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Fight takes place on flat, neutral terrain.

Unchained!Vaylin >> Exar Kun >> Curbed!Vaylin.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Unchained!Vaylin >> Exar Kun >> Curbed!Vaylin.

Where would you put prime unrestricted Vaylin? Revan tier? Above?

Above Plagueis, let alone Revan.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Above Plagueis, let alone Revan.
Uhm...how?

One-shotting Arcann and Senya at the same time.

That's beyond Plaguies, Revan, Kun, etc.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
One-shotting Arcann (Vader level) and Senya (Maul level) at the same time.

Video?I don't remember the Video really good, tbh

Also, Vader > Arcann and Maul > Senya.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Video?I don't remember the Video really good, tbh

Also, Vader > Arcann and Maul > Senya.
Look up Dulfy chapter eight KOTET. On mobile so can't link.

I said they were the same level, not that they were above.

---

Vaylin > any Banite Sith besides Palps.

Roughtly minute, maybe?
Edit: Found it.

Obviously. But I wouldn't put Aracann above Dooku, or Senya above Kenobi. But it likely is just based on different interpretations of "Level", lol.

So, Vaylin > Valkorion as well?

Fast forward 4/5ths through. You'll know when you see it.

Well, Arcann, Dooku, and Vader are all roughly on par. Same for Senya, Maul, and Kenobi.

Arcann ~ Dooku ~ Vader?

After seeing it, it isn't something I would put beyond Plagueis, tbh.

Plagueis has nothing like that.

It's strongly implied Vaylin is a direct threat to Valkorion himself.

Plagueis obviously is a threath to Valkorion as well.
I saw better feats than pushing an off-guard Arcann and Senya, tbh.

Vaylin solidly

I think this is just hype talking, Ant. Let it die down a bit and the forum will have her sub Vader.

Originally posted by MythLord
I think this is just hype talking, Ant. Let it die down a bit and the forum will have her sub Vader.
Sub-Vader level character is a threat to Valkorion?

One-shotting Arcann and Senya is great, yet prime Exar Kun is around the level of easily one-shotting entire melded teams of Jedi and taking out any pre-TUF Luke.

Honestly Vaylin is a whole cat of bags that can evidently be manipulated. So even if she does have more raw power than Revan or Exar Kun, she's strongly susceptible to being mentally manipulated.

Pretty sure Vaylin caught Arcann and Senya off-guard.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Pretty sure Vaylin caught Arcann and Senya off-guard.

Arcann comparable to Dooku/Vader or Senya to Maul/Kenob? Oh god this is aweful

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Arcann comparable to Dooku/Vader
He obviously is, lmao.

But Senya isn't on Obi's or Maul's level, honestly.

Yep. She is good, but I see no reason to put her above The B-Team, or on par with Kenobi, tbh.

Vaylin may have great raw power but her mind will be childs play for Kun.

I think that will be her major loss here, her mind is too unstable and Kun will destroy her mind.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
He obviously is, lmao.

No he isn't. Vader and Dooku are amongst the most accomplished fighters ever, in terms of feats, accolades and holistic portrayal and in each single of those criteria they outclass Arcann.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
No he isn't. Vader and Dooku are amongst the most accomplished fighters ever, in terms of feats, accolades and holistic portrayal and in each single of those criteria they outclass Arcann.
I agree, but they don't outclass him so badly that he isn't in their league, lmaol

Originally posted by Ursumeles
I agree, but they don't outclass him so badly that he isn't in their league, lmaol

It's basically being the best/elite of your time vs being the best/elite of all time, depends on how much you weight you put behind it.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
It's basically being the best/elite of your time vs being the best/elite of all time, depends on how much you weight you put behind it.
Arcann is obviously one of the best of all time as well, lmao.

Lol if you don't think Arcann is in the best/elite of all time.

Nah, being related to Senya makes him exempt by default.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Arcann is obviously one of the best of all time as well, lmao.

It doesn't matter what you're or mine opinion on this is, if we don't have any conclusive way to determine if he's amongst the best ever than he isn't amongst the best ever.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
No he isn't. Vader and Dooku are amongst the most accomplished fighters ever, in terms of feats, accolades and holistic portrayal and in each single of those criteria they outclass Arcann.
Wrong.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
It doesn't matter what you're or mine opinion on this is, if we don't have any conclusive way to determine if he's amongst the best ever than he isn't amongst the best ever.

Lol.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
It doesn't matter what you're or mine opinion on this is, if we don't have any conclusive way to determine if he's amongst the best ever than he isn't amongst the best ever.
You are genuinely retarded.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You are genuinely retarded.

Exar gets a b-itch.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
On mobile so can't link.

Why not? I use mobile for 99% of the time, including WoT debates.

wow, cool kid over here

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
wow, cool kid over here

?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You are genuinely retarded.

I just prefer to go with feats, accolades and other things that aren't personal opinion's or preferences, you know that's how the world actually works.

So, you put Plo Koon and Luminara Unduli above Lord Nyax and UnuThul?

Yeah, that's called retarded.

There's no rule that you need a "one of the best' accolade to be among the best, lmfao.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
So, you put Plo Koon and Luminara Unduli above Lord Nyax and UnuThul?

Yeah, that's called retarded.

There's no rule that you need a "one of the best' accolade to be among the best, lmfao.

Not necessarely but it certainly helps and I said conclusive evidence, not only accolades.

That's using absence of evidence as evidence of absence, which is wrong.

Originally posted by SunRazer
That's using absence of evidence as evidence of absence, which is wrong.

How so? If evidence doesn't exist then why would you ever assume it did.

Not the point. The point is just because someone doesn't have a specific accolade or specific feat doesn't mean he suddenly wouldn't be capable of performing that feat, or receiving that accolade.

For example: Lord Nyax, Overlord Shimrra and UnuThul were never credited as "one of the most powerful bla, bla, bla". So does that mean they wouldn't be factored in within that category? Given their performances against Grandmaster Luke of all people, I doubt they wouldn't.

Or how about Lumiya? She lacks TK feats of dominating/overpowering people. Does that mean Zett Jukassa can resist her Force Choke?

What I think DDuelist is getting at is the movie era is filled with either verifiable "best of all history" candidates or people who by proxy of fighting them are of similar ability. Whereas, TOR doesn't have any of those accolades to begin with.

But that doesn't mean Tyranus is a league ahead of Arcann because he was given a quote that would've been given to Arcann is he served within that era, anyways.

In fairness, Juyo can only be learned by the most skilled of Force wielders according to Kreia. Who isn't an encyclopedia per se, although one could argue that she was basically serving as a game manual at that point anyways.

Originally posted by MythLord
Not the point. The point is just because someone doesn't have a specific accolade or specific feat doesn't mean he suddenly wouldn't be capable of performing that feat, or receiving that accolade.

For example: Lord Nyax, Overlord Shimrra and UnuThul were never credited as "one of the most powerful bla, bla, bla". So does that mean they wouldn't be factored in within that category? Given their performances against Grandmaster Luke of all people, I doubt they wouldn't.

Or how about Lumiya? She lacks TK feats of dominating/overpowering people. Does that mean Zett Jukassa can resist her Force Choke?

Did you read my comment? I said 'conclusive evidence', not just accolades, while those characters would of course being list as one of the best ever because they've fought against the best ever (that's conclusive evidence).

To clarify, I never said that you have to get an "one of the best ever" accolade to belong amongst them, no, I said that there needs to be conclusive evidence to put you amongst the best ever. This could rang from, accolades to feats to power scaling but either way if you have a character that is, through any of the above mentioned methods, listed as "one of the best ever" and you have another character that's, through the same methods, one of the best of his time than who's superior? I think I prefer the first character.

That's not really the point. If Arcann is one of the best of his time, then he's immediately to be considered among the best of all time since he's still peaking pretty highly in an era with dozens, if not hundreds, of warriors in a bloodbath war.

The TOR era strives to be OP. Being among the best of them would certainly put Arcann among the best ever. In fact, Arcann's feats and hype should logically place him within that ballpark.

I agree, he's inferior to Tyranus and Vader, but he's in their league.

Originally posted by MythLord
That's not really the point. If Arcann is one of the best of his time, then he's immediately to be considered among the best of all time since he's still peaking pretty highly in an era with dozens, if not hundreds, of warriors in a bloodbath war.

The TOR era strives to be OP. Being among the best of them would certainly put Arcann among the best ever. In fact, Arcann's feats and hype should logically place him within that ballpark.

I agree, he's inferior to Tyranus and Vader, but he's in their league.

One of the best of a certain period is being amongst the best of all time? That's the same as saying being amongst the best out of a few thousand fighters is the same as being amongst the best of a million fighters, that just doesn't work.

Why would his feats place him amongst them? Because you "feel" he should belong there? Again, assumptions and personal opinion.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
One of the best of a certain period is being amongst the best of all time? That's the same as saying being amongst the best out of a few thousand fighters is the same as being amongst the best of a million fighters, that just doesn't work.

Well, if you're going to stretch my statement out of context, then yeah, sure. Most of those "millions" come from lesser eras of fighters, or are just flat out fodder. So yeah, him peaking over a thousand semi-decent characters mean he'll peak over a million fodder characters.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Why would his feats place him amongst them? Because you "feel" he should belong there? Again, assumptions and personal opinion.

Because logic exists, maybe? A lot of his feats are deserving to mark him amongst some of the greatest in history. Especially when he's beating someone with a similar accolade.

Originally posted by MythLord
Well, if you're going to stretch my statement out of context, then yeah, sure. Most of those "millions" come from lesser eras of fighters, or are just flat out fodder. So yeah, him peaking over a thousand semi-decent characters mean he'll peak over a million fodder characters.



Because logic exists, maybe? A lot of his feats are deserving to mark him amongst some of the greatest in history. Especially when he's beating someone with a similar accolade.

How would you know that those other era's are lesser? You single handedly deciding that these "millions" are fodder because, again, you feel so isn't really evidence.

Then I ask you what feats? The Outlander/HoT/... also only has the best of his time accolade so...

Revan and Vitiate have them.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Revan and Vitiate have them. [/QUOTE

I think he's more aiming at your average high-ranking Sith or Jedi, there's little doubt that Revan or Vitiate are amongst the best ever.

The Hero of Tython being the greatest Jedi of three-hundred years of galactic history places him also among the best in galactic history, lol.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
How would you know that those other era's are lesser? You single handedly deciding that these "millions" are fodder because, again, you feel so isn't really evidence.

Because comparing nameless characters with accolades, and just nameless characters from other eras with literally nothing to their name(or lack thereof) other than swinging a lightsaber, makes the former look better.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Then I ask you what feats? The Outlander/HoT/... also only has the best of his time accolade so...

His superiority over HoTLander, who has the accolade of being amongst the greatest swordsmen in generations(already marking him ahead of the "just of his time" accolade) as a padawan. The accolade: "one of the best evah!" also isn't really that conclusive. It means you'll do great in any era and you're ahead of it's fodder by a considerable degree... Big deal.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Revan and Vitiate have them.

Malgus too.