Gellert Grindelwald thread

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DarthDuelist9
BEWARE SPOILERS FROM FANTASTIC BEASTS AND WHERE TO FIND THEM

I'm making a Gellert Grindelwald respect thread based on the Fantastic Beasts and Where to find Them screenplay and it will be added by any material there is released about him.

EmperorSidious2
Blocking all those auror spells at one time and knocking a couple out and only being taken down due to distraction is pretty good one

DarthDuelist9
Yeah, the screenplay even notes how he's taking them on and appears to be winning so it's quite impressive considering those aurors were strong enough to destroy the Obscurus that was tearing apart the entire city.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Yeah, the screenplay even notes how he's taking them on and appears to be winning so it's quite impressive considering those aurors were strong enough to destroy the Obscurus that was tearing apart the entire city.

He also had intentions on murdering President Picquery it seems.

quanchi112
The third greatest wizard.

1. Voldemort
2. Dumbledore
3. Grindelwald

Trocity
Just saw the movie tonight with my gf. One-shotting the group of 5 aurors at the beginning was cool. Blocking all the spells from the god knows how many aurors was impressive.

I also feel like over the course of the movie, he couldn't reveal just how powerful he was, since he was trying to maintain the Graves ruse, so he was 'nerfed'.

When newer movies come out, they inevitably try to one-up the previous ones and make them more cool and flashy; sincerely hope they don't make him seem more impressive than Tom was in the rest of the series, since Tom is canonically his superior.

I doubt he will ever have a feat on the level of one-shotting the Hogwarts barrier with a wand that wasn't working properly for him, though.

DarthDuelist9
Originally posted by Trocity
Just saw the movie tonight with my gf. One-shotting the group of 5 aurors at the beginning was cool. Blocking all the spells from the god knows how many aurors was impressive.

I also feel like over the course of the movie, he couldn't reveal just how powerful he was, since he was trying to maintain the Graves ruse, so he was 'nerfed'.

When newer movies come out, they inevitably try to one-up the previous ones and make them more cool and flashy; sincerely hope they don't make him seem more impressive than Tom was in the rest of the series, since Tom is canonically his superior.

I doubt he will ever have a feat on the level of one-shotting the Hogwarts barrier with a wand that wasn't working properly for him, though.

Depends on how you interpret Tom's superior quotes, there is nothing that contradicts Grindelwald being a better duelist.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Trocity
Just saw the movie tonight with my gf. One-shotting the group of 5 aurors at the beginning was cool. Blocking all the spells from the god knows how many aurors was impressive.

I also feel like over the course of the movie, he couldn't reveal just how powerful he was, since he was trying to maintain the Graves ruse, so he was 'nerfed'.

When newer movies come out, they inevitably try to one-up the previous ones and make them more cool and flashy; sincerely hope they don't make him seem more impressive than Tom was in the rest of the series, since Tom is canonically his superior.

I doubt he will ever have a feat on the level of one-shotting the Hogwarts barrier with a wand that wasn't working properly for him, though. Griendelwald will definitely come across better throughout the films by the series end. He won't come across as better than Voldemort who has already been established as the darkest wizard of all time and IMO the greatest; hands down. The duel between he and Albus should look amazing but he loses despite having the elder wand whereas Albus failed to best Tom and he himself had the advantage of the elder wand.

Keep in mind iirc the last year of the last film in the potter universe will probably shed light on Tom in Hogwarts.

The early rise of the greatest dark wizard while the fall of another.

quanchi112
Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Depends on how you interpret Tom's superior quotes, there is nothing that contradicts Grindelwald being a better duelist. Tom is the better duelist. We can already decide that from their shared opponent in Albus Dumbledore.

NotAllThatEvil
Originally posted by quanchi112
Tom is the better duelist. We can already decide that from their shared opponent in Albus Dumbledore.
Didn't he loose to albus too?

quanchi112
Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
Didn't he loose to albus too? What on earth are you talking about ? Albus failed against the greatest wizard of all time Lord Voldemort.

quanchi112

EmperorSidious2
The duel in The Ministry Atrium was considered a tie, however if you look at the events as they play out in the books, Voldemort did in fact flee while he was in Dumbledore water cage.

In the films it was shown for Voldemort, fleed after seeing his assault failed and Dumbledore was still standing.

It will be interesting to see how Dumbledore and Grindlewald shape up in these upcoming movies.

quanchi112
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
The duel in The Ministry Atrium was considered a tie, however if you look at the events as they play out in the books, Voldemort did in fact flee while he was in Dumbledore water cage.

In the films it was shown for Voldemort, fleed after seeing his assault failed and Dumbledore was still standing.

It will be interesting to see how Dumbledore and Grindlewald shape up in these upcoming movies. I argue based off the films alone, sport. Voldemort looked superior while Albus had the benefit of the most powerful wand whereas it's the other way around when he faced Grindelwald. Voldemort changed tactics to go after Harry his true target. He dictated the terms and the tone of the duel.

I expect their duel to be amazing but it won't detract from the greatest wizards placement in the universe aka Voldemort.


Voldemort is the greatest--common sense and logic

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by quanchi112
I argue based off the films alone, sport. Voldemort looked superior while Albus had the benefit of the most powerful wand whereas it's the other way around when he faced Grindelwald. Voldemort changed tactics to go after Harry his true target. He dictated the terms and the tone of the duel.

I expect their duel to be amazing but it won't detract from the greatest wizards placement in the universe aka Voldemort.


Voldemort is the greatest--common sense and logic

Then you can go back to the MVF cause here in this forum the books reign supreme. We've had this discussion and I've told you why he pouts you just made are not showings that prove Voldemort>Dumbledore.

This duel won't display that Grindlewald>Voldemort because it's been established that Voldemort>Grindlewald. However this duel between Dumbledore and Grindlewald of done correctly will be better than Dumbledore vs Grindlewald due to the weight and magnitude it holds and represents.

Discussed and defeated.

NotAllThatEvil
Would albus be considered a better duelist in his youth? If so, prime dumbledore vs grindelwald might be more impressive than old dumbledore vs voldemort.

Trocity
I don't see how Dumbledore could be a better duelist in his youth; his command over magic is never greater than in the original Harry Potter series when he duels Tom. The speed edge a younger Dumbledore might have is countered by the power and knowledge advantage the elder Dumbledore possesses.

All he need do is erect a barrier similar to the one in the Tom battle. Dumbledore is in his prime in the Harry Potter series.

Trocity
Originally posted by quanchi112
Griendelwald will definitely come across better throughout the films by the series end. He won't come across as better than Voldemort who has already been established as the darkest wizard of all time and IMO the greatest; hands down. The duel between he and Albus should look amazing but he loses despite having the elder wand whereas Albus failed to best Tom and he himself had the advantage of the elder wand.

Also, thumb up. Agree with this.

quanchi112
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Then you can go back to the MVF cause here in this forum the books reign supreme. We've had this discussion and I've told you why he pouts you just made are not showings that prove Voldemort>Dumbledore.

This duel won't display that Grindlewald>Voldemort because it's been established that Voldemort>Grindlewald. However this duel between Dumbledore and Grindlewald of done correctly will be better than Dumbledore vs Grindlewald due to the weight and magnitude it holds and represents.

Discussed and defeated. I do not care I debate based off the films alone. Take it or leave it.

So you believe the duel between Dumbledore and Grindelwald will be better than the duel between Dumbledore and Grindelwald. You wonder why it hurts my brain to decipher your sub par posts.

Voldemort was the greatest threat the wizarding world had ever seen. This is a big deal just not as big as the Voldemort threat.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by quanchi112
I do not care I debate based off the films alone. Take it or leave it.

So you believe the duel between Dumbledore and Grindelwald will be better than the duel between Dumbledore and Grindelwald. You wonder why it hurts my brain to decipher your sub par posts.

Voldemort was the greatest threat the wizarding world had ever seen. This is a big deal just not as big as the Voldemort threat.

Then you will be lost when I bring up book evidence. To each his own.

I believe it will be or at least should be portrayed better, not that Grindlewald is more powerful than Voldemort. This battle was described by many at the time as the greatest wizarding duel ever seen after all. Dumbledore battle with Voldemort didn't last nearly as long as Dumbledore and Grindlewalds.

Irrelevant to the point of Dumbledore vs Voldemort laughing out loud .

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
Would albus be considered a better duelist in his youth? If so, prime dumbledore vs grindelwald might be more impressive than old dumbledore vs voldemort.

I doubt he would be considered a better deulist. Any advantages he saw in his youth weren't really lost in his old age. Dumbledore,still maintained a level of speed and agility. This is displayed in Half Blood Prince where he swims to the cave in the books.

I would say IMO the duel will look better since it is in fact a 3 hour battle and th se are two very powerful figures in Dumbledore and Grindlewald and it was called the greatest duel of all time at the time. So I would,say it will and should look better than the Dumbledore vs Voldemort battle, but doesn't change wat we know that Voldemort>Grindlewald.

quanchi112
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Then you will be lost when I bring up book evidence. To each his own.

I believe it will be or at least should be portrayed better, not that Grindlewald is more powerful than Voldemort. This battle was described by many at the time as the greatest wizarding duel ever seen after all. Dumbledore battle with Voldemort didn't last nearly as long as Dumbledore and Grindlewalds.

Irrelevant to the point of Dumbledore vs Voldemort laughing out loud . Such as ?

So you agree Voldemort is better than Grindelwald. Voldemort also looked better against Albus with the most powerful wand in existence. Voldemort is truly the greatest. Even Albus knew in the end he himself couldn't stop Tom.

laughing out loud

DarthDuelist9
Voldemort was the one to run away in their duel and IIRC he was also protecting Harry so Dumbledore is better. You can go on the discuss how much influence the Elder Wand had etc

quanchi112
Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Voldemort was the one to run away in their duel and IIRC he was also protecting Harry so Dumbledore is better. You can go on the discuss how much influence the Elder Wand had etc False, Voldemort was there for Harry. Once Albus showed up he went after him but knew his time was limited due to Albus saying the Aurors were on their way so he went directly after Harry. Voldemort chose to leave when all the other wizards showed up. Albus foolishly watched in horror prior to unable to do anything other than speak to Harry.

NotAllThatEvil
Grindelwald would have stayed to fight the jurors. Just saying.

quanchi112
Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
Grindelwald would have stayed to fight the jurors. Just saying.

Well Gellert already went down to less. Fantastic beasts and just Albus alone without the elder wand.

laughing out loud

Voldemort is far greater, just sayin'.

Trocity
Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
Grindelwald would have stayed to fight the jurors. Just saying.

And gotten stomped, considering he lost to a lesser Dumbledore than the one Tom fought, while in possession of the Elder Wand.

I'm really not sure why people try to make a case for Grindelwald being better than Voldemort, Rowling makes it clear as day Voldemort is the greatest Dark Wizard ever. Period. Not Salazar Slytherin, not Gellert Grindelwald. Tom Riddle.

quanchi112
He already stuck around to fight in the first film and got wrecked. dope should have bolted. He pouted, gave a speech, and got served.


#TomRiddleisnumerouno

DarthDuelist9
lol, the screenplay confirms he was winning against the dozen aurors so your point is moot Quanch.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by quanchi112
Such as ?

So you agree Voldemort is better than Grindelwald. Voldemort also looked better against Albus with the most powerful wand in existence. Voldemort is truly the greatest. Even Albus knew in the end he himself couldn't stop Tom.

laughing out loud

If we were to get into the debate over Dumbledore vs Voldemort I would use the book version over movie version.

I've always agreed that Voldemort>Grindlewald. You can say all you want that Voldemort looked better, cause your perception is irrelevant. Facts point to a different direction, that Dumbledore is more powerful, and more skillful.

quanchi112
Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
lol, the screenplay confirms he was winning against the dozen aurors so your point is moot Quanch. He still lost as more were present. Newt beat him at this point. These guys were featless and it will matter on shared opponents not featless characters he didn't best either way. We know he isn't beating Albus and he has the elder wand. Wait and see.

smile

quanchi112
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
If we were to get into the debate over Dumbledore vs Voldemort I would use the book version over movie version.

I've always agreed that Voldemort>Grindlewald. You can say all you want that Voldemort looked better, cause your perception is irrelevant. Facts point to a different direction, that Dumbledore is more powerful, and more skillful. I don't give a shit. The movie is able to be seen and calculated in real time without relying on vague and hyperbolic statements.

False, Dumbledore has the best wand ever and he still didn't win. Voldemort also has better feats. Undeniable. Albus himself knew he would never best lord Voldemort.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by quanchi112
I don't give a shit. The movie is able to be seen and calculated in real time without relying on vague and hyperbolic statements.

False, Dumbledore has the best wand ever and he still didn't win. Voldemort also has better feats. Undeniable. Albus himself knew he would never best lord Voldemort.

I see a lot of assumptions based off perception instead of actual fact again.

quanchi112
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
I see a lot of assumptions based off perception instead of actual fact again. Using common sense and logic which you seem unable to grasp but here let me try something else, book boy.

In the Half-Blood Prince, Dumbledore himself states that Voldemort knows perhaps more magic than any other wizard alive. Is this correct, book nerd ?

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by quanchi112
Using common sense and logic which you seem unable to grasp but here let me try something else, book boy.

In the Half-Blood Prince, Dumbledore himself states that Voldemort knows perhaps more magic than any other wizard alive. Is this correct, book nerd ?

I don't recall that quote, if you could provide the page number so I can refresh myself that would be nice. Make sure you put in page number if you post the quote.

However I do remember something's related to where it's said Voldemort stretched the limits of magic farther than any wizard. That maybe what your referring too.

quanchi112
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
I don't recall that quote, if you could provide the page number so I can refresh myself that would be nice. Make sure you put in page number if you post the quote.

However I do remember something's related to where it's said Voldemort stretched the limits of magic farther than any wizard. That maybe what your referring too. I don't care enough to do so since you're the book guy. You lied about how the books portrayed the two wizards. You make me sick. I told you the cinematic version of Voldemort was definitely greater than Dumbledore. It seems even Albus from the books agrees.

EmperorSidious2

quanchi112
so you want to ignore the movie quote and discuss the love aspect only. Voldemort is more powerful and the technically superior of the two. Albus said so in the book you claimed to read. Again you're all over the place Albus had the elder wand Voldemort didn't. Albus if he was the greatest would beat someone who isn't if he also has the best wand in the land. He didn't but he beat Griendelwald who is inferior to Voldey mooting the point.


Anything else ?

DarthDuelist9
Can you even act normal Quanch? Or is even that beyond your limited thinking capabilities.

quanchi112
Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Can you even act normal Quanch? Or is even that beyond your limited thinking capabilities. You ask a superior being to dumb himself down to your levels. Don't be daft. My points are evidence based and my reasoning irrefutable.

siriuswriter
Originally posted by quanchi112
Using common sense and logic which you seem unable to grasp but here let me try something else, book boy.

In the Half-Blood Prince, Dumbledore himself states that Voldemort knows perhaps more magic than any other wizard alive. Is this correct, book nerd ?

I believe this is negatory.

He remarks that before Riddle knew he was a wizard, his powers were "surprisingly well-developed for such a young wizard..." p 276.

- and on p 501 Dumbledore says that as Voldemort Riddle had gone "further than anybody along the path that leads to immortality." Actually that's a quote of Voldemort's to his Death Eaters after his resurrection in book 4, but HBP is to hand and not GoF.

However, in SS/PS in a conversation between Dumbledore and McGonagall.

"You flatter me," said Dumbledore calmly. "Voldemort has powers I will never have."
"Only because you're too - well - noble to use them." p 11

So they have the same amount of power - Voldemort is just willing to do stuff that Dumbledore isn't. But Dumbledore is willing to do stuff that Voldemort isn't so there you go.

One could argue that Grindelwald is greater than Dumbledore - after all, Dumbledore did subscribe to Grindelwald's "greater good" anti-Muggle theory for a while. But then that was partially because Dumbledore loved Grindelwald, and we know that eventually Dumbledore defeated Grindelewald in a formal duel.

As far as Voldemort/Dumbledore dueling, the closest they get to it is in OotP, which is when Voldemort stops dueling to sort of take control of Harry. You could argue that Voldemort thought he was losing and so changed tactics... which is why I think Dumbledore is the most powerful out of the three.

Rowling has said that we'll get to see more about the relationship between Grindelwald and Voldemort, which I'm EXTREMELY excited to see.

So there's a Book Nerd's side.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by siriuswriter
I believe this is negatory.

He remarks that before Riddle knew he was a wizard, his powers were "surprisingly well-developed for such a young wizard..." p 276.

- and on p 501 Dumbledore says that as Voldemort Riddle had gone "further than anybody along the path that leads to immortality." Actually that's a quote of Voldemort's to his Death Eaters after his resurrection in book 4, but HBP is to hand and not GoF.

However, in SS/PS in a conversation between Dumbledore and McGonagall.

"You flatter me," said Dumbledore calmly. "Voldemort has powers I will never have."
"Only because you're too - well - noble to use them." p 11

So they have the same amount of power - Voldemort is just willing to do stuff that Dumbledore isn't. But Dumbledore is willing to do stuff that Voldemort isn't so there you go.

One could argue that Grindelwald is greater than Dumbledore - after all, Dumbledore did subscribe to Grindelwald's "greater good" anti-Muggle theory for a while. But then that was partially because Dumbledore loved Grindelwald, and we know that eventually Dumbledore defeated Grindelewald in a formal duel.

As far as Voldemort/Dumbledore dueling, the closest they get to it is in OotP, which is when Voldemort stops dueling to sort of take control of Harry. You could argue that Voldemort thought he was losing and so changed tactics... which is why I think Dumbledore is the most powerful out of the three.

Rowling has said that we'll get to see more about the relationship between Grindelwald and Voldemort, which I'm EXTREMELY excited to see.

So there's a Book Nerd's side.


Nice.

I'm also very excited for how she will develop Dumbledore and Grindlewalds relationship. Really interesting to see more about Dumbledore.

siriuswriter
http://moviepilot.com/p/j-k-rowling-confirms-grindelwald-is-seer-fantastic-beasts/4174075?utm_source=fb-stream-post&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=j-k-rowling-confirms-grindelwald-is-a-seer-in-fantastic-beasts

So, JK Rowling has officially announced that Grindlewald is even more powerful than any of us thought.

He's a Seer:
"A Seer is a gifted wizard or witch who has the ability to see into the future with their Inner Eye. Seers predict prophecies, which are then recorded and stored in the Hall of Prophecy in the Ministry of Magic's Department of Mysteries. Albus Dumbledore once told Harry Potter that seeing into the future is incredibly difficult because of the complexity of every single action and their consequences."

Ultimately however, the real danger is that if the dark wizard is a Seer as J.K. Rowling says, it also means he has a huge advantage over anyone else in the magical community (unless they also have a Seer fighting for them, which would be unlikely!) -moviepilot article, linked.

Which would mean that Dumbledore has proportionally more power, seeing as he beat Grindelwald in the first place.

EmperorSidious2
Nice, where'd you find that?

siriuswriter
The link at the top of the post. smile

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