Luke's training by the time of RotJ

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DarthDuelist9
In the beginning of Return of the Jedi Yoda confirms that Luke's training under him is done and that he has the necessarely knowledge to become a Jedi if he defeats Vader. Now many members have rejected the idea that this would put him on equal footing with Anakin Skywalker or Ahsoka Tano in terms of training and knowledge mainly because his training under Yoda only lasted for a short amount of time compared to that of the above mentioned characters.
This can be explained through several reasons, first there is the fact that Yoda, being the former Grandmaster of the Jedi Order and having 900 years of experience, is just a better and more knowledgeable teacher then Obi-Wan or Anakin (who's knowledge mainly comes from Obi-Wan). This would automatically enable Luke to grow faster then Anakin or Ahsoka.

Second, Luke started to train at a later age and while many would say that this is a disadvantage, it can actually explain his fast learning curve. It's a general known fact that the older you get, the more your body develops and allows you to study a bigger amount of knowledge which would translate to the idea that Luke would generally learn faster then a younger student (even a young Anakin Skywalker).

As a third reason we can look at how learning curves in general aren't necessarely equal amongst different student, e.g. student A may have a lineair learning curve while student B could have an exponential one thus while student A would be better in the beginning of his career, student B could eventually surpass later on. And when we actually take a look at Luke's ability to learn by the time of RotJ we see how he's for example employing form V by just fighting an opponent who utilises this fighting technique, it becomes evidently clear that Luke's ability to learn may well be surpassing Anakin's.

NOTE: While someone's ability to learn is connected to his/her connection to the Force, which Anakin probably surpasses Luke in, it's certainly the only factor which would decides the knowledge someone can gather.

As last there is an quote from in the Legends novel New Jedi Order: Vector Prime where Jacen Solo and Luke Skywalker are talking about which option is best, learning in group or having only one master guide you through your training. Jacen believes that while he grew powerful under the study at the academy he could've been much more poweful if he had been studying one-on-one with Yoda and describes this as a pivotal reason in Luke's Jedi career. Add to this that Anakin Skywalker and Ahsoka started fighting in The Clone Wars shortly after becoming a Jedi Knight or Padawan thus limiting their time of actively seeking out Jedi knowledge.

As a conclusion there are several reasons Luke's Jedi training while shorter could be considered as containing an equal amount of knowledge (since he became a Jedi either way you put it), from having a better teacher and having a greater learning ability to getting the more favorable way of teaching and transition of knowledge, all these point towards Luke.

So what do you guys think of this.

MythLord
The difference between then and than... It's important!

DarthDuelist9
Originally posted by MythLord
The difference between then and than... It's important!

Yeah, should have re-read it.

Darth Thor
Well even with his training complete, that would at most put him on par with TCW Movie Anakin (whose training was also complete, but he likely had th higher Force potential).

So he still shouldn't be a match for Vader in an all out.

DarthDuelist9
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well even with his training complete, that would at most put him on par with TCW Movie Anakin (whose training was also complete, but he likely had th higher Force potential).

So he still shouldn't be a match for Vader in an all out.

Not necessarely, Luke's training was obviously different from Anakin's (more knowledgeable master, different form of training method,...) while he was also older than Anakin was at that point while at the same time early TCW Anakin was still very much rivaling Dooku.

MythLord
Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
early TCW Anakin was still very much rivaling Dooku.

No.

Zenwolf
Well if taking into account Legends, Luke also self trained and explored prior to his training with Yoda also. Eh he's also doing that too in Canon, but Legends is more explored.

DarthDuelist9
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Well if taking into account Legends, Luke also self trained and explored prior to his training with Yoda also. Eh he's also doing that too in Canon, but Legends is more explored.

Indeed, IIRC he was using experimenting with the Force in Heir of the Jedi.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Not necessarely, Luke's training was obviously different from Anakin's (more knowledgeable master, different form of training method,...) while he was also older than Anakin was at that point while at the same time early TCW Anakin was still very much rivaling Dooku.



Luke basically did a crash course in Jedi training. Still he had just completed his training by ROTJ. So not sure why or how he should be ahead of TCW Movie Anakin.

TCW movie Anakin was challenging Dooku, and rivalling him in Sabers, but he still wasn't his equal in an all out. And let's not forget Vader > Dooku.

DarthDuelist9
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Luke basically did a crash course in Jedi training. Still he had just completed his training by ROTJ. So not sure why or how he should be ahead of TCW Movie Anakin.

TCW movie Anakin was challenging Dooku, and rivalling him in Sabers, but he still wasn't his equal in an all out. And let's not forget Vader > Dooku.

Sure but Luke still had the necessary knowledge to be a complete Jedi like Anakin, that's mainly what I was aiming at.

SunRazer
Originally posted by Darth Thor
TCW movie Anakin was challenging Dooku, and rivalling him in Sabers, but he still wasn't his equal in an all out. And let's not forget Vader > Dooku.

I can't remember how the novel depicts it right now, but the TCW junior novel depicts Dooku being the clear superior. His initial attack drive Anakin back, and when Anakin retaliates, Dooku just knocks his blade back. At the end, Dooku doesn't even Push him, he just takes out the holoprojector mid-duel. Likewise, Anakin never knocks him down, he just knocks the holoprojector out of Dooku's hand and runs, which Dooku allows.

The film does make Anakin and Dooku look kind of even, yeah.

Emperordmb
Honestly though, Anakin always performs better against Dooku than he logically should. In no other fight in TCW does he perform as a near Dooku level combatant.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Honestly though, Anakin always performs better against Dooku than he logically should. In no other fight in TCW does he perform as a near Dooku level combatant.



Or perhaps he under performs against other opponents. His Jedi morals usually hold him back. But against the guy who chopped his arm off, that all goes out of the window.

NewGuy01
He's learned a lot in some areas, but other areas were abandoned entirely.

DarthDuelist9
Originally posted by NewGuy01
He's learned a lot in some areas, but other areas were abandoned entirely.

Which areas are you thinking about?

relentless1
He almost beats Dooku on Naboo in TCW so I dunno what you're on about. The guy is consistently getting better against Dooku each time they fight.

relentless1
As for Luke, the only reason he was able to compete on any level with Vader was because he is Vaders son, Darth Vader was conflicted as **** when he fought him. Put ROTJ Luyke against any of the PT era Jedi he gets creamed

Darth Thor
Originally posted by relentless1
As for Luke, the only reason he was able to compete on any level with Vader was because he is Vaders son, Darth Vader was conflicted as **** when he fought him. Put ROTJ Luyke against any of the PT era Jedi he gets creamed



You don't think his training was complete?

relentless1
like you said, he got a crash course in Jedi training, he completed that; even though Yoda contradicts himself between the two films; in ESB he says Luke is in danger because he hasnt completed his training and then all of a sudden boom his training is complete all of a sudden in ROTJ? It doesnt jive and even if it did that small amount of exposure can't equate to a lifetime of training that a real Jedi would have had.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by relentless1
even though Yoda contradicts himself between the two films; in ESB he says Luke is in danger because he hasnt completed his training and then all of a sudden boom his training is complete all of a sudden in ROTJ?



Yeah as a kid I was under the impression Luke had been consistently visiting and training with Yoda between ESB and ROTJ, which is why Yoda says that to him. It was only after reading the Shadows of the Empire comic book that I was like, "wait, in ROTJ that was the first time he'd seen Yoda since ESB?"

Either way though it's clear Luke had grown stronger since ESB. Maybe in the new canon we'll eventually learn he had a holocron or something to help him train.


Originally posted by relentless1
It doesnt jive and even if it did that small amount of exposure can't equate to a lifetime of training that a real Jedi would have had.


Well in terms of time, Anakin had trained for 10 years from TPM to AOTC/TCW Movie. Whereas Luke had been training for 4 years between ANH and ROTJ. So just under half the time. Maybe Luke's just a faster learner than Anakin? Plus like DD9 says maybe starting his training as an adult shortened the time?

But that's why I keep saying TCW Movie Anakin level is the best Luke could possibly be. Given ROTS Anakin had completed his training a few years earlier and had advanced much further since. In fact there's almost as much time between AOTC and ROTS as there is between ANH and ROTJ.

UCanShootMyNova
Luke taught himself with Obi Wan's journals in Shadows of the empire which is why Yoda said his training was complete.

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