Update on Vader vs. Revan and other one vs. one's

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The Ellimist
Heya,

So hopefully after the next few days I'll have completed some of my more pressing real life obligations and will be able to finish the Vader vs. Revan fights.

As my time is now a little more limited, I think it would be a little more efficient for me to focus on doing more meaningful threads and debates rather than just casual posting - although I'll still do that for the social aspect. So while I wrap that up with Ant, I'd be happy to get any ideas for other one vs. one's. This is probably actually more time efficient (.i.e. to do a large reply a day rather than tons of random posts). Some ideas:

Plagueis vs. Valkorion
Sidious vs. Valkorion
Luke vs. Sidious
Dooku vs. Arcann
Caedus vs. Vader
Whether TFA was a good movie
Meta-debates about evidentiary standards, etc.
Non Star Wars related discussions (I guess we'd do that on General Discussion), like politics, philosophy, etc.

Let me know! PM'ing would probably work best but however.

quanchi112
Remember this month you promised to see through the Trek/Wars debate.

DarthAnt66
To clarify, there won't be any more CaV's with Ellimist after this. His career will be over.

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Heya,

So hopefully after the next few days I'll have completed some of my more pressing real life obligations and will be able to finish the Vader vs. Revan fights.

As my time is now a little more limited, I think it would be a little more efficient for me to focus on doing more meaningful threads and debates rather than just casual posting - although I'll still do that for the social aspect. So while I wrap that up with Ant, I'd be happy to get any ideas for other one vs. one's. This is probably actually more time efficient (.i.e. to do a large reply a day rather than tons of random posts). Some ideas:

Plagueis vs. Valkorion
Sidious vs. Valkorion
Luke vs. Sidious
Dooku vs. Arcann
Caedus vs. Vader
Whether TFA was a good movie
Meta-debates about evidentiary standards, etc.
Non Star Wars related discussions (I guess we'd do that on General Discussion), like politics, philosophy, etc.

Let me know! PM'ing would probably work best but however.

You want to do a non Star Wars debate?

TenebrousWay
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
You want to do a non Star Wars debate?

18,000 Vegeta vs Sidious?

UCanShootMyNova
thumb up

TenebrousWay
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
thumb up

18,000 Vegeta = Saiyan Saga Vegeta, just to clarify. smile

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I know. smile

Vegeta stomps instantly. smile

You keep up with DB?

TenebrousWay
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I know. smile

Vegeta stomps instantly. smile

You keep up with DB?

Yeah.

Tondemonai
Sheev vs a Saibaman is more fair

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by TenebrousWay
Yeah.

Thoughts on Beerus, Whis, Zeno, etc? smile

TenebrousWay
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Thoughts on Beerus, Whis, Zeno, etc? smile

Beerus is a universe buster and Zeno is a dimension buster, lmao.

I'd say peak Luke is probably around 12,000k - 15,000k equivalent, perhaps slightly lower.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Universe and dimension are the same thing.

Multi-universe buster is the better term tbh. smile

You joking? Roshi at like 180 blew up the moon, rofl.

Do you know anything about comics? Perhaps DB vs Comics? smile

ChaosTheory123
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Universe and dimension are the same thing.


Depends

Dimension is a broad, vague, term that can be used to describe shit as tiny as the pocket dimensions witches create in Madoka Magica (IIRC, they're typically the size of buildings) or the ludicrous scale that exists in Tenchi Muyo

Never assume dimension is equivalent to universe without context backing it basically *shrugs*

TenebrousWay
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Universe and dimension are the same thing.

Multi-universe buster is the better term tbh. smile

You joking? Roshi at like 180 blew up the moon, rofl.

Do you know anything about comics? Perhaps DB vs Comics? smile

I scaled Luke off from Nappa destroying that city just arriving at Earth. Roshi moon buster at 180 looks like PIS.

I have a vague knowledge of comics from when I was young, but now I just follow DB and SW mainly.

ChaosTheory123
Originally posted by TenebrousWay
I scaled Luke off from Nappa destroying that city just arriving at Earth. Roshi moon buster at 180 looks like PIS.

Piccolo replicates it with a Power level of 320ish the night after fighting Raditz

Just short of the first time Vegeta goes ballistic and says he'll waste the planet

Wouldn't appeal to Vegeta's word from that alone, but the KE to disperse the moon in the short frame of time Piccolo accomplished his feat corroborates being able to destroy the Earth, or damn near enough give or take a couple dozen zettatons *shrugs*

You can go back and forth on ignoring the high ends, but at the end of the day, context in series by Z supports wasting planets over shit as pithy as wasting a city

Something Roshi's been able to do since he ****ed up Mount Frying Pan

Corroborated by that Red Ribbon ****er's (IIRC, it was Black piloting the thing) missile wasting another mountain top

And something Piccolo Daimao's replicated in his final fight with Kid Goku (wasting a city)

Then you have Piccolo razing that Island/near Continent sized land mas (you can argue for near continent going off the official world map from the Daizenshuu *shrugs*)

Right

Daizenshuu also mentions Goku's Kamehameha has the power to waste the moon around the 23rd IIRC

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
thumb up

The idea of Luke being able to oneshot stomp Nappa, (which having such a power level would allow him to do,) seems...a little crazy. smile

ChaosTheory123
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
thumb up

The idea of Luke being able to oneshot stomp Nappa, (which having such a power level would allow him to do,) seems...a little crazy. smile

DB has **** all telepathy resistance

Like, absolutely none

Vegeta's showing towards the end of Z required more power than Cell to accomplish (and even then, it wasn't direct mind ****, more like mental coercion. Not outright raping their minds, just slightly nudging thoughts... and they needed to have evil in their hearts IIRC), and Babidi's mind **** is kind of awful in the greater scope of most fictions

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
DB characters move faster than Luke can think. smile

TenebrousWay
Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Piccolo replicates it with a Power level of 320ish the night after fighting Raditz

Just short of the first time Vegeta goes ballistic and says he'll waste the planet

Wouldn't appeal to Vegeta's word from that alone, but the KE to disperse the moon in the short frame of time Piccolo accomplished his feat corroborates being able to destroy the Earth, or damn near enough give or take a couple dozen zettatons *shrugs*

You can go back and forth on ignoring the high ends, but at the end of the day, context in series by Z supports wasting planets over shit as pithy as wasting a city

Something Roshi's been able to do since he ****ed up Mount Frying Pan

Corroborated by that Red Ribbon ****er's (IIRC, it was Black piloting the thing) missile wasting another mountain top

And something Piccolo Daimao's replicated in his final fight with Kid Goku (wasting a city)

Then you have Piccolo razing that Island/near Continent sized land mas (you can argue for near continent going off the official world map from the Daizenshuu *shrugs*)

Right

Daizenshuu also mentions Goku's Kamehameha has the power to waste the moon around the 23rd IIRC

I agree with you, tbh. I just had been swayed by an old discussion on neoseeker about the planet buster threshold. Consensus was that 18,000 Vegeta probably couldn't do that (filler doesn't count).

ChaosTheory123
Originally posted by TenebrousWay
I agree with you, tbh. I just had been swayed by an old discussion on neoseeker about the planet buster threshold. Consensus was that 18,000 Vegeta probably couldn't do that (filler doesn't count).

DB's a hot bed of awful for actual agreement on the topic of anything *shrugs*

Apparently the OBD is infamous enough for our discussion of the shit that the clowns on Death Battles saw fit to reference us for example :lmao

Filler does count, but only in the anime. It never happened in the manga, hence being filler in the first place.

They're two separate continuity though *shrugs*

TenebrousWay
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
DB characters move faster than Luke can think. smile

My Luke scale was rather arbitrary, though. The main point is that, with certainty, above 15,000 and up, SW MVPs are helpless fooder.

It's also probably it could be true to 1000+ as well.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
And Beerus is probably somewhere in the septillions. smile

TenebrousWay
I have my own fanon power level list till end of Z. smile

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
PM me it. smile

ChaosTheory123
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
DB characters move faster than Luke can think. smile

Depends on the arc *shrugs*

Even to the end of part 1, barring Goku outrunning solar flare vs Tien?

Well, or treating Roshi's beam speed as legit I guess

Their best feats don't breech past double digits hypersonic

You can take up arguing the Roshi/Solar Flare thing though

Endless Mike would probably cuff you though *shrugs*

Even when I was younger, that was far too much of a headache to even try pretending to argue in favor of

Now I'm too lazy and apathetic to bother or care

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Preeeetty sure Super has multiple Massively FTL feats, and weaklings like Krillin and Roshi were having mental conversations with themselves and performing multiple complex attacks on each other...all in the span of a single second.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H5l4kaO9B0E

TenebrousWay
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
PM me it. smile

Once I find it, I'll PM it to you. Note I'm a minimalist. 20/30% difference is a total stomp and 50% is tanking capacity. Certain circunstances and hero PIS may change that.

ChaosTheory123
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Preeeetty sure Super has multiple Massively FTL feats,

That's Super and post Buu

The number of characters that benefit are slim

Again though, I was talking by arc



You're talking the 21st Budokai feat right?

Barely transonic IIRC

Basically, its a bit feat and you're better off paying attention to Tao PaiPai catching up to that pillar he threw a good 2,300 km at a 20 degree or so angle

That's mach 20ish IIRC

The Merchant
There's also how in the Buu saga Vegeta implied any random Saiyan can replicate Buus feat of destroying hundreds of planets in a few years. Luke would be able to clear Part 1 via hax and speed but in raw power he should be below 23rd Budokai characters going by Goku being able to destroy the Moon with a KHH, you could even argue Roshi but eh I'd rather not argue that atm.

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