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Miyagi from The Next Karate Kid

VS

Chen Zhen from The legend of The Fist

Rules: Pure H2H.

The fight takes place inside of a roman colosseum.

Who wins and why?

Chen Zhen should like just...f*cking destroy him. He's legit superhuman and has plenty of feats to send Miyagi flying. Also he's way faster than him.

Originally posted by KingD19
Chen Zhen should like just...f*cking destroy him. He's legit superhuman and has plenty of feats to send Miyagi flying. Also he's way faster than him.
Agreed with you. If DexxPlanet and h1a8 continues being butthurt saying that miyagi cacthed arrows, broke large log or saying another dumb shit. Next time I would put Miyagi against Dragon Wong, Yulaw or even against the beast from Kung Fu Hustle.

Originally posted by Solid47
Agreed with you. If DexxPlanet and h1a8 continues being butthurt saying that miyagi cacthed arrows, broke large log or saying another dumb shit. Next time I would put Miyagi against Dragon Wong, Yulaw or even against the beast from Kung Fu Hustle.

Wouldn't do any good. They probably believe Miyagi could kick the crap out of even Vegito.

SMFH. The only way Mr Miyagi wins is if Chen Zhen laughs so hard he bursts a blood vessel.

Miyagi wins for the same reason he beats Ip Man.
Miyagi has superhuman speed and perceptions.
Miyagi will not attack first. He will counter, instantly, Chen's attack and put him down in a few blows.

Originally posted by h1a8
Miyagi wins for the same reason he beats Ip Man.
Miyagi has superhuman speed and perceptions.
Miyagi will not attack first. He will counter, instantly, Chen's attack and put him down in a few blows.

Miyagi loses for the same reason he gets his butt instantly kicked by Ip Man.
Miyagi has extremely slow speed and reactions compared to any version of Ip Man and Chen Zhen.
Miyagi will not attack first. He will try to counter and have his head kicked in, his ribs broken and and all his internal organs smashed in a few blows.

Okay seriously. If you say Miyagi wins, you're either Quan levels of biased, or a troll.

Miyagi caught an arrow as part of a demonstration?

OFUCv9h5K4g
Chen Zhen dodged minigun fire and took out an entire squadron by himself with only knives and himself. Also notice the several feats showcasing superhuman strength/speed/agility, etc...


S9oZAIklsW8
This is most of his fights. Plenty of feats that again put him several orders of magnitude against Miyagi.

Miyagi gets waxed.

Originally posted by h1a8
Miyagi wins for the same reason he beats Ip Man.
Miyagi has superhuman speed and perceptions.
Miyagi will not attack first. He will counter, instantly, Chen's attack and put him down in a few blows.


I challenge you to a comparison of fighting feats, loser gets temp banned for 3 months, do you accept?

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Miyagi loses for the same reason he gets his butt instantly kicked by Ip Man.
Miyagi has extremely slow speed and reactions compared to any version of Ip Man and Chen Zhen.
Miyagi will not attack first. He will try to counter and have his head kicked in, his ribs broken and and all his internal organs smashed in a few blows.

Actually Miyagi has faster hand speed and reactions than any one of these characters. He casually caught an arrow. He broke the top portions off 4 beer bottles without knocking the bottles over. That takes speed of sound type speed.

You are merely looking at acting speed and not functional speed. Catching an arrow is far faster than any feat made by either character. So is that beer bottle feat.

Lastly, you missed the part where I said Miyagi can counter instantly (simultaneously) as he blocks or parries.

Originally posted by KingD19
Okay seriously. If you say Miyagi wins, you're either Quan levels of biased, or a troll.

Miyagi caught an arrow as part of a demonstration?

OFUCv9h5K4g
Chen Zhen dodged minigun fire and took out an entire squadron by himself with only knives and himself. Also notice the several feats showcasing superhuman strength/speed/agility, etc...


S9oZAIklsW8
This is most of his fights. Plenty of feats that again put him several orders of magnitude against Miyagi.

Miyagi gets waxed.

Subjective arguments you are using. It looks cool so Chen beats Miyagi. Garbage logic.

Chen was aim dodging the bullets.
Miyagi caught a phucking arrow with casual ease. To assume he's not fast enough to parry Chen's attacks is trolling.

Miyagi hand speed and perceptions dwarf Chen's. Miyagi counters instantly after he dodges or parries. Miyagi doesn't attack first. The latter will give him a definitive advantage.

Do you accept my challenge?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Do you accept my challenge?

His logic is perfect, Silent. If he doesn't accept, he can't lose.

Originally posted by KingD19
His logic is perfect, Silent. If he doesn't accept, he can't lose.

Yeah, plus it's hard to lose an argument when you just make up feats for your contestants, like the fact that Miyagi has a hand speed of over 100 mph - yet he couldn't even catch a fly after years of trying and Daniel did it within a few days of training!

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Yeah, plus it's hard to lose an argument when you just make up feats for your contestants, like the fact that Miyagi has a hand speed of over 100 mph - yet he couldn't even catch a fly after years of trying and Daniel did it within a few days of training!

Actually it's simple physics. And try above 200mph since you want to be critical of my nice 100mph. I'm going with MORE than 200mph. Try me!

Originally posted by h1a8
Actually it's simple physics. And try above 200mph since you want to be critical of my nice 100mph. I'm going with MORE than 200mph. Try me!

No thanks. Clearly, you're not a physics major - in fact, based on your reasoning I doubt you're old enough to drive or stay home alone without a babysitter. What you're selling smells like the stuff that comes from the back end of a cow and flies live on - not that you or Miyagi would ever know anything about flies, since he's too slow to catch one!

lol people on kmc are dumb. chen zhen isnt even olympic level. miyagi casually catched a arrows flying at mach 10 shoot from point blank and has casually broke a massive log. miyagi knocks his skull off with a karate chop

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Yeah, plus it's hard to lose an argument when you just make up feats for your contestants, like the fact that Miyagi has a hand speed of over 100 mph - yet he couldn't even catch a fly after years of trying and Daniel did it within a few days of training!

because hes more skilled than chen zhen moron

Originally posted by Dexx-Planet86
lol people on kmc are dumb. chen zhen isnt even olympic level. miyagi casually catched a arrows flying at mach 10 shoot from point blank and has casually broke a massive log. miyagi knocks his skull off with a karate chop

because hes more skilled than chen zhen moron

Mach 10

How many times did you fail high school physics?

A fly's speed is less than 1 mile per hour - yet Miyagi can't even catch one after years of trying! He's a failure, a slow, painfully slow failure who can't even catch a fly.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Mach 10

How many times did you fail high school physics?

A fly's speed is less than 1 mile per hour - yet Miyagi can't even catch one after years of trying! He's a failure, a slow, painfully slow failure who can't even catch a fly.

His Mach 10 number basically means that he thinks Miyagi could catch a railgun shell.

Originally posted by h1a8
Actually it's simple physics. And try above 200mph since you want to be critical of my nice 100mph. I'm going with MORE than 200mph. Try me!


I challenge you to a comparison of fighting feats, loser gets banned for 3 months.

Do you accept?

Originally posted by h1a8
Miyagi wins for the same reason he beats Ip Man.
Miyagi has superhuman speed and perceptions.
Miyagi will not attack first. He will counter, instantly, Chen's attack and put him down in a few blows. This is all the proof needed of a troll response.

Chen Zhen the same character played by Bruce Lee. He has shown legitimate superhuman speed and strength. In both portrayals by Donnie and Bruce.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
His Mach 10 number basically means that he thinks Miyagi could catch a railgun shell.
Well he said that Daniel and Miyagi can stomp Master Chief. So no i'm not surprised.

Originally posted by Kotor3
This is all the proof needed of a troll response.

Chen Zhen the same character played by Bruce Lee. He has shown legitimate superhuman speed and strength. In both portrayals by Donnie and Bruce.

Donnie Yen is the version specified in this thread.

too much miyagi wank lol

Originally posted by Drsoe08
too much miyagi wank lol

Not really. Miyagi wins mainly because he DOESN'T ATTACK FIRST.
Chen will attack first and be met with a counter attack. Very simple.

Originally posted by h1a8
Not really. Miyagi wins mainly because he DOESN'T ATTACK FIRST.
Chen will attack first and be met with a counter attack. Very simple.

LOL!!!!!!!

So 1 he can counter attack a strike with the force Chen Zhen can deliver?

And 2 Chen's gonna stand there on the chance he does counter and just...not counter again? He's shit tons faster than Miyagi and if you say he isn't, you're just blatantly lying.

h1 likely believes that Miyagi could easily counter Quicksilver and Metro-man.

Originally posted by Silent Master
h1 likely believes that Miyagi could easily counter Quicksilver and Metro-man.

Well, according to him Miyagi has a hand speed of more than 200 mph.

Originally posted by KingD19
So 1 he can counter attack a strike with the force Chen Zhen can deliver?

And 2 Chen's gonna stand there on the chance he does counter and just...not counter again? He's shit tons faster than Miyagi and if you say he isn't, you're just blatantly lying.

Finally, someone for the first time to address my argument. Everyone else has trolled by ignoring my argument.

I don't quite understand your first sentence. Are you asking can Miyagi deliver a counter attack at the force equal to what Chen can attack with? Or are you asking if Miyagi can parry a Chen level attack?

If the former, then
Yes he can counter attack Chen. But the force Miyagi uses would be sufficient in hurting Chen.


If the latter then it only takes a small fraction of the force to parry an attack. Miyagi has the reflexes and hand speed to parry any attack made by Chen and almost simultaneously counter. Remember Miyagi is also very skilled at Aikido. This allows Miyagi to use Chen's momentum against himself.

It doesn't have to be at a particular force. Just enough to hurt Chen.

Being faster in attacking is irrelevant here. All that matters is does one have the speed to defend and counter. Miyagi has the ability to counter simultaneously as he parries. Once Chen throws an attack he is open to being attacked.

Miyagi has casually caught an arrow (speed and reflexes) and has shown tremendous hand speed (breaking bottles and a tree). So Chen is not tremendously faster (if any).

So I guess people don't believe that

1. Miyagi has the reflexes and speed to parry Chen's first attack.

Or

2. Miyagi doesn't have the speed to counter AFTER he parried the attack.

Which one?

Originally posted by h1a8
So I guess people don't believe that

1. Miyagi has the reflexes and speed to parry Chen's first attack.

Or

2. Miyagi doesn't have the speed to counter AFTER he parried the attack.

Which one?

How about you show us an example of Miyagi countering someone of Chen's skill and/or speed.

Or blocking or catching or redirecting and attack that has sent larger younger men than him flying.

Originally posted by h1a8
Miyagi wins for the same reason he beats Ip Man.
Miyagi has superhuman speed and perceptions.
Miyagi will not attack first. He will counter, instantly, Chen's attack and put him down in a few blows.


provide some evidence please

Originally posted by Dexx-Planet86
lol people on kmc are dumb. chen zhen isnt even olympic level. miyagi casually catched a arrows flying at mach 10 shoot from point blank and has casually broke a massive log. miyagi knocks his skull off with a karate chop



because hes more skilled than chen zhen moron


any evidence to back up your claim that miyagi caught an arrow travelling at mach 10 speed? lol

Looks like another thread where h1 ran away, rather than provide proof.

Originally posted by Drsoe08
provide some evidence please

Miyagi has shown reaction speed to things that moved far faster than Chen. Miyagi has shown hand speed above human level. Miyagi has shown superhuman strength as well.

Here are some of his feats.

1. He casually caught an arrow. This requires superhuman speed and reactions. Note: He did it casually. That means he can achieve a greater feat with more effort.

2. He broke several beer bottles with little to no liquid in them. This takes crazy hand speed.

3. Miyagi broke a tree in half with one chop.

4. Miyagi threw a man over 10 feet through the air through a swinging door.

5. Miyagi CASUALLY dodge a flurry of fast attacks by a karate master.

Originally posted by KingD19
Or blocking or catching or redirecting and attack that has sent larger younger men than him flying.

Miyagi has shown superhuman strength. He tossed a man 10 feet through the air and through a swing door. He chopped a tree in half. He broke bottles with no little to no liquid in them.

It takes almost a tiny fraction of the force of an attack to parry it.
For example, if a punch is 2000psi then it would take the same force to parry if the punch was 100psi. Why? Because parrying is done almost 90% from the direction of the attack. There will be no counter force. The force that's needed is the force to push a dead human's arm out of the way.

Also Miyagi is very adept at Aikido jujitsu techniques. He can use Chen's momentum against himself. A punch is instantly turned into a throw without using any counter forces to the punch (just adding to the punch and applying some misdirection).



Originally posted by Silent Master
How about you show us an example of Miyagi countering someone of Chen's skill and/or speed.

It takes very little to no skill to parry an attack. Great skill isn't a requirement. Speed and reflexes is though.

It takes only a fraction of the speed of an attacker to parry their attacks. Miyagi moved his hands at superhuman speeds multiple times. He also has reacted to speeds far faster than Chen. So he easily has the speed and skill to parry Chen.

Instead of just repeating your opinion, how about showing us an example of Miyagi countering someone of Chen's skill and/or speed?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Instead of just repeating your opinion, how about showing us an example of Miyagi countering someone of Chen's skill and/or speed?

If someone is shown to do greater things, then it's in their capability to do lesser things.

That's like asking for an example of Superman lifting a horse (to prove he can) when he was shown to lift greater things. And then calling the claim that he can lift a horse AN OPINION. This is trolling.

I already proven That Miyagi has the capability of parrying a Chen attack by providing feats that are greater.

By all means, If you have examples of Miyagi countering people that are above Chen's skill and/or speed, feel free to post those.

Originally posted by Silent Master
By all means, If you have examples of Miyagi countering people that are above Chen's skill and/or speed, feel free to post those.

Again, I provided PROOF of Miyagi reacting and moving to things far faster than Chen. Thus he can react and move to a Chen attack. Great skill isn't needed for parrying. Miyagi has easily shown the skill to parry and block and dodge. The Speed and reactions are what's needed (I've proven he has them through feats).

Originally posted by h1a8
Again, I provided PROOF of Miyagi reacting and moving to things far faster than Chen. Thus he can reacted and move to a Chen attack. Great skill isn't needed for parrying. Miyagi has easily shown the skill to parry and block and dodge. The Speed and reactions are what's needed (I've proven he has them through feats).

When did you provide proof of Miyagi countering someone of Chen's skill and/or speed?

Originally posted by Silent Master
When did you provide proof of Miyagi countering someone of Chen's skill and/or speed?

I argued level of skill of the attacker is irrelevant. So stop bringing that up. A dodge is simply to move out the way. A parry is simply to push the attack from the side.

You keep saying someone. Objects count too. If it proves reaction speeds and hand speed then it translates.


The problem with you is that will always troll. You don't say stuff like "but that doesn't translate to people". But rather you would post the same stuff over and over again. I'm trying to figure out why haven't you been warned yet or banned. All you do is troll.

If a point is flawed them simply state why. Don't ignore the point like it was never made and use trolling language over and over again.

Originally posted by h1a8
I argued level of skill of the attacker is irrelevant. So stop bringing that up. A dodge is simply to move out the way. A parry is simply to push the attack from the side.

You keep saying someone. Objects count too. If it proves reaction speeds and hand speed then it translates.


The problem with you is that will always troll. You don't say stuff like "but that doesn't translate to people". But rather you would post the same stuff over and over again. I'm trying to figure out why haven't you been warned yet or banned. All you do is troll.

If a point is flawed them simply state why. Don't ignore the point like it was never made and use trolling language over and over again.

You thinking something isn't proof, now how about actually providing proof instead of just finding new ways to state your opinion.

Reported for trolling.
Either address and rebut my points or ignore me.

Originally posted by h1a8
Reported for trolling.
Either address and rebut my points or ignore me.

Disagreeing with you isn't trolling. you have posted zero evidence to back up your claim.

BTW, People have already told you why the arrow catch isn't usable for combat speed.

Originally posted by h1a8
Actually Miyagi has faster hand speed and reactions than any one of these characters. He casually caught an arrow. He broke the top portions off 4 beer bottles without knocking the bottles over. That takes speed of sound type speed.

You are merely looking at acting speed and not functional speed. Catching an arrow is far faster than any feat made by either character. So is that beer bottle feat.

Lastly, you missed the part where I said Miyagi can counter instantly (simultaneously) as he blocks or parries. It doesn't though.

BULLETS are speed of sound type speed.

Comparing arrows to bullets in terms of speed, at all, is idiotic.

Even our earliest guns and firearms (barring cannons) are faster then arrows.

However, catching an arrow is relative to combat speed. It means he's incredibly fast, not that hard to understand.

The problem with that is, we don't know if Chen Zen is capable of doing something similar.

He does seem much faster then Miyagi, but Zen also has comparable technique.

Gonna give it to Chen Zen.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
However, catching an arrow is relative to combat speed. It means he's incredibly fast, not that hard to understand.

The problem with that is, we don't know if Chen Zen is capable of doing something similar.

He does seem much faster then Miyagi, but Zen also has comparable technique.

Gonna give it to Chen Zen.

Only it's not relevant to combat speed because 1) he didn't do it in combat 2) he had plenty of time to prepare for the catch an 3) he only did it once, there is no evidence he could consistently move at that speed.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Only it's not relevant to combat speed because 1) he didn't do it in combat 2) he had plenty of time to prepare for the catch an 3) he only did it once, there is no evidence he could consistently move at that speed.

1. He doesn't have to. Showing reaction and hand speed outside combat translates to having reactions and hand speed in combat.

2. Prepare how? He just stood there and waited. He was not shown to practice this.

3. He did it casually. That means it was easy. That means he can do lesser things CONSISTENTLY.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
It doesn't though.

BULLETS are speed of sound type speed.

Comparing arrows to bullets in terms of speed, at all, is idiotic.

Even our earliest guns and firearms (barring cannons) are faster then arrows.

I didn't compare arrows to bullets. I compared breaking the bottles with the speed of sound.

The arrow feat was a reaction feat and a lesser movement speed feat. The bottle feat was not a reaction feat but a speed feat.

Stop giving your opinion and actually provide proof.

Originally posted by h1a8
I didn't compare arrows to bullets. I compared breaking the bottles with the speed of sound.

The arrow feat was a reaction feat and a lesser movement speed feat. The bottle feat was not a reaction feat but a speed feat.

so your arguing that miyagi's strikes travels at speed of sound? lol

I wonder if h1 is aware of just how fast the speed of sound is?

Originally posted by 950Killer
so your arguing that miyagi's strikes travels at speed of sound? lol No, I'm arguing that it takes bullet type speed to do the feat. Also, not all bullets travel equal or faster than sound. I mistyped. I meant comparing bottle breaking to low end bullet speeds (not speed of sound).

Many bullets travel actually slower.

Originally posted by h1a8
1. He doesn't have to. Showing reaction and hand speed outside combat translates to having reactions and hand speed in combat.

2. Prepare how? He just stood there and waited. He was not shown to practice this.

3. He did it casually. That means it was easy. That means he can do lesser things CONSISTENTLY.

1. Wrong. Very wrong.

2. He still had time to gather himself, it doesn't mean he can do it on the fly.

3. Too many variables go into what that "lesser thing" would be.

Comparing the breaking of those bottles to the speed of sound makes it sound like you don't know how fast the speed of sound actually is.

Originally posted by h1a8
No, I'm arguing that it takes bullet type speed to do the feat. Also, not all bullets travel equal or faster than sound. I mistyped. I meant comparing bottle breaking to low end bullet speeds (not speed of sound).

Many bullets travel actually slower.

Be specific, exactly how fast are you claiming his hand speed is?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Be specific, exactly how fast are you claiming his hand speed is? At best, Low end bullet speed.

Originally posted by h1a8
At best, Low end bullet speed. You're ****ing crazy dude.

You're out of your ****ing mind.

No standard arrow, especially one fired from a low draw Yomi Bow is anywhere near even the slowest musket ball.

Originally posted by h1a8
At best, Low end bullet speed.


wtf does "low end bullet speed" even mean.

Originally posted by h1a8
At best, Low end bullet speed.

That isn't being specific, give an actual number.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
You're ****ing crazy dude.

You're out of your ****ing mind.

That's the speed it takes to do the feat.
Now we can argue that the feat was PIS since it's beyond human ability. But if we take the feat seriously then it takes low end bullet speed (somewhere over 200mph).

Originally posted by h1a8
That's the speed it takes to do the feat.
Now we can argue that the feat was PIS since it's beyond human ability. But if we take the feat seriously then it takes low end bullet speed (somewhere over 200mph).

Prove that Miyagi's hand was moving somewhere over 200 mph in that scene.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Prove that Miyagi's hand was moving somewhere over 200 mph in that scene. It has to move at least that speed to break tops off bottles without knocking the bottles over.

Originally posted by h1a8
It has to move at least that speed to break tops off bottles without knocking the bottles over.

Then you'll have no problem taking my bet, that we have the scene judged by a unbiased 3rd party and if they agree with you that the clip shows him moving at over 200 mph, I get temp banned for 3 months. otherwise you get banned for 3 months.

Do you accept?

A human hand moving at 200 mph would be invisible to the naked eye. Daniel stood there and watched him do it so now, its not that fast.

Accept Silent's challenge. Should be easy seeing as how confident you are about your numbers.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Then you'll have no problem taking my bet, that we have the scene judged by a unbiased 3rd party and if they agree with you that the clip shows him moving at over 200 mph, I get temp banned for 3 months. otherwise you get banned for 3 months.

Do you accept?

What? You going by visual speed I see. In that case, the actor's hand moved under 40mph. Same as Cap moving slower than actual professional fighters. He couldn't perform those jumps without wires because his actor's legs can't generate the necessary speed to leap.
WS couldn't have possibly kick someone over 10 feet away with the slow speed of his leg.

So we either ignore visual speed and assume speed necessary to achieve the feat in question (makes a lot of sense)
Or
We use visual speed only. That means certain feats are invalid and regular people are faster than Cap.

Originally posted by KingD19
A human hand moving at 200 mph would be invisible to the naked eye. Daniel stood there and watched him do it so now, its not that fast.

Accept Silent's challenge. Should be easy seeing as how confident you are about your numbers.

Visual acting speed =/= actual character story speed. Otherwise Cap would be slower than all professional fighters. And his most of his striking feats would be invalid as they required more speed than what Cap shown.

Do you accept the challenge?

Accept SM's challenge h1. Why are you always so afraid of having to have to prove your assertions?

Originally posted by h1a8
That's the speed it takes to do the feat.
Now we can argue that the feat was PIS since it's beyond human ability. But if we take the feat seriously then it takes low end bullet speed (somewhere over 200mph).

Prove that you need 200mph hand speed to break bottles.

Just prove it guy. We'll all be quiet if you can back up your math and your claims. And since Daniel and all the mucks watched Miyagi break the bottle, that means all of them can see and react to speeds of 200mph+.

Originally posted by h1a8
That's the speed it takes to do the feat.
Now we can argue that the feat was PIS since it's beyond human ability. But if we take the feat seriously then it takes low end bullet speed (somewhere over 200mph).

define what is "low end bullet speed".

Originally posted by 950Killer
define what is "low end bullet speed".

Around 500mph.

I meant low end air gun pellet speed. So around 200mph.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Accept SM's challenge h1. Why are you always so afraid of having to have to prove your assertions? He's judging by the acting visual speed (which is less than 40mph).

I disagree with that. Otherwise, every real professional MMA fighter will be a lot faster than Cap. And there is no way Cap could perform the feats he did with his movement speed.

Muskets on the slowest end were about 268mph. Bullets at the slowest are like, 500mph.

If Miyagi is moving at 200mph, that means Daniel and those mooks were all able to see and react to him moving at that speed right?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Prove that you need 200mph hand speed to break bottles. I'm judging by pellet speed. Pellets from air gun can do it to a lesser degree. The hand is more massive but softer (they should cancel out somewhat).

Now the 200mph isn't exact but an estimation.

Originally posted by h1a8
He's judging by the acting visual speed (which is less than 40mph).

I disagree with that. Otherwise, every real professional MMA fighter will be a lot faster than Cap. And there is no way Cap could perform the feats he did with his movement speed.

No. He is asking you to prove your 200mph assertion to a panel of unbiased judges. With the way you keep insisting on your opinion, it should be easy.

Right now, you're just trying to weasel out of having to back up what you infer, as always.

It's not hard, H1. If you want to prove something to us so vehemently, then do a challenge. It's evidence vs evidence.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
No. He is asking you to prove your 200mph assertion to a panel of unbiased judges. With the way you keep insisting on your opinion, it should be easy.

Right now, you're just trying to weasel out of having to back up what you infer, as always. He's asking me to prove it by using visual speed. It's impossible because the actor moved slower than that.

Now proving the speed it TAKES to break the tops off empty bottles is another story. But what good is that when it's going to shot down by another argument.


So I'll change my argument to
Miyagi moved his hand with superhuman speeds (speed faster than Chen or Ip man). No numbers to prove.

Originally posted by h1a8
He's asking me to prove it by using visual speed. It's impossible because the actor moved slower than that.

Now proving the speed it TAKES to break the tops off empty bottles is another story. But what good is that when it's going to shot down by another argument.


So I'll change my argument to
Miyagi moved his hand with superhuman speeds (speed faster than Chen or Ip man). No numbers to prove.

So Daniel and the bozos all have superhuman reaction speed and eyesight as they all watched Miyagi chop the bottles. Daniel asked him right after how he did it.

How fast is Chen Zhen moving when he hits someone and they go flying? Or to dodge bullets and run practically horizontally to the ground?

Originally posted by h1a8
He's asking me to prove it by using visual speed. It's impossible because the actor moved slower than that.

Now proving the speed it TAKES to break the tops off empty bottles is another story. But what good is that when it's going to shot down by another argument.

So I'll change my argument to
Miyagi moved his hand with superhuman speeds (speed faster than Chen or Ip man). No numbers to prove.

Pls quote where he said that you could only prove it via visual speed.

Otherwise, either take his challenge or concede.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Pls quote where he said that you could only prove it via visual speed.

Otherwise, either take his challenge or concede.

Funny thing is he constantly tries to apply the visual speed thing to Cap. The Cap vs Angel Dust thread being just the latest example.

Miyagi is apparently superfast, even though he looks slow as shit, because he broke bottles and caught an arrow, but Cap is slow because H1 thinks he looks slow, despite the fact that he has multiple showings in the films that would require enhanced speed to achieve.

Edit: By the same standards he is trying to apply here, Cap's combat speed is actually very fast, considering he has landed hits on characters like Black Panther, who has actually dodged and caught multiple arrows from Hawkeye, in the middle of combat. Or tagged Iron Man, who dodged a tank shell in IM1.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Pls quote where he said that you could only prove it via visual speed.

Otherwise, either take his challenge or concede.

It's an inside thing between us that has been going on for a while.
He's a firm proponent of visual speed is true speed.

Originally posted by h1a8
That's the speed it takes to do the feat.
Now we can argue that the feat was PIS since it's beyond human ability. But if we take the feat seriously then it takes low end bullet speed (somewhere over 200mph). You didn't graduate from elementary school, did you?

Sorry, but ****ing comic book Batman can't fight at 200mph.

No human, even humans with superhuman speed, can fight at 200mph.

Can you post what feat you're talking about?

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Funny thing is he constantly tries to apply the visual speed thing to Cap. The Cap vs Angel Dust thread being just the latest example.

Miyagi is apparently superfast, even though he looks slow as shit, because he broke bottles and caught an arrow, but Cap is slow because H1 thinks he looks slow, despite the fact that he has multiple showings in the films that would require enhanced speed to achieve.

Edit: By the same standards he is trying to apply here, Cap's combat speed is actually very fast, considering he has landed hits on characters like Black Panther, who has actually dodged and caught multiple arrows from Hawkeye, in the middle of combat. Or tagged Iron Man, who dodged a tank shell in IM1.

To punch Colossus 50feet away or more required superspeed.
So Angel Dust is pretty fast. Plus she easily caught Colossus punch.

Anyway, yes I used a double standard. When arguing Cap I refered to visual speed by habit due to Silent Master being the proponent of that argument. I started arguing visual speed as a joke in order to make Silent's argument backfire. It did. But the joke became a habit that I actually used it seriously against Rage. This was a mistake.
Visual speed is irrelevant if the feat requires significantly greater speed.

So I will not joke anymore. My take is speed required to do a feat is true speed.

Finally, speed can not be judged on the ability to tag someone. This is because there exists counterevidence to contradict it.
For example, Spidey, Superman, etc being tagged by slower than bullet speeds.

And ABC logic does not work when characters are known to operate at different levels at different times (even in real life). A character dodging a bullet only to get hit by another character doesn't mean that character is faster than a bullet. You can't equate a character's highest showings with other showings.

Originally posted by h1a8
It's an inside thing between us that has been going on for a while.
He's a firm proponent of visual speed is true speed.

Stope weaseling.

Accept it or concede.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
You didn't graduate from elementary school, did you?

Sorry, but ****ing comic book Batman can't fight at 200mph.

No human, even humans with superhuman speed, can fight at 200mph.

Can you post what feat you're talking about?

The feat could be PIS. We can argue that. But to break the tops of empty bottles without knocking them over requires superhuman speed. I dismissed my 200mph argument as just a superhuman speed argument.

Originally posted by h1a8
To punch Colossus 50feet away or more required superspeed.
So Angel Dust is pretty fast. Plus she easily caught Colossus punch.

Anyway, yes I used a double standard. When arguing Cap I refered to visual speed by habit due to Silent Master being the proponent of that argument. I started arguing visual speed as a joke in order to make Silent's argument backfire. It did. But the joke became a habit that I actually used it seriously against Rage. This was a mistake.
Visual speed is irrelevant if the feat requires significantly greater speed.

So I will not joke anymore. My take is speed required to do a feat is true speed.

Finally, speed can not be judged on the ability to tag someone. This is because there exists counterevidence to contradict it.
For example, Spidey, Superman, etc being tagged by slower than bullet speeds.

And ABC logic does not work when characters are known to operate at different levels at different times (even in real life). A character dodging a bullet only to get hit by another character doesn't mean that character is faster than a bullet. You can't equate a character's highest showings with other showings.

Well, whatever angle you use to argue, just try to be consistent across threads. Otherwise, it reflects badly on all your arguments, which doesn't help convincing others of your stance.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, whatever angle you use to argue, just try to be consistent across threads. Otherwise, it reflects badly on all your arguments, which doesn't help convincing others of your stance.

H1 decides who he wants to win and then tailors his argument to get the outcome he wants. seriously, just read through several of his threads and you'll notice that his standards for proof vary.

Angel Dust doesn't have super speed. She has super strength. Its a power.

Originally posted by KingD19
Angel Dust doesn't have super speed. She has super strength. Its a power.

Yeah, generating superhuman levels of force can be explained by greater muscle efficiency than a normal human being. A good example is the video where the scientists actually test that freakishly strong guy from Stan Lee's Superhumans. He doesn't physically move any faster than a normal person, but he can activate much more muscle fibers than a regular human can, leading to accelerated bursts of electrical activity in the muscles themselves, but not necessarily acceleration in visible limb speed.

Originally posted by Silent Master
H1 decides who he wants to win and then tailors his argument to get the outcome he wants. seriously, just read through several of his threads and you'll notice that his standards for proof vary.

H1's new mechanism when exposed in his double standards: "I was just joking".

I have a feeling this might be his new M.O. whenever he gets caught in any his logical mishaps.

Let's wait and see.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, whatever angle you use to argue, just try to be consistent across threads. Otherwise, it reflects badly on all your arguments, which doesn't help convincing others of your stance.
Agreed. That's what I said, I will use one angle in my argument. This post has no place other than to get the last word. My post and COMMON SENSE implies that double standards loses credibility. I agreed to not use them.


You should have posted an instead.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
H1's new mechanism when exposed in his double standards: "I was just joking".

I have a feeling this might be his new M.O. whenever he gets caught in any his logical mishaps.

Let's wait and see.

I never said I was joking on the double standard he pointed out (I was serious and wrong). I was joking before that though, pretending so that Silent can see how unsound his angle is. I just got so carried away I started believing in the BS.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Yeah, generating superhuman levels of force can be explained by greater muscle efficiency than a normal human being. A good example is the video where the scientists actually test that freakishly strong guy from Stan Lee's Superhumans. He doesn't physically move any faster than a normal person, but he can activate much more muscle fibers than a regular human can, leading to accelerated bursts of electrical activity in the muscles themselves, but not necessarily acceleration in visible limb speed.

Striking power is a factor of speed and unstoppability.
Unstoppability has the factors of mass and strength.
Speed has the factor of strength.

In other words, under small mass of a fist, great speed is needed for great striking power. Without it then then unstoppability (without great speed) would only push you back and not crush or send something flying away.

Originally posted by KingD19
Angel Dust doesn't have super speed. She has super strength. Its a power. She has phenomenon striking power to send Colossus over 50 feet away. Colossus initial velocity has to be great enough so that he covers the distance before falling. Angel had to produce crazy punching speed to achieve that feat.

No she didn't. Her power is she produces massive amounts of adrenaline on command to give herself strength/durability. That's why Wade stunned her with a headbutt when she was normal.

Just like Colossus is strong/durable because he's solid metal.

Here we have h1 using real world physics when it suits him. Ignoring basic movie/comic/superhero tropes of super strength = punches hard.

Originally posted by h1a8
I never said I was joking on the double standard he pointed out (I was serious and wrong). I was joking before that though, pretending so that Silent can see how unsound his angle is. I just got so carried away I started believing in the BS.

The only BS around here is the crap you type h1. Tho I doubt even you believe in the crap you type since you never seem to accept any challenge to come out and prove your wild theories via a panel of judges.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
The only BS around here is the crap you type h1. Tho I doubt even you believe in the crap you type since you never seem to accept any challenge to come out and prove your wild theories via a panel of judges.

Why accept a challenge you actually agree with? You are making no sense whatsoever. Just trolling now.

I agree that Chen is visually faster. Everyone knows that. So why do a challenge?

Originally posted by KingD19
No she didn't. Her power is she produces massive amounts of adrenaline on command to give herself strength/durability. That's why Wade stunned her with a headbutt when she was normal.

Just like Colossus is strong/durable because he's solid metal. post the clip telling us that's how her powers work?

Also, no projectile can be launched a certain distance in the air unless they had sufficient initial velocity. Projectiles are not self propelling missiles.
To achieve this initial velocity took more velocity from the punch. Remember momentum is always conserved.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Here we have h1 using real world physics when it suits him. Ignoring basic movie/comic/superhero tropes of super strength = punches hard.

Because we are applying this stuff to a forum fight. Everyone here uses real world physics to prove strength, speed, etc. I'm not the only one.
Finally, without using real world physics we can't prove ANYTHING. There can be no debate.

That's her power from the comics. And it's hard to find the exact scene, but Francis explains it a bit different. When he's explaining to Wade how the treatment works, he says "It made Angel inhumanly strong.

Either way, her blows are a direct result of her powers granting her superhuman strength. Speed has nothing to do with it.

Originally posted by KingD19
That's her power from the comics. And it's hard to find the exact scene, but Francis explains it a bit different. When he's explaining to Wade how the treatment works, he says "It made Angel inhumanly strong.

Either way, her blows are a direct result of her powers granting her superhuman strength. Speed has nothing to do with it.

H1 doesn't understand suspension of disbelief as it relates to superpowers, skill or technology.

Originally posted by KingD19
That's her power from the comics. And it's hard to find the exact scene, but Francis explains it a bit different. When he's explaining to Wade how the treatment works, he says "It made Angel inhumanly strong.

Either way, her blows are a direct result of her powers granting her superhuman strength. Speed has nothing to do with it.

In the movies, characters often have different explanation of their powers. That's why I said, post the clip.

Anyway
F=ma
That means the more the force then the more the acceleration.

Also, can you launched something at a certain speed by moving slower than their launch speed? This is stupid.

Colossus flew VERY FAR away. His initial speed was fascinating. Where did that speed come from if she hit him with slower speeds?

Originally posted by Silent Master
H1 doesn't understand suspension of disbelief as it relates to superpowers, skill or technology. Silent doesn't understand that is impossible to launch a more massive object at a certain speed by moving slower. That's against the suspension of disbelief. No rational layman would believe in such nonsense.

I don't....how are you not understanding this? Her literal super power is explained as "inhumanly strong". It does not involve speed. It involves her bones and muscles being enhanced enough to generate superhuman force.

She didn't punch any faster than a normal person would. She just has super strength.

Look at 0:20-0:31
The car is moving slowly yet the head flies out with great speed. Only an idiot wouldn't know that's impossible and stupid as hell

oOUORYAPds0

Originally posted by KingD19
I don't....how are you not understanding this? Her literal super power is explained as "inhumanly strong". It does not involve speed. It involves her bones and muscles being enhanced enough to generate superhuman force.

She didn't punch any faster than a normal person would. She just has super strength. Yet strength generates speed through the equation
F=ma

And yet she can hit more massive things at faster speeds than she can move her arms?

That's like touching, in slow motion, a massive object and sending it away with the speed of a bullet just because you are strong. That's not going to fly with me.

Just look at the video I posted. See how stupid it is?

Originally posted by KingD19
I don't....how are you not understanding this? Her literal super power is explained as "inhumanly strong". It does not involve speed. It involves her bones and muscles being enhanced enough to generate superhuman force.

She didn't punch any faster than a normal person would. She just has super strength.


Like I said, h1 doesn't understand suspension of disbelief.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Like I said, h1 doesn't understand suspension of disbelief.

SMH I know.


H1. Listen. Your opinion doesn't matter vs feats/statement of fact.

You could come up with whatever explanation you want, but the movie says she has super strength. The movie trumps anything you say. Your argument will not ever sway any of us because it is fundamentally wrong in that you put your own opinion above the movie and the directors intentions.

Originally posted by KingD19
SMH I know.


H1. Listen. Your opinion doesn't matter vs feats/statement of fact.

You could come up with whatever explanation you want, but the movie says she has super strength. The movie trumps anything you say. Your argument will not ever sway any of us because it is fundamentally wrong in that you put your own opinion above the movie and the directors intentions.

Superstrength generates speed. There are many examples to support it in media. That's common sense.

It's your choice to believe in stupid shit. I don't care. I'm not going to lose any sleep if you refuse to see common sense. You just become less than a credible debater in my head.

Originally posted by h1a8
I don't understand suspension of disbelief

We know.

Originally posted by h1a8
Why accept a challenge you actually agree with? You are making no sense whatsoever. Just trolling now.

I agree that Chen is visually faster. Everyone knows that. So why do a challenge?

Except that's not what he is challenging you to prove (most recently anyway). Nice weasel attempt tho.

He is challenging you to prove your moromic superspeed Miyagi chop.

Now accept his challenge or concede.

Originally posted by KingD19
SMH I know.

H1. Listen. Your opinion doesn't matter vs feats/statement of fact.

You could come up with whatever explanation you want, but the movie says she has super strength. The movie trumps anything you say. Your argument will not ever sway any of us because it is fundamentally wrong in that you put your own opinion above the movie and the directors intentions.

H1 will say/do anything to have to avoid saying he is wrong. Only when he is caught at a total logical failure will he ever admit anything (and without losing breath, introduce a brand new one). But that is after he has wasted so much of your time having to prove the obvious to someone who has fluctuating logical standards and who also doesn't feel like he has to prove anything he has to say (he will often go the fallacious "common sense" route just to avoid having to prove his outlanding assertions).

When given an ultimatum to prove his wild theories, he will either try to weasel out of it (as above) or ignore the challenge completely and run away (as with Ozy vs Cap).

He is an easy book to read. He is a troll (whose intention is just to waste your time) that tries to be subtle, but really isn't.

Originally posted by h1a8
Striking power is a factor of speed and unstoppability.
Unstoppability has the factors of mass and strength.
Speed has the factor of strength.

In other words, under small mass of a fist, great speed is needed for great striking power. Without it then then unstoppability (without great speed) would only push you back and not crush or send something flying away.

The flaw is you are trying to apply things according to what would be required from real life human biology, in accordance with physical laws, to draw those conclusions, when we are operating in a fictional world where characters exist that don't operate according to those standards, and whose biological structures aren't necessarily in line with those of RL humans. Going by your argument, every single character who can launch a person through the air with a strike now has superhumanly fast striking power as well, regardless of what actual explanation we are provided onscreen.

Let me take an example. Do you think MCU Luke Cage has super speed, in terms of striking? Here is a clip of him sending a guy flying over 20 feet through the air with a one-handed shove, after taking an exploding alien shrapnel bullet to that same shoulder (and another one to the gut). Happens just after 1:10:

jJ1ImHcGhBU

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
The flaw is you are trying to apply things according to what would be required from real life human biology, in accordance with physical laws, to draw those conclusions, when we are operating in a fictional world where characters exist that don't operate according to those standards, and whose biological structures aren't necessarily in line with those of RL humans. Going by your argument, every single character who can launch a person through the air with a strike now has superhumanly fast striking power as well, regardless of what actual explanation we are provided onscreen.

Let me take an example. Do you think MCU Luke Cage has super speed, in terms of striking? Here is a clip of him sending a guy flying over 20 feet through the air with a one-handed shove, after taking an exploding alien shrapnel bullet to that same shoulder (and another one to the gut). Happens just after 1:10:

jJ1ImHcGhBU

It has nothing to do with biology. It's common sense. You can't launch something more massive with more speed than you initiate.
That's like lifting something that weighs more than the force you are lifting with.

Yes all characters with superhuman striking ability can move their hands faster than a human. Cage, and every other character you name. Visual speed isn't actual speed, otherwise Cap is slower than every single professional fighter in the world.

Cage threw him, not hit him.

Originally posted by h1a8
It has nothing to do with biology. It's common sense. You can't launch something more massive with more speed than you initiate.
That's like lifting something that weighs more than the force you are lifting with.

Yes all characters with superhuman striking ability can move their hands faster than a human. Cage, and every other character you name. Visual speed isn't actual speed, otherwise Cap is slower than every single professional fighter in the world.

Cage threw him, not hit him.

It was a shove to the chest, with his arm. And he has a bunch of other feats of sending people flying through the air with hits/kicks, as well.

Common sense... in the real world. But these are characters operating in a comicbook world, where suspension of disbelief is required, otherwise everything would just be a giant pile of nonsense.

One of my favourite examples is from Age of Ultron, at 0:23 odd:

4ngmj5FGcyg

If that had happened in RL, he would have torn her arm clean off. And, if by some miracle that didn't happen, the g-forces on her body would have pulped her insides. So, does that mean that woman has superhuman durability? Or is it simply a case of the writers ignoring RL physics in favour of "rule of cool"?

@h1, do you accept my challenge?

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Except that's not what he is challenging you to prove (most recently anyway). Nice weasel attempt tho.

He is challenging you to prove your moromic superspeed Miyagi chop.

Now accept his challenge or concede.

No he's asking me to prove VISUALLY that Miyagi displayed the speed I claimed through the chop. Visually, Miyagi didn't produce the speed I claimed. So why do a challenge?

Lastly, I already changed my argument to Miyagi had to have superhuman speed (not giving any numbers) to achieve the feat. So anything else is derailing the thread.

Originally posted by h1a8
1) No he's asking me to prove VISUALLY that Miyagi displayed the speed I claimed through the chop. Visually, Miyagi didn't produce the speed I claimed. So why do a challenge?

2) Lastly, I already changed my argument to Miyagi had to have superhuman speed (not giving any numbers) to achieve the feat. So anything else is derailing the thread.

Pls quote where he specified in his challenge that it can only be proven visually.

You claim superhuman but won't give numbers to indicate that it is superhuman. Weasel-y as always.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Pls quote where he specified in his challenge that it can only be proven visually.

You claim superhuman but won't give numbers to indicate that it is superhuman. Weasel-y as always.

I don't have a to because it is an inside conversation between me and him. We been discussing the issue for a long time now. I know his stance on the issue (he argues visual speed). He's been trolling me over and over asking me to prove visual speed. Everything with him is about visual speed. What's your take on the matter?

Yup, numbers aren't needed to know whether something is superhuman or not.

h1 knows he's wrong, that's why he runs from my challenges.

Originally posted by Silent Master
h1 knows he's wrong, that's why he runs from my challenges. Wrong about what, that it takes superhuman speed in real life to break empty bottles at the top?

Accept my challenge.

Originally posted by h1a8
Wrong about what, that it takes superhuman speed in real life to break empty bottles at the top?


what superhuman speed? we already provided a real life comparison to that feat.

Originally posted by 950Killer
what superhuman speed? we already provided a real life comparison to that feat.

Empty bottles?

Originally posted by h1a8
I don't have a to because it is an inside conversation between me and him. We been discussing the issue for a long time now. I know his stance on the issue (he argues visual speed). He's been trolling me over and over asking me to prove visual speed. Everything with him is about visual speed. What's your take on the matter?

Yup, numbers aren't needed to know whether something is superhuman or not.

So quote these "internal conversations". If they exist.

"Superhuman" without quantification is bupkis. It can be 10% faster or 10x faster than RL human speed. Which is just a weasel-y way of escaping having to provide proof as non superhuman movie characters can more or less perform superhuman "feats" relative to their rl counterparts.

Weasel.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
So quote these "internal conversations". If they exist.

"Superhuman" without quantification is bupkis. It can be 10% faster or 10x faster than RL human speed. Which is just a weasel-y way of escaping having to provide proof as non superhuman movie characters can more or less perform superhuman "feats" relative to their rl counterparts.

Weasel. Superhuman (whether it is 0.0001% more) just proves sufficiency to defend against a human level attack.

Just pm Silent and ask him. No need to prove anything to you. I don't mind if you do not believe me. I'll be fine with it.

Originally posted by h1a8
Superhuman (whether it is 0.0001% more) just proves sufficiency to defend against a human level attack.

Just pm Silent and ask him. No need to prove anything to you. I don't mind if you do not believe me. I'll be fine with it.

Nope. You said so yourself. We don't take "highest feats" as his average.

Originally posted by h1a8
We should look at average (not high end).

Your highest demonstration of Miyagi's possible speed (flawed logic at that) is his bottle break. If it is just barely superhuman (.0001% as you say) and his average speed is slow AF when fighting slow AF opponents. It balances out his speed to somewhere between athletic old man to athletic not so old man. See? I can make up unquantifiable measurements based on non-evidence, too.

If you refuse to substantiate your claims, pretty much makes you a liar, doesn' it?

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Nope. You said so yourself. We don't take "highest feats" as his average.

Your highest demonstration of Miyagi's possible speed (flawed logic at that) is his bottle break. If it is just barely superhuman (.0001% as you say) and his average speed is slow AF when fighting slow AF opponents. It balances out his speed to somewhere between athletic old man to athletic not so old man. See? I can make up unquantifiable measurements based on non-evidence, too.

If you refuse to substantiate your claims, pretty much makes you a liar, doesn' it?


I also love how he makes claims about things that were apparently in the conversation between him and SM but, when asked to substantiate said claims, he tries to dump the responsibility of doing so on you two, by telling you to PM SM for proof.

Should we just post feats for Miyagi vs Chen Zhen and then ask for a ruling by Imp or someone? H1's not gonna prove anything, and he's just going to keep making claims he won't substantiate while disagreeing with canon because it's not as good as his theory.

Challenge him to a bz. Do not move the debate forward until he does.

Watch him turn tail and run.

I formally challenge you to a Battlezone, h1a8.

Mr. Miyagi vs Chen Zhen

It can be simple. Feats vs Feats. We both post whatever feats they have we think will help their case. Explain why we think it helps and why we think they win.

Impartial mods for judges.

It'll be quick I promise.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Nope. You said so yourself. We don't take "highest feats" as his average.



Your highest demonstration of Miyagi's possible speed (flawed logic at that) is his bottle break. If it is just barely superhuman (.0001% as you say) and his average speed is slow AF when fighting slow AF opponents. It balances out his speed to somewhere between athletic old man to athletic not so old man. See? I can make up unquantifiable measurements based on non-evidence, too.

If you refuse to substantiate your claims, pretty much makes you a liar, doesn' it?
So you are a proponent of visual acting speed being true speed. Well Im not. If I were then I can name a bunch of humans that are faster than Captain America.


So if we are to debate then we have to debate on that common ground.

It's understood that Miyagi has the speed and reflexes to easily parry karate masters attacks. If he was slow AF then we would have easily gotten tagged repeatedly by Kreese,Terry, Barnes, Johnny and the cobra Kai, etc. None of those guys are slow. Miyagi CONSISTENTLY AND CASUALLY parried and countered their attacks. This is consistent with his arrow catch and bottle break. Miyagi has no low showings to average.

You are confusing averaging.
If a character was shown to lift 100tons one time but easily lift 10tons a million times then their average is 100tons. Why? Because they have no contradictory low showings in which to estimate an average. Now if they were shown to struggle or not actually lift 50tons then their average is lower than 100tons.

Finally, you can't use my stance against me unless you agree with the stance. In other words, you have to believe in taking averages over highest feats solo. Otherwise, you have no ground to stand on.

Originally posted by KingD19
I formally challenge you to a Battlezone, h1a8.

Mr. Miyagi vs Chen Zhen

It can be simple. Feats vs Feats. We both post whatever feats they have we think will help their case. Explain why we think it helps and why we think they win.

Impartial mods for judges.

It'll be quick I promise.

Are you a proponent of visual acting speed as true speed? Or are you a proponent of a character having sufficient speed (despite visual speed) in order to perform the feats? For example, do you believe that Miyagi moved his hand fast FAR FASTER than his visual speed when catching the arrow, breaking the bottles, easily defending against Johnny and the Cobra Kai, Kreese, Barnes, and Terry?

And lastly, why not just debate here?

Originally posted by h1a8
Are you a proponent of visual acting speed as true speed? Or are you a proponent of a character having sufficient speed (despite visual speed) in order to perform the feats? For example, do you believe that Miyagi moved his hand fast FAR FASTER than his visual speed when catching the arrow, breaking the bottles, easily defending against Johnny and the Cobra Kai, Kreese, Barnes, and Terry?

And lastly, why not just debate here?

He isn't one of the judges, so his opinion won't effect the outcome of the BZ. are you going to accept his challenge or run away like the times you I challenged you?

Originally posted by h1a8
Are you a proponent of visual acting speed as true speed? Or are you a proponent of a character having sufficient speed (despite visual speed) in order to perform the feats? For example, do you believe that Miyagi moved his hand fast FAR FASTER than his visual speed when catching the arrow, breaking the bottles, easily defending against Johnny and the Cobra Kai, Kreese, Barnes, and Terry?

And lastly, why not just debate here?

I'm a proponent of feats and canon. We see Miyagi break the bottles, we see him fight some guys, and we see him catch a slow arrow. We see Chen Zhen send people flying, dodge bullets, etc... That's what happened on screen.

Also your logic is flawed. You're saying he moved fast enough to smash the bottles, but don't respond to my questions about Daniel and the other guys being able to see him in the act of smashing the bottles. Meaning either he's not that fast, or they all have 200mph+ reaction speed and vision.


Lastly, debating here gets us nowhere. You put up your theories, we put up feats, you dismiss the feats because your own logic is superior. BZ will put up rules you have to abide by and you can't just say "I don't feel like debating" or "blah blah blah" when you want to change the game up.

Originally posted by Silent Master
He isn't one of the judges, so his opinion won't effect the outcome of the BZ. are you going to accept his challenge or run away like the times you I challenged you?

I think I've got a pretty good case I can build in...20 minutes?

Notice how he tries to move the debate forward to try and weasel out of the BZ?

Just don't argue his wonky logic anymore and simply keep the debate stalled til he accepts.

We KNOW we can prove our points. We can STEP UP to prove them.

If he is unwilling to do the same. Then it is definitive proof that he KNOWS he is wrong and he is just arguing to not have to admit he is wrong.

Originally posted by KingD19
I'm a proponent of feats and canon. We see Miyagi break the bottles, we see him fight some guys, and we see him catch a slow arrow. We see Chen Zhen send people flying, dodge bullets, etc... That's what happened on screen.

Also your logic is flawed. You're saying he moved fast enough to smash the bottles, but don't respond to my questions about Daniel and the other guys being able to see him in the act of smashing the bottles. Meaning either he's not that fast, or they all have 200mph+ reaction speed and vision.


Lastly, debating here gets us nowhere. You put up your theories, we put up feats, you dismiss the feats because your own logic is superior. BZ will put up rules you have to abide by and you can't just say "I don't feel like debating" or "blah blah blah" when you want to change the game up.

I asked a yes or no question. You are making things unnecessarily complicated. That's the best way to not get a BZ.

Bottomline: Miyagi wins because he will not attack first. He will wait for Chen to attack and then parry or dodge and simultaneously counter attack. If Miyagi attacks first then he will lose everytime to Chen. This is my argument. If you disagree then kindly rebut my reasoning with sound logic.

Originally posted by h1a8
I asked a yes or no question. You are making things unnecessarily complicated. That's the best way to not get a BZ.

Bottomline: Miyagi wins because he will not attack first. He will wait for Chen to attack and then parry or dodge and simultaneously counter attack. If Miyagi attacks first then he will lose everytime to Chen. This is my argument. If you disagree then kindly rebut my reasoning with sound logic.

So you're going to run away from another challenge?

Lol. Look at him try to weasel out of the BZ.

Don't answer him til he accepts your challenge. He is just trying to move the debate forward to bog you down in useless time wasting so he can make you forget about the BZ. It's his basic M.O.

I challenge you to a BZ , h1.

I will only do a BZ if it's on fair AND common terms. You never answered my questions, so that's that.

Originally posted by h1a8
I will only do a BZ if it's on fair AND common terms. You never answered my questions, so that's that.


The terms are, you both make your arguments and the judges will pick the winner.

Watch him try to weasel out of the bz unless he is allowed to fix the rules to pre-establish his wonky theories as facts first so that he gets an advantage rather than arguing them in a bz and having judges scrutinize his logic....

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Watch him try to weasel out of the bz unless he is allowed to fix the rules to pre-establish his wonky theories as facts first so that he gets an advantage rather than arguing them in a bz and having judges scrutinize his logic....

That is exactly what he's trying to do.