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The idea of Vader using telekinetic powers during his fight with Luke was created during story meetings. There was concern, however, that the audience might think back to the first film and wonder why Vader didn't use all his powers on Ben; but this was easily explained by the fact that Ben was probably stronger than Vader. George Lucas and Leigh Brackett also discussed the different levels of the Force; maybe Ben was a six, Vader was a four, Luke is now at level two.

-Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays

Some of these ideas were apparently thrown around during the developement of ESB. Are they valid or not?

Discuss.

It doesn't matter given it wasn't even hinted at and later sources say different things anyway.

Well, he obviously isn't stronger based on the fight and other official sources.

Granted, they were referring to specifically telekinesis, but still.

What other sources are you referring to?

That's pretty interesting actually

Wasn't it hinted Vader try to TK him in one of the comics, but failed?

The idea was undeniably scrapped, as Ben obviously isn't more powerful than Vader.


Still, interesting bit of information.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
The idea was undeniably scrapped, as Ben obviously isn't more powerful than Vader.

Still, interesting bit of information.

An equal to Vader still in ANH and he bested him in rots. Only time Vader won is when Kenobi allowed it to happen. Pitiful.

Originally posted by quanchi112
An equal to Vader still in ANH and he bested him in rots. Only time Vader won is when Kenobi allowed it to happen. Pitiful.

You always bash people for ignoring context. Well how about you follow your own advice?


You very well know the context of their RotS duel and why that outcome does not indicate that Kenobi is the superior combatant.

Originally posted by Petrus
You always bash people for ignoring context. Well how about you follow your own advice?


You very well know the context of their RotS duel and why that outcome does not indicate that Kenobi is the superior combatant. He took everything Anakin had to offer in an extended duel and lost. He pleaded with Anakin to stand down because he wasn't in a good position. Anakin being the man child he was leapt to his peril. Kenobi was always wiser, calmer, and well rounded at critical moments.

I hear excuses for Vader and his pitiful history of losing limbs, pride, and even his wife. The guy is one of the saddest and most failure ridden characters in cinematic history.

Not true as we all know.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He took everything Anakin had to offer in an extended duel and lost. He pleaded with Anakin to stand down because he wasn't in a good position. Anakin being the man child he was leapt to his peril. Kenobi was always wiser, calmer, and well rounded at critical moments.

I hear excuses for Vader and his pitiful history of losing limbs, pride, and even his wife. The guy is one of the saddest and most failure ridden characters in cinematic history.

What about Maul losing his legs, his Sith Master, his legacy within the RoT, his resources, basically everything? And how about Sheev making him his ***** again, after killing his brother? And then him desperately clinging to an artifact of power while trapped in a dark planet, alone and broken? If you consider Vader a failure, I'd say Maul qualifies as well, based on his track record.

Anyway. Anakin was pushing Obi-Wan back since their blades crossed for the first time in Mustafar. Kenobi was always on the run, always being backed up against walls. He was the one who actually jumped off the corridors and onto the giant machines because he couldn't hold Anakin's sheer strength. Anakin managed all of this while emotionally and mentally broken.

Aside from this, Obi-Wan and Anakin knew each other's forms perfectly well, a factor that severely influences the duel. Everyone knows Anakin was the superior duelist up to this point.

Quanchi is right

Are you afraid to oppose your master, coward?

Originally posted by Petrus
What about Maul losing his legs, his Sith Master, his legacy within the RoT, his resources, basically everything? And how about Sheev making him his ***** again, after killing his brother? And then him desperately clinging to an artifact of power while trapped in a dark planet, alone and broken? If you consider Vader a failure, I'd say Maul qualifies as well, based on his track record. Overconfidence and a set back after skillfully disarming and leaving Kenobi at his mercy. Sheev was superior to him losing after Maul gave a valiant not something to be mocked. You're just emotionally invested or upset over the current value of the peso and you're lashing out at Maul.

Opress being killed by someone superior to Maul means what against him ? Maul killed Qui but I guess that doesn't count as to his list of accomplishments. Maul someone survived a huge fall without his legs and rose to power. He escaped and tricked Pre into a duel in which he won to cement his position as the leader of those forces.

Emotions are running wild all the time in Star Wars. What you Vader fanboys have done is somehow created excuses or passes as to explain away his losses. Doesn't work that way. Kenobi was a wreck after watching Qui die or Satine killed by Maul. So Anakin isn't the only guy with emotions running wild in the midst of a duel against a highly trained/skilled adversary.

Kenobi was torn in half too emotionally since his brother just descended into the dark side and he witnesses him kill younglings. Couple this with his awareness of Padme's pregnancy and Anakin as the father and he was really in a bad place as well. He didn't want to do this while Anakin was convinced in a Sith mindset in what he was doing. Kenobi even pleads with him not to jump to force him into critically injuring Anakin. Losing to someone you're better than is a huge shot at that persons skill level competency.

The passes Vader gets and the double standards need to stop.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
The idea was undeniably scrapped, as Ben obviously isn't more powerful than Vader.


Still, interesting bit of information.

Where is it stated he isn't?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Overconfidence and a set back after skillfully disarming and leaving Kenobi at his mercy. Sheev was superior to him losing after Maul gave a valiant not something to be mocked.

So Maul was 'valiant' and is 'not to be mocked' because you say so, right? While Vader gets to be trashed, is pathetic and is a failure also because you say so. Okay, sure. I see how this works.




ROFLMAO. That was a very good cheap shot. Well done.



That logic is just absolutely terrible.




Vader survived 3rd degree burns throughout all of his body, losing all of his limbs and being basically destroyed by burning lava. He rose to power afterwards and became one of the galaxy's most feared individuals. Two can play this game.



Kenobi was not a wreck, he was feeding off his rage, just like Anakin did against the poor Sand People. Not a comparable situation. An emotionally stable and mentally balanced Anakin would've tooled Kenobi, and we all know it, not just us "Vader fanboys". You denying it doesn't change shit. Why don't you go check Gillard's tiers, hm?



Again, you're completely ignoring the context and also blatantly ignoring the fact that Anakin pushed him back basically the whole fight.




The passes you give Maul and the double standards need to stop.

Matt Serra beat GSP once you know.

Shit happens. But to anti-Vader trolls, Vader will lose to Kenobi 100% of the time.

There's levels for the Force too?

Yooo lets gooo

Originally posted by Petrus
So Maul was 'valiant' and is 'not to be mocked' because you say so, right? While Vader gets to be trashed, is pathetic and is a failure also because you say so. Okay, sure. I see how this works.
These are different circumstances. Maul didn't choose to fight Sidious who was better than him. He defended himself. Vader decided to fight Kenobi who defended himself. Kenobi wasn't as skilled yet he still prevailed. Note the differences you moron.


In debating we explain why it is. We don't make vague inflammatory statements and not give your reasons.


Vader was rescued by Palpatine and given a suit which prolonged his pitiful and miserable existence by decades. He was a high ranking official in the empire in a time the Jedi were decimated and were forced to go into hiding. He didn't amass any power on his own it was all given to him at his feet thanks to the guy who completely manipulated him into being his man slave for decades.


Yes, it is comparable because both were experiencing rage due to their emotions. Saying would have isn't the same thing as what actually happened. We see a composed Vader meet up later with Kenobi and he held no advantage prior to Kenobi to give up fighting. Just because Anakin can't handle fear very well and Kenobi can and has that doesn't make it an excuse for one and not another. This demonstrates how mentally weak Anakin was throughout his entire lifetime. We see it again and again. Attack of the clones against Dooku. Against Kenobi, etc.

He pushed him back but ultimately lost the fight. Who cares if he pushed him back but was ineffective at disarming or injuring Kenobi. You're a stupid person. I don't care if Kenobi masturbates while running away. He won the fight.

Maul has been given no passes and unlike Vader he has disarmed Kenobi as well as force push him away in defeat. He also unbalanced him with anger something that occurred to crybaby Anakin.

He cried while he burned. He's a *****. He will always be a *****. Like the peso.

It is confirmed. Quan hates Vader as much as he hates Superman and for that reason will never rank him accurately.

Originally posted by playa1258
It is confirmed. Quan hates Vader as much as he hates Superman and for that reason will never rank him accurately. I am one of the few who ranks him accurately. Vader is weak. These are all facts that detail a history of emotional fragility. He was a man child who was rescued by Palpatine and dominated due to the position in a galactic empire with all the power in the galaxy. In the end despite his age and Yoda's hesitancy to complete his training he defeated Vader handily. Vader greatly benefited in this era. He was maimed in the Pt era on more than one occasion. He's a loser.

Originally posted by quanchi112
These are different circumstances. Maul didn't choose to fight Sidious who was better than him. He defended himself. Vader decided to fight Kenobi who defended himself. Kenobi wasn't as skilled yet he still prevailed.

You just admitted Kenobi wasn't as skilled. /argument




#Triggered.

I really get on your nerves, don't I?




Because what you're saying has absolutely nothing to do with Vader, lol. You point out Vader's failures, I pointed out Maul's. Or are you denying Maul has had serious failures throughout his life?




And Maul was rescued by Savage, who took him to Talzin, who cured him of his uselessness and madness.



Yes. What's your point? He would've been made a high ranking official with Jedi around or not.



Oh, you're talking about the same guy that also made Maul his man slave for decades?

And of course he didn't amass anything, the Empire was his master's. Why would he need to? The fact that he needn't amass power of his own isn't proof that he couldn't, should it have been necessary.




The fact that Anakin was 'mentally weak' does not at all mean he was Kenobi's inferior in terms of combative abilities. Look, I don't give a shit that Anakin was more emotionally fragile than Kenobi, what I'm saying is that this affected their duel and the outcome a lot. Are you going to deny that, too?



Again you're failing to follow your own advice. Con-text. CONTEXT. Context. Got it?



You're giving Maul all the passes and completely ignoring all his failures.




Yeah, using it twice is kinda unoriginal. Come on, you can find a better way to insult me. Well, try.

Rank he accurately my ass. You just troll Vader fans because he is powerful and popular.

You do the same with Superman.

Luke is also a favorite target of yours. I fully expect you to lowball Luke no matter what he does.

Originally posted by Petrus
You just admitted Kenobi wasn't as skilled. /argument
He isn't but he still won which is actually worse for Vader. We see better teams lose all the time to inferior skilled teams. What matters is how they perform on that given day. Vader lost to someone he should beat but never was able to best skill wise. Yeah, that makes Vader look inept.


Nah, I just enjoy mocking someone with the limited intelligence you seem to consistently perpetuate on a daily basis around here.



The difference is Vader's are more egregious. Maul losing to a superior opponent he didn't seek out is to be expected. Vader losing against his master whom he is superior to skill wise is awful. Vader was never the master throughout his life unlike Maul. Maul laid out his own plans which garnered the attention of Vader's master. Vader never became his own man or created his own destiny. It was always at the behest of someone else's tutelage.



Yes, he was insane but he still managed to survive of his own accord despite his injuries unlike Vader. Maul later became the master whereas Vader never achieved this.

My point is obvious and that he did so with less competition and with the backing of a galactic empire. Much easier to do so in the position he was in.

Maul eventually became the master and opposed Sidious. In fact due to his own machinations Palpatine considered him a peer. Vader was just someone who served up his own replacement in true cuckold fashion, his son.


It's much easier to be born with a silver spoon in your mouth than go make your fortune on your own. You're a special kind of moron. Vader held all the advantages.

Tough. It's like saying the Warriors lost the finals because someone had a rough week. Man the **** up. Deal with your emotions. Kenobi dealt with tragedy and was better off than Anakin who was arrogant and emotional. You don't get to ignore his weak emotional makeup and only focus on his skill. Vader isn't just a skill set he is a character with emotional baggage. You don't get to dismiss it because you're a fanboy.
No, I accepted everything that happened. Maul doesn't get passes for overconfidence. What happened happened. He did skill wise show up Kenobi whereas Vader never did. Years later when he wasn't an emotional wreck he didn't best Kenobi through skill either.

You're from a poor country I can treat you just as the United States treats your people; like shit.

Originally posted by playa1258
Rank he accurately my ass. You just troll Vader fans because he is powerful and popular.

You do the same with Superman.

Luke is also a favorite target of yours. I fully expect you to lowball Luke no matter what he does. He is powerful and popular. I acknowledge this but you downplay his history, emotional history, and his lifetime of pain and misery.

Luke crushed his dad despite the lack of experience. Quit going off topic I do not care for your petty emotional outbursts. Just like a Vader fan to cry out foul when someone doesn't give their lord their worship. He's overrated and a loser. Facts support my case.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He isn't but he still won which is actually worse for Vader. We see better teams lose all the time to inferior skilled teams. What matters is how they perform on that given day. Vader lost to someone he should beat but never was able to best skill wise. Yeah, that makes Vader look inept.

I feel like I'm talking to a machine that cannot comprehend the reasons when explained to it. I won't say it again.



Yeah, I have limited intelligence, Quan. Your mocking hurts. Plz stawp.




You fail to see that I do not give a shit about this, and that I do not actually believe Maul is a failure. But your double standards are mind-blowing, in that you see Vader as an absolute failure when Maul clearly has failed in life several times. Hard. Open your eyes to objectivity.




Are you implying Maul would've been able to survive the exact same injuries Vader had after his fight with Kenobi without the help of someone else or without the suit? Nah, even you are not that retarded.



Yes. And? That's in no way proof that Vader wouldn't have been able to achieve stuff with more competition in the way.



Lmao @ at your belief that Palpatine considering him a 'peer' means something. Had Vader rebelled and acquired power on his own, he would've been his 'peer', too.

The only reason why Maul eventually opposed Sidious was because his time at the side of the Dark Lord was over because a Padawan sliced him in half and he was believed dead. Had this not happened, how do you even ****ing know Maul would've even had the balls to oppose him directly? You don't.



Your insults are cute



Can't believe you're actually implying that it's not easy to know if mental and emotional state have an impact on someone's abilities. It's obvious.

I feel like I'm talking to a goddamn wall here. Listen. I'm talking strictly about Anakin's combative abilities when compared to Kenobi's. I couldn't care less about the whole baggage and shit. Was Vader's performance affected by his emotional and mental state, yes or no? It's an easy answer.

If you answer yes, you're basically conceding because that was my point all along and you conveniently failed to see it.

Oh and yeah, I guess it's pretty easy for someone to just overcome all the tragedy, death and sadness going on in their lives and fight like nothing's happened. Kenobi's mentally tougher, sure. Kenobi's not the superior combatant. That was my point all along.




The duel never even ended, lol.





You know, when you attack someone with things like that, it goes a long way to show what type of guy you really are.

Originally posted by Petrus
I feel like I'm talking to a machine that cannot comprehend the reasons when explained to it. I won't say it again.



Yeah, I have limited intelligence, Quan. Your mocking hurts. Plz stawp.

Your insults do not attempt to refute anything I said. Vader losing against someone he is superior to is more egregious than Maul losing to someone he is inferior to. That's worse on Vader's end.



Vader's entire life was a failure. Maul's was not. They clearly aren't the same. You didn't want to address the specifics of why I believe Vader in the end failed worse. He wasn't even a bad guy and yet he was twisted to the dark side. Maul is a bad guy and revels in hatred and doing evil things. Maul stayed true to who he was Vader did not.


Unknown and speculation.


Quit avoiding common sense. Vader had an easier path of resistance and all the advantages the empire had to offer. It's like beating a game on super easy and bragging you're a badass.

Except Vader didn't show the ambition nor did he actually do so. I am arguing with facts you're rebutting with maybes. Facts>maybes.


We do not know but we only know what did happen. Maul did oppose him. Maul did achieve factional power and authority through his own machinations and ingenuity.

It does but mature or capable fighters don't let emotions sabotage their abilities. Kenobi managed while Vader could not. Man child. You can't ignore the emotional makeup with Vader and then excuse it. It's a part of who he is. Huge exploitable weakness.



Kenobi's performance was affected as well. But I pose another question. When Vader later met up with Kenobi in ANH did Vader defeat him with his superior skill ? Vader wasn't emotionally affected nor was Kenobi so what happened ?

False.

Kenobi is the superior combatant against Vader as he proved. Facts matter. Your feelings or opinion don't undermine their confrontations.


Another excuse.


It shows you're thin skinned and weak like Anakin. You really do emulate lord Vader.

Quan still making a fool outta himself

Quan is an evil Thanosi who must be crushed.

People salty because this messes with their power scaling :P

Originally posted by Azronger
wonder why Vader didn't use all his powers on Ben;

but this was easily explained by the fact that

Ben was probably stronger than Vader.

maybe Ben was a six, Vader was a four,

-Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays
I've never wanted Maul to kick Obi-Wan's ass as much as I do now.

It's all coming full circle.

Too bad Maul has already admitted his inferiority.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Quan still making a fool outta himself Says the guy who wants no part of a Khan Vader battlezone. You dipped out the day of, skank.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Too bad Maul has already admitted his inferiority. If only that were explicitly true, and an infallible source.

Well this thing Azronger doesn't even matter, so trying to weave this into anything is pointless.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Well this thing Azronger doesn't even matter, so trying to weave this into anything is pointless. I see nothing to suggest that Ben > Vader isn't an idea they carried forward since ESB. Vader's character evolved, they wanted to show off his TK, so they make the assumption that Ben is stronger than Vader to reconcile it all.

I see a repeat of Resurrection coming up in the future.

You know what I'm gonna do next right.

Someone get me the quote regarding Luke which puts Ben > DE Sidious

Maul > Ben > DE Sidious > Plagueis > Krayt > Caedus > Vader >/= Tenebrous > Dooku >/= Venamis > Bane > Valkorion > Revan > Nihilus

tho maybe Tenebrous could be higher

stahp

Originally posted by ILS
DOG>Maul > Ben > DE Sidious > Plagueis > Krayt > Caedus > Vader >/= Tenebrous > Dooku >/= Venamis > Bane > Valkorion > Revan > Nihilus
fixed for you

Originally posted by ILS
If only that were explicitly true, and an infallible source. Yeah, if only he was stonewalled by someone who got beat by Vader, on a nexus.

Oh.

Could somebody just post the quotes that contradict this notion?

Here's one that supports it

Back on the Rebel base on Coruscant, Luke Skywalker tested Kyp's Jedi power potential. What he discovered was the strongest presence he had known since his Masters Obi-Wan and Yoda.
--The Essential Guide to Characters

Originally posted by Azronger
Could somebody just post the quotes that contradict this notion? "Your powers are weak old man."

Originally posted by Beniboybling
"Your powers are weak old man."

That was in reference to lightsaber combat:

He still had some skill, his old Master did, but he was out of practice. Vader could feel it through the Force.

Obi-Wan twirled and blocked a slash, then wove a defensive pattern with his blade. The Force was still with the old Jedi; he was able to anticipate Vader's strikes and block or parry them. But after a quick exchange, Vader felt the energy shift in his favor. "Your powers are weak, old man."

-Death Star

So, it doesn't contradict the quote.

Or maybe it was through lightsaber combat that Vader concluded his powers were weak.

Or maybe he was taunting him.

Based on what he felt yeah.

Az's quote says otherwise

Az's quote is neither Legends nor Canon, and therefore has no value.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Or maybe it was through lightsaber combat that Vader concluded his powers were weak.

No, he felt he was out of practise. What he meant by "powers" was his dueling skill, as strange as the wording is.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Az's quote is neither Legends nor Canon, and therefore has no value.

I guess it does take a back seat in terms of canonicity, but unless something is found that contradicts it, I don't see why it should be dismissed.

Originally posted by Azronger
No, he felt he was out of practise. What he meant by "powers" was his dueling skill, as strange as the wording is. That's in a different paragraph so no, and in the ANH novelisation he says it before they even start fighting, Kenobi retorting by saying Vader only feels part of the Force so again no.

Originally posted by Azronger
I guess it does take a back seat in terms of canonicity, but unless something is found that contradicts it, I don't see why it should be dismissed. It's not a case of dismissing it, but taking it seriously in the first place.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
It's not a case of dismissing it, but taking it seriously in the first place.

Why wouldn't you? I don't see why Ben being 50 % stronger than Vader is an outrageous notion or anything.

Originally posted by Azronger
Why wouldn't you? I don't see why Ben being 50 % stronger than Vader is an outrageous notion or anything. Because it's unproven by Legends or Canon sources? Believability has little to do with it.

Originally posted by Azronger
Why wouldn't you? I don't see why Ben being 50 % stronger than Vader is an outrageous notion or anything.



Perhaps because Vader crushes At-At's (canon) or choked a guy who moves Star Destroyers (legends), whereas Kenobi gets ragdolled by pretty much every dark sider not named Anakin.

Yeah, 19 years beforehand.

Ben being more powerful than Vader doesn't make sense.

Him even being equal to Vader in the Force makes little sense. Especially after the way Disney and Filoni have bigged Vader up.


Like Ares said, it's simply an outdated comment, which has no relevance to modern day canon.

It does make clear Vader didn't use the Force vs Kenobi because it wouldn't be effective, one way or another, however.

Still. Ben Kenobi being more powerful than Darth Vader is ridiculous and illogical in what it represents.

Kenobi still met Vader as an equal in combat. Vader never bested him cleanly with a Kenobi resisting. He owned Vader.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It does make clear Vader didn't use the Force vs Kenobi because it wouldn't be effective, one way or another, however.

No it doesn't. This shit happens all the time.

Originally posted by ares834
No it doesn't. This shit happens all the time.






Yep. And a silly conclusion to come to when looking at a 40 year old film in which Lucas hadn't reallly worked out the ins and outs of Jedi/Sith powers or his power scaling amongst characters.

Vader feats do not undermine their matchup. Despite people's insistence Vader is more powerful than ever look at him on rebels fail against Tano. Watch him fail against Ezra and Kanan. Watch him fail in Rogue One.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Yeah, 19 years beforehand.



Okay.. So 19 years later perhaps he's a match for Maul or even Count Dooku in that respect.

Vader's another level though. Especially nowadays under Disney.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Okay.. So 19 years later perhaps he's a match for Maul or even Count Dooku in that respect.

Vader's another level though. Especially nowadays under Disney.

No, he isn't. The guy didn't even disarm Tano. He's the same as he always was. Slow, full of failure, and a burn victim who just needs a good bacta bath.

Let's also remember that in ANH the Death Star hallway didn't have a ton of objects to throw around.

Vader likely didn't want to test Kenobi's Force wall because he was probing his defensives.

I think he then realized he could he could lead the fight with bladework by the time he could've used Force abilities.

Kenobi also probably wasn't going to penetrate Vader's Force wall although this would technically make him weaker than Ezra even if he was distracted.

Or perhaps he wanted to best him in Sabers only first, to show he's now Obi-Wan's superior in every way.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Or perhaps he wanted to best him in Sabers only first, to show he's now Obi-Wan's superior in every way.

Also both of them were being extremely cautious. This says something considering the way he engaged Kanan lol

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Or perhaps he wanted to best him in Sabers only first, to show he's now Obi-Wan's superior in every way. He didn't best him in sabers. Quit making excuses for Vader.

Kenobi ragdolls.

I think this can be looked at again with Kenobi's quote taken into consideration.

"Kenobi gauged the shrinking distance between the oncoming troops and himself, then turned a pitying gaze on Vader. 'This is a fight you cannot win, Darth. Your power has matured since I taught you, but I too have grown much since our parting.'"

And this along with the Megalith feat, and the supersonic running feat, and the seeing through galaxy-wide darkside cloud, etc. I'm say there's a pretty convincing case for Obi-Wan being more powerful than Darth Vader.

And the fight seemed to imply this from the beginning. That quote just explains why Vader wasn't seen using all the powers he could have used. But the rest of the fight wouldn't have been under Kenobi's control had he not been more powerful.

So where would other users be put by this scaling?
Assuming that the distance between the levels is equal,
Luke during ANH is somehow already half of Vader's power at 2
Luke during RoTJ would have to be a 3, making him 3/4s of Vader's power
Vader is a 4
Caedus might be a 5
Kenobi would be above Caedus at 6
Darth Krayt, who managed to fend off a 4-5 Kenobi for a few seconds as A'Sharrad Hett, after having become more powerful would double Vader at 8

So this system doesn't seem to make too much sense within the accepted canon. I would still say that Kenobi during a New Hope is more powerful then Darth Vader, but not by such a large margin. I'm honestly willing to put ANH Kenobi at Windu level.

But it does get me thinking, how much more powerful than Kenobi would Krayt be?
Kenobi during most of RotS was one of the more powerful Jedi at the time. He defeated Grevious, was on the Council, and was one of most influencial and capable general of the Clone Wars.
During his fight with Anakin, he let go of all the burden which had held him back in life, and became much more powerful. Here he fought against Krayt, who managed to hold him off for a few seconds before he defeated him. He also ran upwards of supersonic speeds, and lifted the megalith. At this time I would put him just below than Master Windu.
His powers grew over the twenty years afterwards. At the time of his death, he was more powerful than Lord Vader, who was less powerful, but more controlled and skilled than the Anakin who a weaker Kenobi had matched. This is where I would say he surpassed even master Windu.
Darth Krayt managed to hold his own against Kenobi when he was just lower than Master Windu, and his power grew many times over since then. This would make him far more powerful than Kenobi, and rival the likes of Yoda. Seem accurate?

Obi-Wan is Jesus.

Seriously, though, I feel like Kenobi was a lot more powerful between Episodes 3 and 4 than people give him credit for.

Anakin lost to obi wan because obi wans style was the best at defense, obi wan could not beat anakin so instead defended himself and let anakin **** up.

Idk wtf Quran is talking about, Vader would hsve crushed the Jedi in rebels. Also keep in mind that he was still getting use to the suit and learning how to fight in it.

Yes, but when the fight started, Obi Wan was getting absolutely destroyed and then there was this whole sequence about "letting go", and he then managed to hold his own against the most powerful force user almost ever. He actually held back a force push from him, so it wasn't just ALL defense. Then, as his power grew over his time on Tatooine, we see that he could run faster than the speed of sound, lift tons of rock in a split second before attacking a Krayt Dragon, completely embarrass A'sharad Hett, and fight with Vader at an advanced age and holding his own until he chose not to anymore. I would defenitely put him above Mace Windu with THOSE kinds of feats. And this becomes even more impressive when you consider how powerful of a Jedi he was during the Clone Wars. Letting go and being on Tatooine made him that much MORE powerful.

I am laughing my ass off to people who try to justify why Anakin got his butt whooped on Mustafar.

So what's your side of the story?

That Obi-Wan was the master and Anakin was the apprentice.

I'll just read you back your signature:

"Nadd is the 90 IQ guy who acts like a 70 IQ guy to make fun of the nerds"

I already read in reverse.