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* SOR Revan
* Novel Vitiate
* DP Plagueis
* DP Tenebrous

1. Force only
2. All-Out

Either solo.

You mean of Team RoT, or?

Team two.

Tenebrous is a weak link.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Tenebrous is a weak link. Hue hue hue.

IMO Revan and Vitiate are weak links.
Oh wait

Revan is the weak link. MVPnebrous cannot be touched by those scrubs.

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
MVPnebrous cannot be touched by those scrubs.
Tenebrous be like...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GoCOg8ZzUfg

Originally posted by Ursumeles
You mean of Team RoT, or?

Who do you think?

My boy Tenny is da real gangsta.

Team 2. Plagueis is about equal with Vitiate, but Revan handles Tennebrous.

RoT team. Not a bad fight.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Tenebrous be like...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GoCOg8ZzUfg

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Team two.

Tenebrous is a weak link.

Vitiate and Plagueis are roughly equal, but Revan trumps Tenebrous.

Plagueis > Novel Vitiate
Tenebrous > Revan

Tenebrous isn't better than Revan.

Tenebrous run fast and blocked a explosion.

I think we both know Revan can't compete with that. https://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-colbert.gif

Even if he isn't(I disagree with that), Plagueis beats Vitiate faster than Revan would beat Tenebrous

Why? The only basis for Plaguies > Vitiate is the quote.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Tenebrous run fast and blocked a explosion.

I think we both know Revan can't compete with that. https://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-colbert.gif
You have Bane extremely high, and Tenebrous >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bane

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Why? The only basis for Plaguies > Vitiate is the quote.
The quote is Legends canon, tho. LMFAO
Also, Plagueis being vastly superior to Bane, and being equal to TPM Sidious.

Right, but the quote just means Plagueis >= Vitiate.

No basis he beats Vitiate fast (or faster than Revan's one-shot of Tene).

Originally posted by Ursumeles
You have Bane extremely high, and Tenebrous >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bane

Can you make an argument for how, specifically, Tenebrous defeats Revan? Because I'm not really seeing anything that gives him a shot in terms of his abilities and feats.

Also, the fact Plaguies is more powerful than Vitiate doesn't mean that Vitiate's mastery and experience with dark side lore can't overcome a ever so slightly more powerful opponent.

but bane is stated to be more powerful than vitiate in a source and plaguies >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bane tho

sources are more important than facts dumbass

tru fug

vitiate can't handle tene's rock lifting

eating planets not good enugh

I warned you about the ground realities, man.

I told you, dog.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Can you make an argument for how, specifically, Tenebrous defeats Revan? Because I'm not really seeing anything that gives him a shot in terms of his abilities and feats.
He is faster, an more powerful combatant and probably more powerful in the Force. His Barrier should be able to defend himself against all what Revan throws at him.

@Ant Plgueis is more powerful by a fair marigin. He is more powerful than SWTOR Vitiate, who should be above Novel! Vitiate by a quite a bit. Also, Plagueis edge in CQC is better than a possible edge of Vitiate in Dark Side Mastery. Experience don't gives Vitiate an edge at all, lol.

Neph, let me take this one when I get home. ^

It's juicy.

Originally posted by Nephthys
sources are more important than facts dumbass
Lol wut.
Plagueis being stated to be above Vitiate is a fact.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Neph, let me take this one when I get home. ^

It's juicy.
I don't want to debte Tene vs Revan, lol. It is so hard to argue for this f8.

Too l8.

You are in the shit now.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
I don't want to debte Tene vs Revan, lol. It is so hard to argue for this f8.

BUT BUT REVAN RAGDOLLED DARTH MARR AND SATELE SHAN!!!1111!

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
BUT BUT REVAN RAGDOLLED DARTH MARR AND SATELE SHAN!!!1111!
And Vitiate pwned him (on a DS NExus, that 4,000 years later influenced even ****in Luke)! VITIATE >>>> SIDIOUS
Do you want to debate for 'Brous the untouchable?

Honestly Tene's barrier feat is probably lesser than what Taris!Barsen'thor can do. Let alone the likes of Revan, or even Jadus. Not sure why it's hyped so much.

Because it is from a author that doesn't give characters OP feats like TOR does with everyone?
What has 'Thor done that's better?

Originally posted by Ursumeles
He is faster,
Why? Because he ran slightly faster than a vastly pre-prime Darth Plagueis?

What feats from such incarnation of Darth Plagueis suggests that he's faster than Revan, who's battling seven individuals, with grenades, blaster fire, rockets, Force lightning, telekinetic shoves, and lightsaber attacks being thrown at any angle? And even if we throw all logic or feats out the window, Revan has teleportation and battle precognition, so his reflexes will register fast enough to counter a being of slightly superior speed, and if pressed, can teleport away. This advantage, which I practically bring up in every Revan discussion, is primarily only relevant against opponents who may actually be faster than Revan. In the case of Darth Tenebrous, he's not, so this just further solidifies Revan's already-vast superiority.



Because... reasons?

A feat or hype comparison marks Revan has the superior.



Same as the above.



What? Take Cade Skywalker for example. He demonstrated a comparable yet superior barrier feat than Darth Tenebrous.

Would you wager Cade Skywalker can thus defend against Revan's telekinesis, Force drain, Force lightning, telepathy, etc?

No.

Fact of the matter is, Revan ragdolling the coalition strike team is beyond the defensive capabilities of Darth Tenebrous.

There's also no reason to believe that Darth Tenebrous can defend himself against Revan's telepathy or his other esoteric powers.

---



"A possible edge of Vitiate in Dark Side Mastery"?

I feel people fail to grasp that Vitiate literally sat in a room for over one-thousand years honing and mastering his dark side abilities after consuming the power of eight-thousand of the galaxy's "most powerful" Sith Lords. Thus, Vitiate would be capable of wielding his power to the absolute maximum efficiency. Take Kyp Durron for example: almost unparalleled power, but lacks the mastery to use it effectively in combat. But Vitiate? That's his specialty.

And to address the other points, Revan's edge in CQC was irrelevant in battle against Vitiate - I fail to see how Darth Plagueis, who is inferior dueling accomplishments and acclaim than Revan, would then do better. Also, the gap between Vitiate in Revan to SWTOR is unquantifiable to the extent that I'm not even sure he grew more powerful - just diverted his resources and became more masterful in the art of Essence Transfer and telepathy. So, your blind speculation that since Plagueis is ever so slightly greater than Vitiate, that he must be capable of besting novel Vitiate faster than Revan can *dominate* Tenebrous is absurd.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Because it is from a author that doesn't give characters OP feats like TOR does with everyone?
What has 'Thor done that's better? Casually smashed through a giant blast door like it's made of paper, while weakened? A blast door designed to contain explosions just like the one Tenebrous blocked? And is like the size of a house and a meter thick?

But even if you somehow think that's less impressive than blocking the tailend of an explosion after running away from it for a while, 'Thor also smashed through a Rakatan vault door deemed impenetrable. In the same game that casually has mountain-busting bombs.

And then there's Jadus' feat of protecting the Dominator from being incinerated. And Revan tanking the backlash of an attack that would decimate a kilometer wide area. And y'know, Vitiate wiping out planets.

Needless to say, Tenebrous is kind of out of his depth.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
And Vitiate pwned him (on a DS NExus, that 4,000 years later influenced even ****in Luke)! VITIATE >>>> SIDIOUS
Do you want to debate for 'Brous the untouchable?

I may. I'm just formating my HD and backing up relevant junk.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Casually smashed through a giant blast door like it's made of paper, while weakened? A blast door designed to contained explosions just like the one Tenebrous blocked? And is like the size of a house and a meter thick?

But even if you somehow think that's less impressive than blocking the tailend of an explosion after running away from it for a while, 'Thor also smashed through a Rakatan vault door deemed impenetrable. In the same game that casually has mountain-busting bombs.

Yeah, but how can he use that in a battle?
So, that Revan, on a Darkside Nexus that even influenced Luke Skywalker thousands of years later, didn't could beat Vitate is a proof that Plagueis couldn't do the same? Lolwut? Against Revan Vitiate had a power advantadge- against Plagueis it is the other way around.
Also, I fail to see how Revan is the better duelist. Obviously Plagueis lacks in feats, but Plagueis has superior speed, strenght, etc. Then he outdueled Venamis, someone powerful in the Force to not get overwhelmed by Plaggy, who was trained in Plagueis' style should make him superior to Revan.
He also should share at least somewhat of a parity to TPM Sidious, who stomped Maul.

I don't think that Vitiate didn't grew in 300 years. That's absurd, tbh. Also, why should he suddenly be more powerful as Valkorion, then?

You said oneshot Tenebrous pre-Edit, or?
And no, it's not absurd. What is absurd is the lowballing of Tenebrous. The Barrier feat is really impressive(and tbh, more impressive than 'Thors feat), but even if you think that Cade and co. have better feats, that doesn't mean that he is weak. He is 30 generations superior to Bane, nd should logically be closer to RotS Sidious, or at least Plagueis, thn to him, because it doesn't makes sense that the growth of one-generation > the growth of 29 generations.
So, 'Brous being one-shotted by the likes of Revan or Novel Vitate is IMO absurd.
(The last part wasn't specifically at you Ant, btw).

It's not that hard to understand. I explained it with my comparison to Kyp Durron.

But, since you seem to love quotes so much:

"Yoda's knowledge of the Force makes him just as powerful as Darth Sidious."

Thus, Vitiate's greater mastery will allow his combat-applicable abilities to rival that of Darth Plagueis.

At the very least, it will allow him to contend with Plagueis longer than Revan can defeat Tenebrous, which is what you're disputing.



Again, these points I'm making aren't that difficult to grasp. For one, let's remember that Revan and Vitiate are almost equals - same goes for Plagueis and Vitiate, as established below. Despite that, Revan's CQC advantage failed to play any role in the confrontation. Vitiate proved capable of charging up his telekinesis as Revan rushed him, and then unleashed it when Revan went to strike. The same can be done with Darth Plagueis with the same result.



This is where the irony kicks in. You were laughing at my comparison, but then state that Plagueis dueling Venamis is impressive because Venamis wasn't dominated in the Force by Darth Plagueis? The rest of your point isn't even coherent, so I have no clue what you're trying to get out there.



What encounter are you referring to? The one where Darth Maul was injured and exhausted after days of battle and yet sources state that he still came close to killing Palpatine? I imagine that's not what you want to be citing here.


Valkorion became more powerful because he drained an entire world. In regards to novel Vitiate to SWTOR Vitiate, the only distinction is a negligible and ambiguous amount of draining of Revan. There's no indication, however, that Vitiate is still growing naturally in power following the Nathema ritual, which seems to be what you're suggesting. By all accounts, the Nathema ritual should have fully maxed out his potential. So the distinction isn't relevant enough to change the outcome of this fight.


It's amusing you're changing the discussion.

For one, you made the claim that Plagueis could beat Vitiate faster than Revan could beat Tenebrous.

That is the claim from which this discussion is based.

Given how you haven't mentioned it again, I imagine you now look at things differently, which is good.

Since you love those alleged power quotes, though, let's take a look at Revan's:

- Revan is "more powerful" than any Jedi before him, which includes Ulic-Qel Droma, has ever "dreamed" of

- Revan is "more powerful" than what Darth Nox and the Emperor's Wrath have "imagined" possible

- Revan is "far more powerful" than Darth Nihilus, a planet-nomming, fleet-lifting dark side entity

So really, I doubt you really want to bring up the power-growth of generations, since Revan has that beat.

And so then we're left with a comparison of feats, and we know how that ends...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11114/111140132/4255498-revan+tk.gif

I'll respond tomorrow.

Also, I am wondering how exactly was Revan CQC useless when he came centimeters away from slicing Vitiate in half, but then blasted backwards by Vitiate's charged TK, only to recover mid-air with no injury whatsoever? And in Scourge's vision, a team Revan, Meetra, and Scourge himself had roughly 50/50 chance against Vitiate. Keep in mind that this is an injured Revan who was one-shot by Vitiate with a single lightning bolt. So I wonder how could he beat Vitiate when he's so utterly outclassed in Force power, if not with CQC?

Lmfao. I'm fairly certain many individual's survived the world-razing without even using the Force (ex. many of the green balls, many of the Jedi, etc.).

And the second feat isn't a literal Force shield around it. It's an energy shield that's protecting the stronghold.

Originally posted by Azronger
So I wonder how could he beat Vitiate when he's so utterly outclassed in Force power
Uh, because he isn't?

Az's straw grasping is cute.

Tenebrous is outmatched here. His feats are rather shitty for his vaunted placement, and scaling from Bane isn't gonna get him much as Vitiate and Revan shits on Bane, too.

Its a nice bit feat

Then you remember the ****ers she murdered survived the same shit even closer to the epicenter than she was and realize her showing is par for the course in an age you ****ers tout as weak *shrugs*

When powerscaling fodder survives the fallout (in a much more impressive fashion too), is this really something you want to appeal to?

It is magnitudes better than anything Tenebrous has demonstrated though

But Tenebrous' feats suck and wholly rely on powerscaling for him to be any kind of meaningful combatant *shrugs*

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Its a nice bit feat

Then you remember the ****ers she murdered survived the same shit even closer to the epicenter than she was and realize her showing is par for the course in an age you ****ers tout as weak *shrugs*

When powerscaling fodder survives the fallout (in a much more impressive fashion too), is this really something you want to appeal to?
Zannah didn't encounter those two Jedi until long after the Force storm, so no, they didn't survive the same shit.

The Force storm happened (which is when Zannah shielded herself), Kaan broke off the Force storm, Bane ****ed the fleet over, Kaan came back to talk to Bane and decided to use the Thought Bomb, Kaan went with the other Sith into the caves, the Jedi found out what was happening and decided to send 300 Jedi down there with Hoth, the Thought Bomb got detonated, then Zannah tried to find peeps and the Jedi started hunting down bouncers who were driven mad by the thought bomb (which is when Zannah killed the Jedi).

A lot of shit happened between Zannah's encounter with the Storm and her encounter with the Jedi, so they didn't survive that shit.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Zannah didn't encounter those two Jedi until long after the Force storm, so no, they didn't survive the same shit.

She was walking towards the epicenter

Towards Bane

She encountered the Jedi traveling in the direction opposite to her sniping her ball friend's crazed species post holocaust

They were all an unknown distance from the epicenter, true, but they were no further from it than her at least, and likely closer based on context

@ Urs

Originally posted by Nephthys
Casually smashed through a giant blast door like it's made of paper, while weakened? A blast door designed to contain explosions just like the one Tenebrous blocked? And is like the size of a house and a meter thick?

But even if you somehow think that's less impressive than blocking the tailend of an explosion after running away from it for a while, 'Thor also smashed through a Rakatan vault door deemed impenetrable. In the same game that casually has mountain-busting bombs.

And then there's Jadus' feat of protecting the Dominator from being incinerated. And Revan tanking the backlash of an attack that would decimate a kilometer wide area. And y'know, Vitiate wiping out planets.

Needless to say, Tenebrous is kind of out of his depth.

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
She was walking towards the epicenter

Towards Bane

She encountered the Jedi traveling in the direction opposite to her sniping her ball friend's crazed species post holocaust

They were all an unknown distance from the epicenter, true, but they were no further from it than her at least, and likely closer based on context
I edited my post. That barrier feat was for the Force storm, not the thought bomb, and a lot of shit happened between Zannah's barrier feat and her encounter with the Jedi so you can't prove they shielded themselves from the storm, because a **** ton of Jedi and Sith forces moved around considerable distances between the two events.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I edited my post.

Sure

Kaan called off the storm

Still passed over a group of Jedi and Sith before that happened

And they were demonstrated to have survived without a barrier

He can call it off as much as he wants, fact of the matter is?

It already ravaged an area with Jedi and Sith occupying the space by the time he had, indicating the energy was already exerted on them

The point of my post isn't to call the feat unimpressive

Frankly, its better than most things demonstrated in the PT era sans Yarael Poof's feat and maybe Yoda destroying those Carrier Ships assuming they had shields up

Comes with the whole "this will raze the world" sort of shit

But absolute nothings lived through it, so why discuss powerscaling when just about anyone benefits?



I know

Also, not even sure how to gauge the Thought Bomb as the energy exerted was unconventionally exerted and they were an ambiguous distance from the epicenter (and don't think I haven't tried correcting the ambiguity for the Force Storm and Thought Bomb, Drew wouldn't give me a definitive answer *shrugs*)



We see both Jedi and Sith survived the Fallout in an area that has fallout

Barring being on the other side of the planet/thousands of kilometer away from Zannah?

You're splitting hairs at the order of energy they had to eat to live *shrugs*

Originally posted by Nephthys
A blast door designed to contain explosions just like the one Tenebrous blocked?This is interesting, source?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
For one, let's remember that Revan and Vitiate are almost equalsStill peddling that shit?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
This is interesting, source?

The quest log refers to it as a blast door. What a blast door is is self-explanatory.

Yeah I was looking for some information of the level of "blast" it can endure.

But I guess that was just conjecture, never mind then.

Oh Beni, never change.

It's massive and massively thick. The obvious conclusion is that it is at least equal to the task of blocking the tail-end of an explosion that has already traveled very far and lost much of its kinetic energy. Even assuming not for some absurd reason, 'Thor did it at the start of her career, while weakened, with a single hand, casually.

Do I need to spell out the immense difference between that and what Revan can put out?

Not to mention the rest of my post stands unchallenged.

No that's just conjecture. I mean really the sum of your argument is "its a massively massive door and therefore can tank massively massive explosions!"

Retarded yeah.

Regardless the explosion was potent enough to flood a mine the size of several catherdals in seconds, if that, which is probably more than the Barensthor could ever hope to output, and would have unlikely been diminished by much of a degree considering the speed at which it was travelling, and the minimal resistance it would have met.

More to the point it the kinetic buffet alone was enough to knock Plagueis on his ass, and Tenebrous capably warded it off while suspending massive slabs from the ceiling.

Bane in ROT ****ed up a much larger blast door, so if someone wants to scale Tenebrous off of that...

Originally posted by Beniboybling
and would have unlikely been diminished by much of a degree considering the speed at which it was travelling, and the minimal resistance it would have met.

Indeed

The surface area of the expanding explosion impacting Tenebrous' barrier is what severely diminished what Tenebrous needs to actually block

FYI?

10 meters from the epicenter?

About 1/1000th the energy of an omnidirectional explosion is exerted on a human sized surface area

Granted, we're talking a barrier, but we're also talking a blast radius greater than 10 meters *shrugs*



The sheer mass alone is underwhelming as a feat without knowing the speed by which the mass of rock was moving before Tenebrous halted it's KE *shrugs*

Originally posted by Beniboybling
No that's just conjecture. I mean really the sum of your argument is "its a massively massive door and therefore can tank massively massive explosions!"

Retarded yeah.

Regardless the explosion was potent enough to flood a mine the size of several catherdals in seconds, if that, which is probably more than the Barensthor could ever hope to output, and would have unlikely been diminished by much of a degree considering the speed at which it was travelling, and the minimal resistance it would have met.

More to the point it the kinetic buffet alone was enough to knock Plagueis on his ass, and Tenebrous capably warded it off while suspending massive slabs from the ceiling.

Yeah, I'm sure the developers created possibly the largest, thickest and most impressively sizable door in the game and thought "weak as shit". It's a blast door designed to stop explosions, obviously it would be highly resistant to kinetic damage. Indeed, it is considerably larger and thicker than the other blast doors found in the game, even those installed to protect military facilities and high-yield ordinance, the obvious and correct interpretation is that it is intended to be enormously strong.

Explosions diminish considerably simply by traveling through the air, so the distance and resistance would be more than adequate in lessening the force. And you say they were in a large area? The force would be immensely spread out and lessened. Its unlikely they faced a fraction of the force of the initial explosion.

Noob Plagueis getting knocked over doesn't mean much, the text doesn't state he actively had a shield up. The explosion was such that it merely set the hawk-bats caught up in it on fire and they weren't shredded by the blast. Furthermore, Plagueis was the one who was holding up the slabs, Tenebrous merely started helping him do that, notably when the fireballs final flames reached them.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, I'm sure the developers created possibly the largest, thickest and most impressively sizable door in the game and thought "weak as shit". It's a blast door designed to stop explosions, obviously it would be highly resistant to kinetic damage. Indeed, it is considerably larger and thicker than the other blast doors found in the game, even those installed to protect military facilities and high-yield ordinance, the obvious and correct interpretation is that it is intended to be enormously strong.That's not the point at all, the point is that your throwing out conjecture as to how strong.

Regardless we know, not strong enough for Act 1 Barensethor is blow through, so maybe "weak as shit" is that much of an exaggeration. mmm

Through dispersal yeah, in which case this explosion was funnelled through a series of tunnels, within an entirely enclosed space, and at nigh instant speeds.

Noob Plagueis? Lol. He was a fully-fledged Sith Lord with 50 years or so of training under his belt, I doubt the Barsenthor could even so much as budge him. And the explosion was described as "vaporising" so I imagine those bats didn't last long.

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Indeed

The surface area of the expanding explosion impacting Tenebrous' barrier is what severely diminished what Tenebrous needs to actually blockI feel like being funnelled through a tunnel would also increase the intensity as well, but I'm just a layman uneducated in the realm of physics.

That's a nice stat but seems rather relative, it doesn't take that big an explosion to kill a person for example, even if their only struck by 1/1000th of it, and an explosion that an fill several massive cathedrals is overkill in that regard, and getting caught it in would presumably f*ck over most people, even if they are only exposed to a fraction of it.

The speed at which gravity accelerated it I would think...

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I feel like being funnelled through a tunnel would also increase the intensity as well, but I'm just a layman uneducated in the realm of physics.

Was it being funneled? Genuinely don't remember *shrugs*

Thought it was destroying the tunnel

If it was only funneled through, I'm not even sure it was that amazing an explosion to begin with *shrugs*



Fill several cathedrals?

Or destroy?

Because you're only talking, what, the AOE of an MOAB/FOAB if it was only expansive enough to "fill" it

And it wouldn't even necessarily hold the power of one given, well, the destruction isn't exactly extreme if the explosion isn't plowing through the rock over just being funneled down a path *shrugs*

It'd hold massively more energy than either in the case the rock is being obliterated, but it just comes back to my first issue where surface area diminishes the intensity

Like I said, my example was from 10 meters away

Wasn't Tenebrous considerably further away?



That's why I called it underwhelming *shrugs*

I'm looking more for excess of triple digits m/s before I roll out of bed

Even then, it's just another bit feat

Tenebrous gets powerscaling, that's largely his only claim to fame and why I even bother contemplating him as a fighter

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Az's straw grasping is cute.

Tenebrous is outmatched here. His feats are rather shitty for his vaunted placement, and scaling from Bane isn't gonna get him much as Vitiate and Revan shits on Bane, too.

What straws are there to grasp? Sourcebooks say Banite scaling is legit and the weakest member of the entire line (at that moment) can tank army busting attacks. Now tell me how it is supposedly beyond Tenebrous to defend against Revan's coalition ragdolling.

Tenebrous is shit? Show me Revan sensing the states of individual midi-chlorians. Show me Revan running so fast that he nearly knocks Plagueis over. Show me Revan capably repelling explosions so great that they obliterate mines with tunnels the size of cathedrals. Show me Revan mathematically calculating the future or the connections to the Force of unborn life forms. Show me Revan being some thirty power-ups above Bane.

Only one thing you mentioned was really relevant to combat, and frankly causing a mine to collapse isn't a big deal. They're notoriously unstable and prone to collapse.

I mean, the very first boss in the Consular campaign also collapsed a large series of caves by ripping the ceiling out of it before he got a giant power up and Thor still smashed him so hard someone watching literally started worshiping her.

Basically what I'm saying is that 'Thor is a beast.

.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Tenebrous is shit?

No

His conventional raw power feats suck *shrugs*

Doesn't matter when he has powerscaling

But his actual feats suck

I'd say most feats in Star Wars in general kind of suck, but I tend to think in a larger scale than you do *shrugs*



This is beneficial in combat?

His precision with sensing is better, so what?



Context is king here

How far was he from Plagueis? I have to assume you mean air pressure, because any ******* can do this with a tackle (hell, I used to do this at ****ing recess in middle school).

Regardless?

I'm doubtful this requires more than transonic, if that, given the kind of wind that can push around human sized masses



Your ignorance isn't an excuse to wank a bit feat dude *shrugs*

Shit, its not like the depth of knowledge required here is anything outside you learn in high school

Tenebrous was hilariously outside the epicenter of the explosion. The surface area of what his barrier needed to defend against is a pittance to the actual power of the entire blast

If you want a feat to gawk at, gawk at Zannah defending against a wave of energy that was set to raze Ruusan to from some unknown number of kilometers away

Sure, it remains unimpressive in who benefits from it, but its orders of magnitude above this shit *shrugs*



Ok, he's brilliant

Raw intellect is a measure of how much magic you can toss around?

News to me *shrugs*



It sounds impressive when you say 30

Yet remains underwhelming when you remember how much each generation grew in power is never actually stipulated

Could be anything from nigh equals with barely an incremental increase to a meteoric rise

When you can demonstrate tangible, measurable growth?

This might actually be worth someone's time to more than shrug off as a pretty anecdote *shrugs*

You're free to speculate, but that's all it remains. No substance behind it sans gut feeling derived from what you think should be.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Only one thing you mentioned was really relevant to combat, and frankly causing a mine to collapse isn't a big deal. They're notoriously unstable and prone to collapse.

I mean, the very first boss in the Consular campaign also collapsed a large series of caves by ripping the ceiling out of it before he got a giant power up and Thor still smashed him so hard someone watching literally started worshiping her.

Basically what I'm saying is that 'Thor is a beast.

That didn't mean this one was.

Nalen Raloch was calling down the cave (which is a minuscule fraction of the size of the mines on Bal'Demnic) much slower than the explosion did the mines, lmfao. Besides, the fact that the Consular fled the caves rather than supporting the collapsing pieces like Tenebrous did only suggests that they lacked the power at the time to actually defend themselves from the cave-in. Your comparison is terrible.

@Chaos - I didn't say those were combat-displays of power, just attacking the general notion that Tenebrous is just weak in general. It's not as if non-combat showings are irrelevant - otherwise most of the claims to the fame for the OR kingpins are invalidated.

The feats suck in comparison to what? Your vaunted anime feats? Or in comparison to the majority of SW showings? You tell me which one is more relevant here.

He was standing next to Plagueis, IIRC, and knocking over human sized masses doesn't mean anything compared to knocking over one of the most powerful Dark Lords ever, lol.

As for the Zannah showing, that was an instinctive manifestation of potential as opposed to displaying mastered power on a whim, but that doesn't matter considering that Tenebrous has some thirty power-ups on Zannah, so that only strengthens Tenebrous' standing. Tenebrous not being at the epicenter doesn't change the fact that the explosion was still collapsing cathedral-sized mine tunnels and knocking Plagueis off his feet at the time that it reached Tenebrous.

And as impressive as Tenebrous' mathematical calculations are, that doesn't mean I expect such things to be necessary to analyze somebody's power level. Holistically, Tenebrous is several orders of magnitude beyond the likes of Bane and Zannah, and immediately preceding Plagueis. That in of itself speaks to a greater amount of holistic power than Revan and many others can speak to.

EDIT:



There's nothing underwhelming about unspecified information, lol. Anyways, Palpatine and Plagueis both gained meteoric power-ups and Tenebrous spent well over a human lifetime growing after succeeding his own master, so I'm tempted to say that the gap would also be very sizable. That aside, even slight power-ups amount to a significant disparity between Bane and Tenebrous, even though it's evidently not just slight power-ups each time based on the underlying basis for the Rule of Two, the established precedent for the amount of power gained upon a Banite Master's death, and how much time each Banite Master has to grow in power after taking the throne.

Originally posted by SunRazer
@Chaos - I didn't say those were combat-displays of power, just attacking the general notion that Tenebrous is just weak in general. It's not as if non-combat showings are irrelevant - otherwise most of the claims to the fame for the OR kingpins are invalidated.

Not what I mean

I don't do that whole "combat" vs "non-combat" shit

Given crossover fights include many verses with supernatural powers yet no actual fights?

That's kind of a stupid stipulation in my normal arena

What I mean by "non-combat" as you put it here?

The esoteric shit like precision sensory that has combat utility, but suffers vast diminished returns in how far cranking it up matters



Not even discussing medium

I'm just talking his tier

They're too generic, nondescript, a waste of my time to do any kind of math for

They're like Dooku's Obelisk feat

I can eyeball that while high balling it and still be underwhelmed



Dude

****ing Kanan Jarrus has better feats

Chucking those Asteroids is hilariously above anything Tenebrous showcased

Hell, the Eighth Brother and Seventh Sister lifting that Jedi Temple is plausibly better too if I had to actually give it thought and comparison *shrugs*

For a guy of Tenebrous' tier?

His feats suck

But, as I noted?

He gets powerscaling, albeit not to Kanan Jarrus because different canon



A human sized mass

Where the super human strength characters possess in franchise is negligibly different in terms of order of magnitude from low tier to top tier

Kind of how it works when your best strength feats are Kenobi ****ing up Grievous' armor (because it eats starship lasers and explosions that ****ed up a city or some shit), Grievous can trade blows with the ****er, and season 1 Ahsoka can manage to not get her arms broken from clashing with the guy *shrugs*

It's kind of like after images, why should I be impressed by bowling over a human sized mass, especially when super weight isn't an actual law of physics but an anime/video game trope



So we're just ignoring the part where complete nothings, both Jedi and Sith, survived without erecting barriers

Like I said, its an impressive feat, but when fodder can accomplish the same, who cares outside of crossover battles?

In universe comparisons are worthless



It kind of does

As I've told Beni?

Simple math tells me even being 10 meters outside the epicenter diminishes the payload eaten a hilarious amount

Seriously, have fun with 4PIr^2

It's all you'll need here *shrugs*

Anyway, I've got to sleep. Later dude and good night.

Originally posted by SunRazer
That didn't mean this one was.

Nalen Raloch was calling down the cave (which is a minuscule fraction of the size of the mines on Bal'Demnic) much slower than the explosion did the mines, lmfao. Besides, the fact that the Consular fled the caves rather than supporting the collapsing pieces like Tenebrous did only suggests that they lacked the power at the time to actually defend themselves from the cave-in. Your comparison is terrible.

It means that it wouldn't take much to destablise the mine and trigger a cave-in. Chaos has already thoroughly debunked the idea that the shockwave was especially notable when it hit them, even if it would be powerful enough to trigger the cave in initially.

Uh, yeah, TK is slower than an explosion. News at 11. The Consular fleeing only demonstrates prudence since they have no clue how much of the cave could collapse (the whole mountain could come down on her, lol) and have no reason to support it, especially when Raloch is currently getting away. It's not like she could weld the ceiling back together, holding it up would accomplish nothing. Plagueis and Tenebrous fled the explosion initially as well, remember.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It means that it wouldn't take much to destablise the mine and trigger a cave-in. Chaos has already thoroughly debunked the idea that the shockwave was especially notable when it hit them, even if it would be powerful enough to trigger the cave in initially.

Uh, yeah, TK is slower than an explosion. News at 11. The Consular fleeing only demonstrates prudence since they have no clue how much of the cave could collapse (the whole mountain could come down on her, lol) and have no reason to support it, especially when Raloch is currently getting away. It's not like she could weld the ceiling back together, holding it up would accomplish nothing. Plagueis and Tenebrous fled the explosion initially as well, remember.

1. Not all mines are the same. The shockwave sent Plagueis flying, so yeah, it was notable. Authorial intent and demonstrable facts >>> fan-made calculations that the author obviously didn't bother considering.

2. Try crying over how demolished your case is rather than shooting sarcastic remarks. You were trying to compare Raloch's performance to that of the explosion's. They don't compare, at all, and it isn't just travel speed, but the potency of the attacks as well. At minimum, the surrounding area would've collapsed instantly, but it didn't. The explosion was infinitely more powerful than the TK you're mentioning.

As for whether lifting up slabs would do anything, wasn't the Holocron still sitting there? I don't recall Raloch taking it, but I may be wrong. If so, the Consular holding up the slabs and moving them somewhere else would've saved the Holocron.

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Not what I mean

I don't do that whole "combat" vs "non-combat" shit

Given crossover fights include many verses with supernatural powers yet no actual fights?

That's kind of a stupid stipulation in my normal arena

What I mean by "non-combat" as you put it here?

The esoteric shit like precision sensory that has combat utility, but suffers vast diminished returns in how far cranking it up matters

Which still doesn't diminish it as an extreme showing of Force mastery?



You could say that of every character given what the likes of Rivi-Anu have been able to accomplish.

I admit Tenebrous could obviously use more and better showings, but he's a supporting character and what we have for him is pretty good. He certainly doesn't belong down in the dumps like a number of people here pretend.



Whereas you can eyeball Revan being one-shotted by Vitiate's Lightning and calculate that he absorbed 97% of the Lightning?



You might want to consider the ease and immediacy of Tenebrous' feat (I assume you're referring to the Barrier one) before you go around claiming about how shit it is. Obviously he could use more, but just dismissing them on the basis of them sucking isn't enough. Not when most of the characters who are supported here don't have showings of that caliber to begin with. And that's kind of my point. Tenebrous' showings alone would actually put him above the shit-tier that half of the people have him in.



Maybe because Jedi and Sith don't get knocked over as easily as regular humans?



Maybe because they weren't actually hit by the storm? Is it ever shown that they just waded through the storm without a Barrier and emerged unscathed?



How on earth does this change the fact that it was doing the things I mentioned when it hit Tenebrous?

Originally posted by SunRazer
1. Not all mines are the same. The shockwave sent Plagueis flying, so yeah, it was notable. Authorial intent and demonstrable facts >>> fan-made calculations that the author obviously didn't bother considering.

2. Try crying over how demolished your case is rather than shooting sarcastic remarks. You were trying to compare Raloch's performance to that of the explosion's. They don't compare, at all, and it isn't just travel speed, but the potency of the attacks as well. At minimum, the surrounding area would've collapsed instantly, but it didn't. The explosion was infinitely more powerful than the TK you're mentioning.

As for whether lifting up slabs would do anything, wasn't the Holocron still sitting there? I don't recall Raloch taking it, but I may be wrong. If so, the Consular holding up the slabs and moving them somewhere else would've saved the Holocron.

It's something that happens. It's what happens when an explosion occurs underground. It's how physic's work. Obviously the explosion did trigger a cave-in and therefore it really needn't have been a powerful explosion to pull it off. Plagueis being a dummy and not defending himself means nothing.

Lawl, cry harder. I don't even get what you're trying to say, it looks like you're just moaning. You think Raloch should have collapsed the cave that he was in, instantly? And I wasn't directly comparing the two feats, I was more pointing out that a similar result was achieved by Raloch ripping the ceiling apart, proving that you can destabilize a cave network rather easily.

I'm looking at it on youtube. I think the Consular picks it up before they flee the cave since it disappears after the cutscene ends. It's also worth mentioning that you're attacked by (apparently suicidal) Flesh Raiders as you flee the cave, with a bonus quest to killing them so theres canonical evidence for them being there. So there's really no reason for her to try holding up a mountain and she'd be attacked while doing so.

1. You don't get to play the "dummy didn't defend himself" card when you take Malgus' Force Lightning/Wave on the Strike Teams as legitimate showings, lol.

2. It's not just destabilizing cave networks, though. Your comparison still doesn't make sense, considering since the cave Raloch collapsed is nothing compared to the mines on Bal'Demnic.

Fair enough on them taking the holocron.

1. But you don't, so my argument is still valid against you unless you want to contradict yourself. It's also apples and oranges, we saw that they had plenty of time to react unlike with Plagueis and were actively facing a foe who had possibly already attacked them once. There's no mention of him forming a barrier and given that Tenebrous did so, no reason to suspect he couldn't were he to similarly attempt it.

2. The scale is irrelevant, it still exists as an example that proves my point about how an entire cave network can be easily destabilized in such a manner.

@Ant Was the accolade of Revan being above any Jedi before him as of the MW?

The one I'm citing here is from the Foundry.

Here's a way to calculate the increase in power of the average Banite Sith: Take the gap between Valkorion and Bane, and divide it by 30.

And until someone refutes what Ellimist said, Plagueis remains stronger than Valkorion and stating opinions, whining, b-itching, and moaning about it isn't changing that.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Tenebrous is shit?

His feats are, yes.



Because Vitiate and Revan are above Bane by a ludicrously large amount, too? Hell, I can make a case Vitiate is more or less equal, if not above, Bane before the Nethama ritual: knowledge = power, and the ability to completely such a complex rituals shows a significant degree of understanding ad mastery of the Force, and we all know the raw power is there. After absorbing the power of thousands of the most powerful Sith Lords in the galaxy, and the entire planet, he is above Bane by an utterly unholy amount. Quite frankly, beyond 100 fold. And Revan is someone that can challenge him (Vitiate) in unfavorable circumstances, proving the huge gap between him and Bane, too.

As for Zannah taking army busting attacks, Vitiate and Revan benefit from ridiculous scaling as well from other characters they are factually far, far, far above - so I'm not getting why you think that is gonna be his claim to fame over the TOR group.

Maybe the whole experience of doing the thing lead Tenebrae to a power growth, but he didn't literally gain the power of 8000 Sith and a planet. He gained their life force which prolonged his life to an unnatural length. You can only be as powerful as the amount of Midichlorians you have, since that is how Force users channel the Force - and the only person who has ever increased his own is Plagueis.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
After absorbing the power of thousands of the most powerful Sith Lords in the galaxy, and the entire planet, he is above Bane by an utterly unholy amount. Quite frankly, beyond 100 fold. Lol look a me ma with my complete conjecture!

Originally posted by ILS
Maybe the whole experience of doing the thing lead Tenebrae to a power growth, but he didn't literally gain the power of 8000 Sith and a planet. He gained their life force which prolonged his life to an unnatural length. You can only be as powerful as the amount of Midichlorians you have, since that is how Force users channel the Force - and the only person who has ever increased his own is Plagueis.

Fair enough. I'd concede a significant amount of the Force energy consumed went toward granting his conditional immortality, but we do know for a fact, per TOR Encyclopedia that the ritual "vastly increased his capacity" as a Force user. The keyword here being "capacity" which, via the definition of the word, implies an increase to the amount of something one can hold, or contain.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Lol look a me ma with my complete conjecture!
lal.

Seriously, babe --- the arbitrary "100 fold" was never supposed to be taken at face value.

Point is, via hype and holistic intent, and feats: Vitiate is vastly above Bane.

but a sourcebook says Bane > Vitiate

Some sources say Bastila = Dooku.

But we ignore what we dislike around these parts, and latch on what we do like.

That source has been debunked.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Some sources say Bastila = Dooku.

But we ignore what we dislike around these parts, and latch on what we do like.

We ignore it, because we are educated about its context.

https://sites.google.com/site/assfrancstarwarsmini/presentation-du-jeu/d-les-figurines/preview/set-5-champions-of-the-force/preview-6a

Now you are educated, too. You're welcome.

Glad to see support for Bane > Vitiate.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Because Vitiate and Revan are above Bane by a ludicrously large amount, too? Hell, I can make a case Vitiate is more or less equal, if not above, Bane before the Nethama ritual: knowledge = power, and the ability to completely such a complex rituals shows a significant degree of understanding ad mastery of the Force, and we all know the raw power is there. After absorbing the power of thousands of the most powerful Sith Lords in the galaxy, and the entire planet, he is above Bane by an utterly unholy amount. Quite frankly, beyond 100 fold. And Revan is someone that can challenge him (Vitiate) in unfavorable circumstances, proving the huge gap between him and Bane, too.

Vitiate can design a ritual in theory. But the fact that he required 8000 additional participants to pull it off in practise basically debunks your entire case of his knowledge translating to personal Force power. And as has been mentioned in this thread, which you conceded to, the ritual didn't increase his personal Force power, only his potential. And then there's the fact that he's factually inferior to Ludo Kressh and Naga Sadow at this point. And Ludo is just... lmao.

As for how much he attained of that potential - unquantifiable. Novel Vitiate, aside from beating DC members under unknown circumstances - a feat he has never ever replicated I might add - is essentially a featless character. His only claim to fame is scaling from Revan, which is hypocritical as hell for the Tenebrous haters/Vitiate wankers to be lowballing Tenebrous because of a lack of feats. Well, actually, logically Vitiate shouldn't get any sort of scaling from Revan given that he's only ever defeated the latter on one of the most powerful dark side nexi there is. He's featsless on neutral ground.

And the scaling Revan gets from Bane is laughable compared to Tenebrous'. So we're back to arguing from feats.



The only scaling Vitiate gets is from someone whose only feat is killing herself with her own attack.

Revan is genuinely a powerhouse, though, but he doesn't compare in the slightest to Banite scaling.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Glad to see support for Bane > Vitiate.

...what?

Originally posted by SunRazer
Which still doesn't diminish it as an extreme showing of Force mastery?

It doesn't, but I'm not sure why finesse is relevant

It's not like you're discussing something straight forward like TK

You're discussing more abstract shit where what is impressive is more difficult to gauge

Is sensing midichlorians more impressive than being able to sense individual people from across the galaxy? Both are essentially finding a needle in a haystack



Not every character, but her feat is certainly one of the better ones



He isn't down in the dumps though?

He has the accolades, thus receives powerscaling

Think of it like Dragon Ball

Most of their feats suck, especially in the manga (Frankly, Super's feats suck too, but they have a higher ratio of stand out feats to bit feats than the manga did so far). I can count on 1 hand the number of feats worth actually discussing in a thread based on narrative context

An individual character's feats aren't important so much as who you can play connect the dots with them too



Their should have been ashes *shrugs*

All he was left with is burns

For the feat to play out like it did, he needs to negate most of the attack's energy for his body to still be a body. His incredibly human, without the Force protecting it, body

I don't like half the things I look at, I generally find them stupid

My beliefs are irrelevant though, I work with what I see on screen/panel/page

Letting my own biases get in the way of that already ruins this disfunctional hobby before I can even take part in it *shrugs*



Its an impressive reaction

I'm just underwhelmed by the circumstance

Were he closer to the epicenter accomplishing it, it'd still be a bit feat, but it would be one of the better bit feats in the setting

I'm pretty sure you can tell from my Dragon Ball example how I go about judging fiction in general *shrugs*



It's not like I'm calling the character weak

Like I've made evident above with my Dragon Ball comparison?

I just think focusing on his actual feats to demonstrate his power when he has powerscaling going for him is a waste of your time *shrugs*



Would probably depend on how ready Plagueis was to endure Tenebrous rushing into to determine if this is a strength feat worth considering



Well, a barrier would have been pretty obvious with how the comic showed Zannah's

No green patch of grass was around where any of them lived

Hell, IIRC, a few ended up buried under some ashes before emerging

Fact of the matter is though? By virtue of being in a location that was hit by the Storm and the fallout stretched to the horizon from where they were?

They were hit by it too long before Kaan called it off *shrugs*

If someone has the comic on hand to check, that'd be cool though



Because it's not like Tenebrous was being hit by the full force of the explosion destroying the mine

Think of an explosion, like I hinted at with 4PIr^2, as an ever expanding spherical surface area

Per square meter such and such energy sits upon it. Starting from ground zero is where the highest concentration of energy starts.

What happens as the surface area expands? The concentration of energy diminishes rather rapidly.

The amount of energy hitting Tenebrous is limited to whatever the size of his barrier's surface area was divided by the surface area of the expanding explosion at time of impact

Bowling over Plagueis is... nice? But strength feats in Star Wars, even at their best, are markedly beneath their more magical attacks. Every time you have a force user swing a lightsaber at a TKed object? It's muddied by the fact a Lightsaber's cutting power isn't reliant on the ****er's own striking strength due to the sheer intensity of the blade.

This is something I'd be happy to be wrong on though, the sheer disconnect between upper bound strength feats and their best magic annoys me as I currently perceive it

Well, Ant, Deronn? You responding or not?

Obviously.

But getting my hands on a computer as been a tough task lately.

Why people don't simply use mobile phones is beyond me.

Its annoying to do.

Too difficult, yeah.

Especially when I'm quoting novels, and screen shotting relevant sources.

Originally posted by Azronger
Why people don't simply use mobile phones is beyond me.
Depends on the mobile.

DC be a poor phag who has to go to internet cafes, yeah.

Um, the process for quoting and screen-shotting is basically exactly the same as on PC. confused

Not sure what's so difficult.

Oh shut up. Touch-screens are annoying as balls to use compared to keyboard and mouse, the UI is ****ing cockstench and its way the **** more tedious to get sources and quote them than it is on a home computer. I've never even tried screen-shotting because eff that bollocks. Phones suck shit to use for anything more extensive than texting.

tbh

@CT - I'll respond tonight or tomorrow.

Originally posted by Azronger
Um, the process for quoting and screen-shotting is basically exactly the same as on PC. confused

Not sure what's so difficult.

No, it ain't, lal. One if much quicker and less painful.

Sit tight, I'll have the post , and by proxy, your demise, up by tomorrow.

'Kay.

It's not a just a "theory" babe, it's fact, lal.



Umm, no it doesn't? It just means he wasn't powerful enough, at that point in time to complete the ritual by his lonesome. A ritual, that is quite frankly, the most complex we've ever seen on the Star Wars universe. It doesn't undermine my point that Tenebrae was significantly powerful at that point.

To hammer in my point, specifically:

- Tenebrae, had the knowledge and mastery over the Force to design the most complex ritual in the history of the galaxy. Having such a understanding and profound degree in knowing the inner workings of the Force. His ability to actively construct complex holocrons and even trap the spirit of his father, Lord Dramath in one --- also shows a near unrivaled display of Force knowledge.

- Various sources, even Darth Plagueis in particular, has hinted/flat out stated, that knowledge equal power, and it is the route to be taken if one wants to increase his or her strength in the Force, and, as showed above, Tenebrae had that in abundance. In order for one to have such an understanding over the complexity of the Force, they must be vastly powerful in it.

- Knowledge is nothing if one lacks the raw power to effectively use it{Kinda a oxymorinic statement now that i think about it. Good thing, Tenebrae has feats killing his father and striping him of his powers, taking over an entire planet at a 13 year old and amassing a legion of loyal followers, and accolades that label him as being a "Force prodigy" "supremely strong". Also, the fact he was even able to man the ritual is a showing of power in the Force in itself.

Given it has repeatedly been showed the the more knowledge you gain, the more power you become, and generally - knowledge equals power - and the fact Tenebrae obviously had raw power and knowledge --- I think my argument holds up against scrutiny that Tenebrae was extremely powerful even before the ritual. Tenebrae's knowledge already superseded Bane's by this point, and his raw power to apply that knowledge to was there as well.

All in all, I don't see the two being too far off from each other. Feel free to disagree.



I rank Naga above Bane, and Ludo slightly behind Naga. So, nah. Rhis doesn't really undermine my argument in the slightest.



Uhh, no? I only conceded to the fact that he didn't literally have the power of 8,000 Sith Lords and a planet, and that a good chunk of it went into making himself conditionally immortal. The ritual has both been stated to increase his capacity and "fuel" his power in the Force. I mean, it's absolutely silly to even suggest it wouldn't. That's even assuming capacity means potential from the get-go.

Regardless of if he quite literally has that gargantuan amount of power to actively call upon in a battle or not: absorbing that power of that magnitude is going to make one exponentially more powerful than they were before, and even having 1/1,000 of that energy, to pull from is so far above Bane, it's comical.

There goes Tenebrous scaling case.



Dunno what you're spouting off about here....

Novel Vitiate, aside from beating DC members under unknown circumstances - a feat he has never ever replicated I might add - is essentially a featless character.

lal, what?

He has feats throughout the entire book.

-We know he mind wrecked Revan and Malak, with only a fraction of his power.

- He obliterated Revan's astromech droid into a billion pieces

- He overloaded/defeated Revan's tutanimus and utterly fried him with Lightning

As for the DC member feat, unless I have reason to believe he destroyed by some prepped up means , I'm going to assume he defeated them via non-circumstantial means. Not like it's far fetched given he was "infinitely" more powerful than one of the more vaunted members on the DC, in Nyriss.

All of which, is better than moving rocks, and shielding yourself from an explosion.



Not really, lmao.



It would help if you actually understood my argument before you post crap like this. mmm



Nah, it's clear as day that Vitiate is > Revan. Even accounting for the nexus, Revan lost rather comfortably and at times, Revan even drawed on the darkside of the Force, particularly why he was able to telekinetically punch Vitiate when he was distracted attempting to telepathically dominate his Revan's will.




Wait, what?



Except, Darth Nihilus and co. was painted as inferior threat(s) to Vitiate throughout the entire book. As much as people like to use fanon ways to explain KotOR Exile being =/= Novel Meeta, there really isn't any actual canon statements backing that up.

The lowballing Nyriss is comical, Darth Sidious himself was killed by his own attack. There is no shame in Nyriss getting killed by a much more powerful Revan. Hell, Nyriss Force feats share parity with Bane, as well as her augmentation and knowledge in the Force (arguably).



Given Revan shits on Bane, yeah, he does.

I don't have time to dedicate to this right now, but this is far from being my demise.

Dunno why you feel the need to keep me posted. Reply whenever, lmao.



Matter of perspective --- my post was damn good.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Matter of perspective --- my post was damn good.

It was, I have to give you that.

DE Palpatine was intended to show how strong an Ancient Sith Lord is, and Vitiate is the strongest of the Ancients so he wins.

Originally posted by The Merchant
DE Palpatine was intended to show how strong an Ancient Sith Lord is
Quote?

Ancient authorial intents don't mean anything, lol. Palpatine was initially intended to be a mere puppet without any real power.