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As the title says.

I think the question should be asked what is the Weakest Ancient Sith that can beat Maul. Mauls mastery of Dathomiri spells was shown on Rebels to be top notch, he was able to unleash Nightsister spirits, learn of Obi same location (from star systems away), and had glowing green eyes. Clearly this makes him on par with Karness Muur, except better because he can now stalemate a possessed Kanan. Maul is truly an awesome sorcerer

implying

Maul was also able to telepathically contact Ezra from Dathomir and cause him to see illusions of himself. This is Valkorion tier Darkside mastery

Naga Sadow, perhaps.

Freedon Nadd, probably.

Nadd vs Novel Vitiate, azronger?

Nadd, obviously. That is if we factor out the nexus.

Lmfao.

Possibly Muur.

Maybe Vitiate.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Lmfao.

Feats for novel Vitiate on neutral ground?

Mindraping and severing a powerful Sith Lord at age nine, for one, lmfao.

10, actually. Is that the only one?

Vader is 80 percent of Palpatine's power, who not only is the strongest Sith Lord of all time but he also is a DS nexus so powerful that the entire Force is in an imbalance that dips the Galaxy within the Dark Side of the Force.

The Vader is 80% of Sidious's power thing is still going around? Huh.

I highly doubt that Vader is actually 80% of Palpatine, that would make Vader a lot more powerful than he ever displays being.

On topic though, Somebody like Naga Sadow should have a good shot at besting Vader, though it would be a close fight.

There isn't a single quantifiable metric for 80%, other than Lucas saying right after that that it makes Vader closer to Dooku or Maul than Palpatine.

He also said "maybe 80%" and it was in reference to potential.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
He also said "maybe 80%" and it was in reference to potential. It wasn't in reference to potential. Vader's power was still growing as of ANH-ROTJ.

Even Sidious thought Vader could eventually defeat him, because he wanted to continue the lineage of the Sith.

Which is why Sidious offered him a better suit that wouldn't restrict him and allow him to reach his full potential.

The more you post the less I think you've ever actually read Star Wars.

Prolly Sadow.

Originally posted by AncientPower
The more you post the less I think you've ever actually read Star Wars. Why else would Vader have been offered the suit?

Palpatine seems pissed when Anakin turns it down.

Palpatine has made it abundantly clear that he never dreamed of having post!Mustafar Vader surpass him.

Originally posted by SunRazer
There isn't a single quantifiable metric for 80%, other than Lucas saying right after that that it makes Vader closer to Dooku or Maul than Palpatine.

No, he outright stated it in one interview. I've posted the interview before.

Though, IIRC, he doesn't state "80%" but rather "four fifths" or something like that (which comes out to the same thing). I'll look around for it.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Palpatine has made it abundantly clear that he never dreamed of having post!Mustafar Vader surpass him.

Uh...

In Dark Lord, Palpatine believes Vader's limitations are merely mental and that Vader could still surpass him.

Yeh, but he makes it equally clear in works such as Book of Sith, that Vader was never actually going to replace him.

Tulak Hord or Revan (or Nihilus–that is, if he actually was weaker than either of them).

Neither of which are true.

Originally posted by ares834
No, he outright stated it in one interview. I've posted the interview before.

Though, IIRC, he doesn't state "80%" but rather "four fifths" or something like that (which comes out to the same thing). I'll look around for it.

I know he said it in an interview. I never contradicted that. I said there's no metric for it, meaning that you can't compare Vader's 80% with anybody else's percentages because they don't exist.

Exar, or maybe, maybe Ragnos or Nadd.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Yeh, but he makes it equally clear in works such as Book of Sith, that Vader was never actually going to replace him. Book of Sith is one of the few sources that depict Sidious' attitude to his apprentices that way. It's been popping up everywhere recently. Whenever anyone is discussing Sidious and have access to more recent, or canon sources, Book of Sith finds a way to contradict it.

I'm thinking the author of that book just has an outdated notion of Vader/Maul, and Sidious' intentions.

Legends!Sidious wanted to absorb the universe into his consciousness.

Initially, canon!Sidious appeared to be a bit more of a team player so to speak with regards to Sith philosophy, but now per Tarkin, he wants to rewrite reality in his image.

Don't let your dreams be dreams!

In regards to this thread: Naga Sadow.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
In regards to this thread: Naga Sadow.

How so?

No one short of Exar Kun can take him for a majority.

Regardless of where you want to rank their Force power when contrasted with the Dark Lord, I'm not seeing any of them circumventing his superior martial skills

I just think that based on his holistic standing as one of the most powerful sith lords in galactic history, (according to even Palpatine himself, and he's arguably the most powerful entombed on Korriban, according to Uthar Wynn,) his being the champion of ancient sith knowledge, (Kun and Nadd are his products,) and his vast superiority over the swordfighters of the KOTOR 2 era, lead me to believe that he could plausibly defeat Vader.

Never said anything about a majority, though.

Ah yes, that's quite a different story. Yeah, Sadow can win some micro-minority imo.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Palpatine has made it abundantly clear that he never dreamed of having post!Mustafar Vader surpass him. Then why did Sidious give him a new suit????

Vader turned it down.

Sidious had a new suit in construction by ROTJ, but idk if he told Vader about it

According to Stupendous Wave, Sidious wanted Vader to surpass him, so he offered Vader the new suit, and when Vader turned it down, Sidious got pissed.

No, I never actually read the story, but I can't see why someone who is supposed to be a SW Knowledge channel would lie.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
According to Stupendous Wave,
lmao

? Not sure where this info regarding Vader's new suit was coming from, but nowhere is it mentioned that Sidious offered him one. Just that he could be re-built but the procedure would kill him.



Which in hindsight seems kinda of stupid, given what Vader has survived but...yeah.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
According to Stupendous Wave, Sidious wanted Vader to surpass him, so he offered Vader the new suit, and when Vader turned it down, Sidious got pissed.

No, I never actually read the story, but I can't see why someone who is supposed to be a SW Knowledge channel would lie.



SW debating/knowledge on YouTube is mostly cancer. Trust me...

Originally posted by MythLord


SW debating/knowledge on YouTube is mostly cancer. Trust me... Oh I know.

But to blatantly say "Sidious did this in a Legends canon novel" is kind of stupid when nothing of the sort ever occured.

I mean, if you are shown to be someone who gives SW Knowledge to the people, then at least make the knowledge correct and sourced, not something you made up.

It wasn't even a theories video, dude was legit saying "Vader was offered a suit and turned it down, Sidious got angry because he wanted to continue the lineage of the sith".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iONsYGTu_UA

Skip to 4:00.

Does he at any point source and quote his claims? Or does the audience assume he is correct?

Originally posted by ILS
Does he at any point source and quote his claims? Or does the audience assume he is correct? I assumed he was correct just because he claims to be a source of knowledge and a lot of the stuff he says in his videos are accurate... except this, apparently.

Unless everyone is wrong and we just have never read that part of a novel.

The video as a source of facts is essentially worthless until he... provides facts. I got watching it and at no point does he refer to any material. Claiming to be a source of knowledge is by no means the same as being one.

StupendousWave is more cancerous than EvanNova. His fanboys think him as an authority on canon and even if a quote from a novel is presented they still say something along the lines of "Stupendous said this, stfu b-itch kys!!!111".

Are you still debating on YouTube, Az?

I just posted the source/quote.

Originally posted by MythLord
Are you still debating on YouTube, Az?

When someone posts on an old comment chain, I usually respond. I don't seek out new comments anymore, though.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
I just posted the source/quote. huh? why u always be lyin smh 😒

Originally posted by Azronger
When someone posts on an old comment chain, I usually respond. I don't seek out new comments anymore, though.

Oh, well that's smart. I avoid YouTube Star Wars debating like the plague.

Tbh I recently encountered someone who claimed Malgus would beat Galen due to experience. When I asked what he thought of Vader being defeated by Galen despite having more experience by that point he said Malgus's experience was better. When I asked him why he thought that he said because Malgus had fought in a war. When I asked him why he thought fighting fodder soldiers with Jedi sprinkled throughout was better then actively hunting down opposing Force users for nearly 2 decades in regards to useful experience facing other Force users he said Jensarai said so.

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Tbh I recently encountered someone who claimed Malgus would beat Galen due to experience. When I asked what he thought of Vader being defeated by Galen despite having more experience by that point he said Malgus's experience was better. When I asked him why he thought that he said because Malgus had fought in a war. When I asked him why he thought fighting fodder soldiers with Jedi sprinkled throughout was better then actively hunting down opposing Force users for nearly 2 decades in regards to useful experience facing other Force users he said Jensarai said so.

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

YouTube SW debating in a nutshell. Fun fact, everyone on there has facts breast-fed to them from a fat Canadian nipple, then they accuse us of following the guidelines set by Tempest and Silver, and going by that alone.

Originally posted by MythLord
then they accuse us of following the guidelines set by Tempest and Silver, and going by that alone. People who reside on youtube know that much about the forums?

People following Silver and Temp, while people who conform too much kinda suck, Temp and Silver are at least top tier debaters. It's the people who used to worship JediXMan whose honestly kinda shit that get to me.

How's that Dmb?

JediXMan is a shit tier debater but because Silver treated him as an equal he was treated as a god.