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Sidious and Luke as of Dark Empire. Battle takes place atop a pile of TotJ limited gloss editions.

Either of team 1 solo.

Team 2.

Kun can take on Sidious while Luke gets clowned by Ulic.

I am not even sure if Neph is serious with this sh!t, lmfao.

OT: Sidious solo's easily.

Ulic is far more powerful than Luke.

Either memeber of team 1 solos

Nah, alone Luke would get his shit pushed in by this team. Team 1 wins every time, though.

DE sidious could solo surely?

Sidious solos

also lmao @ Ulic being anywhere near luke at this point

Originally posted by Ursumeles
OT: Sidious solos easily.

Team 1. Sidious blitzes Ulic whilst Luke holds off Kun, then Kun gets creamed.

Luke has better feats than Ulic does in Dark Empire. Luke manhandling an AT AT>>Ulics performance against a Basilisk war droid by far.

Ah OT wank at its finest.

If any of you think I actually believe Kun > Sidious or Ulic > Luke then you're incredibly naive. On the contrary, I just find the squealing and moaning abut the very concept that Sheev could possibly be challenged, incredibly amusing.

The amount of investment in your own collective head canon is the best part.

So you are saying you are a troll?

I'm an anarchist. Status quoing, for lack of a better term, is actually against forum rules. Which is what the Sheev brigade has been attempting to establish for ten years.

Originally posted by AncientPower
I'm an anarchist.

You misspelled schizophrenic.

Luke alone would get raped by Kun's sorcery, lal. Did any of you guys read the JA trilogy?

Sidious carries his team to a win regardless.

That's what I was going to say.

Though Sidious vs Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma in their primes would be a very interesting encounter.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Luke alone would get raped by Kun's sorcery, lal. Did any of you guys read the JA trilogy?



He could probably find a way to deal with Droma until Palpatine finishes wiping the floor with Exar, though.

Yeah. Or Palpatine blitzes Ulic whilst Kun meddles with Luke's head.

Luke would curb Ulic without much difficulty

Since when is Palpatine blitzing Sith as powerful and fast as Ulic?

Kun wouldn't just meddle with Luke's head, lol.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Since when is Palpatine blitzing Sith as powerful and fast as Ulic?

Kun wouldn't just meddle with Luke's head, lol.

Since his TFU incarnation blitzed Galen Marek, never mind his DE version

Whatever he does, it'll take longer than Palpatine will to decimate Qel-Droma.

Palpatine isn't blitzing Droma, wtf is this rofl.

Nice DS ending content you have there.

Ulic, whilst being constantly sapped by Onderon's Dark Side nexus and Warb Null's Force Suppression attempt, blitzed Null. A master of the dark side and excellent warrior, who could sense and react to an imminent decapitation attempt by a Jedi Master almost as fast as thought, with the combative memories and knowledge of Freedon Nadd. As well as five of Ommin's Krath Warriors. Not to mention nigh-blitzing Ommin, who caused the immense dark side nexus across Onderon with his sorcery, whilst easily maintaining his spell over Arca Jeth, whilst one-shotting Nomi Sunrider with telepathy, whilst dominating the minds of millions of Onderonians. That was before Ulic gained the powers of the dark side, before he stalemated Exar Kun, which was before he gained tremendous powers of the dark side and transformed into a 'Warrior Magus' much more powerful than he'd ever been before.

Pretty sure he isn't getting blitzed, he'll hold his own long enough for Kun to stomp Luke with sorcery before Kun can interfere and save him.

A few story differences don't change power levels. I've held that stance for all games.

Galen Marek was faster than Vader, and this was a Palpatine before his Force skills increased considerably.

If it doesn't amount to a blitz, it certainly amounts to something very close to one. Palpatine is still destroying Qel-Droma before Kun can defeat Luke.

It changes how powerful Galen himself is, because IIRC the novel makes it pretty damn clear that retraining as a Jedi made him more focused and powerful. So no, it isn't just 'a few story differences'.

Galen still retrains as a Jedi in the DS version, lol. The only difference is that he does strike Vader down, and then attempts to blitz Palpatine and fails. The only difference is what happens after Vader's beaten. And that's not enough to make a significant difference seeing as right before that, Galen was still faster than Vader.

And you're forgetting that DE Palpatine is both more powerful than his RotJ incarnation (who in turn is more powerful than his TFU incarnation), and his Force skills have improved considerably since RotJ. It easily takes care of whatever possible disparity there would be between whether Galen goes LS or DS - not that there is a noticeable one to begin with.

he didnt even blitz him wtf

In the PS2/Wii version, he ends their bladelock by throwing away his lightsaber and then he hurls Marek before the latter even moves. If you're making people look like they stand still, that's a blitz.

Yeh I just watched it, he doesn't blitz him. Better yet, the attack doesn't even appear to harm him much, if at all.

Kun needs barely any time at all to incapacitate/kill Luke with sorcery before he's joining his apprentice.

1. It was supposed to get rid of him, not harm him. And yes, it's a blitz. Marek literally doesn't even manage to move when Palpatine throws away his lightsaber, and Marek's blade was close enough that a slight nudge would've cut through Palpatine's body.

2. He needs a prolonged spell.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
he didnt even blitz him wtf

To me it looks more like he was surprised that he'd thrown away his saber at all.

How, exactly? He and Kyp overwhelmed a more powerful Luke in JA in like a minute, given the context. A prime Kun has Force blast, Tendrils. . . . you name it, he's f*cking him up with it.

Originally posted by SunRazer
In the PS2/Wii version, he ends their bladelock by throwing away his lightsaber and then he hurls Marek before the latter even moves. If you're making people look like they stand still, that's a blitz.
not a blitz

We all know how well those blast worked on Aleema Keto, and how his sorcery worked on force sensitives in the senate. Oh wait!

1. Surprised? How so?

2. Yeah - a minute. Most duels don't last that long - and they certainly won't with the discrepancy between Palpatine and Qel-Droma.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
not a blitz

It is. Galen practically didn't even move in the time between Palpatine throwing away his saber and the Force attack.

You mean the blast he casually knocked Aleema out with, before glowing with more power than any of her magic has ever afforded her? Sure.

You mean when he casually hypnotized tens of thousands of people whils stomping Vodo? Sure.

Originally posted by SunRazer
It is. Galen practically didn't even move in the time between Palpatine throwing away his saber and the Force attack.
Why did he need to? He's not trying to dodge the attack, he's trying to form a Force barrier, which doesn't require physical movement.

Originally posted by SunRazer
1. Surprised? How so?

2. Yeah - a minute. Most duels don't last that long - and they certainly won't with the discrepancy between Palpatine and Qel-Droma.

People don't tend to throw away their only weapon.

If even that? The only time context we get is that Luke throws his weapon away, meditates and uses every defensive application of the Force he knew whilst Kyp attacked him, he goes to counter Kyp but Kun intervened and attacked him as well, rendering him comatose.

That's a limited and weakened spirit Kun as well, prime Kun is undoubtedly reacting much faster. If he even needs tendrils.

Originally posted by AncientPower
You mean the blast he casually knocked Aleema out with, before glowing with more power than any of her magic has ever afforded her? Sure.

You mean when he casually hypnotized tens of thousands of people whils stomping Vodo? Sure.

No I mean how weak his blasts are that they can barely knock someone down, and how his elite Sorcery couldn't beat a Tree Jedi and failed to even affect force users. But keep ignoring how inconsistent he is to push your ridiculous bias lmao

Originally posted by AncientPower
Nice DS ending content you have there.

Lmao, says the one who uses DS, LS, moddes content from KotOR II.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Why did he need to? He's not trying to dodge the attack, he's trying to form a Force barrier, which doesn't require physical movement.

Because he's so close to the Emperor that he could just strike him down on the spot with his lightsaber. That's what he'd be doing. Plus, the Emperor throws away his saber in the middle of a bladelock, so Galen should've still been pushing forwards.

Originally posted by AncientPower
People don't tend to throw away their only weapon.

If even that? The only time context we get is that Luke throws his weapon away, meditates and uses every defensive application of the Force he knew whilst Kyp attacked him, he goes to counter Kyp but Kun intervened and attacked him as well, rendering him comatose.

That's a limited and weakened spirit Kun as well, prime Kun is undoubtedly reacting much faster. If he even needs tendrils.

1. Well, to be honest, throwing away your lightsaber in the middle of a bladelock is basically allowing somebody to move their blade forwards. Galen's muscles would still be trying to push ahead. So he should've still cleaved the Emperor in two, but Palpatine hurled him away before even his instinctive movement could happen. That's a blitz.

2. In any case, it's a protracted spell that's longer than Palpatine vs Qel-Droma. I don't see why Palpatine can't just ragdoll him either.

Originally posted by carthage
No I mean how weak his blasts are that they can barely knock someone down, and how his elite Sorcery couldn't beat a Tree Jedi and failed to even affect force users. But keep ignoring how inconsistent he is to push your ridiculous bias lmao

She was knocked out and would've been insignificant in the hours long exchange between Ulic and Kun.

He didn't even try to kill Ood Bnar, he was about to be hit by a super nova and had an entire trove of 'more knowledge than he could ever need' waiting on his ship.

'Failed to effect Force users' he wasn't targeting. Like he specifically targeted the senate and kept tens of thousands of them frozen whilst he stomped Vodo, who is more powerful than f*cking Thon.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Lmao, says the one who uses DS, LS, moddes content from KotOR II.

I've never used DS KOTOR II content, that's SunRazer.

Originally posted by SunRazer
1. Well, to be honest, throwing away your lightsaber in the middle of a bladelock is basically allowing somebody to move their blade forwards. Galen's muscles would still be trying to push ahead. So he should've still cleaved the Emperor in two, but Palpatine hurled him away before even his instinctive movement could happen. That's a blitz.

2. In any case, it's a protracted spell that's longer than Palpatine vs Qel-Droma. I don't see why Palpatine can't just ragdoll him either.

Except your entire argument is hinged on that assumption, which could be wrong as Ant is saying.

A potracted spell? You're making more assumptions, Kun's blasts were instant and were hitting almost as quickly in the Audio Drama.

I'm still seeing nothing suggesting he's blitzing Ulic, whose speed feats are frankly more impressive than Galen's. Esecially if we consider the fact that Galen's best speed feats are against a Vader who has been implied to not even be going all-out, or even really cares.

I'm all for using obscure content, but speculating from a DS Wii version of something and then using it to say Palpatine can blitz Marek-tier beings is borderline insanity.

And I have Palps higher than Valk or GM Luke.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I'm all for using obscure content, but speculating from a DS Wii version of something

It's the Wii, PS2 and PSP versions of the game - so actually the majority of the game editions.



Firstly, you talking about insanity? After trying to put Revan up with Vitiate because he got smoked? lol

And why not? This is a more powerful version of Sidious than the one in RotS, who struck down two Masters before Mace could react. Not saying he blitzes Mace, but if he's able to do that, then blitzing Marek-tier characters isn't really as insane as you're making it out to be.



That... doesn't matter, lol.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Except your entire argument is hinged on that assumption, which could be wrong as Ant is saying.

I think we can assume that Galen was trying to overpower Sidious in the bladelock and not just holding his lightsaber up there for show.

There's also the RotS feat I mentioned above, and Palpatine blitzing Maul in Shadow Conspiracy. Both instances being from well before TFU.



The one in JA was protracted.



Vader was caring after a while.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Ah OT wank at its finest.

If any of you think I actually believe Kun > Sidious or Ulic > Luke then you're incredibly naive. On the contrary, I just find the squealing and moaning abut the very concept that Sheev could possibly be challenged, incredibly amusing.

The amount of investment in your own collective head canon is the best part. What an astounding lack of self awareness you've developed there.

Nova, even disregarding the fact that the scene you're using to make your argument is non canon and thus posseses no bearing on anything, Sidious force pushes Marek in the midst of a blade lock. It shows Sidious turning off his lightsaber and while the blade is shutting off Sidious dropping the hilt and using a force push that sends Galen flying back.

Since you probably won't accept the fact that it's an animation error then we have to ask why Sidious would logically do this? Well for starters shutting off his blade while in a blade lock is not only going to surprise his opponent but also off balance him. If he did manage to blitz him as your suggesting then that means Marek wouldn't have been able to actively shield himself. And if Marek did manage to actively shield himself then Sidious isn't capable of actually blitzing someone of that tier. Even assuming the former it's unlikely that Galen wouldn't have reacted because Sidious was too fast for him but for the reasons stated above.

In either case ( Galen having put up an active barrier or it just being a passive barrier ) Sidious didn't demonstrate telekinetic domination only managing to blast Galen back. In the former case it confirms his inability to blitz an opponent of Galen's power and in the latter it means that he can only push back a Galen level Force user who wasn't even actively shielding himself. And in that case it would still be unlikely that Sidious landing a Force push was because he was too fast for Marek to react.

It should be made clear that all of that's utterly irrelevant as the events you're referencing never took place and have no bearing on anything.

As Mace couldn't react as Sidious slaughtered Agen and Saesee, I think Ulic should last a few seconds at best against DE Sidious.

Tbh I place Ulic a bit above Mace myself.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
As Mace couldn't react as Sidious slaughtered Agen and Saesee, I think Ulic should last a few seconds at best against DE Sidious.

And Ulic never blitzed Warb Null, lol.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Nova, even disregarding the fact that the scene you're using to make your argument is non canon and thus posseses no bearing on anything

You already know how I view this stuff, lol. Non-canon means it doesn't happen in the official timeline. But it's valid because the character's power levels haven't been altered. We're not here to discuss what did happen, but rather, what can happen, with regard to the character's power levels.



If you watch it in slow-motion, you'll notice that Palpatine deactivates the lightsaber, then throws away the lightsaber, then hurls Galen. The last two were possibly done in simultaneity, but my case isn't altered. Sidious deactivating his lightsaber means that Galen's application of pressure would make him continue to move forwards, but Sidious hurled him back before that could happen.

Don't you obsess over physics? If so, this is really just inertia. Palpatine deactivating his lightsaber means that there's no longer a force balancing out the pushing force Galen's putting on his lightsaber, so it should move forwards. And since they were so close, Palpatine should've been cleaved in half, but he managed to push Galen back before that.

Watch it at 0.25x speed. Sidious deactivates his lightsaber, and before Galen or his lightsaber can even move forwards, Sidious is hurling him back.



What animation error?

My case would suggest that Galen isn't actively shielding himself, which is fine since Sidious isn't even hurling with the intent to kill, just to leave him on the floor for a while. Which is precisely what happens. Galen only gets up and starts running after the ship starts coming towards him, by which time it's too late.



The use of the word "unlikely" seems to suggest that you're admitting my case is a possibility at the least.

In any case, Galen wouldn't have been able to put up an active defense. Which doesn't harm my point. Sidious was only attacking to floor Galen, and he succeeded. Nowhere did I mention telekinetic domination. That only appears in another DS version.

it was an animation error!!111!

Sheev blitzes both Kun and Ulic if we use the Darth Maul scaling.

Originally posted by SunRazer
You already know how I view this stuff, lol. Non-canon means it doesn't happen in the official timeline. But it's valid because the character's power levels haven't been altered. We're not here to discuss what did happen, but rather, what can happen, with regard to the character's power levels.



If you watch it in slow-motion, you'll notice that Palpatine deactivates the lightsaber, then throws away the lightsaber, then hurls Galen. The last two were possibly done in simultaneity, but my case isn't altered. Sidious deactivating his lightsaber means that Galen's application of pressure would make him continue to move forwards, but Sidious hurled him back before that could happen.

Don't you obsess over physics? If so, this is really just inertia. Palpatine deactivating his lightsaber means that there's no longer a force balancing out the pushing force Galen's putting on his lightsaber, so it should move forwards. And since they were so close, Palpatine should've been cleaved in half, but he managed to push Galen back before that.

Watch it at 0.25x speed. Sidious deactivates his lightsaber, and before Galen or his lightsaber can even move forwards, Sidious is hurling him back.



What animation error?

My case would suggest that Galen isn't actively shielding himself, which is fine since Sidious isn't even hurling with the intent to kill, just to leave him on the floor for a while. Which is precisely what happens. Galen only gets up and starts running after the ship starts coming towards him, by which time it's too late.



The use of the word "unlikely" seems to suggest that you're admitting my case is a possibility at the least.

In any case, Galen wouldn't have been able to put up an active defense. Which doesn't harm my point. Sidious was only attacking to floor Galen, and he succeeded. Nowhere did I mention telekinetic domination. That only appears in another DS version.

That's directly disproved by stuff like the RotS videogame having Anakin cut down Sidious before he can react.

The lightsaber visibly deactivates in the animation ( Hint: This is the reference to the animation error ) and takes longer to do so then Sidious's movement. The last two movements were done simultaneously, yes. It would unbalance him and any forward movement wouldn't have been some augmented strike but simply gravity causing him to fall forward due to the pressure he had been previous applying.

Given the blade was still activated as Sidious releases a Force push it becomes irrelevant. It's obvious that Sidious's actions here were simultaneous. There would have been no time for Galen to have fallen or moved forward whether he knew what was about to happen or as you suggested, did not.

Yes, I've watched it. The very moment the lightsaber blades no longer touch each other is when Sidious moves. The movement and full deactivation of the blade are simultaneous.

Read above.

Fair enough. Now you just have to prove that what occurred in the scene you're referencing counts as blitzing. A far more herculean task...

I mean. Given the outcome is meaningless since it's a non canon scene and I'm generally open to ANY case when enough evidence is presented, I guess you could say that.

You've got quite your pick of the crop what with you taking DS endings as evidence and their being 3 different darkside endings for you to pick and choose from.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
it was an animation error!!111!

The fact that the deactivation of Sidious's lightsaber wasn't instantaneous as lightsabers have been shown to be in numerous other depictions? Beni, I know you live off of getting a rise from me but could you at least keep your trolling relevant? Thanks.

Using non-canon material as evidence...

facepalm

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
That's directly disproved by stuff like the RotS videogame having Anakin cut down Sidious before he can react.

This directly disproves the legitimacy of DS endings how...? Sounds to me like the only contradiction is with your own personal narrative, friend.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
This directly disproves the legitimacy of DS endings how...? Sounds to me like the only contradiction is with your own personal narrative, friend.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
This directly disproves the legitimacy of DS endings how...? Sounds to me like the only contradiction is with your own personal narrative, friend.

Forgot how much this forum rides Anakin's cock.

Alright then, how about the Hero of Tython ragdolling Vitiate?

He was already beaten though, it's not hard to ragdoll a defeated opponent.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
He was already beaten though, it's not hard to ragdoll a defeated opponent.

Even after he's defeated in the lightside version he's still capable of collapsing temples.

There's also stuff like Jaden Korr defeating Kyle in lightsaber combat.

Per Nova's shitty logic---Talzin is now < Plo.

Congrats, dude.

Is that to Shooting Nova or me?

The one saying non-canon sources can be used, because the power levels are the same.

By that logic, Vs articles and Head-To-Head results should also be valid, since, authorially, the characters being used are supposed to mirror canon ones.

Thus, congrats. Maris Brood shits on Ventress, and Plo is > Talzin.

Team 1 with moderate difficulty.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
The one saying non-canon sources can be used, because the power levels ae the same.

By that logic, Vs articles and Head-To-Head results should also be used,m since authorially, the characters being used are supposed to mirror canon ones.

Thus, congrats. Marris Brood shits on Ventress, and Plo is > Talzin.

Noice.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Thus, congrats. Maris Brood shits on Ventress, and Plo is > Talzin.

Where were these stated?

Originally posted by Azronger
Where were these stated?

One Maris V Ventress] of the Star Wars Insiders magazines Vs Series articles, and the other Plo V Talzin] is from Star Wars Head-To-Head Clone Wars edition.

Some of those VS matchups are more likely than those dumb Head to Head ones though when you look at everything about the characters. Not saying all, but some do make more sense than others.

I can agree with that, yeah. Dooku > Maul isn't bad at all. Or Boba > Cad Bane.

Luke > Galen Marek is alright, though I don't see how Skywalker could counter Galen Force advantage.

Head-to-head isn't the same as the endings of a game, lol. Whoever developed the game wrote both endings, so unless you think they suddenly developed a bout of amnesia and wrote the characters and their power levels differently, then it stands. Which is why Syn is finding it so hard to find an example of a DS ending that doesn't work, lol.

Magazine versus editions aren't written by the original authors, and they certainly aren't written inside the original source material. That's the difference. DS endings still come from the source material.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Which is why Syn is finding it so hard to find an example of a DS ending that doesn't work, lol.

I've provided 3 that you haven't deigned to respond to.

The Hero ragdolled a nearly dead Vitiate, who was already weakened. Not that hard to believe.

Anakin killing Sidious? More likely than anything else Sidious just didn't expect it. It's like Krayt and Cade. Sidious was too carried away by the smell of victory to comprehend the possibility of a betrayal. It's a "blitz" in the same way that RotJ Vader grabbed Sidious and hoisted him up before he could react.

Jaden beating Kyle? Why not? He's embraced the dark side, and they're fighting on a DS nexus with Jaden having the Scepter of Ragnos. Kyle is pre-prime as well.

Exar Kun as a mere spirit defeated Luke by lending his power to Kyp Durron and Sith spirits are considered to be powerless compared to their living selves. He nearly ripped out Luke's spirit from his body as well. Living Kun would one shot Luke Skywalker and he and Ulic would trounce Palpatine.

Originally posted by SunRazer
The Hero ragdolled a nearly dead Vitiate, who was already weakened. Not that hard to believe.

Anakin killing Sidious? More likely than anything else Sidious just didn't expect it. It's like Krayt and Cade. Sidious was too carried away by the smell of victory to comprehend the possibility of a betrayal. It's a "blitz" in the same way that RotJ Vader grabbed Sidious and hoisted him up before he could react.

Jaden beating Kyle? Why not? He's embraced the dark side, and they're fighting on a DS nexus with Jaden having the Scepter of Ragnos. Kyle is pre-prime as well.

A Vitiate who even in that state was capable of temple busting and returning to power by driving a populace mad.

Jaden beat him in a lightsaber bout prior to using the Scepter of Ragnos.

Your excuses are pitiful.

1. Vitiate wasn't capable of returning to power then, lol. That's why he went into hibernation. He didn't bust the Temple, either. He just brought down the Inner Sanctum with repeated tremors. Also, he does that after you kill him, as a spirit (in the DS one).

I don't see how this makes it harder to believe that the HoT, who's supposed to be the most powerful Jedi, can ragdoll him on his deathbed.

2. Yeah, with a two-way environmental advantage. Nothing wrong there. Kyle's best dueling feat at this point is beating Sariss. Also, is it specifically said to be dueling?

3. Well, you've accepted one of them.

Let's not forget that this 'temple buster' also didn't do anything to stop the horse-sized rock from falling on and crushing him.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Let's not forget that this 'temple buster' also didn't do anything to stop the horse-sized rock from falling on and crushing him.



The collapsing of the Inner Sanctum is separate and Vitiate does it as he departs his body.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Well, you've accepted one of them.

I haven't accepted any of them because none of them occurred. You have nothing.

Originally posted by SunRazer


The collapsing of the Inner Sanctum is separate and Vitiate does it as he departs his body.

Vitiate would be even weaker in spirit form then when possessing the body of one of his Voices.

Eh, depends. As a Voice, his power is also dispersed among all his other servants. Following the Voice's death, I imagine all of Vitiate's power was returned and concentrated into the spirit.

"As a Voice, his power is also dispersed among all his other servants."

Quote?

SWTORE, I imagine. Vitiate had dozens of servants operating for him, in which he held varying degrees of influence over them.

Plus, final acts like Vitiate's destruction of part of the temple are always going to be greater than what you're dishing out in combat.

Please provide it then.

If Vitiate relocates to another Voice but his power resets upon being ousted from a body then he would have had to re-partisan his power after moving into a new Voice body. It seems rather unlikely that he'd do this when he's weakened in the first place.

And if it doesn't reset then that would mean his power would remain with those he was empowering until he took it back.

And that's fine, but then a substantially greater amount of power then whatever the Voice held at the time is going to be required to ragdoll him as the HoT did.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I haven't accepted any of them because none of them occurred. You have nothing.

You failed to respond to one, so I assume you accepted it. In any case, we may as well just agree to disagree, since I know there's never going to be a fruitful outcome from this, lol.

And none of us are debating what occurred. We're debating what can occur - given that this entire forum is dedicated to hypothetical scenarios, lmfao.

No I didn't accept it. Sidious lowering his guard against Anakin who he can read like an open book is a laughably poor excuse which is why I didn't bother to respond to it.

In any debate forum you debate what CAN occur and what is MOST LIKELY to occur based off what DID occur.

To use what non canon events as evidence for what CAN occur and what will MOST LIKELY occur in a hypothetical scenario is asinine.

Just like Krayt could read Cade like an open book? Just like RotJ Emperor could read Vader like an open book? Letting your guard down is practically PIS, and it happens when you think it's over. And the Emperor does nothing in the RotS game anyway so I have no idea why you're trying to pass it off as an inconsistency of some kind. The RotS game characters' power levels are completely different to standard continuity. Anakin > Mace (which is going to be different for you at least), Drallig is a challenge for Anakin, Obi-Wan's very close to Anakin, etc.

What's most likely to happen is our opinion. What can occur is based on analysis of evidence, and we don't need to analyze much considering we have the source material blatantly saying it to us. Using events from the original source material is perfectly valid for discussing potential outcomes. There's nothing asinine about using the exact same material that you use for all of Galen's feats.

What's most likely to happen can be estimated by feats and logical scaling.

There are some areas that are opinion based as there is no clear answer like the specific power levels of the Ancients, etc. Using non canon events as evidence to back up a point is not one of those grey areas.

Nova, you need to understand something. Just because something comes from a source that has official and relevant information doesn't mean that the item in question will itself be relevant or official. A good example being author opinions ( maybe not so good because you seem to take those too ).

1. Indeed, and that's why I'm using a feat to make my judgment. And scaling (refer to my comparisons with Mace and Maul).

2. I didn't reference any dubious areas at all, so I have no idea what you're referring to.

3. If it's the original source material, then it's as valid as everything else in the same source material - especially because it's the same author. It's not like a magazine where you have a bunch of different authors throwing in random stuff.

4. I don't take author opinions as fact, lmfao. Maybe that's why I debate against Plagueis > Sidious, Malak > Revan in sabers or Revan trashing the Exile and Kreia. I might make a passing reference to them occasionally, but I've ran an entire campaign against Ant thinking author opinions are incontrovertible fact. You seriously don't even know my perspectives on these things, and you're already accusing me? lmfao You've smoked your own credibility.

That aside, author quotes come from emails and forum posts, not the original source material (which would be the book or the game).

Originally posted by SunRazer
Just like Krayt could read Cade like an open book? Just like RotJ Emperor could read Vader like an open book? Letting your guard down is practically PIS, and it happens when you think it's over. And the Emperor does nothing in the RotS game anyway so I have no idea why you're trying to pass it off as an inconsistency of some kind. The RotS game characters' power levels are completely different to standard continuity. Anakin > Mace (which is going to be different for you at least), Drallig is a challenge for Anakin, Obi-Wan's very close to Anakin, etc.

What's most likely to happen is our opinion. What can occur is based on analysis of evidence, and we don't need to analyze much considering we have the source material blatantly saying it to us. Using events from the original source material is perfectly valid for discussing potential outcomes. There's nothing asinine about using the exact same material that you use for all of Galen's feats.

What are you talking about?

Krayt and Cade fought in an open battle and Krayt hadn't spent years manipulating and molding Cade to become the person he was.

RotJ Vader never had an open relationship with the Emperor after RotS and was plotting to destroy him for nearly two decades. Granted Sidious was aware of this fact but he had no reason to think that Vader would betray him given all the other times he'd foiled Vader's attempts he had folded to him. Sidious's downfall occurred because he couldn't understand love. Not the love Luke had for his father or the love Vader still had for Luke even after decades of perversion in the Darkside.

"The RotS game characters' power levels are completely different to standard continuity. Anakin > Mace (which is going to be different for you at least), Drallig is a challenge for Anakin, Obi-Wan's very close to Anakin, etc."

THAT'S THE ENTIRE POINT!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

Non canon events do not accurately portray power levels. YOU JUST SAID IT YOURSELF!!!

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
What are you talking about?

Krayt and Cade fought in an open battle and Krayt hadn't spent years manipulating and molding Cade to become the person he was.

RotJ Vader never had an open relationship with the Emperor and was plotting to destroy him. Granted Sidious was aware of this but he had no reason to think that the man Vader had once been would resurface given who he had become.

Krayt had just implanted visions of Cade's future into his mind. Obviously he would assume he knew what Cade was thinking.

Sidious is constantly reading Vader's mind, lol. That he failed to do so at that critical point is PIS.



Calm down, lol. I said the RotS game doesn't portray characters in the same way as, say, the RotS novel or something. But it's still consistent with itself. There's no contradiction within itself.

And that's my point. The DS ending of TFU was not made to be independent or contradictory to the game itself. So the Galen in the DS ending is the same Galen as the one in the LS ending, and the same goes for Palpatine.

The difference being that the entirety of the RotS game isn't canon, not just the DS ending. Whereas TFU is canon, and it's not in its own pocket universe like the RotS game. The RotS game was never meant to be belong in the same universe as everything else (notice that's why I never bring up RotS game feats in general). TFU was. So the RotS DS ending keeps in step with itself, the RotS game, which is its own pocket universe anyway, with its own character power levels, its own events, etc. Whereas the TFU DS ending keeps in step with itself, being TFU, which is part of continuity. The same applies to KotOR, KotOR II or TOR. Or the JK series or any other canon game that is part of Legends continuity and not its own pocket universe with its own power levels.

Originally posted by SunRazer
1. Indeed, and that's why I'm using a feat to make my judgment. And scaling (refer to my comparisons with Mace and Maul).

2. I didn't reference any dubious areas at all, so I have no idea what you're referring to.

3. If it's the original source material, then it's as valid as everything else in the same source material - especially because it's the same author. It's not like a magazine where you have a bunch of different authors throwing in random stuff.

4. I don't take author opinions as fact, lmfao. Maybe that's why I debate against Plagueis > Sidious, Malak > Revan in sabers or Revan trashing the Exile and Kreia. I might make a passing reference to them occasionally, but I've ran an entire campaign against Ant thinking author opinions are incontrovertible fact. You seriously don't even know my perspectives on these things, and you're already accusing me? lmfao You've smoked your own credibility.

That aside, author quotes come from emails and forum posts, not the original source material (which would be the book or the game).

1. Except it never actually happened making it unusable. The difference between you and I is that you seem to believe the non canon events hold an authority of some kind when they don't.

2. Referencing non canon events is not only referencing a dubious area but one that has no validity on any level.

3. And that's where you and I disagree. A game is going to try to suit the needs and interests of the player first beyond anything. A non canon story path occurs in nearly all Star Wars games. A game creator doesn't care what happens in the non canon story path as long as it's mildly interesting because IT HAS NO BEARING ON CONTINUITY.

4. I really don't care what your stances on author opinions are. I care that you seem to think that because accurate and relevant information comes from a work all information that exists within that work is both accurate and relevant.

u seem to be missing the point of his argument

1. The things we debate in these forums have never happened and probably will never happen in continuity, either. That doesn't invalidate them. We discuss what can happen, not what did.

I don't think there's any sort of "authority" with non-canon material. Just equivalent veracity to material in the same source. We're not discussing authority, we're discussing reliability.

2. According to you. I see it differently. Hence, my offer to agree to disagree on the grounds of irreconcilable differences stands.

3. Game creators do care about consistency within their own game, at the very least. They may not care about the rest of continuity, but they'll try to care about consistency within their own game. It's laughable to assume that they're willing to change power levels and everything on a whim. You're basically saying that we can't take anything in video games at all because they're all subject to change on the whim of the creator.

4. Yes, I do. All information that exists within a single creator's work (ie. not including author quotes, which are separate from the original source material) has equal value and is assumed to be consistent until disputed. And this dispute clearly can't be resolved, so again, agree to disagree. It's just that our fundamental view of these things is too different to ever reconcile.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
u seem to be missing the point of his argument

Thank you.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Krayt had just implanted visions of Cade's future into his mind. Obviously he would assume he knew what Cade was thinking.

Sidious is constantly reading Vader's mind, lol. That he failed to do so at that critical point is PIS.



Calm down, lol. I said the RotS game doesn't portray characters in the same way as, say, the RotS novel or something. But it's still consistent with itself. There's no contradiction within itself.

And that's my point. The DS ending of TFU was not made to be independent or contradictory to the game itself. So the Galen in the DS ending is the same Galen as the one in the LS ending, and the same goes for Palpatine.

The difference being that the entirety of the RotS game isn't canon, not just the DS ending. Whereas TFU is canon, and it's not in its own pocket universe like the RotS game. The RotS game was never meant to be belong in the same universe as everything else (notice that's why I never bring up RotS game feats in general). TFU was. So the RotS DS ending keeps in step with itself, the RotS game, which is its own pocket universe anyway, with its own character power levels, its own events, etc. Whereas the TFU DS ending keeps in step with itself, being TFU, which is part of continuity. The same applies to KotOR, KotOR II or TOR. Or the JK series or any other canon game that is part of Legends continuity and not its own pocket universe with its own power levels.

Why? What reason would he have to assume Cade's actions or the success of his manipulations after the fact?

Or maybe it's the fact that he had no reason to question Vader's actions given that Vader's response was consistent with actions over the last twenty years and the fact that he couldn't understand the motivation of paternal love given his deep corruption by the Darkside.

"And that's my point. The DS ending of TFU was not made to be independent or contradictory to the game itself. So the Galen in the DS ending is the same Galen as the one in the LS ending, and the same goes for Palpatine."

THAT'S THE ENTIRE POINT OF A NON CANON ENDING!!! TO BE INCONSISTENT WITH ACTUAL EVENTS. Like, holy shit. It's in the name for god's sake.

Except the difference is the non canon ending is NOT part of continuity. And therefore DIDN'T occur and was NOT MEANT to occur. There's absolutely ZERO reason it would need to retain accuracy.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
u seem to be missing the point of his argument

His point is that a non canon event needs to retain a level of accuracy for some reason.

1. Because he clearly does so in the comic?

2. And despite Vader's continual commitment to the dark side, the Emperor still reads his mind. No excuse.

3. I already told you I understand what "canon" means. It doesn't happen - it's not official. But it's part of the same game. It's part of the same source material. So the only grounds on which you can dismiss it is that the author can decide to make things inconsistent on a whim, in which case all material from the games is equally affected.

You're not even understanding my point (and yet you're pretending to). It physically hurts me to have this conversation.

EDIT: But I'll try and simplify it one last time. All material in the games has to be treated equally. Either they're all made by the creator in an identical mindset, or they're all subject to inconsistency on the creator's whim. In either case, all material from one source holds equal veracity. You just choose whether game itself is consistent or not. And if it's not, then all material in the game can't be taken at face value.

That's it for me. Whether you agree to it or not, I'm declaring an agree-to-disagree result based on irreconcilable differences in perspective. From now on, we can just debate based on how we see it, instead of trying to bring down the other person.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
His point is that a non canon event needs to retain a level of accuracy for some reason.
it does

Originally posted by SunRazer
1. The things we debate in these forums have never happened and probably will never happen in continuity, either. That doesn't invalidate them. We discuss what can happen, not what did.

I don't think there's any sort of "authority" with non-canon material. Just equivalent veracity to material in the same source. We're not discussing authority, we're discussing reliability.

2. According to you. I see it differently. Hence, my offer to agree to disagree on the grounds of irreconcilable differences stands.

3. Game creators do care about consistency within their own game, at the very least. They may not care about the rest of continuity, but they'll try to care about consistency within their own game. It's laughable to assume that they're willing to change power levels and everything on a whim. You're basically saying that we can't take anything in video games at all because they're all subject to change on the whim of the creator.

4. Yes, I do. All information that exists within a single creator's work (ie. not including author quotes, which are separate from the original source material) has equal value and is assumed to be consistent until disputed. And this dispute clearly can't be resolved, so again, agree to disagree. It's just that our fundamental view of these things is too different to ever reconcile.

1. "The things we debate in these forums have never happened and probably will never happen in continuity, either. That doesn't invalidate them."

For the purposes of using it as evidence in debates? Hell yes it does.

"We discuss what can happen, not what did."

And why does that have any relevancy on the matter of using non canon events as evidence?

2. "I don't think there's any sort of "authority" with non-canon material. Just equivalent veracity to material in the same source. We're not discussing authority, we're discussing reliability."

And that's fine but as I said there's no reason that non canon material needs to be accurate meaning it's useless as evidence to support a stance.

3. "Game creators do care about consistency within their own game, at the very least. They may not care about the rest of continuity, but they'll try to care about consistency within their own game. It's laughable to assume that they're willing to change power levels and everything on a whim. You're basically saying that we can't take anything in video games at all because they're all subject to change on the whim of the creator."

For the most part events that occur in video games do occur on whims but at least with cut scenes or unchangeable actions there's some level of consistency and thought out action. With gameplay mechanics and non canon events there's no motivation other then to create something entertaining. Not even a motivation to remain consistent.

4. "Yes, I do. All information that exists within a single creator's work (ie. not including author quotes, which are separate from the original source material) has equal value and is assumed to be consistent until disputed. And this dispute clearly can't be resolved, so again, agree to disagree. It's just that our fundamental view of these things is too different to ever reconcile."

It's not even the same game creator who made each of the versions of TFU. There was somebody different for the Wii, there was somebody different for the Xbox and there was somebody different for the god damn handhelds.

Somebody tell Syn that I was using a cutscene and not a game mechanic, and that all of TFU has the same director/story writer.

Although it sounds, Syn, like you should be accepting that Palpatine can blitz the PS2, PSP and Wii versions of Galen, based on your interpretations at least?

Originally posted by SunRazer
1. Because he clearly does so in the comic?

2. And despite Vader's continual commitment to the dark side, the Emperor still reads his mind. No excuse.

3. I already told you I understand what "canon" means. It doesn't happen - it's not official. But it's part of the same game. It's part of the same source material. So the only grounds on which you can dismiss it is that the author can decide to make things inconsistent on a whim, in which case all material from the games is equally affected.

You're not even understanding my point (and yet you're pretending to). It physically hurts me to have this conversation.

EDIT: But I'll try and simplify it one last time. All material in the games has to be treated equally. Either they're all made by the creator in an identical mindset, or they're all subject to inconsistency on the creator's whim. In either case, all material from one source holds equal veracity. You just choose whether game itself is consistent or not. And if it's not, then all material in the game can't be taken at face value.

1. And? He was wrong. The difference being Sidious manipulated Anakin since early childhood for around 2 decades while Krayt attempted to influence Cade by showing him a false future when they had been about to fight anyways. They're not comparable.

2. Wtf. Vader just had his arm chopped off and Sidious was having the time of his life torturing Luke. He was at the height of his powers and had no reason to suspect a challenge to it let alone by Vader who he thought to be a beaten and broken dog. Call it overconfidence or whatever you like but the fact is RotS Sidious was far more aware of Anakin's mental state and ambitiousness then RotJ Sidious's was of Vader's.

3. In regards to game play this is true anyways. Regardless what I'm saying in regards to continuity ( which I believe a game creator would generally try to keep consistent ) is that a non canon event doesn't need to retain consistency unlike events that were confirmed to happen within the canon path.

Then stop having it because honestly you're not getting anywhere by attempting to use non canon events to support your point.

NO!!! That's not it. The difference between a non canon event and ones that actually occured within canon is that THERE IS NO IMPETUS FOR A NON CANON EVENT TO BE CONSISTENT. Do you understand?

Originally posted by SunRazer
Somebody tell Syn that I was using a cutscene and not a game mechanic, and that all of TFU has the same director/story writer.

Although it sounds, Syn, like you should be accepting that Palpatine can blitz the PS2, PSP and Wii versions of Galen, at least?

I'm aware that you were using a non canon cutscene where the writer has no reason at all to retain consistency. Game mechanics share that special status of not needing to retain consistency with the rest of canon.

No, not now. Not ever. You ridiculous man.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
it does

Please enlighten me. Why. Why would they?

the alternate endings are still suppose to be a legitimate option for the player

they wouldn't abandon everything the game established kek

I can understand this mindset in regards to an RPG.

The non canon darkside endings for TFU are there to be entertaining though and in the case of the first TFU specifically to put Galen into a suit to be a Darth Vader copy that got to walk around Tatooine and Hoth and f*ck shit up so that people would pay an extra $10.00 for a DLC.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova


No, not now. Not ever. You ridiculous man.

Irreconcilable differences

Seriously, though, you think they built up the entire game just so that they would only follow through in one ending and throw it all away in another ending? Hilarious. I'm so tempted to call bias but we know that would never work, don't we?

Wait...to the Anakin "blitzing" Sidious thing.

Cade catching Krayt offguard, who doesn't even trusted him, is legit; but Sidious getting catched offguard by the man he manipulated for years, and formed since a decade, isn't.

Or do I misunderstand Syn?

Originally posted by SunRazer
Irreconcilable differences

Seriously, though, you think they built up the entire game just so that they would only follow through in one ending and throw it all away in another ending? Hilarious. I'm so tempted to call bias but we know that would never work, don't we?

Yeah, I really do because of the fact that they made an entire sequel based on the actual canonized events of the Lightside ending and made a cash grab DLC with the non canon Darkside ending. Do I believe they made an entire game to throw away one of the endings? What a f*cking joke of a question. The darkside ending was never even in consideration.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Wait...to the Anakin "blitzing" Sidious thing.

Cade catching Krayt offguard, who doesn't even trusted him, is legit; but Sidious getting catched offguard by the man he manipulated for years, and formed since a decade, isn't.

Or do I misunderstand Syn?

I never brought up Cade or Krayt. That was Nova. Personally no, I don't think Cade caught Krayt off guard but Nova does apparently.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Yeah, I really do because of the fact that they made an entire sequel based on the actual canonized events of the Lightside ending and made a cash grab DLC with the non canon Darkside ending. Do I believe they made an entire game to throw away one of the endings? What a f*cking joke of a question. The darkside ending was never even in consideration.

*shrug* Your call for how you see it.

You've tainted HoC for me. Luckily it was dipping in quality by S3 anyways.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I never brought up Cade or Krayt. That was Nova. Personally no, I don't think Cade caught Krayt off guard but Nova does apparently.
I know. You still answered him, lol.
Also, how? Krayt just flat-out-dominated Cade

I guess now I can use the Exile soloing the entire Jedi Council via a dark side choice.

What are you trying to gain here Urs, because from your last question

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Cade catching Krayt offguard, who doesn't even trusted him, is legit; but Sidious getting catched offguard by the man he manipulated for years, and formed since a decade, isn't.

It seems like you didn't think that Cade catching Krayt off guard was legitimate. Or at least that you didn't understand why I would think it's legitimate when the situation with Sidious and Anakin was not. Now that I told you that I don't think he legitimately did so you reversed positions.

Almost like you don't actually care about the position you're taking up but only that it's going against my own.

...

F*ck off.

Originally posted by AncientPower
I guess now I can use the Exile soloing the entire Jedi Council via a dark side choice.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Now that I told you that I don't think he legitimately did so you reversed positions.
No, lol.
I still think that Cade caught Krayt offguard, as Anakin did with Sidious, but that it was more likely for Sidious to lower his guard, lol.

Originally posted by AncientPower
I guess now I can use the Exile soloing the entire Jedi Council via a dark side choice.

Doesn't happen. If you choose "I've come here to kill you", they still give you the talk.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
No, lol.
I still think that Cade caught Krayt offguard, as Anakin did with Sidious, but that it was more likely for Sidious to lower his guard, lol.

Yes, lol.

If you'd bothered reading through the thread you would know my position on Sidious and Anakin. He could sense Anakin's emotions and manipulate them without effort in RotS. There's no reason he wouldn't have been able to do it at the end of the RotS video game.

As for Cade there's no reason for Krayt to have lowered his guard. As you yourself pointed out he didn't trust Cade and had no reason to.

Sidious was forseeing like everything at that point in ROTS, his precog was also ridiculous. The idea he was merely 'caught off-guard' is frankly laughable, he clearly got blitzed.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Doesn't happen. If you choose "I've come here to kill you", they still give you the talk.

Cut-content.

Kill Vash on the Droid Planet and that'll trigger the other three, or any other variation.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Yes, lol.

If you'd bothered reading through the thread you would know my position on Sidious and Anakin. He could sense Anakin's emotions and manipulate them without effort in RotS. There's no reason he wouldn't have been able to do it at the end of the RotS video game.

As for Cade there's no reason for Krayt to have lowered his guard. As you yourself pointed out he didn't trust Cade and had no reason to.
When?

1. The RotS Game, as Nova pointed out, seems to be an own universe.
2. He just lowered his guard. It's PIS. I read through the thread, but I stil don't really see what your point is.

There is one. It's called PIS. Or Sith-Arrogance. Or both.
No, I didn't I just said that Sidious should trust Anakin more than Krayt did Cade.
Krayt just inflicted illusions in Cade's mind iirc, and brought him back to life; so he probably thought that Cade will follow him.

When what.

1. So the characters personalities and preestablished relationships all suddenly changed as well?

2. PIS is only used as a label for actions that don't make any sense from a writing perspective. There's still a logical in universe reason for everything that we have to deduce.

Read above.

Why? He showed Cade false visions of his future and then then they engaged in an extended bout. There's no reason for Krayt to have been caught off guard.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Why? He showed Cade false visions of his future and then then they engaged in an extended bout. There's no reason for Krayt to have been caught off guard.
what

Originally posted by AncientPower
Cut-content.

Kill Vash on the Droid Planet and that'll trigger the other three, or any other variation.

That's just the standard "kill one, the rest go after you" thing.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Sidious was forseeing like everything at that point in ROTS, his precog was also ridiculous. The idea he was merely 'caught off-guard' is frankly laughable, he clearly got blitzed.

Sidious doesn't foresee anything in the game, lmao.

Originally posted by SunRazer
That's just the standard "kill one, the rest go after you" thing.

Which is still relevant in an argument, remember we're debating what they can do. Because power levels.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Sidious doesn't foresee anything in the game, lmao.

So now we're separating ROTS media, but not separating TFU media?

Originally posted by AncientPower
Which is still relevant in an argument, remember we're debating what they can do. Because power levels.



So now we're separating ROTS media, but not separating TFU media?

1. I know. I'm not contradicting that. DS Exile is more powerful than LS Exile anyway, since she kills more people (including Jedi Masters), which results in her being more powerful. That would explain why she isn't getting stomped in the Force by the Masters.

2. The RotS video game has it totally different to the rest of RotS media (power levels are different, Padme isn't even a factor, etc). Whereas the TFU game is in fact the central medium, with the rest built around it, and there's actual correlation there between the different media.

1.Except in the scenario I provided she makes a single dark side turn and kills one master, before soloing the other three. As you so eloquently pointed out, the differenvc between DS Wii/PS2/PSP Galen and Canon PC/Xbox 360/PS3 Galen is apparently neglible.

2.Correlations like different planets?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
what

My bad. Mixed up the scene where Cade killed him and Krayt landed a DT attack on Cade in the scene prior.

1. So what? She grows noticeably more powerful. The difference between the versions of Galen is negligible, not the Exile, since DS Exile specifically gets more powerful due to her core traits (she passively Drains her companions, kills at least a Jedi Master and takes their strength, and kills more people in general).

2. What do you mean? Anyways, there's a reason we don't dumb it all down to movie-level, although to be honest, we really should have more of a separate perspective on each of the RotS versions instead of mixing and matching. I think it would help in discussions, actually.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
The fact that the deactivation of Sidious's lightsaber wasn't instantaneous as lightsabers have been shown to be in numerous other depictions? Beni, I know you live off of getting a rise from me but could you at least keep your trolling relevant? Thanks. Lol didn't mean to trigger you darl, but no, they are about as consistently instantaneous as you are intelligent.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
It seems like you didn't think that Cade catching Krayt off guard was legitimate. Or at least that you didn't understand why I would think it's legitimate when the situation with Sidious and Anakin was not. Now that I told you that I don't think he legitimately did so you reversed positions.

Almost like you don't actually care about the position you're taking up but only that it's going against my own.

...

F*ck off. haermm

Anyway made a separate thread in which this can be discussed:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/newreply.php?s=&action=newreply&postid=16058771

So let's get back on topic pls. Reasons why Sids can't blitz Ulic when Windu couldn't react to him? And why would Kun employ sorcery against Luke when he never does in combat?

Wrong link

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=638032&from=thread&pagenumber=8#post16058918

lmao Dat link to AP's post.

Shield your eyes.

Nova is retarded. You should never debate with Syn involving Galen smh. He's incapable of accepting blatant facts, let alone DS ending speculation.

Forgive me father(?), for I have sinned.

I prefer Satan.

You really are.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Nova is retarded. You should never debate with Syn involving Galen smh. He's incapable of accepting blatant facts, let alone DS ending speculation.