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Trying to gauge exactly where Jadus ranks as a Force user.

-Both at their unamped peaks
-No morals, and are willing to win by any means

Who wins?

Dooku's infinitely more refined and probably just as powerful.

Jadus

Originally posted by Azronger
Dooku's infinitely more refined Naw.

Jadus.

Jadus.

Jadus.

*Shrug*
Hard and very good battle.
From what we've seen, Jadus could very well be more powerful, but ragdolling Kenobi is a better combt feat than Jadus has(obviously). So the question is, how much of his power Jadus can use in combat.
TP should go in Jadus' favor, but I don't think it would be something deciding.
Lightning, on the other hand, is Dooku's game, and I think it could have very well a affect.
Teleportation might could give Jadus an edge, as he would have more time to gain energy, and it may could confuse Dooku for a short time, if he hasn't former knowledge.

So, completely dunno, tbh.

I rate Malgus and Dooku about the same and Jadus is stated to be above him along with constantly holding together a capital ship whilst accomplishing his other feats similar to Nihilus.

Jadus >=< Dooku > Malgus.

Malgus is sub Kit Fisto. The fact his lightning can blast holes in a Jedi Knight that has better TK feats than Kyle Katarn, while massively pre-prime and fatally injured is just a detail.

Shaking a transport with your rage pre prime and throwing back Thor and HoT seems about as good as dominating Kenobi and Dooku's various unamped feats tbh.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Shaking a transport with your rage pre prime and
Quote? Anyway, when it's about Anakin's rage you always say that it amps him, but that isn't the caye for Malgus it seems mmm

Wow, he pushed them, while they were off-guard. Impressive.

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
Malgus is sub Kit Fisto. The fact his lightning can blast holes in a Jedi Knight that has better TK feats than Kyle Katarn, while massively pre-prime and fatally injured is just a detail.
Nobody said that he is Sub-Fisto, lmfao. He is only Sub-Dooku, who is vastly above Fisto.
Quote btw? I don't see how it's more impressive than Dooku killing Ventress with lightning, while injured, atm.
And Dooku's TK feats > Malgus'

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Quote? Anyway, when it's about Anakin's rage you always say that it amps him, but that isn't the caye for Malgus it seems mmm

Wow, he pushed them, while they were off-guard. Impressive.

Malgus blitzed the four protags? lmao

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
Malgus blitzed the four protags? lmao
?
He pushed them, and they we're talking just a moment prior.
Also, I fail to see how that is > Dooku. I mean, Bulq pushed an more powerful Jedi than the protags and Dooku crushed him.

If he abuses his teleportation, Jadus wins with room to spare. Otherwise he wins, but it's a great fight

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Nobody said that he is Sub-Fisto, lmfao. He is only Sub-Dooku, who is vastly above Fisto.
Quote btw? I don't see how it's more impressive than Dooku killing Ventress with lightning, while injured, atm.
And Dooku's TK feats > Malgus'

That was an irony.

Blasting holes through a Jedi powerful enough to bring down two buildings over Malgus, by overpowering their lightsaber defense while massively pre-prime and fatally injured is better in my opinion - I agree it's subjective though.

Throwing "cruisers", while amped by an unknown ammount, is a good feat. Malgus holding off a freighter (and the largest ones are considered to be cruisers too) that had it's engines at full power - engines that can accelerate at hundreds of G's, therefore multiplying it's weight accordingly - before killing Eleena and receiving a significant increase in power and is absolutely comparable.



I never claimed that > Dooku, only it's asnine to believe Malgus caught the team off guard when they were talking, with their complete atention focused on Malgus and in front him, and then he jumps from his throne and pushes them. The only reasonable alternative is that he blitzed them.

Nah, I know, but you seemed pissed of that I rank Fooku above him.

Tbh , with TOR you can never be sure, like with TCW

Eh, it isn't solely the Cruiser feat that puts Dooku > Malgus for me, but also his ragdolling of Kenobi.

The last part was mainly to show, how unimpressive it is, lol. Dooku's feats, and Malgus Deceived feat >>>>

It's pretty easy to surmise they weren't caught off-guard. They had just fought their way through the entire station, and were now talking with the False Emperor himself inside his throne room. It would be foolish not to assume they were ready to fight him at any time. He simply broke through their defenses, just like he does throughout the fight with his Force choking of three of the members of the team. Before anyone starts saying "game mechanics are non-canon and not applicable," consider that if it consistently happens, we can surmise it's meant to be part if the encounter, and as such we can treat it as "canon." A common way of debunking this is by saying "if there's only three people in the group, that only two get choked." That's true, but then that's not the canonical situation, nor is it canonical for there to be three HoT's.

No lol.

Nice argument
How will I ever recover

Try an hero

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Nah, I know, but you seemed pissed of that I rank Fooku above him.

Tbh , with TOR you can never be sure, like with TCW

Eh, it isn't solely the Cruiser feat that puts Dooku > Malgus for me, but also his ragdolling of Kenobi.

The last part was mainly to show, how unimpressive it is, lol. Dooku's feats, and Malgus Deceived feat >>>>

Why don't you have Dooku above Vader, then? Vader never threw cruisers and never legitimaly ragdolled someone more powerful than Kenobi.

Fair enough, I consider ragdolling to be highly circunstantial and the cruiser feat to be inclusive considering the unknown amp Dooku received and the fact Malgus hold on a freighter that effectivelly multiplied it's weight hundred fold, before receiving a significant power boost.

It's totally irrelevant, yes, but it isn't as retarded as trying to say he caught them off guard. I know you just repeated what you read, though.

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
Why don't you have Dooku above Vader, then? Don't encourage him.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Try an hero

I have. 7 times. Hasn't worked

Edit: 11 if you count all the various things I tired over the course of 5 minutes

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
Why don't you have Dooku above Vader, then? Vader never threw cruisers and never legitimaly ragdolled someone more powerful than Kenobi.

Fair enough, I consider ragdolling to be highly circunstantial and the cruiser feat to be inclusive considering the unknown amp Dooku received and the fact Malgus hold on a freighter that effectivelly multiplied his weight undred fold, before receiving a significant power boost.

It's totally irrelevant, yes, but it isn't as retarded as trying to say he caught them off guard. I know you just repeated what you read, though.
Vader's domination of 'Killer+growth > Dooku

Yeah, but Kenobi himself manipulated also an large ship shortly after AotC, and Dooku ragdolled him I search the quote atm

Everything is possible in SWTOR

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Vader's domination of 'Killer+growth > Dooku

Yeah, but Kenobi himself manipulated also an large ship shortly after AotC, and Dooku ragdolled him I search the quote atm

Everything is possible in SWTOR

The domination where he fails to keep Starkiller in a telekinetic hold? It's especially of note to consider that Vader already dealt with Galen and should have extensive knowledge of Starkiller's potential/strengths/weaknesses/abilities. Growth by growth, Malgus, too, received one. A huge one.

Manipulating a ship at 1G is irrelevant in comparison Malgus and Dooku's ship feats.

SWTOR, in the grand scheme of things, is sh1t, yeah.

Tyranus, lmao.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Quote? Anyway, when it's about Anakin's rage you always say that it amps him, but that isn't the caye for Malgus it seems mmm

Wow, he pushed them, while they were off-guard. Impressive.

That is the case for Malgus. The difference between them is that Malgus as of FE has undergone substantial power growth and Anakin's potential is pretty much limitless so his moments of rage or concentration are harder to quantify as we can't know how much better he's performing then he would on average.

There's absolutely no reason to assume they were off guard when they entered his throne room, saw him and had a minute of dialogue prior.

Originally posted by Tondemonai
It's pretty easy to surmise they weren't caught off-guard. They had just fought their way through the entire station, and were now talking with the False Emperor himself inside his throne room. It would be foolish not to assume they were ready to fight him at any time. He simply broke through their defenses

In all honesty, this. Like, I really don't get how you can claim they were unprepared.

The fact they hadn't drawn their weapons would be the biggest clue.

Because they were having a dialogue... Don't see how Malgus getting up from his throne, walking towards the edge of the steps, telegraphing his moves all the while and then taking a large leap towards them before finally landing in front of them in a process that took about 12 seconds would catch them off guard in regards to his intentions.

Well it evidently did, given they still failed to draw their weapons, and even staggered away in shock when he landed.

Guess he blitzed them then.

But in all seriousness they had come there for his surrender and Malgus had just activated a weapon that only he could shut off. They probably would have preferred to take him alive. That doesn't mean they wouldn't defend themselves.

Uh-huh, if they were defending themselves they have a funny way of showing it:

http://i.imgur.com/qPmZicQ.png

mmm

Malgus looks like he's in the middle of the chicken dance.

Tbh Wolf has a point. They were probably so surprised by his chicken dance shenanigans they didn't throw up a shield.

But I imagine this is something you're not going to change your stance on Beni?

Not when you have shit like this:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111222381/4770339-2290553470-KBOj4.gif

And this happening:

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11124/111240586/5449187-ezrakananforcepushvader.gif

mmm

I mean, Ahsoka did the same to Vader and she's obviously not his equal so I don't see what's wrong the with the first one.

The second I personally think is just a demonstration of the raw power Kanan and Ezra possess but for people who can't accept that without shattering their world view you could just pretend Vader was caught off guard.

Really don't see the problem.

The problem is I forgot ur an idiot. mmm

Is that really the rebuttal you're going with? I mean, I know we're half joking here but do you actually have a reason for your stance?

I presented my reasoning on the previous page.

... You were serious with that?

The animation had them standing still so they were surprised?

Uh, yeah.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
... You were serious with that?

The animation had them standing still so they were surprised? You mean doing nothing to defend themselves yeah, you realise how this shit works?

That and failing to draw their weapons and staggering away from him in surprise.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Uh, yeah.

K.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
you realise how this shit works?

Lmfao.

You seem broken Syn, I can offer mental support?

No I just find it funny that you're stance is based on the animation of the strike team not drawing their weapons when they never do prior to a flashpoint engagement and then you attempt to act as if I'm the one being unreasonable.

I find it amusing is all.

Wow, that wasn't the point at all.

Generally hard to see something that's not there.

Hilarious, but no, the point is that this (for example) is what it looks like to anticipate and defend against a Force attack:

https://i.imgflip.com/1f1p9s.gif

Not this:

http://i.imgur.com/qPmZicQ.png

That is what it looks like to do nothing.

Likewise, if I were to raise a fist to strike you, and you saw the attack coming, you would instinctively raise your hands to defend yourself, not stand stock still and attempt to thwart my punch with the power of your mind, lmao.

Or in other words the total lack of a reaction in the above example (apart from the protag in the middle staggering off panel) indicates they were yes, caught off-guard. When you consider this alongside them indeed failing to draw their weapons and flinching away in surprise and it's blindingly obvious that that was the case to all but the most dense of observers.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/11117/111178634/4788399-luke+force+barrier.jpg

Right. :/

We have several examples of Force users raising barriers without moving. Sidious, Vader, Starkiller and DE Luke are just a few examples of this.

If the person in question was one you were trying to capture alive to prevent the destruction of a fleet and I was able to use the Force then I might attempt to hold off on drawing a weapon till I had no other option. Doesn't mean I wouldn't defend myself from a Force attack.

Regardless you didn't address the point of a strike team NEVER drawing their weapons prior to the opening of a flashpoint whether it's the logical decision to do so or not. This is because it's a game mechanic.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/11117/111178634/4788399-luke+force+barrier.jpg

Right. :/

Do you want to play spot the difference? Or shall I?

You have one example of DE Luke (potentially) erecting a visible barrier with weapon drawn and in a ready stance. I await a more relevant precedent.

Flimsy conjecture notwithstanding its irrelevant given the scene is unchanged whether or not you choose aggressive dialogue options towards Malgus or not.

There is really no point trying to psychologise RPG characters when their character is determined by the player.

As far as I'm aware the boss NEVAAR attacks the player in cutscene as well.

I have plenty of other scans and passages for people standing still or multitasking and shielding themselves so even if you interpret that scan as Luke blocking it with his saber we can do this however you want.

Here you go: "Deadly currents crackled and sparkled around him, kept barely at bay by the judicious application of a Force shield." - The Force Uneashed II.

This is as Starkiller's fighting the aberrant clones and dodging their telekinesis as stated prior in the passage.

Here he is applying a Force shield while hanging on to the outer rungs of a ship and maintaining the course of the Salvation as it reenters Kamino's atmosphere.

"This was where it got difficult. He needed to maintain the Force shield against the sort of heat he might find in the outer layers of a star. He also had to keep in mind the target ahead-a target he couldn't see through the plasma, but had to hit square-on or else the planetary shield generators wouldn't fail. No matter what happened, he had to fly straight. Starkiller took a deep breath. The cool trapped air behind the shield would last long enough, he hoped. He had been too worried about frying to consider suffocating to death. He raised his hands and spread his fingers wide. His eyes closed tightly against the fiery brightness of the plasma. With each bucking and shaking of the ship beneath him, he encouraged himself to ride with it instead of fighting it. He was part of the ship, not a passenger. He was the ship, not a reckless pilot guiding it to destruction. In the same way that he could feel his fingers and roes, his mind seeped outward into the metal and plastoid of the frigate, until every joint and weld, every porthole and deck became part of his sense of being. There was no line anymore between Starkiller and the Salvation. They were one and the same being, from the perspective of the Force. He raised his right arm, and the ship followed the movement, listing slowly and heavily to starboard. Some of the headlong shuddering faded, as though it were grateful to have someone at the helm again. Even the wind's shrieking seemed to ebb." - The Force Unleashed II.

Then there's both Vader and Sidious who were at the center of Galen's explosion and Vader both in canon and Legends surviving multiple enormous and powerful explosions.

Then there's Nox: https://youtu.be/-92PJMyYOYg?t=160

Regardless of all of that there are dozens upon dozens of examples of Force users enacting powerful uses of the Force while standing stock still. Why would erecting a Force barrier be any different?

Funny because that seems to be exactly what you're doing when you're attempting to label meaninful intent to the strike team standing still when that's the case for every single fight during a cut scene where they're being attacked or not.

HK-47 did in the fight right before so you'd be wrong. He shot at them but like always they didn't draw their weapons till the cut scene was over.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Here you go: "Deadly currents crackled and sparkled around him, kept barely at bay by the judicious application of a Force shield." - The Force Uneashed II.

This is as Starkiller's fighting the aberrant clones and dodging their telekinesis as stated prior in the passage.

Here he is applying a Force shield while hanging on to the outer rungs of a ship and maintaining the course of the Salvation as it reenters Kamino's atmosphere.

"This was where it got difficult. He needed to maintain the Force shield against the sort of heat he might find in the outer layers of a star. He also had to keep in mind the target ahead-a target he couldn't see through the plasma, but had to hit square-on or else the planetary shield generators wouldn't fail. No matter what happened, he had to fly straight. Starkiller took a deep breath. The cool trapped air behind the shield would last long enough, he hoped. He had been too worried about frying to consider suffocating to death. He raised his hands and spread his fingers wide. His eyes closed tightly against the fiery brightness of the plasma. With each bucking and shaking of the ship beneath him, he encouraged himself to ride with it instead of fighting it. He was part of the ship, not a passenger. He was the ship, not a reckless pilot guiding it to destruction. In the same way that he could feel his fingers and roes, his mind seeped outward into the metal and plastoid of the frigate, until every joint and weld, every porthole and deck became part of his sense of being. There was no line anymore between Starkiller and the Salvation. They were one and the same being, from the perspective of the Force. He raised his right arm, and the ship followed the movement, listing slowly and heavily to starboard. Some of the headlong shuddering faded, as though it were grateful to have someone at the helm again. Even the wind's shrieking seemed to ebb." - The Force Unleashed II.Naturally without visuals these are useless.

The ability to survive an explosion does not mean you weren't caught off-guard by it.

The energy is striking him lol.

There are, but I think you are confusing that with the ability to withstand an explosion without raising a defence, as Force users are able to maintain an element of passive barriers, this is common knowledge, but besides the point.

Who knows what this is a response to. But actually they flinch away, I've said this several times now. Pls stop ignoring the key points.

And the protag being fired at dodges, more evidence of reactions when being attacked in cutscenes me thinks. mmm

It gives you a detailed description for the second and you can literally verify the first one for yourself.

Yes! And it's not doing jack diddly squat. Why do you think that is?

Vader's armor has been damaged by vibroblades and electrical discharges. He's not surviving explosion with a multiple kolometer radius without using an active barrier.

It doesn't matter! It only furthers my point. If they're able to dodge or stumble back there's no reason they couldn't have erected a Force barrier. My point is that them not drawing their weapons during a cutscene is not evidence that they couldn't erect barriers because they've literally never done so in any cutscene whether they're being attacked or not.

OK gonna respond with some simple points:

1. When a barrier is raised, and visual medium, it tends to be signposted be it through a visual barrier or a gesture, in the absence of that, its safe to assume only passive defenses are active. This is true of SWTOR as well.

2. Nobody reacts to an attack without some kind of movement, unless they are a) completely unfazed by it b) don't see it coming. This is human nature. SWTOR doesn't ignore this shit out of laziness or other brands of incompetence.

3. Protags may not arm themselves in SWTOR boss cutscenes, but rarely if ever has the envelop been pushed so hard to have the boss right up in their face, attacking them, during such a scene. It demands the player suspend disbelief to assume they wouldn't arm themselves in this situation if fully prepared, so we are likely not intended to.

4. If you have time to flinch you don't have time to block lol, flinching is an instinctive reaction to the unexpected, not a thought out act, and in fact indicates you are not-prepared.

P.S. The durability of Vader's armour has no bearing on what he can himself endure. And the examples you raised aren't Force-related.

Also learn how to use the quote function already, you're not 12.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Also learn how to use the quote function already, you're not 12.
Best post 2016.
Edit: Also, I could use the quote function on other forums waaayyy before I was 12, tbh.

Seriously, we've seen Nox pull up Barriers in cutscenes and gameplay... We've seen Barsen'Thor do the same. Assuming their Shields are invisible is retarded.

It seems pretty clear they simply were not expecting a Force Push tbh. They were in the middle of a dialogue, after all. SWTOR has always made it clear when a character is putting up shields and/or prepared to fight. Malgus took them off guard.

That's not possible. He literally takes 12 seconds to get up take a running start and then jump down.

Beni your post will be addressed when I can regain access to my comp.

That's the equivalent of PIS in a videogame.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
OK gonna respond with some simple points:

1. When a barrier is raised, and visual medium, it tends to be signposted be it through a visual barrier or a gesture, in the absence of that, its safe to assume only passive defenses are active. This is true of SWTOR as well.

2. Nobody reacts to an attack without some kind of movement, unless they are a) completely unfazed by it b) don't see it coming. This is human nature. SWTOR doesn't ignore this shit out of laziness or other brands of incompetence.

3. Protags may not arm themselves in SWTOR boss cutscenes, but rarely if ever has the envelop been pushed so hard to have the boss right up in their face, attacking them, during such a scene. It demands the player suspend disbelief to assume they wouldn't arm themselves in this situation if fully prepared, so we are likely not intended to.

4. If you have time to flinch you don't have time to block lol, flinching is an instinctive reaction to the unexpected, not a thought out act, and in fact indicates you are not-prepared.

P.S. The durability of Vader's armour has no bearing on what he can himself endure. And the examples you raised aren't Force-related.

1. Go ahead.

2. And that's fine I already agreed with you that the characters move during these cut scenes when necessary ASIDE from drawing their weapons because that's a game mechanic that would have to be repeated upon entering real time engagement which would look bad. They're not able to just start out with weaponry in hand after a cut scene. It's a technical limitation not a plot one.

3. They had failed to arm themselves however when a boss attacks or begins attacking at the end of a cut scene. No it demands they acknowledge that SWTOR is not going to spend money on changing the mechanics so that a character can start with their weapon draw after a cutscene. It's a waste of time and money on their part to do so.

4. Force users have precognition and are capable of percieving things on a far faster level then non force users. If they see a 2 meter tall giant leaping towards them and are trained and disciplined Jedi they're going to prepare to defend themselves but as established above that's not going to be done so instead thee animate them moving back so it doesn't look completely unrealistic. And the character that flinched back was indeed one of the Force users as you can see from their positioning in the video.

"P.S. The durability of Vader's armour has no bearing on what he can himself endure. And the examples you raised aren't Force-related.

You understand that by establish the punishment Vader's armor is capable of taking at the points they were damaged and then mentioning things he survived that are beyond the armor's durability automatically means Vader is going to need to employ some form of Force defense. Vader can take inhuman amounts of punishment, but he's just a human. His skin and bones and organs aren't any more durable then the armor he has on. He can't physically survive the explosions he did without shielding himself in some manner. Whether that's passive shielding as you seem to be suggesting or active ones as I am is up for debate but Vader not doing so at all is not.

Originally posted by Petrus
That's the equivalent of PIS in a videogame.

Or we could assume the strike teams aren't complete retards and acknowledge technical limitations.

We could, but we could also assume Palpatine was not a complete retard in that he actually attempted to teleport whilst falling down the shaft, instead of continuing to shoot useless lightning towards a Vader increasingly out of reach, yet we know the outcome of that one.

That's one's canonically confirmed retardation.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
1. Go ahead.No darling, that is not number one, this is number one:Originally posted by Beniboybling
1. When a barrier is raised, and visual medium, it tends to be signposted be it through a visual barrier or a gesture, in the absence of that, its safe to assume only passive defenses are active. This is true of SWTOR as well.Maybe try that again.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
2. And that's fine I already agreed with you that the characters move during these cut scenes when necessary ASIDE from drawing their weapons because that's a game mechanic that would have to be repeated upon entering real time engagement which would look bad. They're not able to just start out with weaponry in hand after a cut scene. It's a technical limitation not a plot one.OK. So you admit they didn't see the attack coming then.

Right...

Did you type that out with a straight face? I mean... lol.

Anyway the point is dear that they pushed the envelop unnecessarily, if they hadn't wanted to give the impression the strike team was unprepared, they wouldn't have had Malgus attack them in the cutscene. Simple.

Irrelevant. This is entirely relative to the superhuman speeds at which Malgus' travels and the fact that they flinched means they were surprised, the fact that some did not move at all means they did not see the attack coming, how many times must this be repeated before you grasp it?

What is this? Your attempt at quoting? So you're telling me you can wrap text in bold tags but not quote tags? Are you actually mentally inhibited? Because I'm wondering if its worth continuing this discussion. mmm

Anyway I never suggested that Vader was completely defenseless lol, only that their is no evidence he erected a Force barrier.

"in the absence of that, its safe to assume only passive defenses are active. This is true of SWTOR as well."

Why? There's nothing necessitating that they visually indicate what they're doing. I prefer to assume that they're not acting stupidly.

"OK. So you admit they didn't see the attack coming then. smile"

Maybe try that again.

"Right..."

Don't know what the "..." is there for. It's true for every cut scene prior to a boss fight that I've found.

"Did you type that out with a straight face? I mean... lol.

Anyway the point is dear that they pushed the envelop unnecessarily, if they hadn't wanted to give the impression the strike team was unprepared, they wouldn't have had Malgus attack them in the cutscene. Simple."

I did, yes.

Or they assume the audience would be smart enough to be aware that the strike team isn't going to be caught off guard by a move that takes Malgus 12 seconds to carry out.

"Irrelevant. This is entirely relative to the superhuman speeds at which Malgus' travels and the fact that they flinched means they were surprised, the fact that some did not move at all means they did not see the attack coming, how many times must this be repeated before you grasp it?"

You're saying that they slowed the footage down and Malgus was really moving much faster?

"What is this? Your attempt at quoting? So you're telling me you can wrap text in bold tags but not quote tags? Are you actually mentally inhibited? Because I'm wondering if its worth continuing this discussion.

Anyway I never suggested that Vader was completely defenseless lol, only that their is no evidence he erected a Force barrier."

That's a call you're going to have to make. And I'm saying there's nothing to suggest his passive Force barrier has the kind of power necessary to protect Vader from those explosions. Especially canon Vader.