Trump Gets briefed re: Hacking tomorrow, will he become more patriotic afterwards?

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Stop the hate
Will he?

Surtur
Depends on if they provide valid evidence..doesn't it?

Henry_Pym
Stop the Hate, I was just wondering when you stopped beating your wife?

Surtur
Originally posted by Henry_Pym
Stop the Hate, I was just wondering when you stopped beating your wife?

Probably never, so it's a good thing blowup dolls can't feel pain.

snowdragon
The only thing funnier then Trump and his briefing is that if Russia hacked our elections they did it under Obama's watch AFTER Romney had said Russia was our greatest geopolitical enemy and barrack mocked him.

Failure on the part of the current president if we were hacked.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by snowdragon
The only thing funnier then Trump and his briefing is that if Russia hacked our elections they did it under Obama's watch AFTER Romney had said Russia was our greatest geopolitical enemy and barrack mocked him.

Failure on the part of the current president if we were hacked.
thumb up

Stop the hate
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38528329

Russian agents Identified

Fox News' Chris Stirewalt says that after James Clapper's testimony, it is "clear the nation's spies are not going to let Trump & Co off the hook here. Their competency, integrity and patriotism have been called into question, and they are not going to let the matter be tabled."

Surtur
James Clapper? Stand up guy! Never misled the American people, right? Nope he did not, not on a single thing.

Surtur
Anyways, what perplexes me most of all is this notion from some that our intelligence agencies are sacrosanct. Some people have called it treasonous to even question the intelligence agencies.

How is that not insane? Nobody remembers debacles by intelligence agencies? One thing Trump loves to bring up is the whole WMD in Iraq. Then people love to scream back with "it's not the same people!" but the point is to give an example that shows these agencies can and have gotten it wrong in the past, very very wrong.

Intelligence agencies that in the past have helped out dictators and suppressed democracy in other countries are not deserving of our trust, nor are they deserving of the benefit of the doubt. That privilege has been lost and the way to win it back is not to whine that Trump doesn't trust agencies that aren't deserving of trust. The way to earn it back is via transparency. The way to earn it back is by presenting irrefutable evidence. Not maybes, not probably's, not "this unnamed official said so" but irrefutable evidence.

Beniboybling
You are right. We should just ignore what they say and publicly disparage their credibility "because Iraq!"

Henry_Pym
Or you know the fact the can't brief any Republican who doesn't go, "reeeeeeeeeehhh" every time they see Trump.

Beniboybling
Seriously though no, they are not sacrosanct, but they are not a third party that can be listened to or ignored at your whim either. They are not pollsters, they are vital to your country's national security, which I assume is something you care about. If you can't trust your own intelligence agencies, you have a serious problem, especially when you are at war with terrorist groups like ISIS, because then who can you trust? BreitBart News?

The correct course of action is to fix the problem, if there indeed is one, not throw a fit on Twitter, and undermine their credibility as you wait for them "win back the public trust", while potential threats to state security go ignored.

Indeed how would you feel if say tomorrow this same attitude was taken towards a potential terrorist plot against your country? Would the same blase faire attitude be permitted? The reason people find this unpatriotic is because you create a boy cried wolf scenario in which real threats to national security may go unresponded to, with potentially damaging results. So yeah, its completely out of order, and just another thing to the add to the ever growing list of why Trump isn't fit to be POTUS.

Henry_Pym
You don't see the major shift in your hypothetical?

No, I wouldn't give you the key to my house

Yes I would give you the key to my house if you needed to cut a rope to save my life.

Context matters, and as of right now we haven't even proved the Russian hack narrative, so I'm not going to jump to the narrative that it was done for nefarious purposes. Germany gave Hillary millions of dollars for her campaign, and no one would be arguing that Hillary is Merkal's puppet.

Stop the hate
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Seriously though no, they are not sacrosanct, but they are not a third party that can be listened to or ignored at your whim either. They are not pollsters, they are vital to your country's national security, which I assume is something you care about. If you can't trust your own intelligence agencies, you have a serious problem, especially when you are at war with terrorist groups like ISIS, because then who can you trust? BreitBart News?

The correct course of action is to fix the problem, if there indeed is one, not throw a fit on Twitter, and undermine their credibility as you wait for them "win back the public trust", while potential threats to state security go ignored.

Indeed how would you feel if say tomorrow this same attitude was taken towards a potential terrorist plot against your country? Would the same blase faire attitude be permitted? The reason people find this unpatriotic is because you create a boy cried wolf scenario in which real threats to national security may go unresponded to, with potentially damaging results. So yeah, its completely out of order, and just another thing to the add to the ever growing list of why Trump isn't fit to be POTUS.

thumb up

dadudemon
Originally posted by snowdragon
The only thing funnier then Trump and his briefing is that if Russia hacked our elections they did it under Obama's watch AFTER Romney had said Russia was our greatest geopolitical enemy and barrack mocked him.

Failure on the part of the current president if we were hacked.


hmm


Okay, that's a good point. And I do remember that exchange. I wanted Romney in 2012. Outlined why, too.

Stop the hate
While the Obama administration may well have been remiss in preventing the hack, to be equally fair, they took action over it. If the Trump administration only appeases countries who have made America a laughing stock, they will appear weak and not diplomatic. Worse still Trump may blow his cover and reveal himself as the Russian spy many think he is.

Silent Master
What actions have they taken to increase our cyber security?

Henry_Pym
"many" lol

snowdragon
Originally posted by Stop the hate
While the Obama administration may well have been remiss in preventing the hack, to be equally fair, they took action over it. If the Trump administration only appeases countries who have made America a laughing stock, they will appear weak and not diplomatic. Worse still Trump may blow his cover and reveal himself as the Russian spy many think he is.

Yeah, taking action when you get caught with your pants down isn't a moment to celebrate, thats like saying you wiped your ass after you shit your pants.

Here is the real story:

Trump doesn't believe our intelligence agencies apparently.

Apparently our agencies didn't brief our current president in time to do anything about this situation? Or the situation is now the front of news pages because of Trump?

All that noise should be pointed at the current president and intel agencies that ALLOWED this to happen. Not cry about the results.

Stop the hate
Originally posted by snowdragon
Yeah, taking action when you get caught with your pants down isn't a moment to celebrate, thats like saying you wiped your ass after you shit your pants.

Here is the real story:

Trump doesn't believe our intelligence agencies apparently.

Apparently our agencies didn't brief our current president in time to do anything about this situation? Or the situation is now the front of news pages because of Trump?

All that noise should be pointed at the current president and intel agencies that ALLOWED this to happen. Not cry about the results.

I don't disagree with some of that, the point I think you're missing is; the democracy of the land of the free has been manipulated by an outside agency to place its favoured candidate in power. Whether someone, Trumper or not, they can't see that as a good thing. Sanctions must be taken.

I am not a lover of Security forces either, however, if they become weakened a nation's national and international interests and internal security becomes compromised.

Surely Trump understands this if he has America's interests at heart.

snowdragon
Originally posted by Stop the hate
I don't disagree with some of that, the point I think you're missing is the democracy of the land of the free has been manipulated by an outside agency to place its favoured candidate in power. Whether someone Trumper or not, they can't see that as a good thing. Sanctions must be taken.

I am not a lover of Security forces either, however, if they become weakened a nation's national and international interests and internal security becomes compromised.

Surely Trump understands this if he has America's interests at heart.

Russia is a huge bully and they have done these same types of things in several other elections in outher countries.

You can't play nice with a bully, throw sanctions on them. Send them Trump in a box with a thank you note and make them listen to his tweets as true torture.

Stop the hate
Originally posted by snowdragon
Russia is a huge bully and they have done these same types of things in several other elections in outher countries.

You can't play nice with a bully, throw sanctions on them. Send them Trump in a box with a thank you note and make them listen to his tweets as true torture.

Haha, Satire I can get behind and yeah, they have been interfering all to much with other sovereign nations lately, one could almost believe they have a master plan...

Surtur
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Seriously though no, they are not sacrosanct, but they are not a third party that can be listened to or ignored at your whim either. They are not pollsters, they are vital to your country's national security, which I assume is something you care about. If you can't trust your own intelligence agencies, you have a serious problem, especially when you are at war with terrorist groups like ISIS, because then who can you trust? BreitBart News?

They aren't people who don't have to provide evidence though. Which Trump apparently wasn't going to be seeing until today. So complaining about not buying into what they say before that happens makes no sense.



They need to be called out if they want to behave as if they are some sort of sacred cow. You don't win back their trust by blindly trusting everything they say.



Yeah no, it's not out of order to publicly question these people. It's BS to suggest it can't be questioned in public. This isn't a terrorist plot against our country either. These are people upset someone who hasn't been given the evidence isn't merely going to just take the word of our intelligence agencies.

One of the reasons people voted for Trump is because they knew he wouldn't be afraid to publicly question stuff like this, as opposed to some back room meeting where it's only discussed behind closed doors.

The hypocrisy about them complaining about stuff being public is hilarious. didn't NBC and some other sites already get their hands of parts of a leaked report? That wasn't supposed to have been released yet? Not to mention these agencies had no qualms going public with assertions Russia did this..without providing any evidence.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by Henry_Pym
You don't see the major shift in your hypothetical?

No, I wouldn't give you the key to my house

Yes I would give you the key to my house if you needed to cut a rope to save my life.

Context matters, and as of right now we haven't even proved the Russian hack narrative, so I'm not going to jump to the narrative that it was done for nefarious purposes. Germany gave Hillary millions of dollars for her campaign, and no one would be arguing that Hillary is Merkal's puppet. Uh-huh, whether you think the Russian hacking thing is real is not the problem, it's holding your intelligence agencies in contempt in general, as Trump is doing.

I can understand why people might be unwilling to give the CIA the benefit of the doubt here given the lack of absolute evidence, but if Trump feels that as well he should be in conference with them, finding out the details. Instead he seems to find making an utter clown of himself on Twitter a bigger priority, and souring relations between himself and US Intelligence a better use of his time.

That's extremely worrying, and it's embarrassing how people continue to make excuses for this bafoon.

Originally posted by Surtur
They aren't people who don't have to provide evidence though. Which Trump apparently wasn't going to be seeing until today. So complaining about not buying into what they say before that happens makes no sense.Correcting. Exploding on Twitter before you've even seen all the evidence is dumb.

I don't recall them making such a demand. But by holding your own intelligence agencies in contempt you only hurt yourself. Try to understand that. You. Need. Them. thumb up

There is a gulf of a difference between being willing to question their findings and ignoring them, disparaging them, and souring relations in general, all with the rhetoric of a three year old. There is a reason why his behaviour is being described as unprecedented, because no sane President behaves in this manner, and its baffling how you aren't able to see that.

And if you think Trump's twitter storm is going to improve national security, and the competency of your country's intelligence agencies, then Christ help you.

Surtur
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Uh-huh, whether you think the Russian hacking thing is real is not the problem, it's holding your intelligence agencies in contempt in general, as Trump is doing.

I can understand why people might be unwilling to give the CIA the benefit of the doubt here given the lack of absolute evidence, but if Trump feels that as well he should be in conference with them, finding out the details. Instead he seems to find making an utter clown of himself on Twitter a bigger priority, and souring relations between himself and US Intelligence a better use of his time.

The attitude that they are some sacred cow is exactly why you do have the showing of contempt for them.



But nobody said we don't need them. What we aren't going to do, though, is blindly trust them. When they behave in a manner that suggests they expect it, it breeds contempt. Try to understand that.



You can't ignore findings you haven't seen. What they should have done is keep their mouths shut until the evidence was presented, but they couldn't do it.



But nobody said it would improve national security. This is why nobody takes people like you seriously anymore lol. What a joke you are. Whenever hypocrisy is pointed out you scramble trying to pivot away.

Robtard
You literally praised Trump's tweeting in having a positive impact a few days ago, Surtur. FFS, at least be consistent in a given week.

Surtur
Originally posted by Robtard
You literally praised Trump's tweeting in having a positive impact on policy a few days ago, Surtur. FFS, at least be consistent in a given week.

That doesn't mean I said it would improve national security though. But that was a nice try.

Robtard
Keep stretching, you'll reach that icky spot eventually.

Surtur
Originally posted by Robtard
Keep stretching, you'll reach that icky stop eventually.

Lol, you've officially lost your mind. Saying Trumps tweets can have a positive impact now translates into saying his tweets will improve national security. Good to know lol.

Firefly218
Declassified intelligence reports are forthcoming

Robtard
Originally posted by Firefly218
Declassified intelligence reports are forthcoming

Prepare yourself for denials, deflections and derailments.

Surtur
Originally posted by Robtard
Prepare yourself for denials, deflections and derailments.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the very worst thing these are likely to reveal is..that Russia hacked into the DNC.

Robtard
Yes, you are wrong.

Surtur
Originally posted by Robtard
Yes, you are wrong.

Enlighten me as to the worst thing you feel these are likely to show.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by Robtard
You literally praised Trump's tweeting in having a positive impact a few days ago, Surtur. FFS, at least be consistent in a given week. Who knows how Surtur thinks this will benefit anyone, he only seems interested in vindicating his own opinion at this point.

Firefly218
Originally posted by Surtur
Enlighten me as to the worst thing you feel these are likely to show. Russia influenced our election in favor of Trump. And worst possible scenario, that I think is unlikely but still possible, Trump was in on it.

Surtur
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Who knows how Surtur thinks this will benefit anyone, he only seems interested in vindicating his own opinion at this point.

I had pointed out stories that talked about the impact of his tweets when it came to the Ford-Mexico thing and when it came to the ethics committee thing getting stopped.

I said the articles showed his tweets have the potential to have a positive impact. The hilarity of some trying to use that to justify implying I feel his tweets will improve national security is off the scale.

Stop the hate
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Who knows how Surtur thinks this will benefit anyone, he only seems interested in vindicating his own opinion at this point.

It's why I have him on ignore; he is like a broken record. Same stuff in every thread.

Russia has been consistently destabilising the west for some time now, be it interfering in Elections or helping bankroll far right parties. It's interesting how quickly Communism can become Fascism with the right strong leader and private ownership of the means of production.

Surtur
Originally posted by Firefly218
Russia influenced our election in favor of Trump. And worst possible scenario, that I think is unlikely but still possible, Trump was in on it.

To the first scenario you mention, I can't speak for every Trump voter, but I wouldn't feel the need to deny such a thing if true. Doesn't mean I'd be thrilled about it, but I'd just say the best response is to beef up security against hacking.

I wouldn't panic like some people want us to panic.

Surtur
Originally posted by Stop the hate
It's why I have him on ignore;

Aww shucks, I earned the largest description in your signature marquee. You're so totally not triggered by me smile



I'm sure you won't see this, but lol@ the irony of this.



Lol@ this response as well. It's a good thing you have me on ignore, I wouldn't want to destabilize your delicate world view with facts.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by Surtur
The attitude that they are some sacred cow is exactly why you do have the showing of contempt for them.

But nobody said we don't need them. What we aren't going to do, though, is blindly trust them. When they behave in a manner that suggests they expect it, it breeds contempt. Try to understand that.If Trump wants US Intelligence to be more transparent, then he should be communicating with them, not fan the flames of division and spectacle.

How do you think this meeting between Trump and US Intelligence agency is going to go now, in light of his comments? Badly. I imagine.

And yet somehow Trump manages it, and I agree, he should have kept his mouth shut but can't seem to keep is fat little hands off of Twitter, he has absolutely no self control. But wait are we talking about the same person?

Oh yes, because you command such authority on this cesspit of a forum. Though considering the demographic I think I'm better off being taken less seriously on the GDF than more. On the other hand please try to keep your cool, leave the emotional outbursts to your President-elect. thumb up

But anyway you seem to think it will improve something, so what is it? POTUS/Intelligence relations or Twitter traffic?

Surtur
Seems like a trolling response. You say that I seem to think it will improve something, and ask what it is. Yet, I already mentioned what started this, articles talking about how his tweet had an impact on the Ford decision(it wasn't the sole reason though). Or how when he tweeted about the ethics committee thing it ended up getting scrapped, once again surely not 100% due to Trump.

However, if his tweets had any effect at all on those decisions it does show the potential for a positive impact, as well as giving you examples of what that could be(like more jobs for Americans, even if it's only a couple hundred).

I also never once said with certainty his twitter would have a positive impact. I merely said might have the potential to have a positive impact. Which still doesn't translate into thinking it will improve national security.

Beniboybling
OK? I'm not talking about the use of Twitter in general. I'm talking his publicised contempt towards US Intelligence, on and off of Twitter, the platform is largely irrelevant.

So still waiting for a reason why this is a proper and positive way to behave.

Henry_Pym
Because he was elected... Kinda the best test to see if people agree

Surtur
Originally posted by Beniboybling
OK? I'm not talking about the use of Twitter in general. I'm talking his publicised contempt towards US Intelligence, on and off of Twitter, the platform is largely irrelevant.

So still waiting for a reason why this is a proper and positive way to behave.

If you're under the impression I feel that his questioning them in public will have a positive impact, not necessarily. You said why is it proper, it's more that I'm saying it isn't improper. But nor am I saying it absolutely has to be done.

I suppose if it caused our intelligence agencies to become more transparent when it comes to evidence for their claims, that would be a good thing.

Surtur
You know what? F*ck our intelligence agencies. Yet another report released and guess what? No evidence lol. No actual evidence for the assessments they come to in the report.

So once again: we're supposed to buy what they are selling based purely on faith. It's not about their assessments, I want to see the evidence that allowed them to reach those assessments, which once again hasn't been forthcoming.

What a joke. Then this bullshit where some intelligence agencies have "high" confidence in this, while the NSA only has "moderate" confidence, but once again the reports don't tell us how they arrived at the conclusions they came to. Just more "take our word for it". Nope, not going to fly anymore, period. Put up or shut up. Anyone who doesn't like that or thinks its treasonous? Too damn bad.

Surtur
Oh and apparently the DNC didn't let the FBI check their servers and it was some third party group.

Lol. What a joke this entire thing has been. No actual substance to anything people claim, just more "take our word for it" type bullshit.

Thanks, but no thanks.

Henry_Pym
I'm really starting to believe that conspiracy theory that the DNC hired hackers to put Russian malware on their own servers but then realized it wouldn't prove Russian hackers did it to cover up the horrid things coming out of the DNC leaks. Especially Seth Rich's murder.

Surtur
Originally posted by Henry_Pym
I'm really starting to believe that conspiracy theory that the DNC hired hackers to put Russian malware on their own servers but then realized it wouldn't prove Russian hackers did it to cover up the horrid things coming out of the DNC leaks. Especially Seth Rich's murder.

At this point I just don't take these people seriously anymore. No actual evidence has been shown lol. NONE.

So these people can open their mouths and flap their gums and say Russia totally did this to help Trump, but they can't give you the evidence because..national security.

That is the load of bullshit we're expected to swallow, but people want to whine Trump doesn't trust these people? Who felt they had the right to go announcing another country's guilt without even having gathered all the evidence yet? That's just not going to work. These intelligence agencies surely don't have to show us the evidence, but then they need to stop with the Russian narrative. It's put up or shut up time. Provide evidence or stop talking about it. They embarrass themselves whenever they behave as if they are owed the benefit of the doubt.

snowdragon
Originally posted by Surtur
At this point I just don't take these people seriously anymore. No actual evidence has been shown lol. NONE.

So these people can open their mouths and flap their gums and say Russia totally did this to help Trump, but they can't give you the evidence because..national security.

That is the load of bullshit we're expected to swallow, but people want to whine Trump doesn't trust these people? Who felt they had the right to go announcing another country's guilt without even having gathered all the evidence yet? That's just not going to work. These intelligence agencies surely don't have to show us the evidence, but then they need to stop with the Russian narrative. It's put up or shut up time. Provide evidence or stop talking about it. They embarrass themselves whenever they behave as if they are owed the benefit of the doubt.

You focus to much on Trump. If there was foul play then Trump shouldn't be in the discussion, it should be why/how did Obama's administration and our intelligence agencies allow this to happen?

Crying about Trump is simply a way for the administration to hide its inept policies when it comes to handling Russia and protecting our govt/citizens.

Surtur
Originally posted by snowdragon
You focus to much on Trump. If there was foul play then Trump shouldn't be in the discussion, it should be why/how did Obama's administration and our intelligence agencies allow this to happen?

Crying about Trump is simply a way for the administration to hide its inept policies when it comes to handling Russia and protecting our govt/citizens.

I focus on him because the media continues to focus on his stance with the Russian incident.

I agree that this is a way for them to try to just distract from other things. People have truly become delusional when it comes to Russia.

The sanctions they put on Russia failed to have their desired effect on the Russians and in fact Putins response to us getting rid of their people made them look truly foolish.

All the government has done is help feed the hysteria about Russia while at the same time offering us no real concrete evidence. Now we have some people in this country saying it's treasonous to even question our intelligence agencies.

Surtur
Lmao, Trump has now admitted Russia tried to influence the election.

Bwahaha, what are people going to do now? Complaining Trump wasn't even willing to acknowledge what Russia tried to do was a big part of these last few weeks.

Now that it has been taken away I expect them to complain that Trump isn't doing enough to talk about Russian involvement. Or they will complain he isn't willing to say what the Russians did actually had any effect on the election.

This will be a test to see if people just want something about Trump to b*tch about or not. If they're just cruising for something about Trump to complain about I know they'll find something else about this Russian situation to complain at Trump over. On the other hand if their concern for this was truly for the country, well, nothing else to complain about. Now the discussion can turn to increasing cyber security in this country.

Beniboybling
More interested in what you will do Surtur now that even your Glorious Leader has accepted the truth. laughing

Henry_Pym
The funny thing is that the way Russia interfered, is exactly what America did during Brexit... Kinda a joke now

Beniboybling
I'm curious to see the fallout though, how will Trump's change of heart effect his bromance with Putin? Is this a breakup?

Surtur
Originally posted by Beniboybling
More interested in what you will do Surtur now that even your Glorious Leader has accepted the truth. laughing

He has accepted Russia tried to interfere. He of course never said he won because of Russia, or that it had any dramatic effect on voters.

So what is there that needs to be done really? If anything, this is a good thing.

It doesn't change what the emails have shown.

Surtur
Originally posted by Henry_Pym
The funny thing is that the way Russia interfered, is exactly what America did during Brexit... Kinda a joke now

The funniest thing about this entire situation is that one of the wikileaks showed the DNC lamenting the fact they didn't interfere in the election of a foreign country. Saying they should have taken steps to insure who they wanted to win had won. Of course people tried to play it off by saying they were talking about influencing the election in legal ways.

But also just this country's general history when it comes to interfering with foreign countries in various ways. The phenomenon we are seeing now from some people, especially those on the left, is that apparently the human race only came into existence the night of November 8, 2016. Since it seems like they have somehow forgotten anything and everything that happened prior to that date.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I'm curious to see the fallout though, how will Trump's change of heart effect his bromance with Putin? Is this a breakup?

I doubt there will be any fallout. Trump has said Russia tried to interfere, but he didn't say they had any actual effect on the election, nor did he necessarily pin this on Putin specifically. On top of that, I think Putin would prefer to have a good relationship with Trump, or at least a decent one.

I feel it would be better to try to maintain a decent relationship with Russia while at the same time increasing our own security against cyber attacks. The alternative, which it seems Obama has chosen, is to retaliate. If we actually attack them in some way(even a cyber attack) it's just going to cause them to respond right back again. So there is a slippery slope to be had here, we can't exactly do nothing, but on the other hand I don't think anyone wants to get involved in some kind of cyber war with Russia.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by Surtur
He has accepted Russia tried to interfere. He of course never said he won because of Russia, or that it had any dramatic effect on voters.

So what is there that needs to be done really? If anything, this is a good thing.

It doesn't change what the emails have shown. Which do you think has left him more upset though, that Russia interfered with his democracy? Or that Putin didn't think he could win by himself?

But yeah, Putin is a good man, and we should let him carry on. Until it goes against my interests, then something must be done.

Surtur
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Which do you think has left him more upset though, that Russia interfered with his democracy? Or that Putin didn't think he could win by himself?

99% of the world didn't think Trump could win. I doubt he truly gives a shit.



This is a very liberal way of thinking.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by Surtur
99% of the world didn't think Trump could win. I doubt he truly gives a shit.Putin is his friend though, it feels like a betrayal.

Good to see you're finally abandoning those nasty right-wing values then.

Surtur
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Putin is his friend though, it feels like a betrayal.

Lol do you speak for Donald Trumps feelings now?



My values vary on who they match depending on the topic. For instance, when it comes to drug use I do not support the stance conservatives have. Nor do I have anything truly against Planned Parenthood.

But the whole "someone is my friend until they do something I disagree with" is a classic tactic from the left. Heck, we even have more recent examples. Look how quickly they turned on James Comey.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by Surtur
Lol do you speak for Donald Trumps feelings now?Don't we all?

Which you've decided to adopt for yourself on this occasion? The perks of a floating voter I guess.

Surtur
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Don't we all?

If all of us do then none of us do.



Not adopting anything, but okie dokie.

Btw lmao at the results of this poll. I just looked at them now.

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