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This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does not live by his own golden rule.

God kills when he could just as easily cure. This is irrefutable.

This is a clear violation of the golden rule. The golden rule as articulated by Jesus.

God then is clearly evil.

Do you agree with Jesus that anyone who breaks the golden rule is evil?

Regards
DL

"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him? Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." - Matthew 7:11-12

The purpose of Jesus giving "The Golden Rule" is to tell His followers to love others with a giving, proactive love, to treat people as they would want to be treated. Like any of God's commandments, God doesn't have to follow them Himself. For example:

- God killing and people cold-blooded murdering others are different: God is The Creator of life, and He can transport a soul or souls from this life to the next as He sees fit; people can't make that call.
- Mark 3:1-6 is an account of Jesus, God in the flesh, healing on the Sabbath, which was supposed to be a day of resting from works. As Lord of the Sabbath, Jesus could heal/work.

If your parents gave you a bedtime of 9pm when you were a kid, does that mean they have to go to bed at the same time or they were breaking the rule? No. Same with God, only on a much grander scale; His laws are not greater than Him, they are meant to govern humanity.

Also, The Bible has different covenants, all with different things that apply to a person, people in general, or a specific people group. Like, say, The Old Covenant/Testament practice of Israel making animal sacrifices for sins was fulfilled for all time by Jesus Christ, The Lamb of God, offering Himself once and for all as The Payment for the sins of all mankind (Hebrews 2:9; 2:17; 4:14-16; 5:6; 7:26-27; 9:12).

Three links to consider man, and I'm citing them because I used them for information in the preceding paragraph:

https://gotquestions.org/God-heal-everyone.html
https://gotquestions.org/Golden-Rule.html
https://www.str.org/articles/does-god-have-to-obey-the-ten-commandments#.WDs-IdI0Pcs

I'm a believer in Christ, so please feel free to message me if you have any questions. I'm not saying I'll know every answer, but we can have a civil, positive dialogue for real.

Why did god give us such fragile bodies? Where are the super powers? The angels got super powers.

Here I am, a person with just one face, when I could have been given four faces..one of which is a lion.

Originally posted by Surtur
Why did god give us such fragile bodies? Where are the super powers? The angels got super powers.

Here I am, a person with just one face, when I could have been given four faces..one of which is a lion.

I'll see what answers I can give you Surtur, and, yes, I'd like superpowers too haha.

"Why did God give us such fragile bodies?"
God did not originally: the bodies of Adam and Eve were immortal. Their choice to disobey God in The Garden of Eden/The Fall of Man (Genesis 3) caused them to become sinners and make humanity inherit sin nature (Romans 5:12).

"Where are the super powers?"
One of the commands God gave Adam in Genesis 1:28 concerning being a steward of the earth and its natural resources was to "subdue it". Adam was alive/a contemporary of both Methusaleh and Lamech (Noah's grandfather and father, respectively): people were long-lived before the flood, and then the life expectancy of the patriarchs started to decline. Moses lived to be only 120 years, but he still had the same physical capabilities as when he was in his youth (Deuteronony 34:7). People like Samson, who had superhuman strength, were special cases (in Samson's case, he was a Nazarite and had to fulfill a Nazarite vow; when Delilah cut his hair, he had broken his vow and at the same time turned his back on God, thus he lost his strength).

"Here I am, a person with just one face, when I could have been given four faces..one of which is a lion."
The four faces represent different aspects of Jesus:
- Lion - Gospel of Matthew = Jesus' Kingship
- Ox - Gospel of Mark = Jesus' Servitude
- Man - Gospel of Luke = Jesus' Humanity
- Eagle - Gospel of John = Jesus' Divinity/Godhood

Also, anyone who believes/trusts in Jesus Christ as The Payment for their sins will have a resurrected body that is physically "superhuman" one day (1 Corinthians 15:35-54).

Originally posted by Greatest I am
This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does not live by his own golden rule.

God kills when he could just as easily cure. This is irrefutable.

This is a clear violation of the golden rule. The golden rule as articulated by Jesus.

God then is clearly evil.

Do you agree with Jesus that anyone who breaks the golden rule is evil?

Regards
DL

The god of the bible is man-made, therefore he is a reflection of both good and bad, just like humans.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The god of the bible is man-made, therefore he is a reflection of both good and bad, just like humans.

Which men made Him, if I might ask?

Originally posted by John Murdoch
Which men made Him, if I might ask?
man-made

made or caused by human beings (as opposed to occurring or being made naturally); artificial.

Originally posted by John Murdoch
Which men made Him, if I might ask? Bunch of dead men.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
man-made

made or caused by human beings (as opposed to occurring or being made naturally); artificial.

If The God of The Bible is The One who inspired these human beings to write His Word, He is not made up.

Also, the 66 individual books that comprise The Bible were written by over 40 authors, over 1600+ years, on 3 separate continents, yet The Bible is without contradiction, and has a single central character (Jesus Christ) and theme (His redemptive work on all men's behalf). The Quran, The Book of Mormon, the Jehovah's Witnesses' version of The Bible, the New World Translation, were either written by one man (Muhammed or Joseph Smith in the first two's case) or a group of people (Watchtower's translation team), yet have contradictions and/or anachronisms that compromise the integrity of the work. So, if say, Muhammed couldn't get 100% accuracy within his own writing of the Quran, which took him 22 years to complete, yet 40+ authors over 1600+ years did get 100% accuracy and agreement in The Bible, reason dictates something, or Someone, was guiding The Bible authors' efforts.

The issue is with saying that the Catholic Church, any Gnostic group, or another XYZ group wrote it is that these groups is that both:

A) Their doctrines and teachings don't line up with what is in The Bible, yet they supposedly wrote it. For example, Catholicism adopted celibacy of the priesthood (by the way, The New Testament/Covenant did away with the priesthood) and not eating meat during portions of Lent, yet 1 Timothy 3:1-4 outright declares making those acts mandatory rules to follow are "doctrines of devils".
B) These groups either came 3 or more centuries after Jesus, or opposed Him and/or His Word/teachings when He walked the earth. For example, Gnostics were Rabbinic Jews - those that made The Old Testament Scriptures EQUAL to oral tradition - not Kairite Jews - The Scriptures alone are God's authoritative Word.

And yes, Lucien, they are dead, but you bring up a good thought: the men who wrote The Bible were just like you and me and everyone else (save Christ), sinners. Noah was a drunk. Moses a murderer. Peter denied Christ 3 times. In the case of Moses, he is the one who wrote his own failings in Exodus - Deuteronomy. Same with Solomon, Jonah, Paul, and really most of the writers of The Old and New Testaments. All heels. All failures. But all who believed in God, and He used them.

Also, let's take The Apostles: all of them could have gone back to being loved by the community, successful in their careers, free from constant endangerment by people wanting to kill them for preaching The Gospel. If fact, Simon Peter, Thomas, Nathanael, James, John, and two more disciples were doing just that before Jesus appeared to them (John chp. 21). But seeing Jesus risen from the dead changed them; they all died horrible deaths (except John, who was sent into exile on Patmos) instead of living out peaceful lives in order to preach The Gospel, Jesus' work on our behalf.

I mean I get it guys: I was a Catholic for 17+ years. Born into it. First communion. Confirmation. Learned it pretty well. Was skeptical of how The Bible could be God's Word. I knew of Jesus, but finally one day actually believed on Him and knew Him from that day onward.

But good discussion so far, it's beneficial to me and hopefully to you all as well.

TL;DR - Christianity being legit is based on if The Bible is 100% true or not. If it isn't, it falls. But there is evidence to consider that proves The Bible, and, thus, Christianity are true.

Originally posted by John Murdoch
TL;DR - Christianity being legit is based on if The Bible is 100% true or not. If it isn't, it falls. But there is evidence to consider that proves The Bible, and, thus, Christianity are true.

I have not seen this proof. What people have claimed was proof, most often is circular logic.

Circular reasoning (Latin: circulus in probando, "circle in proving"; also known as circular logic) is a logical fallacy in which the reasoner begins with what they are trying to end with. The components of a circular argument are often logically valid because if the premises are true, the conclusion must be true.

Shakyamunison, what would you say to these links right here:

https://www.gotquestions.org/Constantine-Bible.html
https://www.gotquestions.org/council-of-Nicea.html
https://www.gotquestions.org/origin-Catholic-church.html

What about that history shows that after Catholicism became the official religion of the Roman Empire, it persecuted true Biblical Christians under the guise of "Christianity" being the state religion in Fox's Book of Martyrs? I mean, Catholicism does not follow the doctrines of The Bible, and has its roots in mingling paganism and Christianity.

Also, all contradictions go back to looking at a passage in context within in The Bible.

What proof would you need? I mean you obviously affirm that Constantine existed. What about the other Caesars? Alexander? We have more manuscript evidence for the texts in The Old and New Testaments than any other document, plus historians like Josephus and Tactitus (Jewish and Roman, respectively) that attest that Jesus and His followers existed. Can we not trust those but trust the histories of others that spoke of leaders like Alexander and the Caesars? What about George Washington?

Originally posted by John Murdoch
Shakyamunison, what would you say to these links right here:

https://www.gotquestions.org/Constantine-Bible.html
https://www.gotquestions.org/council-of-Nicea.html
https://www.gotquestions.org/origin-Catholic-church.html

What about that history shows that after Catholicism became the official religion of the Roman Empire, it persecuted true Biblical Christians under the guise of "Christianity" being the state religion in Fox's Book of Martyrs? I mean, Catholicism does not follow the doctrines of The Bible, and has its roots in mingling paganism and Christianity.

Catholics are Christian. Just because they do not believe in your interpretation of the bible does not mean they are not Christians.

I assume you are a Proustian because you sound like one (but I could be wrong). That means your denomination of Christianity came from the Catholic Church. Unless you are a Coptic Christian, but you don't sound like one to me.

The idea that somehow your religion is separate is a relatively new idea, that is wrong.

Originally posted by John Murdoch
Also, all contradictions go back to looking at a passage in context within in The Bible.

What proof would you need? I mean you obviously affirm that Constantine existed. What about the other Caesars? Alexander? We have more manuscript evidence for the texts in The Old and New Testaments than any other document, plus historians like Josephus and Tactitus (Jewish and Roman, respectively) that attest that Jesus and His followers existed. Can we not trust those but trust the histories of others that spoke of leaders like Alexander and the Caesars? What about George Washington?

Just because Jesus DID exist doesn't mean that the Jesus of the bible was real. Most of the stories of Jesus in the bible were fused with Mithras who's story is similar in many key ways.

The way to determine if history is correct, is to look at multiple sources for information.

Originally posted by John Murdoch
TL;DR - Christianity being legit is based on if The Bible is 100% true or not. If it isn't, it falls. But there is evidence to consider that proves The Bible, and, thus, Christianity are true.

Wait just to be clear, do you think the bible actually happened?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Catholics are Christian. Just because they do not believe in your interpretation of the bible does not mean they are not Christians.

I assume you are a Proustian because you sound like one (but I could be wrong). That means your denomination of Christianity came from the Catholic Church. Unless you are a Coptic Christian, but you don't sound like one to me.

The idea that somehow your religion is separate is a relatively new idea, that is wrong.

But that's just it: The Bible is the standard for Christianity. 2 Peter 1:20-21 talks about that ("...that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." What I'm saying is that the Catholic Church sets themselves up as the authority on Biblical matters, but yet history and The Bible itself disproves that.

I understand that you think that is circular reasoning, but it is not. The Catholic Church claims they are the one true church that Jesus founded in Jerusalem, but when put under the microscope for what determines a true church (The Bible), their history, actions, and doctrines all prove that they are not. Again, you may not believe that The Bible is legit, but the Catholic Church says it is, and that their following it, but yet they aren't. They can't have their cake and eat it too in this instance. Their taking a test, and they've got the cheat sheet, yet they've still got the wrong answers.

I mean, it's not a knock against you in anyway, Shakyamunison. In fact I appreciate the discussion. But Catholicism and the papacy has warred against The Bible and Christians in some way, shape, or form since its foundations.

Independent Baptist man, but was a Catholic for the first 17+ years of my life. I believed upon Christ just before I was 18.

http://mbbc.us/resource/bibleanswers.pdf

Check out the "Church" section.

What do you mean by Predestines?

Ah, gotcha. No problem man. Well, we start at Jesus' church founded at Jerusalem:

- persecution occurs in Jerusalem (Acts 8:1)
- the church is founded at Antioch (Acts 11:19-26)
- more churches are founded (the epistles were written to them, and Revelation chapters 1-3, specifically chapter 1, verses 11-13)
- however, the Catholic Church either never was a true church or had its candlestick removed when it perverted The Gospel.

This is an excerpt from the above resource I mentioned from mbbc.us:

"Though proper lineage is difficult to prove because of church persecution and destruction of records, it
is possible to eliminate most churches based on improper lineage. For example, when the Catholic church corrupted
the doctrine of the Gospel it died and all Protestant churches that subsequently descended from her are without
authority: Lutheran, Dutch Reform, Methodist, Presbyterian, etc."

My argument is that from Jesus' church at Jerusalem through today there have always been churches that Jesus, The Head of the church/body, would have his approval upon (the candlestick). A book I recommend is A History of Churches: The Survival of New Testament Christianity Against Overwhelming Odds by Pastor Lester Hutson.

I know that there are, most likely, more Christian denominations these days than superhero movies, but

- the church existed before Catholicism
- either from the get-go or at some point in its history, the Catholic Church lost its candlestick due to corruption of The Gospel, and any Protestant church that came from it can't be a true church
- churches were attacked by the Catholic Church/papacy throughout history for simply following The Bible. Whether these groups were called Baptists or not, I'd have to do some research on.

Originally posted by Surtur
Wait just to be clear, do you think the bible actually happened?

Yes

Like all of it? Old Testament stuff too?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Like all of it? Old Testament stuff too?

If so..there is an upside. There is this one passage where this guy gets attacked by some kids and then he has some motherf*cking bears murder them and shit.

If this happened it means bear control is possible. Today has been a great victory for science.

Originally posted by Surtur
If so..there is an upside. There is this one passage where this guy gets attacked by some kids and then he has some motherf*cking bears murder them and shit.

If this happened it means bear control is possible. Today has been a great victory for science. Yes!



http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/BearCavalry.jpg

Just imagine an atomic bomb, but instead of energy it explodes with..f*cking bears. Polar bears, grizzly bears, the bald headed bear from that John Candy movie. All bears.

hIvSO8PpW5U

Oh shit..oh shit..just had a million dollar idea. Bearnado.

No wait, Bearnami. Bearricane. Someone needs to take a time machine back into the past and make these films so they are ready right now.

Maybe someone already tried to but went too far. And it was Terminator time travel so it was one way. So they just made the best of it and made some bears maul children until it got worked into the Old Testament.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Like all of it? Old Testament stuff too?

Yes

Originally posted by nfactor1995
Yes

But it actually didn't happen. The bible says the Earth was created in a very short time span. That is just the tip of the iceberg. It would also mean God is a murderer.

Let me ask you this: you believe everything in the bible is true. But do you follow everything in the bible? For example if the bible says a certain thing is good you find it good,and if it says a certain thing is bad you find that thing bad?

Originally posted by nfactor1995
Yes Like... literally? Even the stuff that runs completely contrary to modern science?



Or the part where God killed 14,700 people because they complained that God kept killing people?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Or the part where God killed 14,700 people because they complained that God kept killing people?

This is totally not something a psychopath would do.

Originally posted by Surtur
This is totally not something a psychopath would do. God... loves? all his children.


God especially loved the guy who, when a mob formed outside his house and demanded they turn over his houseguest so that they can rape him, he offered up his concubine to them instead. And after a night of being brutally raped she collapsed on her master's doorstep. In the morning he took her away on his donkey and dismembered her into 12 parts, sending a piece each to all corners of Israel.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
God... loves? all his children.


God especially loved the guy who, when a mob formed outside his house and demanded they turn over his houseguest so that they can rape him, he offered up his concubine to them instead. And after a night of being brutally raped she collapsed on her master's doorstep. In the morning he took her away on his donkey and dismembered her into 12 parts, sending a piece each to all corners of Israel.

Well the lord works in mysterious ways. He's above us so somehow this passage isn't horrifying at all.

Originally posted by Surtur
Well the lord works in mysterious ways. He's above us so somehow this passage isn't horrifying at all. Yes, this is a God I would be proud to call my Lord. I would love him almost as much as he loved me.



I would be especially proud of my Old Testament God if, should I die, and my brother marries my widow, the Lord kills my brother for not getting my widow pregnant.


What a great and wonderful God.

Originally posted by Greatest I am
This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does not live by his own golden rule.Non-sequitur. God not living by his own golden rule would make him a hypocrite if we were to follow your argument to its conclusion. You offer no premise in support of the conclusion that God is therefore evil.Yes, it is irrefutable.

The golden rule as articulated by Jesus is "So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets."

Jesus was preaching to a crowd of people. Using your hyper-literary logic, the golden rule only applied that particular crowd of people and nobody else.

What's also articulated by Jesus and scripture is that God is the sole and divine judge over humanity.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/tg/jesus-christ-judge?lang=eng

Therefore, God clearly has a role different than human beings and thus Jesus was referring to God's divine judgment/authority when he was discussing the golden rule.

To put it another way, kidnapping people is illegal in the United States. Kidnapping is defined as confining someone against their will in a place they do not wish to be in. The United States regularly confines people against their will in places they do not wish to be in by sending them to jail. Therefore, if we are to follow your reasoning, the United States is breaking the law for putting people in jail and should be punished.


Nope, not just because of what I just said above, but also because Jesus says no such thing. Read the actual verse before making a syllogism about it.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Yes, this is a God I would be proud to call my Lord. I would love him almost as much as he loved me.



I would be especially proud of my Old Testament God if, should I die, and my brother marries my widow, the Lord kills my brother for not getting my widow pregnant.


What a great and wonderful God.

So God kills the guy because he was essentially defective. Almost sounds like some form of Eugenics.

Originally posted by Surtur
But it actually didn't happen. The bible says the Earth was created in a very short time span. That is just the tip of the iceberg.

where? just because it says 6 days, you immediately assume it was a 24-hour day... remember, the seasons and time were only created on the 4th day

Originally posted by Surtur
It would also mean God is a murderer.

how? by not sustaining the life of a human being? if you believe that God provides life, why would you accuse Him of murder when He just stops sustaining the life He gave?

it's like you're giving money to your parents or children monthly... and when you stop giving money, they accuse you of abandonment of financial support

Originally posted by John Murdoch
"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him? Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." - Matthew 7:11-12

The purpose of Jesus giving "The Golden Rule" is to tell His followers to love others with a giving, proactive love, to treat people as they would want to be treated. Like any of God's commandments, God doesn't have to follow them Himself. For example:

- B]

As above, so below.

Are you a father, and would you say to your child, do as I say and not as I do?

Further, scriptures say that we are to emulate God and his perfection. If God can say, do as I say and not as I do, then so should we all as we are told to emulate all of God's ways.

Right?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by John Murdoch


"Why did God give us such fragile bodies?"
God did not originally: the bodies of Adam and Eve were immortal.

If already immortal, then God locking away the tree of life made no difference to the immortality that you say A & E already had.

Seems that the immortality you say A & E had was somehow defective as they died.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The god of the bible is man-made, therefore he is a reflection of both good and bad, just like humans.

I agree, but does the God as portrayed in scriptures follow the Golden rule?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by John Murdoch
Which men made Him, if I might ask?

Scriptures come from Jewish plagiarizing the creation myths of Sumer and Egypt.

Read the end of the Book of the Dead and you will see the 10 commandments.

Read this link and see how Christianity reversed the Jewish version of Eden as the place of our elevation and not the fall that you believe in in spite of the biblical verses that prove otherwise.

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/10/20/comparative-theodicy/

Regards
DL