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The Exile's apprentices: Visas Marr, Atton Rand and Brianna

vs

Inquisitors: Seventh Sister, Eighth Brother and Fifth Brother

Duel takes place on neutral terrain

Team 1.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Team 1.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Team 1.

Inquisitors but it's a good fight

Inquisitors pretty easily.

LMFAO the Lost Jedi cream.

Their pants.

They are better than the Inquisitors in every feasible manner.

They're really not. Name me a single feat better then -

____________________________________________

Helping to hold a small ship in place despite it trying to launch with its thrusters.

Helping to life a Lightside temple that would have likely been resistant to their efforts.

____________________________________________

- and I might consider your position.

The G.I. isn't in this thread.

All: Cutting through a small army of Sith before killing three Sith Lords amped by a ritual and the dark side energies of Freedon Nadd's Tomb.

All: Being highly proficient in numerous lightsaber forms and many Force techniques, before becoming the Jedi High Council members of the rebuilt Jedi Order, an order which flourished under their teachings.

Brianna: Instantly blitzing the five Handmaidens despite them all being highly trained precognitive duelists, before dueling evenly with Atris. A master of numerous lightsaber forms, including Juyo, who had the combat techniques of dozens of Sith holocrons and is confirmed to be a greater master of lightsaber combat than even Master Kavar.

Visas: Being the fourth most powerful and skilled Sith in the entire Triumvirate, an elite sect of assassins who were highly trained war veterans as Revanchists before gaining the esoteric techniques of the Trayus Academy.

Atton: Defeating Darth Sion, a Sith Assassin with decades of Jedi slaughtering experience, whilst on a colossal geyser of dark side energy.

The Lost Jedi stomp.

Atton solos.

Originally posted by AncientPower
All: Cutting through a small army of Sith before killing three Sith Lords amped by a ritual and the dark side energies of Freedon Nadd's Tomb.

All: Being highly proficient in numerous lightsaber forms and many Force techniques, before becoming the Jedi High Council members of the rebuilt Jedi Order, an order which flourished under their teachings.

Brianna: Instantly blitzing the five Handmaidens despite them all being highly trained precognitive duelists, before dueling evenly with Atris. A master of numerous lightsaber forms, including Juyo, who had the combat techniques of dozens of Sith holocrons and is confirmed to be a greater master of lightsaber combat than even Master Kavar.

Visas: Being the fourth most powerful and skilled Sith in the entire Triumvirate, an elite sect of assassins who were highly trained war veterans as Revanchists before gaining the esoteric techniques of the Trayus Academy.

Atton: Defeating Darth Sion, a Sith Assassin with decades of Jedi slaughtering experience, whilst on a colossal geyser of dark side energy.

The Lost Jedi stomp.

Atton fought and defeated Darth Sion?

Originally posted by AncientPower
All: Cutting through a small army of Sith before killing three Sith Lords amped by a ritual and the dark side energies of Freedon Nadd's Tomb.


Source.

Originally posted by AncientPower
All: Being highly proficient in numerous lightsaber forms and many Force techniques, before becoming the Jedi High Council members of the rebuilt Jedi Order, an order which flourished under their teachings.

Doesn't hold a candle to stalemating/holding their own against Kanan who's augmentation should logically be superior to their own and who's skill was great enough to beat the GI in a focused state.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Brianna: Instantly blitzing the five Handmaidens despite them all being highly trained precognitive duelists, before dueling evenly with Atris. A master of numerous lightsaber forms, including Juyo, who had the combat techniques of dozens of Sith holocrons and is confirmed to be a greater master of lightsaber combat than even Master Kavar.

The first feat doesn't hold a candle to stalemating/holding their own against Kanan who is a superhumanly augmented Force user capable of dodging/blocking hundreds of blaster bolts.

Quote for Atris being > Master Kavar?

Originally posted by AncientPower
Visas: Being the fourth most powerful and skilled Sith in the entire Triumvirate, an elite sect of assassins who were highly trained war veterans as Revanchists before gaining the esoteric techniques of the Trayus Academy.

Means nothing unless you can provide a number for the Sith in the Triumvirate and the capabilities of the most powerful Sith below Visas.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Atton: Defeating Darth Sion, a Sith Assassin with decades of Jedi slaughtering experience, whilst on a colossal geyser of dark side energy.

As far as I'm aware it was Meetra Surik and not Atton that defeated Darth Sion.

Just checked. You used cut content and potential companion choices for nearly every feat you listed.

Originally posted by nfactor1995
Atton fought and defeated Darth Sion?

It was in TSLRCM, Atton could win and you get a good ending, or Atton loses and dies at your feet. Atton only defeats Sion once and fleas however, so it's not as impressive as the Exile defeating Sion multiple times.

Cut content and non canon events.

And don't bother with the Atris > Kavar quote AP. Already know you're going to base it off Atris going to Katarr when Kavar didn't despite the fact that there could be countless other reasons for Kavar not attending.

This coming from the guy that uses feats from the n canon version of TFU? Delightful

What's wrong with the Dxun feat Synd?

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
This coming from the guy that uses feats from the n canon version of TFU? Delightful

?

The novel, game and comic are all C canon as far as I'm aware. Do you have some knowledge you wish to share Xtasy?

Originally posted by Solar Power
What's wrong with the Dxun feat Synd?

Which one are you referring to?

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Which one are you referring to?

The companions busting through the Sith Camp and Freedon Nadd's Temple and fighting the 3 Sith Lords.

Atton solos even if team two had the GI, let's be honest.

While I appreciate the enthusiasm you bring to the forums with your opinions Ant, I'd unfortunately have to beg to differ.

Originally posted by Solar Power
The companions busting through the Sith Camp and Freedon Nadd's Temple and fighting the 3 Sith Lords.

No that's fine but nothing states it was Visas by herself or that particular companion. You understand the Prima Guide simply suggests the best way to accomplish the missions within the game right?

On topic, the Exile's apprentices got a lot of unconventional stuff they can throw out against the Inquisitors, like Visas's blinding technique, Atton's mind blocking technique, and Brianna's Echani Arts, and each apprentice has experience fighting trained force sensitives. I doubt Inquisitors win easily if at all.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
While I appreciate the enthusiasm you bring to the forums with your opinions Ant, I'd unfortunately have to beg to differ.
cringe

Have they demonstrated using these abilities successfully on rival Force users on the level of power of the Inquisitors?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
cringe

I want to thank you for speaking your truth to me Ant. Sincerely.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
No that's fine but nothing states it was Visas by herself or that particular companion. You understand the Prima Guide simply suggests the best way to accomplish the missions within the game right?

Oh, I wasn't going off the Prima Guide, I just thought it was logical that each Companion has the capability to perform the feat since they all could be assigned, and the leader of the trio the Exile picks has to be Atton, Visas, Brianna, Bao-Dur or Mira.

Given that the Dxun mission takes place at least halfway through the game, and the Exile is being shaped by Kreia's teachings, I always thought the closest to canon pickings were the picks that Kreia approved of, which would be Canderous, Bao-Dur, and then whomever you pick as leader, which to me would seem like everyone mentioned above can perform it. It's kinda cheap to say all companions should get the credit of performing the feat, but there's no real way of knowing since it's more a game mechanic than anything.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Have they demonstrated using these abilities successfully on rival Force users on the level of power of the Inquisitors?

Visas managed to blind mid-game Exile, Atton killed jedi in the past thanks to his mind-blocking technique when he was a sith assassin, and Brianna took out her sisters and pushed Atris hard enough for her to resort to taking her out with the force rather than finish the encounter via dueling.

Originally posted by Solar Power
Oh, I wasn't going off the Prima Guide, I just thought it was logical that each Companion has the capability to perform the feat since they all could be assigned, and the leader of the trio the Exile picks has to be Atton, Visas, Brianna, Bao-Dur or Mira.

Given that the Dxun mission takes place at least halfway through the game, and the Exile is being shaped by Kreia's teachings, I always thought the closest to canon pickings were the picks that Kreia approved of, which would be Canderous, Bao-Dur, and then whomever you pick as leader, which to me would seem like everyone mentioned above can perform it. It's kinda cheap to say all companions should get the credit of performing the feat, but there's no real way of knowing since it's more a game mechanic than anything.

Yeah, that's fair.

Edit: Oh nvrm, double checked.

Originally posted by Solar Power
Visas managed to blind mid-game Exile, Atton killed jedi in the past thanks to his mind-blocking technique when he was a sith assassin, and Brianna took out her sisters and pushed Atris hard enough for her to resort to taking her out with the force rather than finish the encounter via dueling.

How powerful was midgame Exile?

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Source.

Go and actually play the game and get back to me.





Nadd's tomb is located on Dxun, an extreme dark side nexus:











Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Doesn't hold a candle to stalemating/holding their own against Kanan who's augmentation should logically be superior to their own and who's skill was great enough to beat the GI in a focused state.

What in the hell does any of that mean? The Lost Jedi are more masterful in both the Force and Lightsaber combat. Hence the paragraph.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
The first feat doesn't hold a candle to stalemating/holding their own against Kanan who is a superhumanly augmented Force user capable of dodging/blocking hundreds of blaster bolts.

Quote for Atris being > Master Kavar?

The Echani are 'superhumanly augmented' precogs who have some of the greatest Martial arts in all of the mythos. So no, not really.





Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Means nothing unless you can provide a number for the Sith in the Triumvirate and the capabilities of the most powerful Sith below Visas.











Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
As far as I'm aware it was Meetra Surik and not Atton that defeated Darth Sion.

The Cut-Content is reflected by the original game script, before time constraints forced Obsidian to cut out content to make it for a release. Besides which, this is all Legends content, nothing is aftually Canon. Your appeals to invalidity aren't going to work.

The Lost Jedi stomp.

I still find this quote extremely bizarre, since Kavar is...ya know a Jedi GUARDIAN.

...Which...ya know, their main focus IS LIGHTSABER COMBAT!

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
How powerful was midgame Exile?

I believe this was the Exile after completing the first planet, so honestly it's up to whichever planet you decide to do first. I always suspected Nar Shadaa was the first planet since that was the planet Atton mentioned on Citadel Station, but there are less obvious hints to other planets like Onderon and Dantooine on Telos as well, so it's up in the air.

Korriban is the only planet I would logically strike out, considering that Kreia bars you from entering the hidden Sith tomb for not being strong enough, and you would somehow have to beat Sion once, which doesn't really make sense for early game Exile to do.

So on Dantooine the most impressive feat is defending the Jedi Enclave from mercenaries, clearing a Kinrath Cave, and exploring the Jedi Temple which involves fighting hordes of laigreks.
On Nar Shadaa, the Exile fights through a bar of mercs, and clan of Gand hunters. She fights an Exchange Boss's Ubese guards, and storms G0-T0's yacht, which had some of the most dangerous bounty hunters in the galaxy.
On Dxun, the Exile kills a bunch of beasts, including a Zakkeg, which is noted to have hide comparable in thickness to durasteel plating. She also learns beast control here, nothing special, but just fyi. She kills some Onderon guards and beast riders on Onderon.

The Exile has her Telos feats too, the most impressive of which I would say is surviving a shuttle crash and then proceeding to cut through a small army of Czerka mercs and beat a tank droid and then tanking another shuttle crash and shortly afterwards beating 3 HK-51 droids.

It's notable that the Exile did not have a lightsaber in game when fighting Visas, but I believe Sunrazer has corrected in saying that the Kotor II game files says she does (citation needed).

Not a bad thread idea, tbh. The Lost Jedi should be better, but then again it's KOTOR II so \_(._.)_/

Originally posted by Zenwolf
I still find this quote extremely bizarre, since Kavar is...ya know a Jedi GUARDIAN.

...Which...ya know, their main focus IS LIGHTSABER COMBAT!

Which doesn't preclude them from being so good because they're among the most powerful Jedi Masters in the galaxy.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
I still find this quote extremely bizarre, since Kavar is...ya know a Jedi GUARDIAN.

...Which...ya know, their main focus IS LIGHTSABER COMBAT!

Lol yea, Kavar was pretty strange all things considered. His lightsaber skills aren't as good as the other masters', yet he dual wields for whatever reason and is as you mentioned a famed jedi guardian .

Originally posted by AncientPower
Which doesn't preclude them from being so good because they're among the most powerful Jedi Masters in the galaxy.

I just felt some wires were crossed, I'm not saying Kavar can't be powerful....but him not being as good as the others in saber combat is just weird.

It's 90% a typo, but canon nonetheless.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
I just felt some wires were crossed, I'm not saying Kavar can't be powerful....but him not being as good as the others in saber combat is just weird.

Considering that contradicts the game itself, wouldn't that be considered secondary at best and overruled? I meant that this part specifically is contradicted by the game: if the Exile is a Jedi Guardian, he refers to you as being part of the same group of specialized Jedi Knights as him; and seeing as he's the one that teaches the Exile/Meetra the seventh form/Juyo, which is restricted only to the most advanced and capable duelists going by other sides like Jedi vs Sith, and he's the "famed Jedi Guardian", the implications are he's the Windu of the Jedi Order during the war.

I mean its like saying from that source Windu "isn't as noted for his dueling skills but makes up for it with his Force powers" is kind of wonky given what we know about him; same applies for Kavar.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Go and actually play the game and get back to me.





Nadd's tomb is located on Dxun, an extreme dark side nexus:













What in the hell does any of that mean? The Lost Jedi are more masterful in both the Force and Lightsaber combat. Hence the paragraph.



The Echani are 'superhumanly augmented' precogs who have some of the greatest Martial arts in all of the mythos. So no, not really.



















The Cut-Content is reflected by the original game script, before time constraints forced Obsidian to cut out content to make it for a release. Besides which, this is all Legends content, nothing is aftually Canon. Your appeals to invalidity aren't going to work.

The Lost Jedi stomp.

Yes, I looked into. You neglected to mention they accomplished this with a team of other companions at their back.

Fair enough. Something Visas herself would benefit from.

I'm saying that blitzing the handmaidens is not superior to dueling evenly with somebody who's blocking/dodging hundreds of blaster bolts.

"The Echani are superhumanly augmented"

Quote. And then please provide the extent of their augmentation.

Cut content is non canon, doesn't matter which way you spin it.

We go by the levels of canon established within continuity when debating Legends.

@GhostRavager: It's not a direct contradiction, so I'd say nah.

Given Vrook is clearly a Senior High Council member, like Vandar clearly is, thus would be Kavar's better anyway. And that Atris had already started using Sith holocrons . . . It isn't very weird at all in that context.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Cut content is non canon, doesn't matter which way you spin it.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Given Vrook is clearly a Senior High Council member, like Vandar clearly is, thus would be Kavar's better anyway. And that Atris had already started using Sith holocrons . . . It isn't very weird at all in that context.

In Force? Sure I can buy that.

But sabers? I'm not really seeing it add up.

It's whatever though I guess. /Shrug, it still kinda makes my face scrunch a little in confusion.

Originally posted by Solar Power
I believe this was the Exile after completing the first planet, so honestly it's up to whichever planet you decide to do first. I always suspected Nar Shadaa was the first planet since that was the planet Atton mentioned on Citadel Station, but there are less obvious hints to other planets like Onderon and Dantooine on Telos as well, so it's up in the air.

Korriban is the only planet I would logically strike out, considering that Kreia bars you from entering the hidden Sith tomb for not being strong enough, and you would somehow have to beat Sion once, which doesn't really make sense for early game Exile to do.

So on Dantooine the most impressive feat is defending the Jedi Enclave from mercenaries, clearing a Kinrath Cave, and exploring the Jedi Temple which involves fighting hordes of laigreks.
On Nar Shadaa, the Exile fights through a bar of mercs, and clan of Gand hunters. She fights an Exchange Boss's Ubese guards, and storms G0-T0's yacht, which had some of the most dangerous bounty hunters in the galaxy.
On Dxun, the Exile kills a bunch of beasts, including a Zakkeg, which is noted to have hide comparable in thickness to durasteel plating. She also learns beast control here, nothing special, but just fyi. She kills some Onderon guards and beast riders on Onderon.

The Exile has her Telos feats too, the most impressive of which I would say is surviving a shuttle crash and then proceeding to cut through a small army of Czerka mercs and beat a tank droid and then tanking another shuttle crash and shortly afterwards beating 3 HK-51 droids.

It's notable that the Exile did not have a lightsaber in game when fighting Visas, but I believe Sunrazer has corrected in saying that the Kotor II game files says she does (citation needed).

And the Exile's companions powers could affect her to some degree at that point?

Oh, I forgot to mention that the Telos feats and some of the first planet feats (I'll clarify which ones you want) were done with companions.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66


Got a quote?

Originally posted by Solar Power
Oh, I forgot to mention that the Telos feats and some of the first planet feats (I'll clarify which ones you want) were done with companions.

Ah, gotcha. Thanks.

I'd wager over half of KMC uses them, tbh.

I do.

Be a man and take on AP - don't hide behind that BS.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
And the Exile's companions powers could affect her to some degree at that point?

There's some game mechanics I believe, Kreia and the Exile's force bonds are notable, and would help in the achievement of some of the feats I would imagine. I don't think she benefits from other companions aside from the whole "you were draining your companions the entire time" plot point.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I'd wager over half of KMC uses them, tbh.

I do.

Be a man and take on AP - don't hide behind that BS.

I don't. But then does that mean deleted scenes from movies are usable as feats?

Deleted scenes from films featured in DVD releases are confirmed to be canon, actually.

Yeah is there anything other than quotes that apply very specifically to either G-Canon in Legends, or Canon? Or in other words is there anything other than quotes that specifically apply to deleted content that came straight from the people with absolute authority over the continuity? Because the KOTOR II writers are not George Lucas in Legends or the Story Group in Canon, and their deleted material should not be held to the same standards of validity as material that came from the heads of continuity.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Deleted scenes from films featured in DVD releases are confirmed to be canon, actually.

Well except for Shaak Ti dying to Grevious.

lmfao, dmb popping out of no where trashing selenial

Originally posted by Solar Power
There's some game mechanics I believe, Kreia and the Exile's force bonds are notable, and would help in the achievement of some of the feats I would imagine. I don't think she benefits from other companions aside from the whole "you were draining your companions the entire time" plot point.

Sorry, are you referring to the Exile's force bonds aiding her companions in their ability to affect her?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Deleted scenes from films featured in DVD releases are confirmed to be canon, actually.

And the TCW movie?

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Well except for Shaak Ti dying to Grevious.

That would be a retcon, right?

What scene are you referring to? The rancor fight?

That was canonized in the TCW Visual Guide.

*Clears throat*

Well, no. I'm referring to something else. But all deleted scenes within the TCW movie are canon?

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Sorry, are you referring to the Exile's force bonds aiding her companions in their ability to affect her?

I don't know so well myself, the force bonds concept is kinda wonky. To my understanding, the Exile was able to feel the force again initially because she started to unknowingly drain her companions (due to her wound status), who are also force sensitive, and the more bonds she forms, the stronger she becomes, in addition to the more opponents she kills. I brought it up because her bonds with Kreia and the rest of her companions, to my knowledge, granted her her connection to the force again, despite her cutting herself off on Malachor.

If you have the time, this video kinda explains it:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd1KxGfQAoo

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
*Clears throat*

Well, no. I'm referring to something else. But all deleted scenes within the TCW movie are canon?
Not necessarily. Only the six films' deleted scenes are definitely canon.

I'm not sure about the deleted scenes. Maybe ask Pablo?

Thanks my friend. You're very knowledgeable in this field and have proved a great help in revealing AP's lies of omission.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
lmfao, dmb popping out of no where trashing selenial
It's nothing personal with Sel as I'm actively trying to avoid that kinda hostility, I just really don't take her using quotes that apply to cut content coming from the absolute heads of each continuity as adequate proof that the same holds true for cut content originating from those lower in the totem pole.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Not necessarily. Only the six films' deleted scenes are definitely canon.

I'm not sure about the deleted scenes. Maybe ask Pablo?

Alright, can you provide me with the source that says the 6 films deleted scenes are definitely canon ( unless retconned ).

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Yes, I looked into. You neglected to mention they accomplished this with a team of other companions at their back.

Fair enough. Something Visas herself would benefit from.

I'm saying that blitzing the handmaidens is not superior to dueling evenly with somebody who's blocking/dodging hundreds of blaster bolts.

"The Echani are superhumanly augmented"

Quote. And then please provide the extent of their augmentation.

Cut content is non canon, doesn't matter which way you spin it.

We go by the levels of canon established within continuity when debating Legends.

You realise it can be the three of them together, this is no differemt than using Outlander feats for the other player classes.

Visas turned to the light side of the Force under the Exile's teaching, becoming even more powerful for it, so no:



It is a speedblitz feat for the handmaiden, against high tier martial artists.



You invented the rules did you? 'Cut content' is sourced by the game's files and the script, so no, you can stop trying to avoid a concession.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Alright, can you provide me with the source that says the 6 films deleted scenes are definitely canon ( unless retconned ).
Nah, but Selenial posted it in a blog she wrote a while back, tbh.

AP. I'll concede the argument if you give me the quote saying the deleted scenes for the OT and PT are canon.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Thanks my friend. You're very knowledgeable in this field and have proved a great help in revealing AP's lies of omission.

LMFAO, now I'm just going to end your career.

Lmao.

I guess that's a no on the quote.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Lmao.

You called me a liar because you completely lack a comprehension of the way the game works.

Do you have an actual argument for the inquisitors or are you wasting my time?

Originally posted by AncientPower
You realise it can be the three of them together, this is no differemt than using Outlander feats for the other player classes.

Visas turned to the light side of the Force under the Exile's teaching, becoming even more powerful for it, so no:



It is a speedblitz feat for the handmaiden, against high tier martial artists.



You invented the rules did you? 'Cut content' is sourced by the game's files and the script, so no, you can stop trying to avoid a concession.

That doesn't change the fact that they had other companions to tell help them accomplish the feat.

It says she calmed her hatred not that she stopped using the Darkside. See Galen Marek and his use of Sith powers despite releasing his hatred.

And that's fine. I asked where it was stated they were superhumanly augmented though as you claimed. And just so you can't deny it or edit it after the fact: "The Echani are superhumanly augmented precogs who have some of the greatest Martial arts in all of the mythos. So no, not really." - AP, 2016.

That doesn't change the fact that it never happened within continuity and thus has no bearing on what the character's would be capable of.

Originally posted by AncientPower
You called me a liar because you completely lack a comprehension of the way the game works.

Do you have an actual argument for the inquisitors or are you wasting my time?

I already presented them. Unless the Exile's party has feats that are superior to lifting up a Lightside temple that was visibly resisting their influence and matching the power of a ships thrusters the Inquisitors are more powerful. None of the feats you presented that aren't cut content scale up to that level of power.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Nah, but Selenial posted it in a blog she wrote a while back, tbh.

What's AP's blog called?

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
What's AP's blog called?
AP isn't Selenial, lmfao.

Lmao. xD

What's "Sel's" blog called?

There were only three of them there, what the hell are you smoking?

Except she is canonically redeemed by the Exile. Have you even played Kotor II?

I like how you decided to ignore 'precogs', you baffoon.

The C-continuity died, welcome to 2014. Yet again you've failed to make an argument bar appeals to invalidity, the script is Legends and so are the original game files. Cut Content merely restores what was meant to be there.

Concede or make a worthy argument.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Lmao. xD

What's "Sel's" blog called?
Something about why cut-content is canon.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Yet again you've failed to make an argument bar appeals to invalidity, the script is Legends and so are the original game files. Cut Content merely restores what was meant to be there.
What a think AP is saying here is that the cut-content is technically apart of the actual game. If you buy the game, you likewise have access to the cut-content via going into the script. It's just that the game developers were rushed to release it by Christmas, and thus there's no models and whatnot for it. It is there though.

Avellone also praised the cut-content modders who added the incomplete files and thanked them for finishing the game, I believe.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I already presented them. Unless the Exile's party has feats that are superior to lifting up a Lightside temple that was visibly resisting their influence and matching the power of a ships thrusters the Inquisitors are more powerful. None of the feats you presented that aren't cut content scale up to that level of power.

In other words you're wasting my time.

'Absence of evidence' arguments don't even remotely register here, when busting through hordes of Sith before killing three Sith Lords in the center of an extreme dark side nexus is so far above those feats that I don't see how you can possibly argue otherwise.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Thanks my friend. You're very knowledgeable in this field and have proved a great help in revealing AP's lies of omission.

D'aw, I'm just a guy who spent too much summer time replaying Kotor II. AP's got me beat for external sources and dedication. It was my pleasure to inform you about the stuff.

Ah, that one's actually my fault. You wrote "All: ______." And I thought that meant all of them individually accomplished the feat ( I.E. it was a mission that could be accomplished by one among several of the companions individually ) but you meant as a group.

Too poor to buy it. Haven't seen a play through. Quote it for me or provide me a video link.

I'm aware of their precog. I took that into account in my response. Now where are the examples of their vaunted "superhuman augmentation."

The contradictions that existed in Legends still exist after the Disney buyout. The Legend canon ranking system is NECESSARY for debate otherwise everything would be chaos with everybody claiming whatever feat/quote from whatever source to back whatever stance they wanted.

Why would I concede? The best feat you've offered is the 3 of them taking on a group of Sith on Dxun and Brianna blitzing 5 handmaidens neither of which compare to dueling evenly with somebody who dodged/deflected hundreds of blaster bolts and the Force feats I mentioned earlier. Especially because we don't know the methods by which the group accomplished the defeat of aforementioned Sith.

I'm not going to grant your request simply because you keep asking in a repetitive fashion.

Frankly, this is something that I've noticed a lot with you, DD, and I'm sure you'll even agree. You frequently debate against characters that you don't actually know about, nor the context behind their feats and accolades. Thus, half of the debate is essentially you just asking questions - and the other is you misinterpreting what you think you know since you don't actually know. For the future, you should read up on the characters before investing yourself in a debate.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Something about why cut-content is canon.

This? http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t630797.html

yes

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Frankly, this is something that I've noticed a lot with you, DD, and I'm sure you'll even agree. You frequently debate against characters that you don't actually know about, nor the context behind their feats and accolades. Thus, half of the debate is essentially you just asking questions - and the other is you misinterpreting what you think you know since you don't actually know. For the future, you should read up on the characters before investing yourself in a debate.

Eh I think you overrate the knowledge one needs to actually debate. All you need to have is the knowledge of the oppositions best feats/capabilities. It only gets tricky in cases like these where cut content becomes relevant.

Also it's not like anybody else would defend the other side and it only takes a few answered questions on the opposing debaters part. Shouldn't be a big inconvenience for them given they waste a majority of their time here already.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
yes

Thanks.

-

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Ah, that one's actually my fault. You wrote "All: ______." And I thought that meant all of them individually accomplished the feat ( I.E. it was a mission that could be accomplished by one among several of the companions individually ) but you meant as a group.

Too poor to buy it. Haven't seen a play through. Quote it for me or provide me a video link.

I'm aware of their precog. I took that into account in my response. Now where are the examples of their vaunted "superhuman augmentation."

The contradictions that existed in Legends still exist after the Disney buyout. The Legend canon ranking system is NECESSARY for debate otherwise everything would be chaos with everybody claiming whatever feat/quote from whatever source to back whatever stance they wanted.

Why would I concede? The best feat you've offered is the 3 of them taking on a group of Sith on Dxun and Brianna blitzing 5 handmaidens neither of which compare to dueling evenly with somebody who dodged/deflected hundreds of blaster bolts and the Force feats I mentioned earlier. Especially because we don't know the methods by which the group accomplished the defeat of aforementioned Sith.

I'm not going to grant your request simply because you keep asking in a repetitive fashion.



Yet you're still ignoring that it is part of KOTOR II.

That best feat is actually combat applicable, unlike a few shiny TK feats. Any argument that we 'don't know how they did it', is rendered moot by a quote I already provided. They used 'destructive fury' to take out the Sith camp before storming inside, dispelling dark side influence and killing the amped Sith Lords.

Destroying an entire Sith camp and killing three Sith Lords on a planet noted to be an extreme dark side site, centered on the tomb of Freedon Nadd, which is itself stated to be 'living' with Freedon Nadd's energies, is far more impressive.

Tbh I appreciate that you're keeping the responses minimal. Way less of a pain to respond to. Invited to a Skype call though so I'll be off for the rest of the night.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Yet you're still ignoring that it is part of KOTOR II.

That best feat is actually combat applicable, unlike a few shiny TK feats. Any argument that we 'don't know how they did it', is rendered moot by a quote I already provided. They used 'destructive fury' to take out the Sith camp before storming inside, dispelling dark side influence and killing the amped Sith Lords.

Destroying an entire Sith camp and killing three Sith Lords on a planet noted to be an extreme dark side site, centered on the tomb of Freedon Nadd, which is itself stated to be 'living' with Freedon Nadd's energies, is far more impressive.

If it was discarded content and not part of the continuity then yes. It didn't happen and therefore cannot be used to argue for the character.

Your destructive fury quote references tactics you should use during that portion of the mission with particular characters because the guide is made for telling you the easiest path through the game.

Unless we know the means by which they accomplished this I don't believe defeating Triumvirate acolytes on a DS nexus is better then matching a guy who blocked dodged hundreds of blaster bolts and having TK in the 100 ton + range.

Team 1

The inquistors are trained to kill padawan level jedi.

Originally posted by Dread Dark
Team 1

The inquistors are trained to kill padawan level jedi. Proof?

IT IS IN THE SCRIPT. What part of this do you fail to comprehend?

You're making a fallacious appeal to circumstances when we know that they 'left the Sith camp in ruins' so fast that a Mandalorian scout had to run to catch up to them, even thought he was barely thirty meters behind them. A Sith camp with 'hordes' of Sith enemies, and we know that what they achieved in the tomb was enough for that same scout, a veteran of the Mando Wars, to be incapable of describing what they'd managed to achieve.

We also have the context that the Sith Lords(not acolytes LMFAO) were amped to a point where they could barely handle their powers, and that the party was massively hindered, by the pervading energies of Freedon Nadd's tomb.

It's far more impressive than your hilarious lowballing makes it out to be.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
Proof?

By there plain performance against Ezra and Kanan. (Who both arent all that great)

THey also got stomped hard by Ahsoka.

And were beaten by an out of prime Maul.

The game script. So is the non canonical Darkside ending. What part of this do you fail to comprehend?

"we know that they 'left the Sith camp in ruins' so fast that a Mandalorian scout had to run to catch up to them, even thought he was barely thirty meters behind them."

Is this another in game timing calc like Nova uses?

"a veteran of the Mando Wars, to be incapable of describing what they'd managed to achieve."

Citation needed.

"We also have the context that the Sith Lords(not acolytes LMFAO)"

Dude. They're Darkside acolytes of the Triumvirate and all infinitely inferior. It doesn't matter what you call them, the fact of the matter is they're fodder.

" were amped to a point where they could barely handle their powers, and that the party was massively hindered, by the pervading energies of Freedon Nadd's tomb."

Citation needed.

"It's far more impressive than your hilarious lowballing makes it out to be."

Perhaps it is. But perhaps its equally less impressive then your hilarious fan wanking is making it out to be.

Originally posted by Dread Dark
By there plain performance against Ezra and Kanan. (Who both arent all that great)

THey also got stomped hard by Ahsoka.

And were beaten by an out of prime Maul.

By what standard are they "not all that great?" :/

An excellent feat for Ahsoka to be sure.

Maul was stated to be more powerful then ever and his technical skill shouldn't have degraded all that much if at all given his level of combative effectiveness in SoD after around a decade of not using a lightsaber and the fact that he at least had the opportunity to practice given he made a new lightsaber on the run and was in hiding for some time enough to establish several bases throughout the Galaxy going by recent trailers.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
By what standard are they "not all that great?" :/

An excellent feat for Ahsoka to be sure.

Maul was stated to be more powerful then ever and his technical skill shouldn't have degraded all that much if at all given his level of combative effectiveness in SoD after around a decade of not using a lightsaber and the fact that he at least had the opportunity to practice given he made a new lightsaber on the run and was in hiding for some time enough to establish several bases throughout the Galaxy going by recent trailers.

Well by standards I would consider the fact that Kanan, is a Jedi Padawan droppout. Who didnt pick up his dusty saber until Ezra shows himself.

Ezra had potential at the time, but doesnt light a candle to Kanan. Which is scraping the bottom of the barrel here.

I say this reasoning because if the Inquistors are having trouble killing both of them. Who are Jedi padawan level, I heavily doubt they can best the Exiles team at all.

I agree with that statement.

I can take that statement as such, Maul hasnt seen much action since the Ahsoka novel. But you have to admit his lack of action makes him slighty less than SoD.

Originally posted by Dread Dark
Well by standards I would consider the fact that Kanan, is a Jedi Padawan droppout. Who didnt pick up his dusty saber until Ezra shows himself.

Ezra had potential at the time, but doesnt light a candle to Kanan. Which is scraping the bottom of the barrel here.

I say this reasoning because if the Inquistors are having trouble killing both of them. Who are Jedi padawan level, I heavily doubt they can best the Exiles team at all.

I agree with that statement.

I can take that statement as such, Maul hasnt seen much action since the Ahsoka novel. But you have to admit his lack of action makes him slighty less than SoD.

Kanan was a padawan on the front lines of the Clone Wars where, as mentioned in the Kanan comics, many did not survive during their time there. As with Maul we see that while not using your lightsaber for an extended period can be detrimental it does not effect Force users to the same extent it would a non Force user.

I would agree that Ezra isn't Kanan level but he's impressive in his own right having cleared a collapsed cave in in the comics and managing to provided a challenge for Kanan in spars.

As a team they seemed to have the advantage over them with Kanan and Ezra being forced to give ground when facing them.

I don't know tbh. His physical degradation paired with his lack of sparring with a real opponent pitted against his power growth has me iffy either way. For now I have him slightly below but that might change in the near future.

I can attest to that point. The Clone Wars was a death trap and surviving as a padawan, as a SW combatant is impressive. It just doesnt help that the FB and SS were trained to kill those kind of fighters.

Putting them on the defensive proves the statement above, because of the algorithm of there training. It doesnt help that Palps held them back from being greater.

In a nutshell they are scrub killer tier, that has a problem killing scrubs that are slightly better than most scrubs. :P

Let us hope Maul can compinsate against Kenobi.

Why not? I mean obviously the Inquisitors training would be restricted so they wouldn't become a threat but the fact that they were sent out in confidence to end these types of threats means they were probably meant to be above this level combatively. They likely COULD take on higher level Jedi but the risk of losing a member of the Inquisitorius would be too high for Palpatine which is why he'd send Vader instead.

Are you referring to the Inquisitors putting Kanan and Ezra on the defensive? If so, while Ezra's impressive given his level of training he's still not going to bridge the gap between combatants of the Inquisitors level even with Kanan at his side.

They are scrub tier killers, yes. But likely higher by a fair degree as overall combatants given their power and ability. I wouldn't call Kanan a scrub and without Kanan Ezra wouldn't last long against either as demonstrated in his first encounter with them in S2.

Yep. I'm actually excited to see Kenobi in the new season.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
The game script. So is the non canonical Darkside ending. What part of this do you fail to comprehend?

"we know that they 'left the Sith camp in ruins' so fast that a Mandalorian scout had to run to catch up to them, even thought he was barely thirty meters behind them."

Is this another in game timing calc like Nova uses?

"a veteran of the Mando Wars, to be incapable of describing what they'd managed to achieve."

Citation needed.

"We also have the context that the Sith Lords(not acolytes LMFAO)"

Dude. They're Darkside acolytes of the Triumvirate and all infinitely inferior. It doesn't matter what you call them, the fact of the matter is they're fodder.

" were amped to a point where they could barely handle their powers, and that the party was massively hindered, by the pervading energies of Freedon Nadd's tomb."

Citation needed.

"It's far more impressive than your hilarious lowballing makes it out to be."

Perhaps it is. But perhaps its equally less impressive then your hilarious fan wanking is making it out to be.

Source that the game script and files are non-canonical? No, I don't mean your opinion. The script is clearly canon in terms of Legends.

No, the scout that shows them the way to the Tomb of Freedon Nadd says so himself.





They're not acolytes, they're Sith Lords with enough mastery of the dark side to perform a ritual to absorb some of the power of Freedon Nadd's Tomb. Stop lowballing them, they're each well above the elite Sith Assassins and even the Bladeborn, who have at least ten kills against Force Users in combat each.

Apparently I have to repeat myself.









For clarity, the moon of Dxun is an 'extreme' dark side site, one even more powerful than the Valley of the Dark Lords on Korriban. The Tomb of Freedon Nadd is the epicenter of said dark side nexus.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Source that the game script and files are non-canonical? No, I don't mean your opinion. The script is clearly canon in terms of Legends.

No, the scout that shows them the way to the Tomb of Freedon Nadd says so himself.





They're not acolytes, they're Sith Lords with enough mastery of the dark side to perform a ritual to absorb some of the power of Freedon Nadd's Tomb. Stop lowballing them, they're each well above the elite Sith Assassins and even the Bladeborn, who have at least ten kills against Force Users in combat each.

Apparently I have to repeat myself.









For clarity, the moon of Dxun is an 'extreme' dark side site, one even more powerful than the Valley of the Dark Lords on Korriban. The Tomb of Freedon Nadd is the epicenter of said dark side nexus.

No, I'm saying that the non canon version of events is listed in the script yet it clearly did not occur within continuity.

Where does it say the scout was only 30 meters behind them?

He complimented them on their fighting skills which makes sense given the feat itself.

Being capable of siphoning power from a tomb does nothing to tell us their level of power aside from being above the average fodder level schmuck.

Ruusan amped Kyle just as much as it did Jerec did it not? If that's the case it would make your source invalid.

Except for the fact that Leland Chee has claimed that different points of view are all valid, thus given the Script is Canon, it is just one more version of how events could have gone down.

The thirty meters is a rough estimate from the cave to the Tomb's entrance, which doesn't really matter, the fact is that they left a Sith camp containing 'hordes' of Sith in 'ruins' so quickly that the Scout in question had to run to catch up to them at the tomb's entrance.

Are you seriously suggesting random fodder can perform complex Sith rituals on dark side energy? They're Sith Lords under Darth Nihilus. They are greater than all the Sith below them due to sheer prowess, in an order stated to have wiped out tens of thousands of Jedi across the galaxy.

Wrong, Jerec was amplifying himself with Ruusan's Valley of the Jedi, to become the most powerful Sith ever. Kyle Katarn aided by the spirits of the Jedi severed Jerec's connection to the Force.

Points of view? Sounds like you're taking one of his statements out of context. Did he say that the non canon version of events actually exemplifies the capabilities of the characters depicted therein?

"which doesn't really matter" Yeah, I'm sure the exact time and distance it took for the Scout to meet back up with them isn't something you want to delve too deeply into. Unfortunately for you it's something that is of particular interest to me. If you would kindly provide the video of this particular mission I'll look into the details myself.

Complex ritual? How is the draining equivalent of siphoning off gas from a tank a "complex ritual?"

Regardless Johun Othone oversaw the construction of a Jedi Memorial on Ruusan yet despite other Darkside sites of lesser note causing Obi Wan Kenobi to grow weak to the point he was unable to walk Johun Othone a Jedi who was almost defeated by a non Force user was never described to have come under any ill effects from an "EXTREME SITE." Lmao.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Team 1.

I apologise for mixing up Leland Chee and Steve Sansweet, but therein lies the point, even if there are some contradictions it doesn't render the former non-canon. Just like variations in the script aren't rendered non-canon because of the game. It is merely another 'nugget of truth'.

If you want to go and look for a video, be my guest.

They are stated to be partaking in a ritual to channel the power of Freedon Nadd's energies. A ritual that unleashes so much power that it kills a fourth Sith Lord.

Wow, it is almost as if you've figured out that a Force Nexus can change over the span of a thousand years. In other words, the Thought Bomb contained the spirits of thousands of Sith and Jedi. Spirits which weren't released until Johun was long dead.

Originally posted by AncientPower
I apologise for mixing up Leland Chee and Steve Sansweet, but therein lies the point, even if there are some contradictions it doesn't render the former non-canon. Just like variations in the script aren't rendered non-canon because of the game. It is merely another 'nugget of truth'.

If you want to go and look for a video, be my guest.

They are stated to be partaking in a ritual to channel the power of Freedon Nadd's energies. A ritual that unleashes so much power that it kills a fourth Sith Lord.

Wow, it is almost as if you've figured out that a Force Nexus can change over the span of a thousand years. In other words, the Thought Bomb contained the spirits of thousands of Sith and Jedi. Spirits which weren't released until Johun was long dead.

"but therein lies the point, even if there are some contradictions it doesn't render the former non-canon."

That's exactly what is does! If there are contradictions then only one depiction of events can be in fact canon and apart of the continuity as a whole.

It's not on me to provide evidence for your claims.

So essentially they're acting as batteries siphoning energy from a power source and one of them got overloaded. Lel. I don't see how failing so badly in a simple draining ritual that one of their members is killed makes these scrubs top tier Sith Lords.

The spirits were never released that was the entire point of Kyle Katarn going to the Valley of the Jedi. To free the trapped spirits. It was even a prophesized event.

With that, I bid you a goodnight.

Did you even bother to read the statement? Because you just ignored the entire thing. Admit that you don't have an argument or actually make one that doesn't ramble on about 'hundreds of blaster bolts'.

It. Is. A. Ritual. Stop making claims about something you've never even seen before. Your pathetic lowballing isn't winning you this debate.

Thanks for conceding your point regarding Johun Othone.

You've conceded on almost everything in this thread and are clearly only arguing for the sake of continuing the argument.

The Lost Jedi stomp, just as I've proven throughout this thread.

It wasn't even a "simple draining ritual", they were resurrecting Freedon Nadd mmm

Why is Syn trying to use the Inquisitor's opening the temple as a TK feat? It's not, the temple opens by itself, they just forced it to.

Exactly, they forcibly lifted up the temple when it was actively resisting their efforts.

Anyway the Lost Jedi are still better, the Eight Brother in particular is a serious weak link.

They didn't lift it.

Nah they did.

Those temples open by themselves when activated. They just forcibly activated them.

For the Jedi, for the Inquisitors looks like they had to forcibly lift it.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Did you even bother to read the statement? Because you just ignored the entire thing. Admit that you don't have an argument or actually make one that doesn't ramble on about 'hundreds of blaster bolts'.

It. Is. A. Ritual. Stop making claims about something you've never even seen before. Your pathetic lowballing isn't winning you this debate.

Thanks for conceding your point regarding Johun Othone.

You've conceded on almost everything in this thread and are clearly only arguing for the sake of continuing the argument.

The Lost Jedi stomp, just as I've proven throughout this thread.

I read it, yes. The game script for KOTOR II isn't "published" SW material.

The point of said ritual according to you is to siphon Darkside energy. It seems like a small variation to the actual drain technique. If you can provide a quote denoting that the ritual was complex or imprsssiv beyond the fact that it was a ritual we might be getting somewhere.

How did I concede that when I noted that the spirits remained trapped as the entire point of the Kyle Katarn game is to free them, something that is a prophecized event in universe. The basis of your argument for Ruusan evolving over time.

Hate to break it to you but believing in something hard enough doesn't make it true.

Originally posted by Selenial
It wasn't even a "simple draining ritual", they were resurrecting Freedon Nadd mmm

Quote?

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Quote?

"Freedon Nadd was a Dark Jedi who conquered Onderon long ago and established the royal line from which Queen Talia is descended. The Sith have gathered here to conduct a blood ritual intended to resurrect the entombed tyrant."
- Prima official Game Guide.

So the party engages in a 3v3 duel with three Dark Jedi Masters who have intricate knowledge of Sith Sorcery, after fighting through turrets, commandos, beasts and Sith Lords, while in a tomb so saturated in "intense power" that even a mandalorian can feel it.

Totally still < Inquisitors tho, right? Blaster deflection for days and all that

Maybe I missed something, but the ritual seemed to be completed yet utterly failed.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Maybe I missed something, but the ritual seemed to be completed yet utterly failed.

They make note of cutting the ritual off, but suggest the results are good enough. For all we know, the ritual was to gather the force energies into a host just to feed Nihilus. It's hard to tell, I guess.

Nah, they clearly break the ritual (which kills a fellow Sith), and then they attempt to bluff the party by claiming that they completed the ritual.

Ah alright, cause with the way they said, it sounded like they completed it.