Ultron Prime vs. Optimus Prime

TheLordofMurder

Originally posted by KingD19
Optimus steps on him. Also Ultron isn't advanced enough to hack Optimus in the first place. Cybertronian Tech is still millions of years beyond human tech, and Tony's is beyond the humans in Transformers, but yeah he's not hacking Optimus.

thumb up

And once "The Touch" by Stan Bush starts playing, Optimus will run right though Ultron like he wasnt even there...

smile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZKpByV5764

relentless1

his drone army is standard weaponry yes? if thats the case then he beats Prime

KingD19

His drone army wasn't mentioned, so they aren't in this.

In that same example, the Autobots are standard for Optimus. So he gets every Autobot from all 5 TF movies including the Dinobots.

Utrigita

Originally posted by Impediment
Optimus.

TheVaultDweller

KingD19

Yeah. Optimus and the others downloaded the entirety of the internet a few minutes after they got to Earth. If not before that.

And the first movie made it clear that the tech boom of the mid 20th century was because Megatron crashed there.

Ascendancy

I wouldn't discount Ultron being able to hack Prime, but it certainly wouldn't be quick, and there's no way to really estimate what kind of defenses their neural networks can mount, so makes sense that it's left out here.

relentless1

Originally posted by KingD19
His drone army wasn't mentioned, so they aren't in this.

In that same example, the Autobots are standard for Optimus. So he gets every Autobot from all 5 TF movies including the Dinobots.

the drones ARE Ultron though, can't say the same about Optimus and the Autobots can ya

TheVaultDweller

True, but he did specify Ultron Prime. If he had just said Ultron, then everything would be fair game, seeing as Ultron itself is actually simply advanced, self-aware AI.

relentless1

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
True, but he did specify Ultron Prime. If he had just said Ultron, then everything would be fair game, seeing as Ultron itself is actually simply advanced, self-aware AI.

fair enough

FrothByte

Nobody thinks that Ultron's flight, higher mobility and vibranium body will give Optimus a challenge?

TheVaultDweller

Well, Optimus can also fly, as seen at the end of the last Transformers film, IIRC (didn't he decide to bugger off into space at the end?). And he is also pretty fast and mobile (even for his size), as seen when he fought multiple Decepticons at once, and was actually beating them until Megatron stabbed him from behind. Ultron's durability might be a bit of a challenge, but he himself would likely have quite a bit of difficulty doing any significant damage to Optimus.

John Murdoch

Optimus. I don't see Captain America being able to do anything to Optimus, whereas he giving Ultron a fight (albeit, a losing one, but still a fight).

Ultron Prime's partial vibranium body and repulsors won't be an issue in the long run, and the only trouble I see from Ultron is if his technopathy/magnetic control (whatever he led his fight against Tony with whenever he baited him with the start of a villain monologue) to manipulate Optimus, but if Iron Man held up against that, I'd say Optimus has the size, skill, and versatile armaments to put Ultron down.

And as Vault said above, he was taking on Decepticons 3-against-1 in Revenge of the Fallen and winning until Megatron's backstab.

KingD19

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Yeah, Ultron is phucked. And again, Prime's tech is literally lightyears more advanced than Ultron. If Jarvis could take him down, and he's a human made AI. Then what do you think a robot species who hacked the entire internet in a few minutes(including black sites and military instillations) will do when he tries to interface with him?

TheVaultDweller

Originally posted by John Murdoch
Optimus. I don't see Captain America being able to do anything to Optimus, whereas he giving Ultron a fight (albeit, a losing one, but still a fight).

While it has little baring on this match, I would just like to point out that the version of Ultron Prime that Cap fought is vastly inferior to the Final Form version, as highlighted here by Ultron himself. The first one is like the version Iron Man/Cap fought. The one at the end was at Sokovia:

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Originally posted by John Murdoch

Ultron Prime's partial vibranium body and repulsors won't be an issue in the long run, and the only trouble I see from Ultron is if his technopathy/magnetic control (whatever he led his fight against Tony with whenever he baited him with the start of a villain monologue)

It was more than magnetism, but they never explain exactly how it works. Because he also used it to launch Cap off the back of the truck, during the highway fight, and the final Ultron Prime used it to toss a piece of stone pillar at Thor, as seen here, at around 0:10s:

O9pBQrpAb_E

Moot point, though, as he has no feats using that techno-tk (or whatever it was) on something as big as Optimus.

On a random note, why are people still discussing hacking? It was excluded in the OP to begin with.

John Murdoch

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
It was more than magnetism, but they never explain exactly how it works. Because he also used it to launch Cap off the back of the truck, during the highway fight, and the final Ultron Prime used it to toss a piece of stone pillar at Thor, as seen here, at around 0:10s:

O9pBQrpAb_E

Moot point, though, as he has no feats using that techno-tk (or whatever it was) on something as big as Optimus.

On a random note, why are people still discussing hacking? It was excluded in the OP to begin with.

That's right, never stated how the techno tk stuff worked. And like you're saying, Vault, shouldn't be an issue for Optimus, as Ultron always used it against human-sized opponents.

Viritrilbia

KingD19

Originally posted by Viritrilbia
Millions of years.....haha nope. stick out tongue

They're different life-forms so obviously the direction of their civilization in terms of progress is different....but in no way shape or form could Cybertron defeat humans 1,000 years from now. I'm not even sure 300 years.

I think Ultron could win if he flew into Optimus and started blowing him up from inside...Optimus could win if he got off some solid hits....

Cap not being able to take Optimus has nothing to do with it. It's only size difference, and Ultron's flight and durability negate that.

Hahahaha....yes. It's directly stated several times that tech on Cyberton is millions of years more advanced than Earth. Literally all of Earth's huge technology boom over the past century have been because Megatron crashed on Earth and they started to reverse engineer him.

If the full Decepticon/Cybertron armies go up against Earth, you really think Earth would win? You're reaching.

Ultron can't fly inside Optimus. Why is that even a suggestion?

Optimus can fly too, and himself is highly durable.

Viritrilbia

Originally posted by KingD19
Hahahaha....yes. It's directly stated several times that tech on Cyberton is millions of years more advanced than Earth. Literally all of Earth's huge technology boom over the past century have been because Megatron crashed on Earth and they started to reverse engineer him.

If the full Decepticon/Cybertron armies go up against Earth, you really think Earth would win? You're reaching.

Ultron can't fly inside Optimus. Why is that even a suggestion?

Optimus can fly too, and himself is highly durable.

If it's millions of years more advanced than earth, than they sure progress slowly. laughing

I didn't say Earth would win, I said maybe in 300 years Earth would win. At the rate technology is advancing that's a big difference. The whole military at least would have advanced suits superior to Iron Man, at the least. Please, read before you respond.

Did I say Optimus wasn't durable? "Fly" connects to the Ultron advantage of easier hiding and dodging. Also, Ultron can fly more easily. Optimus could have flew lots of times, but he didn't.

Ultron can, yes. He is a bit more durable per square inch. As you well know, Transformers are not solid. There's gaps and plates over more plates, etc.

KingD19

Well they haven't been able to progress because a galactic civil war nearly wiped out their species and no one has been able to do anything but fight and survive. So tech progression has kinda stalled.

In 300 years, Earth will have advanced. And in 300 years, Cybertron will have advanced like 100,000 years.

Optimus has shown in TF3 and TF4 that he is capable of flight. In 4, he just straight up flew into deep space pretty quickly, making him far faster than Ultron.

And Optimus' tracking systems will let him easily see Ultron the whole time.

If Ultron tries to "fly inside" Optimus, he gets chopped in half by a heat blade.

Viritrilbia

Originally posted by KingD19
Well they haven't been able to progress because a galactic civil war nearly wiped out their species and no one has been able to do anything but fight and survive. So tech progression has kinda stalled.

In 300 years, Earth will have advanced. And in 300 years, Cybertron will have advanced like 100,000 years.

Optimus has shown in TF3 and TF4 that he is capable of flight. In 4, he just straight up flew into deep space pretty quickly, making him far faster than Ultron.

And Optimus' tracking systems will let him easily see Ultron the whole time.

If Ultron tries to "fly inside" Optimus, he gets chopped in half by a heat blade.

Well, I thought war would actually spur technological advancement.

I was talking about Cybertron as shown in the movies, vs Earth in 500 years, perhaps.

Ultron can see Optimus the whole time.

Isn't this Ultron Prime? Doesn't he have a Vibranium exoskeleton? In A: AoU he took a LOT of energy at the end.

My point is that it's more of a fair fight than people think. Not that Ultron would win.

FrothByte

Originally posted by KingD19
Well they haven't been able to progress because a galactic civil war nearly wiped out their species and no one has been able to do anything but fight and survive. So tech progression has kinda stalled.

In 300 years, Earth will have advanced. And in 300 years, Cybertron will have advanced like 100,000 years.

Optimus has shown in TF3 and TF4 that he is capable of flight. In 4, he just straight up flew into deep space pretty quickly, making him far faster than Ultron.

And Optimus' tracking systems will let him easily see Ultron the whole time.

If Ultron tries to "fly inside" Optimus, he gets chopped in half by a heat blade.

Prime may be able to reach a faster flying top speed but that does not make him a quicker or more agile flyer... which is what will matter in a fight.

TheVaultDweller

Optimus' actual limb/movement speed is faster though. He can move his body/bring his limbs to full extension etc. about as quickly as a fast human can. And that is despite the fact that his limbs are much longer/body much bigger than a human's i.e. his fist, for example, can travel a much greater distance than a human fist can in the same amount of time. A flip side example is Giant-Man, as seen in Civil War. He only got bigger, but not proportionally faster, hence why he appeared rather sluggish in his motions.

That being said, that says little about flight, which is propulsion-based for both of them. Though the fastest I can recall Ultron flying was during his chase with Iron Man.

FrothByte

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Optimus' actual limb/movement speed is faster though. He can move his body/bring his limbs to full extension etc. about as quickly as a fast human can. And that is despite the fact that his limbs are much longer/body much bigger than a humans i.e. his fist, for example, can travel a much greater distance than a human fist can in the same amount of time. A flip side example is Giant-Man, as seen in Civil War. He only got bigger, but not proportionally faster, hence why he appeared rather sluggish in his motions.

That being said, that says little about flight, which is propulsion-based for both of them. Though the fastest I can recall Ultron flying was during his chase with Iron Man.

Prime seemed to be able to move himself proportional to what he would look like had he been human size but I doubt that he could actually move as quickly as a human. Do you have any form of metric or comparison to know for sure that he moves as quickly as a human can? After all, he'd have a lot more distance to cover in moving his limbs. I'm sure he can run far faster than a human, but I really doubt he can punch faster.

I also don't recall Prime performing as tight aerial manouvers as Ultron was doing. Prime has a lot of advantages in this fight, flight agility maneouverability is not one of them.

KingD19

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Plenty of flight agility. Far faster than Ultron as well.

fDJ-ZQ_Sass

Kills 12 Decepticons in as many seconds. The one at the end is Shockwave, the one from the first video that shot him down.

TheVaultDweller

Originally posted by FrothByte
Prime seemed to be able to move himself proportional to what he would look like had he been human size but I doubt that he could actually move as quickly as a human. Do you have any form of metric or comparison to know for sure that he moves as quickly as a human can? After all, he'd have a lot more distance to cover in moving his limbs. I'm sure he can run far faster than a human, but I really doubt he can punch faster.

I also don't recall Prime performing as tight aerial manouvers as Ultron was doing. Prime has a lot of advantages in this fight, flight agility maneouverability is not one of them.

That's exactly the point. To move as fast as he would look like as a human, despite being much larger than one, shows the speed difference. If Optimus can move his arm a much greater distance than a human can in the same amount of time, it means his limbs are faster. Remember, he would only need to move his arm a fraction of its full extension to cover the same distance a human would with a full arm extension. Just look at his fight with the 3 Decepticons, for example. They aren't slow and lumbering when they fight (unlike Lang, from CA:CW). They move pretty damn quickly.

And I don't see how Ultron's flight will help much in anyways. None of his ranged attacks have shown anywhere near the output required to harm Optimus, which means he would need to get up close to have any shot of doing damage. And then Optimus' size and reach advantage will more than counteract Ultron's flight.

FrothByte

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
That's exactly the point. To move as fast as he would look like as a human, despite being much larger than one, shows the speed difference. If Optimus can move his arm a much greater distance than a human can in the same amount of time, it means his limbs are faster. Remember, he would only need to move his arm a fraction of its full extension to cover the same distance a human would with a full arm extension. Just look at his fight with the 3 Decepticons, for example. They aren't slow and lumbering when they fight (unlike Lang, from CA:CW). They move pretty damn quickly.

And I don't see how Ultron's flight will help much in anyways. None of his ranged attacks have shown anywhere near the output required to harm Optimus, which means he would need to get up close to have any shot of doing damage. And then Optimus' size and reach advantage will more than counteract Ultron's flight.

Ok let me clarify my stance. Yes, Prime can move his limbs faster than a human can for the same amount of distance. However, he will not be able to move himself as fast as a human can because he has more mass and more distance to cover.

As an example: Prime can move his arm 1 meter forward faster than a human can do the same. However, Prime cannot do a sommersault faster than a human can do a sommersault. Does this make sense?

Anyway, I'm not saying Ultron wins, I'm just being fair and giving credit where credit is due. Ultron has better flight and mobility. Prime has better firepower and strength.

TheVaultDweller

Originally posted by FrothByte
Ok let me clarify my stance. Yes, Prime can move his limbs faster than a human can for the same amount of distance. However, he will not be able to move himself as fast as a human can because he has more mass and more distance to cover.

As an example: Prime can move his arm 1 meter forward faster than a human can do the same. However, Prime cannot do a sommersault faster than a human can do a sommersault. Does this make sense?

Anyway, I'm not saying Ultron wins, I'm just being fair and giving credit where credit is due. Ultron has better flight and mobility. Prime has better firepower and strength.

I never said he could sommersault faster than a human could. Or deliver a full punch faster than a human could. Not sure where you are getting that. And his reach + strength counters distance + mass. As seen when we visibly see him move. He moves very quickly, despite his size. And it matters here. If Ultron is 1m away from him, unlike a human, he can just snap out his arm (not even all the way) and cover that distance quickly and easily, whereas a human-sized opponent cannot. Thus, Ultron will have less time to react to attacks from the same distance away as he would from a much smaller opponent.

Anyway, we both agree Optimus takes it in anyways.