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CW version of Flash.
- The team gets basic info, and a day's prep against the opponent(s).
- Barry gets a pep-talk from Iris before the actual fight.
- Their opponent(s) doesn't get any prep on Barry, or the team.
- Team Flash gets smart, non-evil, yet kinda-dickish Wells, for this fight.

So who is the weakest person/group that can bring them down, under these stips?

Honestly unless Barry is ooc I could see MCU cap taking him.

I disagree there. Nowadays, Barry only jobs against non-speedsters when the plot specifically demands it, unlike during the first season, where every villain of the week kicked his ass during their initial encounters. Guys like Weather Wizard and the Trickster still had to plant bombs during the one episode in S2, to prevent him just blitzing them. In fact, a lot of the time in S2 when he didn't blitz people, there was some plot involved. Sand Demon needed a specific way to be stopped, Dr Light looked like his ex, he let the new Firestorm take the lead against that other guy, he had to remain undercover during the episode Golden Glider had a bomb in her neck, etc. Instead of jobbing, they just have him make other ass decisions now (like giving up his speed when Wally was already safe, creating Flashpoint etc.).

And, in anyways, it's the whole team involved, they have prep, and Barry gets one of his legendary pep-talks, which usually results in him operating at peak. That's why I included that line. So everyone knows Barry is operating at high end. I made this thread because that team can be kinda hax when they have some time to prep. Cisco can build almost anything.

It had more to do with Cap's durability, I'm most certainly not saying Barry can't own him because he easily has the ability but I put cap above even Grodd in terms of durability and strength. I also don't know what the team could prep to deal with Cap. He is far more skilled than Ollie who has been shown to exploit Barry's predictability.

Just my thoughts, Barry at peak probably gets stopped by someone like Thing (not the newer version) or possibly Blob.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
It had more to do with Cap's durability, I'm most certainly not saying Barry can't own him because he easily has the ability but I put cap above even Grodd in terms of durability and strength. I also don't know what the team could prep to deal with Cap. He is far more skilled than Ollie who has been shown to exploit Barry's predictability.

Just my thoughts, Barry at peak probably gets stopped by someone like Thing (not the newer version) or possibly Blob. Didn't Barry knock out the dude made of Steel (girder I think) by building up some speed? That should work fine on Cap. Barry with no jobing/PIS should be able to take Cap. Emphasis on "should"

He's too damn hard to clearly define for vs battles. Him at his best should be pretty hard to top, but he also has some pathetic lows.

So to be clear, this is only Barry who's fighting right? His team is only for prep and strategy, kinda like how they do it on the show.

Yes, but Cisco and friends can prep him and give him info.

Maybe Apocalypse

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
It had more to do with Cap's durability, I'm most certainly not saying Barry can't own him because he easily has the ability but I put cap above even Grodd in terms of durability and strength. I also don't know what the team could prep to deal with Cap. He is far more skilled than Ollie who has been shown to exploit Barry's predictability.

Just my thoughts, Barry at peak probably gets stopped by someone like Thing (not the newer version) or possibly Blob.

Barry himself has built up some decent durability feats over the seasons. Just the last episode, Savitar was tossing him around like a sack of potatoes, sending him tumbling and skidding and knocking into objects etc. In another episode, he shoulderchecked the Rival to send him tumbling hundreds of yards (the laws of physics, action/reaction all that). He's taken hits from Grodd, screams from Black Siren (who was dropping buildings), lightning bolts from WW, hits from King Shark, Atom Smasher etc. all without picking up serious damage. So he's picked up some decent showings himself, at this point.

And I don't put Cap above Grodd at all, personally. Grodd got rammed by a speeding train, seemingly without any injury, and could easily smash his way through walls, and send people sailing through the air with casual swipes. Not to mention, he was actually straight-up fast enough to catch one of Barry's supersonic punches. Also, Ollie beat a fairly noob, mind-controlled Barry. I don't see Ollie doing nearly as well against the current version.

IMO, without Barry jobbing, he could literally just cuff Cap before he knew what was happening. I mean we've seen Barry blitz people into containment cells on numerous occasions when the plot didn't require him to act like an asshat first. We also see in AoU how Cap's movement speed is relevant to a proper speedster. Unless he blindsides one, he is somewhat outclassed. Because it's not like QS was some uber strategist either. His attack MO consisted mostly of shouldercharging people. Barry's biggest handicap, IMO, is morals. He can use things like phase attacks (he even managed to use it to easily break metal cuffs holding Joe, during the s2 finale), but he won't use that attack on people.

Now, in a relatively random encounter, and you give Cap some terrain to work with, and a couple of minutes of planning, and I see things possibly going differently.

Originally posted by FrothByte
So to be clear, this is only Barry who's fighting right? His team is only for prep and strategy, kinda like how they do it on the show.

Yeah, the basic show MO, except the team has a day's prep here, and Barry won't job during the actual fight. He'd be operating at the best levels we've seen him.

Originally posted by Arachnid1
Didn't Barry knock out the dude made of Steel (girder I think) by building up some speed? That should work fine on Cap. Barry with no jobing/PIS should be able to take Cap. Emphasis on "should"

He's too damn hard to clearly define for vs battles. Him at his best should be pretty hard to top, but he also has some pathetic lows.

As I mentioned, this is not low-end Barry. This is high-end, beating Zoom/RF, clearing Nanda Parbat in moments, solo'ing a 100 metas in like 10 seconds, Flash.

Just to clarify, prep includes access to Cisco's vibe abilities, etc. Also, while Barry would obviously be the main opponent, the team is allowed to assist in exactly the same capacity as they do on the show. Because the rest of the them do occasionally step in more directly, when the situation demands it.

Basically, to summarise, whoever it is, is going up against Team Flash, as they are shown operating on the show, at peak, and with a day to prep.

With the revised OP I would say maybe the combination of Tony and Rhodes. Their tech advantage could help deal with the team issue and they have the durability to handle the beating especially if Tony analyzes while War Machine leads.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
With the revised OP I would say maybe the combination of Tony and Rhodes. Their tech advantage could help deal with the team issue and they have the durability to handle the beating especially if Tony analyzes while War Machine leads.

This is pretty close to what I was thinking. Iron Man/War Machine tier opponents. Because, as with Team Flash, jobbing is off for their opponents.

I thought about it more and I'm putting my bottom tier to beat flash at pre-stone Ronan. He is very strong and durable and actually showed a lot of skill vs Drax. Also an alien tech weapon would be hard for the team to analyze.

I'm not convinced of Ronan myself. This week will give us a good idea of how they deal with aliens. All Ronan had was a hammer, as standard (at least that I can recall), so not sure how much of a problem that'd be in anyways. But, so far it already didn't take them too long to figure out how to locate & shut down the alien mind-control device from The Flash episode. It wasn't even 10 minutes. Never mind a day.