost the fight. He was put in a position of likely defeat and tried another way. It worked, but let's not pretend like Mace didn't beat him.

Kenobi no doubt would get curbed, both would, so if we're picking we gets curbed the least... who the f knows

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well you said Yoda has no way to kill him. Obviously if he can beat him in a Lightsaber fight then he could just stab him in the face. Not guaranteed still, but once he beats him in a duel it's certainly very possible.

I said he can't kill Sidious if the latter goes all-out. Lightsabers are useless against him.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Also, what's the point of quoting three things from the same source?

They're from different databank entries.

Originally posted by Azronger
Lightsabers are useless against him.
Based on what?

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Based on what?

Based on this:

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11128/111282615/5390583-star_wars_yoda_vs_palpatine_lightsaber_knockout.gif

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11128/111282615/5335238-sidious+overpowers+yoda.png

Now Anakin was at Mace's shoulder. Palpatine still made no move to defend himself from Skywalker; instead he ramped up the lightning bursting from his hands, bending the fountain of Mace's blade back toward the Korun Master's face.

Originally posted by Azronger
Lightsabers are useless against him.


If that were true he wouldn't even bother carrying a Lightsaber. Let alone heavily relying on one when facing his 2 most dangerous adversaries Mace and Yoda.


Originally posted by Azronger
They're from different databank entries.


But all from the databank. There are other sources suggesting it was a stalemate or that Yoda could have won.


Originally posted by Azronger
Based on this:

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11128/111282615/5390583-star_wars_yoda_vs_palpatine_lightsaber_knockout.gif

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11128/111282615/5335238-sidious+overpowers+yoda.png





I think standing on the edge of a senate pod might have had so
Thing to do with that.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
If that were true he wouldn't even bother carrying a Lightsaber. Let alone heavily relying on one when facing his 2 most dangerous adversaries Mace and Yoda.

"The Sith grew past the use of lightsabers. But we continue to use them, if only to humiliate the Jedi."

―Darth Sidious

Originally posted by Darth Thor
But all from the databank. There are other sources suggesting it was a stalemate or that Yoda could have won.

Which sources? And there're even more claiming Sidious > Yoda



No, it didn't. Yoda would have lost his lightsaber/been flung brackwards regardless of where he was standing. Case in point:

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11128/111282615/5390565-star_wars_yoda_vs_palpatine_hd_quality.gif

A lightsaber appeared, green as sunlight in a forest. "The test of that, today will be."

"Even a fraction of the dark side is more power than your Jedi arrogance can conceive; living in the light, you have never seen the depth of the darkness."

The shadow spread arms that made its sleeves into black wings.

"Until now."

Lightning speared from outstretched hands, and the battle was on.

In the Senate Arena, lightning forked from the hands of a Sith, and bent away from the gesture of a Jedi to shock Redrobes into unconsciousness.

Then there were only the two of them.

Their clash transcended the personal; when new lightning blazed, it was not Palpatine burning Yoda with his hate, it was the Lord of all Sith scorching the Master of all Jedi into a smoldering huddle of clothing and green flesh.