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Watching the first Transformers and it occurred to me that the exact same style of almost slapstick humour mixed with great over the top action set pieces is what the MCUs bread and butter is. Does anyone else see the almost carbon copy of structure here? Which begs the question of why are the MCU films so celebrated and the Bay films so despised critically? Whats that one minor difference that separates these two franchises that couldn't be any differently received critically.

The first Bay Transformers film was actually great.

Unfortunately he never captured that magic again with the sequels. But the popularity of the first one seems to have kept the franchise going all this time.

If we're going for influences that made the MCU what it is, then Sam Raimi is infinitely more important due to the nature of the Spider-Man trilogy.

Or the first X-men trilogy.

As to Transformers though, it doesn't matter what people seem to think of the quality. The last two, which are arguably the worst two, are the two that broke a billion at the box office. And the next one will probably make over a billion as well, regardless of how good/bad it ends up being.

Also, the MCU is very character-driven. They actually have characters you invest in emotionally, and want to see succeed. The Transformers movies had Sam Witwicky (instead of wanting him to succeed, I wanted him to get crushed by rubble during one of the extremely long battle scenes) and whatever Mark Wahlberg's character's name is (the fact that I can't even remember his name shows how forgettable I found him).

don't worry Bay will join the DCEU soon

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
don't worry Bay will join the DCEU soon

He and Snyder can have "most destruction in one battle" competitions.

Though they'd still lose to Singer, with X-Men: Apocalypse. Magneto probably killed millions of people during the final act. But hey, he helped rebuild the X-mansion, so it's all good.

Practically makes Mags the real hero of that film

Good thing Havok blew it up, or we'd have no one to cheer for later.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
He and Snyder can have "most destruction in one battle" competitions.

Though they'd still lose to Singer, with X-Men: Apocalypse. Magneto probably killed millions of people during the final act. But hey, he helped rebuild the X-mansion, so it's all good.

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
don't worry Bay will join the DCEU soon



At least we'd get tons of action.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
At least we'd get tons of action.



cars will be blown up a lot lol

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
cars will be blown up a lot lol


Cool lol

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
cars will be blown up a lot lol

Don't forget the asteroids and Ebonics speaking robots.

Originally posted by relentless1
Watching the first Transformers and it occurred to me that the exact same style of almost slapstick humour mixed with great over the top action set pieces is what the MCUs bread and butter is. Does anyone else see the almost carbon copy of structure here? Which begs the question of why are the MCU films so celebrated and the Bay films so despised critically? Whats that one minor difference that separates these two franchises that couldn't be any differently received critically. Marvel u is great and the DC u is pitiful. Your opinion reminds me of a female upset when her menstrual cycle as gone awry.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Marvel u is great and the DC u is pitiful. Your opinion reminds me of a female upset when her menstrual cycle as gone awry.

Marvel hasn't always been great and DC hasn't always been pitiful. The balance seems to fluctuate every now and then.

Originally posted by Surtur
Marvel hasn't always been great and DC hasn't always been pitiful. The balance seems to fluctuate every now and then. Comparing the cinematic universes you're a moron if you think DC is in the same conversation in terms of quality, dummy.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Comparing the cinematic universes you're a moron if you think DC is in the same conversation in terms of quality, dummy.

I clearly said that the balance of which side is better tends to fluctuate. I'm not sure how to make that any clearer. That doesn't mean I am saying at the current time Marvel isn't doing better films.

Originally posted by Surtur
I clearly said that the balance of which side is better tends to fluctuate. I'm not sure how to make that any clearer. That doesn't mean I am saying at the current time Marvel isn't doing better films. All of the DC cinematic combined films are bad. Marvel has great films from its combined films. It isn't even close, dummy.

Originally posted by quanchi112
All of the DC cinematic combined films are bad. Marvel has great films from its combined films. It isn't even close, dummy.

I wasn't relegating it to just combined films. I was thinking of films like "The Dark Knight".

Originally posted by quanchi112
Marvel u is great and the DC u is pitiful. Your opinion reminds me of a female upset when her menstrual cycle as gone awry.

where did I mention DC bud? read my post a little more carefully ya mouth breather

Originally posted by relentless1
where did I mention DC bud? read my post a little more carefully ya mouth breather

Don't take it personally. When Quan was young his parents would roll up issues of various DC comics, similar to how some might roll up a newspaper, and they'd beat him relentlessly with those comics.

You must not blame him for his feelings on this.

Originally posted by relentless1
where did I mention DC bud? read my post a little more carefully ya mouth breather You falsely compared the marvel u to the transformers u. I called you out and you took it.

Originally posted by Surtur
I wasn't relegating it to just combined films. I was thinking of films like "The Dark Knight". So you brought up a standalone franchise when it isn't relevant to a combined franchise. I accept your apology you weakling.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Don't forget the asteroids and Ebonics speaking robots.

the hack won't allow that lol... only cars being being blown up lol

Originally posted by Surtur
Don't take it personally. When Quan was young his parents would roll up issues of various DC comics, similar to how some might roll up a newspaper, and they'd beat him relentlessly with those comics.

You must not blame him for his feelings on this.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You falsely compared the marvel u to the transformers u. I called you out and you took it.

hows it a false comparison? both series have cheesy one liners peppered throughout coupled with great action sequences, tell me I'm wrong Quan.

Originally posted by relentless1
hows it a false comparison? both series have cheesy one liners peppered throughout coupled with great action sequences, tell me I'm wrong Quan. That isn't all that the marvel u is and on top of that the tea softest don't have any great action thus far.

OK, watch Optimus Prime wreck shit in any of the 4 films and tell me that aint one badass robot

Originally posted by relentless1
OK, watch Optimus Prime wreck shit in any of the 4 films and tell me that aint one badass robot He is a badass but the action sequences aren't great.

The problem with a lot of the action sequences in Transformers films is they are almost too long. Some of them are nearly an hour, which becomes monotonous after a while. And, a lot of the time, it just looks like watching flailing robot limbs through dust and rubble. The only Autobot who generally gets any memorable scenes is Optimus (and, occasionally, Bumblebee).

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
The problem with a lot of the action sequences in Transformers films is they are almost too long. Some of them are nearly an hour, which becomes monotonous after a while. And, a lot of the time, it just looks like watching flailing robot limbs through dust and rubble. The only Autobot who generally gets any memorable scenes is Optimus (and, occasionally, Bumblebee).

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
The problem with a lot of the action sequences in Transformers films is they are almost too long. Some of them are nearly an hour


Yes. Too much/many bad ass moments make them lose their bad assness.


Good story telling is also needed to make the action enjoyable when it comes.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yes. Too much/many bad ass moments make them lose their bad assness.


Good story telling is also needed to make the action enjoyable when it comes. You do not care about good storytelling. Quit lying, action boy.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you brought up a standalone franchise when it isn't relevant to a combined franchise. I accept your apology you weakling.

But I wasn't talking about the combined franchise, but in general.

Do you..know what words mean?

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Good story telling is also needed to make the action enjoyable when it comes.

This basically does sum it up. When I watch the Transformers movies, I feel like they build the story around the action sequences, and then fill in the gaps afterwards. Whereas it's more the opposite way around with the MCU films. They figure out what the story is, where they want these characters to go, how they want them to get there, and then build the action around that whole idea.

In fact, I would encourage people who haven't listened to the CA:CW Director's Commentary to do so if they can. The Russos have a very interesting bit where they talk about the 3-way foot chase, between Cap, WS and BP. And it is made clear that a lot of thought went into how they wanted to portray the thought processes of these characters, and then wrote the action sequences to showcase how these characters would act in those situations. From tiny details to larger elements. Like they mention how the bits of newspaper were specifically stuck over the windows, so no one can see in. Or how WS kept the go-bag in the floorboards, knowing he would have to use it some time. And how he had already plotted his route, which is why he knew to toss the bag out of the specific window, and then make his way to a specific floor where he could make the jump to it. Or making his way to the tunnel, so that the helicopters can't pursue him etc.

Originally posted by Surtur
But I wasn't talking about the combined franchise, but in general.

Do you..know what words mean? So another off topic point which had nothing to do with the conversation at hand. Do you realize you do this in practically every debate on kmc hence why you're mocked. Quit posting.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So another off topic point which had nothing to do with the conversation at hand. Do you realize you do this in practically every debate on kmc hence why you're mocked. Quit posting.

Lol your stupidity knows no bounds. Off topic? Let me guess: what I said is off topic, but you whining about the quality of DC's movies is on topic because logic.

We get it: someone dared insult the MCU and you came running in to defend it and insult DC. It's okay man, consistency and logic are for lesser men.

Originally posted by Surtur
Lol your stupidity knows no bounds. Off topic? Let me guess: what I said is off topic, but you whining about the quality of DC's movies is on topic because logic.

We get it: someone dared insult the MCU and you came running in to defend it and insult DC. It's okay man, consistency and logic are for lesser men. It is relevant because we are discussing cinematic combined universes. For ****s sake how moronic are you.

The combined marvel cinematic powerhouse sits atop the throne. DC is jelly.

Originally posted by relentless1
Watching the first Transformers and it occurred to me that the exact same style of almost slapstick humour mixed with great over the top action set pieces is what the MCUs bread and butter is. Does anyone else see the almost carbon copy of structure here? Which begs the question of why are the MCU films so celebrated and the Bay films so despised critically? Whats that one minor difference that separates these two franchises that couldn't be any differently received critically.

Go home, you're drunk af.

Relentless is an idiot for comparing the shitty transformers u to the spectacular marvel u.

I barely was able to sit through the first transformer movie... and it was supposed to be the best?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I barely was able to sit through the first transformer movie... and it was supposed to be the best? I agree. It was the best of the series thus far but not a good film at all. The human characters were always so ****ing awful and the action too fast for its own good.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It is relevant because we are discussing cinematic combined universes. For ****s sake how moronic are you.

The combined marvel cinematic powerhouse sits atop the throne. DC is jelly.

But it was off topic. The discussion was comparing some Michael Bay movies to the MCU. You felt the need to bring DC into this. Nobody had mentioned DC.

So make no mistake, the OP asked a specific question, you then took it upon yourself to bring DC into the mix.

Originally posted by Surtur
But it was off topic. The discussion was comparing some Michael Bay movies to the MCU. You felt the need to bring DC into this. Nobody had mentioned DC.

So make no mistake, the OP asked a specific question, you then took it upon yourself to bring DC into the mix. I brought them in since they also have a shared cinematic universe. It isn't my fault you're too stupid to see the relevance. Surtur this is how you are in politics as in all areas of life, clueless.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I brought them in since they also have a shared cinematic universe. It isn't my fault you're too stupid to see the relevance. Surtur this is how you are in politics as in all areas of life, clueless.

Lol but they had zero to do with what was being discussed. It was off topic, the topic was not about shared universes in general. Then you whined at someone else being off topic.

Also seriously, all you do in politics threads is cheerlead people or toss out more of the same insults you always use. That's our quanchi: constantly acting superior while being hilariously inferior in every way that matters.

Originally posted by Surtur
Lol but they had zero to do with what was being discussed. It was off topic, the topic was not about shared universes in general. Then you whined at someone else being off topic.

Also seriously, all you do in politics threads is cheerlead people or toss out more of the same insults you always use. That's our quanchi: constantly acting superior while being hilariously inferior in every way that matters. The op was about saying thank Michael bay for the marvel u. Both are cinematic universes so I said marvel is well atop. DC wishes they could get the success or the critical acclaim of the marvel films. You already admitted you're a dumbass.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The op was about saying thank Michael bay for the marvel u. Both are cinematic universes so I said marvel is well atop. DC wishes they could get the success or the critical acclaim of the marvel films.

The topic wasn't about what DC wishes. It was about Michael Bays influence on the MCU.

Can you explain to everyone why you felt the need to bring up DC? The post you quoted didn't mention DC at all.



Except no I actually didn't.

Originally posted by Surtur
The topic wasn't about what DC wishes. It was about Michael Bays influence on the MCU.

Can you explain to everyone why you felt the need to bring up DC? The post you quoted didn't mention DC at all.



Except no I actually didn't. And it's all related to the combined cinematic universes. Your comment had nothing to do with any of this since it's about the Nolan batman films. Unlike you I can make points about each one and relate them.

Yes you did, dummy.

Originally posted by quanchi112
And it's all related to the combined cinematic universes. Your comment had nothing to do with any of this since it's about the Nolan batman films. Unlike you I can make points about each one and relate them.

Lol that is what I thought. DC has zero to do with how much influence Michael Bay had on the MCU.



Show us all where I refer to myself as a dumbass.

Originally posted by Surtur
Lol that is what I thought. DC has zero to do with how much influence Michael Bay had on the MCU.



Show us all where I refer to myself as a dumbass. But it does have to do with the cinematic universes out there. You referenced the Nolan films which don't.


A link might confuse you.

Originally posted by quanchi112
But it does have to do with the cinematic universes out there.

The topic isn't about shared cinematic universes in general. Do you understand, yes or no?



Lol, that's what I thought. Same ol' Quanchi.

Originally posted by Surtur
The topic isn't about shared cinematic universes in general. Do you understand, yes or no?



Lol, that's what I thought. Same ol' Quanchi. My point was about the quality of combined cinematic universes while you referenced a Nolan film. That isn't relevant to my point you piss drinker.


You're an idiot who supports men who like a golden shower.

MCU is vastly superior to transformers because the marvel people actually care about their properties. Transformers movies are only being made for money reasons, not because of someone's artistic passion. That's the reason transformers movies are shitty.

The DCEU movies are shitty because Snyder is an idiot and Ayer dropped the ball

More like thank Jon Favreau and Robert Downy Jr.

Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
More like thank Jon Favreau and Robert Downy Jr. They were great but I think Kevin Feige is the guy to thank. Without him the operation falls on its face.

Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
More like thank Jon Favreau and Robert Downy Jr.



Well there certainly set the tone and benchmark for the Universe.

But Whedon, the Russos and James Gunn all took the MCU to new levels. Feige obviously guided all of it.

the humour is quite similar between both franchises this cannot be denied; the action may be soulless or whatever in comparison to MCU but the structure and approach is quite similar; levity with a couple moments of drama sprinkled into the narrative

You can apply that statement to various films. Doesn't mean Michael Bay gets the credit. Plus, in some of the MCU films, it's more the opposite. CA:TWS, for example. It has some humorous moments, but, overall, it's a lot more serious than comedic. Also, some of the Transformers "humour" is seriously cringe-y. Like their habit of making racially stereotyped Transformers.

Originally posted by relentless1
Watching the first Transformers and it occurred to me that the exact same style of almost slapstick humour mixed with great over the top action set pieces is what the MCUs bread and butter is. Does anyone else see the almost carbon copy of structure here? Which begs the question of why are the MCU films so celebrated and the Bay films so despised critically? Whats that one minor difference that separates these two franchises that couldn't be any differently received critically.

Originally posted by relentless1
the humour is quite similar between both franchises this cannot be denied; the action may be soulless or whatever in comparison to MCU but the structure and approach is quite similar; levity with a couple moments of drama sprinkled into the narrative

Transformers is not the first big blockbuster with over the top action and humor. That type of movie has been around for decades.

Terminator 2, Lethal Weapon series, Indiana Jones Series, Star Wars, Die Hard series, Big Trouble in Little China, Robocop, Predator, Commando, True Lies, Independence Day, etc, etc all had this structure.

Transformers are just bad movies that solely focus on the destruction porn, bad humor and not so much the story, plot, acting, etc. Thats not the case for the MCU movies or any of the other movies I listed with big action and humor.

Its not hard to see what films are shittty despite if they follow similar styles to other movies. Movies with bad plots, bad acting, bad jokes, bad editing will always be shit regardless if they are similar to other movies that are actually good.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well there certainly set the tone and benchmark for the Universe.

But Whedon, the Russos and James Gunn all took the MCU to new levels. Feige obviously guided all of it.

Agreed, but those guys may have not ever been given the chance to push the franchise without the solid foundation that Iron Man 1 created. Look no further than the DCEU to see how important it is to have a good face and solid director to build off of.

Originally posted by quanchi112
People compare the combined universes but you bringing up the no,an films had no place in this discussion you urine drinker.

Lmao, how sad is your life?

Originally posted by Surtur
Lmao, how sad is your life? Concession accepted.

Far better than yours since I don't need drugs. You're pitiful.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Concession accepted.

Far better than yours since I don't need drugs. You're pitiful.

But your life is obviously one incredibly sad existence. You consistently convince yourself of your superiority to people who have blown stuff out of their nose more intelligent than you.

You routinely make a fool of yourself with your intensity about your obsessions: Khan, Marvel, NuTrek in general.

You run your mouth with consistent nonsense and scream "concession" whenever anyone gets tired of dealing with your craziness.

You are literally a running joke lol.

Originally posted by Surtur
But your life is obviously one incredibly sad existence. You consistently convince yourself of your superiority to people who have blown stuff out of their nose more intelligent than you.

You routinely make a fool of yourself with your intensity about your obsessions: Khan, Marvel, NuTrek in general.

You run your mouth with consistent nonsense and scream "concession" whenever anyone gets tired of dealing with your craziness. You conceded since you didn't respond to the debate. That's how it works, dummy.

No, you don't make any sense on any topic. You're a pitiful drug addict. That's sad.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You conceded since you didn't respond to the debate. That's how it works, dummy.

No, you don't make any sense on any topic. You're a pitiful drug addict. That's sad.

Nothing to concede as there is zero to debate. Did you feel this topic not being about shared universes in general was up for debate? Oh sweet little quan, it wasn't ever up for debate, not ever lol.

This doesn't mean people can't mention DC, someone else did and you of course pounced on their quote. You know what that person didn't do, though? Whine about off topic posts and then post something off topic.

You're a running joke here, are you aware of that?

Originally posted by Surtur
Nothing to concede as there is zero to debate. Did you feel this topic not being about shared universes in general was up for debate? Oh sweet little quan, it wasn't ever up for debate, not ever lol.

This doesn't mean people can't mention DC, someone else did and you of course pounced on their quote. You know what that person didn't do, though? Whine about off topic posts and then post something off topic.

You're a running joke here, are you aware of that? You Responded by citing Nolan films which wasn't relevant then you've been insisting hey that wasn't on topic to hide your error.

You can't even convey your own points and are routinely mocked by your own words. You're a loser who abuses drugs. How does that feel ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
You Responded by citing Nolan films which wasn't relevant then you've been insisting hey that wasn't on topic to hide your error.

You can't even convey your own points and are routinely mocked by your own words. You're a loser who abuses drugs. How does that feel ?

The only subjects technically on topic are Michael Bay and his effect on the MCU. DC being shitty isn't relevant. How does it feel that nothing you say, no insult you hurl, actually changes that? Everyone knows you will continue to insist otherwise because you can never admit when you do anything wrong.

You're so desperate to bring up characters and companies you love/hate in every topic. I can tell you legitimately feel empowered by it.

Originally posted by Surtur
The only subjects technically on topic are Michael Bay and his effect on the MCU. DC being shitty isn't relevant. How does it feel that nothing you say, no insult you hurl, actually changes that? Everyone knows you will continue to insist otherwise because you can never admit when you do anything wrong.

You're so desperate to bring up characters and companies you love/hate in every topic. I can tell you legitimately feel empowered by it. You already cited the Nolan films so you engaged then you acted like it was the same thing. You like DC I favor marvel it's fine, loser.