Can Darth Nihilus drain a planet without orbital bombardment?

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Deronn_solo
Apparently, it's becoming a commonly held belief that Nihilus can't drain a planet on the fly like once thought, but instead needs to attack it with an orbital onslaught first, via a quote in the Complete Star Wars encyclopedia. But others, view the quote in a completely different manner, and suggest it's not mutually exclusive.

So which camp are you in?

Emperordmb
Quote from SW encyclopedia?

Deronn_solo
In the meantime, Darth Nihilus led his Sith forces from his flagship, the Ravager, drawing more and more power from worlds that he blasted into ruin.
--TCSWE

Credit to Ant.

Zenwolf
It seems cut and dry to me.

Deronn_solo
Originally posted by Zenwolf
It seems cut and dry to me.
Which is....?

Zenwolf
Edit: Retracted.

Beniboybling
There is not a single source that states or depicts as such, and instead anyone not in urgent need of glasses can tell from Unseen, Unheard that orbital bombardment is not involved.

Zenwolf
Actually re-tract last comment. Makes sense, I got it figured out.

Deronn_solo
Logically, it doesn't make a bit of sense. Blasting the planet with orbital bombardment would kill a significant amount of the populace, given the destructive power a turbolaser sports alone.

Zenwolf
Because he didn't. They pretty much used the word ruin twice just in different wording in the quote.

The Merchant
He never used the Ravager. Other sources say ancient Sith like Nihilus can destroy worlds with a thought, which backs up him life wiping planets like Katarr in unseen unheard.

AncientPower
A poor misinterpretation of one statement is not going to change what we see in Unseen, Unheard.

nfactor1995
So...the idea is that Nihilus can casually and/or effortlessly drain an entire planet? With no prep or anything?

UCanShootMyNova
Yep. smile

SunRazer
He does need prep of some sort, as the Battle of Telos IV shows.

Nephthys
Originally posted by Beniboybling
There is not a single source that states or depicts as such, and instead anyone not in urgent need of glasses can tell from Unseen, Unheard that orbital bombardment is not involved.

Deronn_solo
Originally posted by SunRazer
He does need prep of some sort, as the Battle of Telos IV shows.

Prep doesn't necessarily mean arial bombardment, lmao.

MythLord
Originally posted by Beniboybling
There is not a single source that states or depicts as such, and instead anyone not in urgent need of glasses can tell from Unseen, Unheard that orbital bombardment is not involved.

Unseen, Unheard has him first bombing Katarr, though. Well either that, or he TKs the surface of the planet, but that'd be ridiculous because that'd make Nihilus > every other SW character bar the Ones.

Beniboybling
wow, u r dumb.

MythLord
Originally posted by Beniboybling
wow, u r dumb.

Great AP imitation. Now can we go back to common sense, tbh?

Also Hangouts, immediately, tbh. smile

SunRazer
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Prep doesn't necessarily mean arial bombardment, lmao.

Which is why in my post, I said "prep", not "aerial bombardment". I deliberately left it up to your interpretation.

Deronn_solo
Fair enough.

I just think it's an incredible stretch, that Nihilus would kill a massive chunk of the populace before draining what's left of it, with that nugget of detail is never explicitly stated by a single source ever to boot --- and the only piece of evidence suggesting this in canon can, and has been interpreted in different ways.

It's also worth noting that sources have indicated Nihilus can devastate, and consume worlds with his power, the "and" separating the devastation from consume, assuring that the latter doesn't make the definition and implication the former mutually exclusive.

MythLord
I'd imagine killing them would make it easier for him to suck up the Life Force, tbh. I mean, it's basic Dark Sider stuff to feed off of the death of other beings by sapping their unprotected Life Force.

Selenial
I'm surprised no ones brought up Ziost yet, Vitiate needed a massive loss of life before having the ability to drain the rest. When a being dies, it's life energies seem easier to drain.

I'm not saying Nihilus needs that, but it certainly does make sense.

Deronn_solo
Originally posted by MythLord
I'd imagine killing them would make it easier for him to suck up the Life Force, tbh. I mean, it's basic Dark Sider stuff to feed off of the death of other beings by sapping their unprotected Life Force.

That's fair, but why would that detail never be elucidated on in canon? Like, literally numerous other source has just draining the planet with a thought, lal.

I mean it's still highly impressive regardless of bombardment or not.

MythLord
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
That's fair, but why would that detail never be elucidated on in canon? Like, literally numerous other source has just draining the planet with a thought, lal.

I mean it's still highly impressive regardless of bombardment or not.

Those sources are subjective, IIRC. Or are internet blogs which we know aren't canon, anyways.

And TCSWE did kinda shed light on it, but obviously, bombardment or not, it shows a great deal of range and power for Nihilus. Nobody's disputing that -- I just don't think Drain can topple buildings, lol.

Azronger
I know may sound reaching but just because he can drain the planet with a "thought" doesn't mean the draining itself happened at the speed of a thought.

Deronn_solo
Nah. Power Beyond Belief states such, and it is officially released by Wizard of the Coast as supplement information to the role playing game. So, no different from what's in a sourcebook.



It gave us an ambiguous quote that can be interpreted in numerous ways. I'm looking for somethinc more.....cut and dry. A Nihilus wanker can make the claim the Sith Lord himself "ruin" to the planet with his Force power, kek.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by Selenial
I'm surprised no ones brought up Ziost yet, Vitiate needed a massive loss of life before having the ability to drain the rest. When a being dies, it's life energies seem easier to drain.

I'm not saying Nihilus needs that, but it certainly does make sense. Where Vitiate's drain destroyed buildings yeah. smile

SunRazer
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Fair enough.

I just think it's an incredible stretch, that Nihilus would kill a massive chunk of the populace before draining what's left of it, with that nugget of detail is never explicitly stated by a single source ever to boot --- and the only piece of evidence suggesting this in canon can, and has been interpreted in different ways.

It's also worth noting that sources have indicated Nihilus can devastate, and consume worlds with his power, the "and" separating the devastation from consume, assuring that the latter doesn't make the definition and implication the former mutually exclusive.

It's not just one source, though. KotOR II itself shows the only on-panel depiction of an opportunity for Nihilus to do the same thing during the Battle of Telos IV - and he doesn't. Clearly there's more to it than him showing up, willing the death of all life on the planet, and then moving along.

Deronn_solo
I was referring to the orbital bombardment Nova, not the prep part, or whatever.

Nephthys
The suggestion of orbital bombardment is an absolute crock of shit and suggests not only dangerous ignorance on the part of the believer but also blindness because anyone can watch Unseen, Unheard and plainly see what happened.

All in all, a complete failure of an argument not worth the time to even consider.

He blasted the worlds into ruin with his force attack you morons.

Emperordmb
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Nah. Power Beyond Belief states such, and it is officially released by Wizard of the Coast as supplement information to the role playing game. So, no different from that's in a sourcebook.
smile smile smile


The most cancur source ever smile

NewGuy01
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Fair enough.

I just think it's an incredible stretch, that Nihilus would kill a massive chunk of the populace before draining what's left of it, with that nugget of detail is never explicitly stated by a single source ever to boot --- and the only piece of evidence suggesting this in canon can, and has been interpreted in different ways.

I made a case for it back in the day, if you care to try and find it. Part of my explanation was that Nihilus was feeding on the life energies that were expunged at the moment of death, as expanded upon in Darth Plagueis and KOTOR2, rather than causing the deaths himself.

Nephthys
We see that that isn't how the technique works when he and Traya use it.

NewGuy01
Huh? That's nonsense. Traya's technique severs her target's connection to the Force, and then feeds on their resultant death--that's how she told the Exile it works...

Well, whatever. I've long lost interest in this subject and have no particular drive to investigate further into how Nihilus does what he does, nor am I interested in defending an ancient argument. I only responded to explain the stance as I understand it to Deronn, who seemed confused.

Nephthys
Indeed, the technique itself causes death. Theres no need for him to have to kill them first before doing it when the technique already causes death. If he can use it on the people in the first place to feed on their deaths as you say, they'd die regardless. No need for a bombardment.

MythLord
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Nah. Power Beyond Belief states such, and it is officially released by Wizard of the Coast as supplement information to the role playing game. So, no different from what's in a sourcebook.

That's a web-enhancement/blog(which already has dubious canonicity) from Wizards of the Coast... The same people who think Bastila ~ Dooku ~ Kenobi, and Malak is "far more powerful" than Exar Kun because he has a metal jaw...

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
It gave us an ambiguous quote that can be interpreted in numerous ways. I'm looking for somethinc more.....cut and dry. A Nihilus wanker can make the claim the Sith Lord himself "ruin" to the planet with his Force power, kek.

I mean, it seems cut-and-dry enough since he's drawing(draining) power from worlds he "blasted into ruin". Drain doesn't it cause buildings to crumble, nor does it cause explosions since both Force Drain and Drain Life only target the metaphysical -- life essence and Force connection.

I'd assume you can argue Nihilus has planetary level TK, but that's too far fetched.

Deronn_solo
Yeah, WotC, a license-holder to publish Star Wars related works, lal. I see no reason why it wouldn't be canon. The Bastila thing only pertained to the RPG game mechanics, and the Malak > Kun thing doesn't invalidate anything. I can scan through encyclopedia and find multiple objectively incorrect information.



As I said before, one can claim Nihilus ruined the planet with his strength in the dark side. The quote never specifically mentioned the ship bombarding anything. That just a conclusion some read, and came up with.

Deronn_solo
Originally posted by NewGuy01
I made a case for it back in the day, if you care to try and find it. Part of my explanation was that Nihilus was feeding on the life energies that were expunged at the moment of death, as expanded upon in Darth Plagueis and KOTOR2, rather than causing the deaths himself.

Interesting. Do you remember what thread you made the case on?
Originally posted by Emperordmb
smile smile smile


The most cancur source ever smile

I used some of their sources for my Kyle Katarn arguments back in the day, so I'm not gonna be hypocritical and ignore it here. xD

MythLord
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Yeah, WotC, a license-holder to publish Star Wars related works, lal. I see no reason why it wouldn't be canon. The Bastila thing only pertained to the RPG game mechanics, and the Malak > Kun thing doesn't invalidate anything. I can scan through encyclopedia and find multiple objectively incorrect information.

But on a website blog... which Leland notes it isn't canon even for The Official Star Wars website. If even the blogs that the highest authority of the SW universe authorizes isn't to be considered canon, just the databanks, I doubt someone with the license to write sourcebooks with RPG stats making a blog would have that much power over the lore.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
As I said before, one can claim Nihilus ruined the planet with his strength in the dark side. The quote never specifically mentioned the ship bombarding anything. That just a conclusion some read, and came up with.

It makes more sense for it to be ships, than his TK, since even Sheev couldn't simply sweep aside and raze a planet with TK.

Deronn_solo
So what? The crux of a web enchantment, is to expand on the Star Wars role-playing game, which it does, and the Star Wars role playing games are factually apart Star Wars universe --- with the stats and such, being canon per Chee himself. Those blogs were never meant to expand on anything at all --- hence, why it isn't even reviewed by the Star Wars publishing group.



Your arbitrary power capping doesn't negate the fact that the quote can factually be interpreted in multiple ways.

It's not cut and dry --- period.

Nephthys
Originally posted by MythLord
Drain doesn't it cause buildings to crumble, nor does it cause explosions since both Force Drain and Drain Life only target the metaphysical -- life essence and Force connection.

You can literally see that it does you tool.

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/d/db/Devastation_of_Katarr.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120214192514

Wheres the bombardment?

MythLord
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
So what? The crux of a web enchantment, is to expand on the Star Wars role-playing game, which it does, and the Star Wars role playing games are factually apart Star Wars universe --- with the stats and such, being canon per Chee himself. Those blogs were never meant to expand on anything at all --- hence, why it isn't even reviewed by the Star Wars publishing group.

Quote the stats are canon? Because those stats only pertain to game mechanics, which Leland confirms is non-canon.
The fact that LucasArts didn't even authorize this expanded blog/web article puts it in even more a dump, canon-wise.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Your arbitrary power capping doesn't negate the fact that the quote can factually be interpreted in multiple ways.

It's not cut and dry --- period.

It isn't arbitrary, there's factual limitations to each character, even beings superior to Nihilus factually, and Nihilus seems to be shedding them if we interpret the quote that way.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You can literally see that it does you tool.

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/d/db/Devastation_of_Katarr.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120214192514

Wheres the bombardment?

That is the bombardment, numbskull. Drain doesn't operate on a physical, material level. Saying it does completely contradicts the principles of the power.

UCanShootMyNova
Vitiate's did though did it not?

Nephthys
Originally posted by MythLord
That is the bombardment, numbskull. Drain doesn't operate on a physical, material level. Saying it does completely contradicts the principles of the power.

There's no bombardment, you twit. You can see the attack causing the damage. Where are the lasers causing those buildings to collapse?

Look at the picture:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/41224/1755591-unseenunheard3.jpg

No ships anywhere, even in an orbital shot, no lasers, no explosions. Only Nihilus' attack causing the destruction. You literally see a shot from orbit of the attack reaching a city, the destruction in progress and then Visas fleeing with the destruction in the progress and nowhere are there any ships or lasers. They literally show you a shot from orbit right before the attack. No ships. What a surprise.

Vitiates destruction of Ziost caused massive destruction of the planet and disintegrated the population as well. Just leave.

Deronn_solo
Man, debating with you is like banging your head against a wall in ad infinitum, lal. You didn't meet many of my post head on, and refuse to concede when you're wrong.



I posted it a while back on one of Wolfrazers blogs. I'll look for it if I can, but honestly, I'm working on my important matters at the moment, and this debate is starting to bore me to tears.



Wizard of the Coast has publishing rights to the Star Wars RPG, and has a call in what does, and doesn't expand the game, lmao. As they were more or less in charge of the game.

Information in those role-playing game sourcebooks are factually canon, and that was that snippet regarding Darth Nihilus is. If they says something supplements game, it does just that. And you have absolute zero basis to throw it out besides some blogs on Star Wars .com that as never meant to supplement any in canon works or the like.


Yeah it is.



Except, devastating a planet with Force powers isn't beyond Palpatine's. erm


The quote isn't conclusive at all, accept it and move on.

Beniboybling
wow, wolf is still clueless even after are convo on hangouts, sad. smile

Emperordmb
Yo Beni, could you PM me your gmail so I can add you to the hangout with Ant/Skillz/Elm/Temp/myself/Syn/etc.?

Nephthys
He's blinder than Visas, lol.

Maybe Big N dug his eyes out too and thats why he's gunning for him.

UCanShootMyNova
thumb up

Beniboybling
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Yo Beni, could you PM me your gmail so I can add you to the hangout with Ant/Skillz/Elm/Temp/myself/Syn/etc.? who says I want those people in my life kek

MythLord
Fair enough, DC.

Neph, die plz.

Emperordmb
Originally posted by Beniboybling
who says I want those people in my life kek
Well you let Wollf in your life

QuakeBlood
up

Geistalt
He can do it without bombardment (but not without starving).

S_W_LeGenD
I don't think he needs bombardment.

Freedon Nadd
Of course he can do that if you think how much raw Force power he possesses. smile smile

Deronn_solo
Interesting bump --- does anyone have anything new to add?

As far as I know, the implication of Nihilus needing bombardment is simply wishful and selective thinking.

Freedon Nadd
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Except, devastating a planet with Force powers isn't beyond Palpatine's. erm

It is if you think how much Nihilus grew in power after consuming other planets(with rich Force-sensitivity)
And it's not like Sidious could do what Nihilus did.
He was simply (slowly) draining the life of the Byss' inhabitants for decades.
Indeed, Sidious could use Force drain on a wide-planetary scale. But nowhere suggests that he can do it instantly or like Darth Nihilus.

And how Palpatine says it in that particular instance in that comic book. It could mean that the Byss' people 'willingly' gave their life-force to Darth Sidious.

Freedon Nadd
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Interesting bump --- does anyone have anything new to add?

As far as I know, the implication of Nihilus needing bombardment is simply wishful and selective thinking.

It was for Wollf's claims. And then I wanted to delete my comment. But they wouldn't let me.

Deronn_solo
Um, by devastating a planet, I meant through powers such as Force Storms.

KingD19
Made it seem to me as if Nihilus just ate the Force from the planet(Katarr), which as it is tied to all living things, killed everything/everyone on the planet as a result.

SunRazer
Whether it's orbital bombardment or not, Nihilus needs a way of engendering mass death before he feeds from a planet. Katarr had the buildings crumbling from some sort of attack and the various other worlds had Nihilus "blasting them into ruin" before he fed on them.

In-game, Kavar muses that something was trying to feed on the planet of Onderon as well, which was presumably Nihilus, yet he failed, which indicates that there are more pre-requisites to planetary feeding than just Nihilus' invocation of Drain. Likewise, when the Battle of Telos IV comes, Nihilus fails to Drain the planet or even Citadel Station, when it's clearly in his best interest and intention to do so. Again, it's suggested that he needs to do something before successfully feeding on the planet.

SunRazer
Also, a SWTOR codex entry states that Nihilus "prepared' to Drain Telos and was successfully stopped in time, which makes it clear that he can't just rock up to a planet and kill everything on it instantly.

Nephthys
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/a2/22/84/a22284f881751951c678aa0982dd262c.jpg

SunRazer
It can be painful to admit the truth, yeah.

It's clear that Nihilus can't devour planetary life on a whim and requires elaborate preparations and certain conditions to be met in order to do so, whether that entails orbital bombardment or not.

Zotar3232
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
In the meantime, Darth Nihilus led his Sith forces from his flagship, the Ravager, drawing more and more power from worlds that he blasted into ruin.
--TCSWE

Credit to Ant.

The quote does not imply his ships blasted anything - only that he led his fleet from his Flagship, while cleansing worlds of life.

Zotar3232
Originally posted by Nephthys
The suggestion of orbital bombardment is an absolute crock of shit and suggests not only dangerous ignorance on the part of the believer but also blindness because anyone can watch Unseen, Unheard and plainly see what happened.

All in all, a complete failure of an argument not worth the time to even consider.

He blasted the worlds into ruin with his force attack you morons.

This guy knows what he's talking about. thumb up

I concur with him.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by SunRazer
Whether it's orbital bombardment or not, Nihilus needs a way of engendering mass death before he feeds from a planet. Katarr had the buildings crumbling from some sort of attack and the various other worlds had Nihilus "blasting them into ruin" before he fed on them.

In-game, Kavar muses that something was trying to feed on the planet of Onderon as well, which was presumably Nihilus, yet he failed, which indicates that there are more pre-requisites to planetary feeding than just Nihilus' invocation of Drain. Likewise, when the Battle of Telos IV comes, Nihilus fails to Drain the planet or even Citadel Station, when it's clearly in his best interest and intention to do so. Again, it's suggested that he needs to do something before successfully feeding on the planet.
Good observations. smile

Zotar3232
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Good observations. smile

No. They're not good observations.

The idiot SunRazer overlooked the fact the Nihilus "failed" to drain Telos because it was largely devoid of life, and it was a trap to draw him to where another Force Wound could confront him.

Target Range (within thousands of kilometers) would be the only factor Nihilus would need - which is irrelevant in duels anyway.

The Retard also ignores that the quote didn't imply that anyone other than Nihilus blasted them into ruin.

Nephthys made an astute observation when he noticed it was Nihilus's power that caused all this - and nothing else.

Traya also uses a weaker-version of this power and she does not need to engender any mass death at all.

The Hunger Drain is speak=kill and nothing more.

"When my lord spoke, every living thing on Katarr died." - Visas


Retards seem to have trouble grasping the simplicity of Nihilus's power.

SunRazer
lmao @ it being harder for Nihilus to Drain life if there's less life on the planet. Like, seriously, you know your brain belongs in your head and not up somebody's ass, right?

As for it being a trap, do you realize how long it took for the Exile to board the Ravager and fight her way to the bridge? Or is Nihilus not capable of speaking before that happens?

Beniboybling
no, all Nihilus has to do is speak. and world dies

SunRazer
Clearly he can do it on a whim, even though it takes longer for him to speak than for the Exile to fight the Sith army on Citadel Station, fly to the Ravager, and then fight her way to the bridge.

Beniboybling
He has a stutter?

SunRazer
Remember to bring that up in battle threads with Nihilus, then.

Zotar3232

Zotar3232
Originally posted by SunRazer
Clearly he can do it on a whim, even though it takes longer for him to speak than for the Exile to fight the Sith army on Citadel Station, fly to the Ravager, and then fight her way to the bridge.

That's because he didn't want to drain her, Dumbass.

He waited until he could interrogate her, first.


Originally posted by SunRazer
Remember to bring that up in battle threads with Nihilus, then.

roll eyes (sarcastic) laughing

Bring up what?

SunRazer
I love how you're throwing all these insults about how dumb other people are and you completely miss the point. Like, seriously, you've reached the point where you need a medical certificate for your level of stupidity.

I'm talking about why it takes so long for Nihilus to drain TELOS, not the Exile. We're discussing his ability to drain planets.

Deronn_solo
Don't feed the troll, Nova.

It's obviously that moron ZiggyStardust back from the grave again.

SunRazer
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Don't feed the troll, Nova.

It's obviously that moron ZiggyStardust back from the grave again.

I know.

Didn't Ziggy at least try to be intelligent?

Deronn_solo
Once you get past the horrible yo mama jokes, there is a rather striking resemblance between the two.

Beniboybling
If so he's clearly had a breakdown.

MythLord
thumb up

SunRazer
That's some serious deterioration.

Nephthys
Pot, kettle, black tbh.

SunRazer
What do you say when a third person comes in and the same thing applies to them?

Also, this running deterioration thing - I'm just curious as to what I had in the past that's lacking now. Personally, I don't think much has changed. I mean, I used to believe in feats only and arrived at far more preposterous conclusions than now.

Not sure why Neph is saying it, either. My disagreements with him have always been present. lol

Nephthys
Oh, I guess I just assumed that at some point you didn't ascribe to this retarded theory about him needing outside help to use his technique. I suppose that was just overly-optimistic of me.

Katarr has the buildings crumbling from Nihilus' attack btw. I suppose a giant black cloud of death is a little hard to figure out though. Maybe it's some kind of prototype laser???

SunRazer
I already said - if it's not orbital bombardment, it's something else. Preparation is necessary. Both KotOR II and SWTOR confirm that. It's not something he can do instantly.

If Nihilus caused the buildings to crumble, it wasn't with Drain, lmfao. Also, smoke does billow from destroyed buildings (obviously the clouds weren't the lasers, lmfao). I hope you knew that. An off-panel bombardment isn't out of the question.

I'll wait for you to reconcile Onderon, Telos, and the worlds he blasted into ruin, though.

Nephthys
Preparation doesn't imply a limitation of requirement. In this case we know that he was "preparing" in that he was trying to find the Jedi he was informed were there. He could use the attack at any point as he did when the Exile confronted him.

Why not?

SunRazer
Originally posted by Nephthys
Preparation doesn't imply a limitation of requirement. In this case we know that he was "preparing" in that he was trying to find the Jedi he was informed were there. He could use the attack at any point as he did when the Exile confronted him.

Why is it necessary for him to locate anything if he can speak and kill every living thing on a planet? Why can't he just devour everything indiscriminately and just take the winnings? He doesn't care. Likewise, he should've devoured all life on Citadel Station and the Republic fleet, which would've ended the battle instantly and allowed him to prepare for Telos for as long as he wanted.

As someone who defends Unseen, Unheard's prose to the maximum, surely if Nihilus consumed all life on Katarr, down to the vegetation and vermin, he didn't target his enemies. It'd be ridiculous enough to assume that he outright targeted the better part of a hundred Jedi, as well as millions of Miraluka, let alone everything else.

This also doesn't explain why Nihilus failed on Onderon, and why he bothered to blast worlds into ruin at all if he could just devour all life on a planet on a whim with no conditions attached.



What's this in response to? Why the buildings weren't destroyed by Drain, a power that focuses on devouring the victim's Force connections? Connect the dots yourself.

Nephthys
I'll get to you soon. See if you can work out where you went wrong without me spelling it out tho.

SunRazer
Well, I need a response to everything before I can piece together what your take on this is. You've neglected to respond to some things more than once.

Regarding Citadel Station, I'd expect a response along the lines of "he didn't care about them". Which is actually fair enough. I'll wait to see what your response will be for the rest of it, though.

Beniboybling
You too Nova?

Vitiate's drain destroyed buildings on Ziost.

You see the destruction of the planet from space, and there is no bombardment.

You see the destruction of the planet from the ground, and there is no bombardment.

It was drain. Seven returds think otherwise, KMC needs a purge. smile

SunRazer
I said the bombardment would be off-panel in this case. At the minimum it's a plausible explanation.

And what Vitiate did on Ziost is absolutely not what Nihilus did on Katarr, lmfao. Force Drain in KotOR II doesn't affect buildings.

Beniboybling
plausible
adjective
(of an argument or statement) seeming reasonable or probable.

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/f/fc/Katarrdevastation.jpg

mmm

Nah, unless he was shooting at a different planet, not plausible.

And what Vitiate did on Ziost was drain a planet of all life, what did Nihilus do to Katarr again? And where is it stated that KOTOR II drain doesn't affect buildings? The gloss edition campaign guide?

Nephthys
Originally posted by SunRazer
Why is it necessary for him to locate anything if he can speak and kill every living thing on a planet? Why can't he just devour everything indiscriminately and just take the winnings? He doesn't care. Likewise, he should've devoured all life on Citadel Station and the Republic fleet, which would've ended the battle instantly and allowed him to prepare for Telos for as long as he wanted.

As someone who defends Unseen, Unheard's prose to the maximum, surely if Nihilus consumed all life on Katarr, down to the vegetation and vermin, he didn't target his enemies. It'd be ridiculous enough to assume that he outright targeted the better part of a hundred Jedi, as well as millions of Miraluka, let alone everything else.

This also doesn't explain why Nihilus failed on Onderon, and why he bothered to blast worlds into ruin at all if he could just devour all life on a planet on a whim with no conditions attached.

An irrelevant question since we're directly told he's trying to find them. They could be fleeing the system in a ship or hiding in some deep underground bunker or something (which is what Atris was actually doing btw). He could be trying to figure out if he was lied to or not. Or merely confused. It's not as if he's a particularly rational person, his hunger could be overwhelming him with the desire to feed on Jedi and so he's intensely focused on finding them, disregarding everything else. Or, like has been posited before, he could be out of range.

And yet he had enough pinpoint control over the attack to spare Visas.

He didn't fail on Onderon, he never goes into the Onderon system. That's just you fanon'ing up something and acting like it's real again.

Originally posted by SunRazer
What's this in response to? Why the buildings weren't destroyed by Drain, a power that focuses on devouring the victim's Force connections? Connect the dots yourself.

Like Beni said, Vitiate's Ziost drain also destroyed the buildings, scarred the planets surface and disintegrated the population. Nihilus' attack was shown to do the same thing, destroying the buildings, turning everyone into skeletons and turning the planet into a desolate wasteland. Is it not plausible that with the two's level of power that their drains could manifest corporeal damage upon the environment? Like we actually see happening?

Similarly, as Beni has already pointed out you can see the attack as it occurs from space and there is no orbital bombardment or attack other than Nihilus' drain/smoke monster from Lost attack.

Your suggestion that the smoke was from destroyed buildings was one of the dumbest things I've seen you say btw. Degeneration indeed.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Well, I need a response to everything before I can piece together what your take on this is. You've neglected to respond to some things more than once.

I didn't neglect to respond to your points, you edited them in after I began my response.

SunRazer
Originally posted by Beniboybling
plausible
adjective
(of an argument or statement) seeming reasonable or probable.

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/f/fc/Katarrdevastation.jpg

mmm

Nah, unless he was shooting at a different planet, not plausible.

And what Vitiate did on Ziost was drain a planet of all life, what did Nihilus do to Katarr again? And where is it stated that KOTOR II drain doesn't affect buildings? The gloss edition campaign guide?

The cloud could've constituted a different Force attack.

What Vitiate did on Ziost would be more comparable to a ritual like Nathema than something like Nihilus' Drain in KotOR II. I have no reason to suspect that Vitiate would've learned the technique.

As for why Drain doesn't damage buildings - by definition, it doesn't. That's why the TCSWE quote mentions Nihilus feeding on worlds independently of him "blasting them into ruin", because they're not the same power.

I'll provide you with every in-game definition and we'll see what there is that affects buildings:



This pretty much seals it. Traya says that it can be used to consume Force-sensitives, and at the highest pinnacle, consume anything that lives. Buildings obviously not included, not to mention that Nihilus hasn't even reached the pinnacle yet.



Unless buildings have Force connections, then no, they wouldn't be affected.



Mind explaining to me how buildings have connections to life or the Force that can be severed, and then how buildings have deaths that can be fed upon?

SunRazer
Originally posted by Nephthys
An irrelevant question since we're directly told he's trying to find them. They could be fleeing the system in a ship or hiding in some deep underground bunker or something (which is what Atris was actually doing btw). He could be trying to figure out if he was lied to or not. Or merely confused. It's not as if he's a particularly rational person, his hunger could be overwhelming him with the desire to feed on Jedi and so he's intensely focused on finding them, disregarding everything else. Or, like has been posited before, he could be out of range.

The Exile directly says that Nihilus already senses that there are no Jedi. And as both Visas and Tobin claim, if there are no Jedi on the planet, then he will feed on it anyway to sate himself to whatever extent possible.

Out of range? He was trying to feed on Onderon from across the galaxy. And don't you place stock in that "Devastating Power, Distant Power" stuff that claims Nihilus' Drain has the range of a star system?

This also doesn't explain what his preparation to Drain the planet was. Unless you think the actual preparation was targeting every single organism on the planet below? Regardless, the SWTOR codex mentions him preparing to devour "all life" on the planet below, meaning it's indiscriminate and not just in relation to the Jedi, and it also means that only "all life" would be affected, again, not including buildings.



Why would he spare Visas of all people on the planet? It seems to be more that Nihilus traversed the planet to see if there were any survivors, and upon finding Visas, took her back. Where is it said that the intentionally saved Visas from the get go?



He never went to Onderon but he was trying to feed upon it from a distance.



Unless you can find an alternative explanation for what was trying to feed on Onderon.



Whatever Vitiate did isn't the same power as Nihilus', which affects connections to life and the Force, not buildings, which constitute neither. If Vitiate damaged buildings, then that's just proof that he's doing something else.



I just said it would've either been off-panel or some other Force attack, but not Force Drain.

That's why TCSWE mentions Nihilus "blasting worlds into ruin" independently of his feeding on them. They're not the same power.

You don't get to talk about what's dumb after positing that an attack that drains life forces and Force connections can hurt buildings, by the way.

S_W_LeGenD
The revelation about Onderon is very telling! An effort to draw on the power of the planet itself and channel it against its inhabitants? I think that this might be preparation aspect of it. This is similar to what Abeloth did on Coruscant.

SunRazer has a solid case here. What if those cloudy formations are a manifestation of Darth Nihilus channeling the power of Katarr (itself) into an attack on its inhabitants? Interesting.

---

Vitiate certainly devastated Ziost with his powers but the tsunami of Dark Side energy (that he unleashed on the planet initially) destroyed life-forms, vaporized oceans, wrecked the atmosphere and also destroyed softer inanimate stuff like statues, furniture and such (considering visual evidence only). However, its sheer intensity would have generated powerful tremors on the ground and those tremors would have wrecked the surface and destroyed many buildings (If I am not mistaken). Even the orbiting space stations were shaking from the intensity.

Beniboybling
Wow, Nova is clueless. smile

Beniboybling
Originally posted by SunRazer
The cloud could've constituted a different Force attack.???

Not even sure what your getting at here but no, it was Force drain obviously. And there is no bombardment reaching the surface, so that rules out it occurring simultaneously. It's pointless to argue it occurred afterwards so in regards to "off-panel" it could only have been before, and yet here:

http://i.imgur.com/Wtbilq3.jpg

We not only see buildings collapsing without a laser bolt in sight, but the cloud simultaneously engulfing the planet, so no, no bombardment.

I don't have enough details on Nathema to comment but by the looks of it the ritual left massive craters in the planet:

http://i.imgur.com/jGh5OwQ.png

It doesn't? It says he drew "more and more power from worlds that he blasted into ruin", it's a dependent, not separate clause.

Mind explaining to me at which point in your life you were dropped on your head? smile

I wasn't suggesting Nihilus drained the buildings lmfao. And that's not what Vitiate did either. Logically speaking, it was a by-product of process, excess energy, much like real world energy transfers give off light, heat etc. In this respect the planetary storm Nihilus conjured seemed to have triggered some kind of shockwave/seismic event, which is not unprecedented.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
furniture lmao

SunRazer
1. I'll concede to this for the sake of moving the argument along, because my argument works fine even if I agree to you on these issues. And because I'm finding myself less inclined to believe the orbital bombardment theory myself - just that there are pre-requisites for Nihilus' Drain to be used on such a scale.

I'm curious though - we've been debating the possibility of orbital bombardment on Katarr and so far nobody has mentioned that Visas claims it was not an attack done by machinery or weapons. Doesn't that seem a lot more conclusive to you people? It didn't even get a mention in this entire thread.

2. My point is that Vitiate's technique isn't the same as Nihilus', so I don't know why we're comparing it. Moreover, all of this stuff came from before Vitiate's conception. So without using Vitiate as a basis, what arguments can you present?

3. You can't blame someone for misinterpreting you given that Drain has only one known effect in the mythos and this "by-product effect" of yours has no known documentation or basis. I don't have any reason to suspect that you were in actuality referring to some ooga-booga that you made up on the spot.

Do you mind establishing a basis for this?

And you'll forgive me if I have a lot of questions about this by-product effect that you're talking about. Why did Traya's Drain fail to cause any noticeable structural damage? How come the buildings were toppling even before the people died if Drain takes energy out of the people? How exactly do connections in the Force (which have no physical presence) being drained lead to physical damage? If the black cloud is Drain, then how are the buildings toppling already when the Drain hasn't even reached the people? Why is Drain never mentioned as damaging its surroundings due to "excess energy" in KotOR II?

I find it far more likely that the destruction seen in Unseen, Unheard is related to Nihilus "blasting worlds into ruin" as TCSWE describes. Per TCSWE, the blasting is active on Nihilus' part, not reactive due to his Drain. So this "by-product" argument is only getting weaker.

4. You've only debated the possibility of Drain causing physical damage - I assume you don't have anything to say about Nihilus not being able to just rock up to a planet and kill all life in a moment?

Beniboybling
1. OK.

And I don't recall, though there is a quote where Meetra says only orbital bombardment could have killed so many people, and Visas says naw. Regardless, that's probably because the comic making it blatantly obvious what occurred means we needn't root around for additional sources. smile

2. My bad misread. In response to your point though you given any basis for assuming they are different, the ritualistic aspect is a null point as its evidently isn't necessary. Which simply leaves us with planetary drain. Seems the same yeah.

Even more so Nihilus is said to have learned the same technique as the ancient Sith, of whom Vitiate was among.

3. My "ooga-booga" is documented in this comic called Unseen, Unheard. Try reading it. thumb up

And you can't compare it to Traya's application of drain, the magnitude is completely different, while as far as the TCSWE is concerned, even if its only a by-product of his drain, he's still actively brought it about by draining them...

4. No. smile

SunRazer
1. The original source was the game, where Visas directly states that "it was not something done with machines or weapons".

2. The Ancient Sith on Malachor, yeah, which Vitiate was never indicated as travelling to. Moreover, Vitiate hasn't actually experienced its effects first-hand, so he can't be using that technique.

3. Nowhere does Unseen, Unheard make any mention of why the buildings were destroyed - whether it was another Force attack, "excess energy" being released as a by-product of the Drain, etc.

So I ask again, what is your basis for Force Drain releasing excess energy as a by-product?

Traya's Drain is a significantly lower magnitude, but it's still three of the most powerful Masters ever. Besides, it's not the buildings in that one scan would've crumbled from the by-product of all the Jedi and Miraluka on the planet - only the ones in the vicinity, which is unlikely to be so greater than the three Masters on Dantooine that Traya's Drain would cause no environmental damage.

As for TCSWE, it suggests that Nihilus blasted worlds into ruin first, then fed on them, which doesn't fit your "by-product" theory. And being a by-product doesn't make it an active effect that's independent of the feeding, which is what TCSWE states.

Beniboybling
1. OK

2. According to what? And how do you know what Vitiate has or hasn't experienced?

3. Because its obvious yeah. Nihilus drained the planet, and the buildings were destroyed in the process. There was no bombardment, so we can rule that out, and though we could assume he achieved this result through a separate Force act, that introduces several logical roadblocks, mainly revolving around why.

That it was a by-product of the drain is simply the most straightforward interpretation.

Nihilus drained the entire planet, not just the Jedi and Miraluka, so no it don't compare et al.

And sure you could infer that, but that suggests that he needed to destroy the target before he could consume it, which conflicts with how drain is described to work in-game. And no it works fine, the quote says he blasted worlds into ruin, which he did, it doesn't say how.

SunRazer
2. Because apart from an appeal to ignorance, there's no basis for Vitiate learning the technique. The technique is derived from Malachor, which as Traya says, the Sith have forgotten about.

3. The only other things in the vicinity of that scan would've been vermin (which we can safely dismiss as being negligible) and perhaps some vegetation. Certainly nowhere near enough to make up the difference between ruining numerous large buildings and having no environmental consequence whatsoever.

4. The quote explicitly mentions him feeding off worlds that he blasted into ruin, indicating that the latter comes first. So the by-product theory makes little sense.

Nephthys
Why would Nihilus need to use a separate attack to kill the population when the drain is lethal in of itself? That doesn't make any sense.

Regardless, the feeding is not separate from him blasting them into ruins. Not only are you quibbling semantics, you're not even doing it correctly in the first place. For instance:

"The soldiers moved on, looting towns that they mercilessly sacked."

The two actions are not separate and take place simultaneously, are distinct yet come from the same action.

Vitiates drain proves that drain on that scale can drstroy buildings and no matter how much you moan that they're different, it still establishes that Nihilus drain could have caused the destruction. Which anyone with two working eyes could also tell you.

I'll respond to your other post tomorrow.

SunRazer
Vitiate's Drain isn't Nihilus' Drain. So I'll "moan" again - establish a precedent for NIHILUS' Drain destroying buildings. Because all of this stuff was written before Vitiate came into existence. Clearly Vitiate wasn't related to the author's intent. So without Vitiate as an example, is it even possible for you to formulate a case for the Drain destroying the buildings? You think the black thing is the Drain, yet the buildings are crumbling before the black thing even hits them.

Drain doesn't "blast worlds into ruin", anyway. erm It's clear that it's a separate effect.

Nephthys
Omg, how can such a smart person be so ****ing stupid. This has to be wilful at this point. You have to just be intentionally being difficult.

SunRazer
What if I am?

Beniboybling
Originally posted by SunRazer
2. Because apart from an appeal to ignorance, there's no basis for Vitiate learning the technique. The technique is derived from Malachor, which as Traya says, the Sith have forgotten about.Apart from his ability to use planetary drain. Like I said not really seeing a reason to believe its a different technique. I also asked what evidence there was this knowledge was restricted to Malachor.

https://media.giphy.com/media/EsmlrgWNx5v0Y/giphy.gif

Why are you reducing this to a single scan? Nihilus drained the entire planet lmao.

The entire sentence is written in past tense, so naw.

And you'll find that Nihilus needing to blast worlds into ruin to consume his targets is what doesn't add up.

SunRazer
1. You mean his ability to do that Void thing he did on Nathema, which isn't the same. So again, we're left with baseless speculation. Regardless, even if Vitiate did know that Drain, the one he showed on Ziost has more similarities with what he did on Nathema, which isn't the same as Nihilus' Drain.

And we only have documentation of the technique being learned from Malachor. If we take Kreia's word at face value that it was lost since the Ancient Sith, so Sadow couldn't have known it since his knowledge was passed down to Nadd and Kun. So Vitiate's chances of learning it are again diminished.

2. The buildings destroyed in that scan aren't destroyed from the excess energy of the entire planet, lol, just the vicinity. What about the buildings on the rest of the planet?

3. Not really. It's not hard to reconcile Telos, Onderon, Katarr and those worlds that get blasted into ruin.

And the TCSWE sentence still implies that he blasted the worlds into ruin first. There's no point in him doing it after, of course, and it's not the same because Drain doesn't blast worlds into ruin. So the logical conclusion would be that he blasted the worlds into ruin and then fed off their deaths.

Beniboybling
1. How is it not the same? You haven't specified any differences.

And I'm still waiting for this source saying only Malachor folk knew about it, Kreia as I recall referred to the ancient Sith in general. And who knows what Sadow, Nadd and Kun were capable of.

2. The destruction was caused by the magnitude of energy unleashed by planetary-tier drain. This is not hard to grasp.

3. Kreia says that the Force drain works by draining the Force connections of the targets, not burying them in rubble them gobbling up the remains.

And nah it doesn't, in fact.

SunRazer
1. Well, one's a ritual of Sith Sorcery, and the other isn't. Nihilus doesn't become immortal, and Nyriss observes that "Nathema is no longer a world", even though Visas claims that "my homeworld is still intact".

2. Yes, but the buildings in each area could only be destroyed by the "excess energy" released in the vicinity. A building at point X isn't going to be destroyed by energy released on the other side of the world.

Regardless, in no description of the technique in KotOR II is there a reference to to the user unleashing energy. Kreia literally describes it as the user drawing upon the Jedi's own strength to kill them, and then feeding on their death.

3. It must've been sloppy draining of Force connections to release so much energy to destroy those buildings. I mean, seriously, how does funneling energy into yourself destroy buildings?

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by SunRazer
1. Well, one's a ritual of Sith Sorcery, and the other isn't. Nihilus doesn't become immortal, and Nyriss observes that "Nathema is no longer a world", even though Visas claims that "my homeworld is still intact".
Sith Sorcery is just an umbrella term to describe stuff that is poorly understood.

Darth Nihilus's apocalyptic Force Drain is an example of Sith Sorcery (hint: the speaking aspect involved in it; he casts a spell or something).

Originally posted by SunRazer
2. Yes, but the buildings in each area could only be destroyed by the "excess energy" released in the vicinity. A building at point X isn't going to be destroyed by energy released on the other side of the world.

Regardless, in no description of the technique in KotOR II is there a reference to to the user unleashing energy. Kreia literally describes it as the user drawing upon the Jedi's own strength to kill them, and then feeding on their death.

3. It must've been sloppy draining of Force connections to release so much energy to destroy those buildings. I mean, seriously, how does funneling energy into yourself destroy buildings?
If Darth Nihilus draws power from the (target) world and channels it into his attack (like Abeloth), then destruction of that magnitude is possible from the excessive energy. Because the power of the planet is involved.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Sup LeG? smile

Nephthys
Originally posted by Beniboybling
3. Kreia says that the Force drain works by draining the Force connections of the targets, not burying them in rubble them gobbling up the remains.

thumb up

"It is a technique that is almost as old as the Sith themselves... it is a means of severing connections between life, the Force, and feeding upon the death it causes."

The technique causes the death.

SunRazer
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Sith Sorcery is just an umbrella term to describe stuff that is poorly understood.

Darth Nihilus's apocalyptic Force Drain is an example of Sith Sorcery (hint: the speaking aspect involved in it; he casts a spell or something).


If Darth Nihilus draws power from the (target) world and channels it into his attack (like Abeloth), then destruction of that magnitude is possible from the excessive energy. Because the power of the planet is involved.

1. The KotORCG confirms that the time of Sorcerers is gone by KotOR. The only ones remaining are the ones on Tund.

2. Channels what into an attack? The Drain is the attack.

SunRazer
Originally posted by Nephthys
thumb up

"It is a technique that is almost as old as the Sith themselves... it is a means of severing connections between life, the Force, and feeding upon the death it causes."

The technique causes the death.

She also says that the technique draws upon the Jedi's own strength to kill them, so if you're basing it off that then there's no reason for any of this "excess energy".

Nephthys
Your supposition is noted yet irrelevant.

SunRazer
You haven't responded to the prep thing. So far, there stands no basis for Drain actually causing the damage as opposed to something else.

Nephthys
Its the only thing that could cause it. There was no mechanical attack, and no need for any attack other than the drain. Do you seriously suggest Nihilus just smashed up the buildings with a separate, pointless attack for kicks like a child stomping sandcastles?

Beniboybling
But Force drain can't melt steel beams!

SunRazer
Originally posted by Nephthys
Its the only thing that could cause it. There was no mechanical attack, and no need for any attack other than the drain. Do you seriously suggest Nihilus just smashed up the buildings with a separate, pointless attack for kicks like a child stomping sandcastles?

I'm not suggesting it - TCSWE is. And we clearly see the buildings collapsing before people died.

Nephthys
It isn't, you're just interpreting it that way. And as it turns out, you were wrong. Get over it. You didn't answer my question btw, are you seriously suggesting that as a valid explanation? And yes we do genius, because the attack hadn't reached those people yet. Good jorb. thumb up

I'm not sure if you even expect us to take you seriously anymore. You're literally arguing against everything except your own opinions. We can literally see what happened and you're still trying to say it was different. We are told how the attack works and you are still suggesting its not true. We have only one explanation that makes sense and has support from other examples and your still being stubborn. You've even implied that you might just be ****ing with us.

Like, I'm pretty sure we're done here, man. erm

SunRazer
You still haven't responded to the other post like you promised, which is full of points that you haven't even addressed up to now. Whether Drain affects buildings or not is completely inconsequential to the main point - that he can't just rock up to a planet and instantly devour all life on it.

We're told the attack works, yeah - and nowhere is it stated or even implied that there's environmental or external damage of any sort, in any of the power's descriptions. On the other hand, TCSWE implies that the Drain is separate to the "blasting into ruin" part. Whereas you're making up this "excess energy" nonsense which has no basis and you think that's reasonable because it aligns with your stance.

Heck, you're even going against Beni's "excess energy" argument, in which case you don't even have an argument for Drain damaging buildings (Vitiate hadn't even been invented yet, so clearly he isn't a reliable basis, not to mention that the power he was using was different anyways).

S_W_LeGenD

S_W_LeGenD

SunRazer
Legend, the quote you brought up refers to feeding on death caused by severing connections between life and the Force. It literally says that in the quote.

Nevertheless, as a Wound in the Force, Nihilus is able to feed on the death of beings from any cause (just like Malachor V & the Exile).

Nephthys

Zenwolf
Does this really matter? Either way you look at it, it's still a great feat.

Nephthys
because he's wrong

NewGuy01
Originally posted by Nephthys
One of us has an English degree and it isn't you.

I do when you're be so very, very stupid.

laughing out loud

Nephthys
Writing something at work in-between stuff leads to typo's. Guilty as charged.

SunRazer
Originally posted by Nephthys
You've given me no reason to respond to your insane theories. They've been entirely debunked and you're just resorting to throwing a tantrum and complaining that things don't make sense. I hate to break it to you, by Space Magic isn't always internally consistent and logical.

You couldn't even properly debunk something that the game outright stated wasn't true, lol. As for the rest of it, it stands.



No, it's not proven. Your one instance of "Drain doing it" is when the buildings fall apart before Drain even hits them (or the people).



Vitiate's attack is Sith Sorcery and a ritual, whereas Nihilus isn't as per KotORCG. Sith Sorcery is indeed capable of damaging buildings. Drain doesn't affect them by definition.



Which doesn't matter seeing as he has no disregard for life anyways, and Visas outright says that if there are no Jedi on the planet, he will Drain it anyway to sate himself to whatever extent he can because he didn't come all this way for nothing.

There's no need for him to detect the Jedi, because, again, he can feed on life indiscriminately.



So are you just going to ignore the quote because you don't like it, or?



Right. Other than the SWTOR codex explicitly stating that he had to prepare for the Drain on Telos. You're trying to either twist the quotes to your perspective or ignore them completely when they don't suit you.



What other effects of the attack are you going to make up?



It's only insane because you apply some ridiculous no-limits fallacy to it and expect everyone to die.

Are you forgetting that Traya survived Nihilus' Drain despite his intent to kill her? Yes, that totally flies in the face of everything we know about. It's not an instant kill, you donkey. erm



There two Sith Lords on Onderon and the most they did was Choke and Lightning Vaklu's runaway soldiers. Yes, I'm sure they were able to feed on the planet. Not that, you know, feeding on entire planets is something that Nihilus would do. But if average joe Sith are able to do it, then that only raises everybody else in K2.

The ones on Dxun were trying to resurrect Freedon Nadd per the Prima Guide. Nothing to do with using Onderon to feed on itself.



Whinge harder, Nihilus' attack still isn't proven to affect buildings. You're in denial.



And not by you, so it's hilarious to see you run around as if you're dominating.



laughing out loud

You have no idea what anyone else's degree is, anyway.

Freedon Nadd
Vitiate's Nathema Ritual and Nihilus' Katarr drain are the same. Both left a Void in the Force.
So, yeah.

snoke123
"When my lord spoke, every living thing on Katarr died." - Visas

''However, when Nihilus neared the planet, he spoke, his voice a great hunger that the Miraluka could see and feel through the Force. The Sith Lord's hunger overwhelmed them and obliterated the surface of Katarr, wiping out the entire colony and anything else touched by the Force. Nihilus destroyed much of what remained of the Jedi Order, including the Jedi Masters Zhar Lestin, Dorak and Vandar Tokare'' - Wookieepedia

DarthAnt66
Did you just cite Wookieepedia, lmfao.

Freedon Nadd
Well, he spoke and drained at the same time. Done.

snoke123
all sources clearly state that: Nihilus approached the planet, he spoke and the whole planet died.

NewGuy01
>all sources agree with me
>can only cite wookipedia

laughing out loud

Freedon Nadd
There is a source that states that, though. :P

victreebelvictr
i doubt that he cant do it. if he was at full potential of course.

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