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Prince Nuada vs the clockwork Nazi. Fight in a steel mill where Terminator 2 end battle was shot.

R1: first hit wins.

R2: to the death.

First hit: Nuada wins. Longer reach plus more explosive offense.

To the death: Unsure if Nuada can kill Kroenen in a pure fight.

Originally posted by FrothByte
First hit: Nuada wins. Longer reach plus more explosive offense.

To the death: Unsure if Nuada can kill Kroenen in a pure fight.

He has no chance of beating Kroenen IMO. Wasn't he fast enough to block bullets?

So I don't even think it's guaranteed Nuada would land the first hit. Nuada was quick and agile compared to Hellboy, but he doesn't show the reflex speed of Kroenen, which will matter when it comes to a "first hit" win.

But definitely in the fight to the death I'm not sure what Nuada is going to do, because stabbing him won't do anything.

Originally posted by Surtur
He has no chance of beating Kroenen IMO. Wasn't he fast enough to block bullets?

So I don't even think it's guaranteed Nuada would land the first hit. Nuada was quick and agile compared to Hellboy, but he doesn't show the reflex speed of Kroenen, which will matter when it comes to a "first hit" win.

But definitely in the fight to the death I'm not sure what Nuada is going to do, because stabbing him won't do anything.

Kroenen was blocking bullets but Nuada's spear will be carrying a lot more mass behind it than just bullets, which means Kroenen can't block it as easily as he blocked bullets. Plus although Kroenen has better defense feats, he doesn't have the same kind of offensive feats as Nuada. Hellboy had a pretty easy time beating up Kroenen, and that was Hellboy being unarmed.

Nuada has enough strength to push Hellboy around and far better skill. Kroenen is going to have a hard time blocking hits from Nuada without getting pushed off his feet.

It's not quite blocking bullets but, IIRC, during Nuada's training scene, early in Hellboy 2, he had enough speed, skill and precision to cut a water droplet in half.

Also, Kroenen didn't block all bullets sent his way. He blocked and redirected a few but mostly he just tanked the bullets.

Also, we're talking tonfa vs spear here.

Major reach advantage to Nuada. Mobility also goes to Nuada as well.

Mobility + reach is a devastating advantage.

Why does reach matter if your attacks are moving in slow mo? Whether the guy blocked one bullet or dozens, those are better speed feats than the Prince has.

Originally posted by Surtur
Why does reach matter if your attacks are moving in slow mo? Whether the guy blocked one bullet or dozens, those are better speed feats than the Prince has.

It matters because despite Kroenen's fast reflex feats, he has not demonstrated the ability to move at super speed.

Meaning he will still need to block Nuada's hits and considering that Nuada's hits were strong enough to push Hellboy around then we can assume Kroenen will get pushed around even if he does block them.

In the end, reach matters because Kroenen won't be able to get close to Nuada without getting hit, regardless of whether he blocks those hits or not.

You also forget that Hellboy had no problems laying his hands on Kroenen whereas he had a very hard time landing hits on Nuada.

Nuada wins both. Better fighter, more agile, faster, stronger and likely faster. Nuada's picking Kroenen apart.

Originally posted by FrothByte
It matters because despite Kroenen's fast reflex feats, he has not demonstrated the ability to move at super speed.

Hasn't he, though? To the extent needed? I don't think he'll be moving around like the Flash, but he can at least move his arms at super speed, and those blades he used I would think could deflect Nuada's weapon from hitting him.



I didn't mean to imply he will just never ever get touched. I guess for me "first hit" meant first solid hit, as opposed if you try to hit someone and they block it.



Well like I said, I was assuming first hit meant an actual solid hit, not something that is blocked. If we literally are going with the first contact someone makes, I dunno, Kroenen could just chuck some sand at the Prince lol. Or whatever that substance was inside him.



Nuada is immortal in that he doesn't age, but he could still be easily killed and thus had to make sure to avoid Hellboy at all costs. Kroenen didn't have the same concerns with Hellboy.

Originally posted by Surtur
Hasn't he, though? To the extent needed? I don't think he'll be moving around like the Flash, but he can at least move his arms at super speed, and those blades he used I would think could deflect Nuada's weapon from hitting him.



I didn't mean to imply he will just never ever get touched. I guess for me "first hit" meant first solid hit, as opposed if you try to hit someone and they block it.



Well like I said, I was assuming first hit meant an actual solid hit, not something that is blocked. If we literally are going with the first contact someone makes, I dunno, Kroenen could just chuck some sand at the Prince lol. Or whatever that substance was inside him.



Nuada is immortal in that he doesn't age, but he could still be easily killed and thus had to make sure to avoid Hellboy at all costs. Kroenen didn't have the same concerns with Hellboy.

Nuada was strong enough that a hit of his spear sent Hellboy flying off his feat. Kroenen will have a hard time fully blocking Nuada's hits. He's not going to be able to treat them like he did the bullets.

Also even if it's to first solid hit (which it is), Kroenen hasn't shown the offensive skill or speed needed to land a hit on Nuada. Like I said, Kroenen could barely hit Hellboy. Nothing he has done so far convinces me that he can hit Nuada before Nuada can hit him.

Originally posted by Surtur
Nuada is immortal in that he doesn't age, but he could still be easily killed and thus had to make sure to avoid Hellboy at all costs. Kroenen didn't have the same concerns with Hellboy.

This doesn't really help your case. If it's in character for Kroenen to try and tank hits instead of avoiding them, it just increases the chances of Nuada tagging him first.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
This doesn't really help your case. If it's in character for Kroenen to try and tank hits instead of avoiding them, it just increases the chances of Nuada tagging him first.

If he knows the first person hit loses..why would he let it happen though? That's very different from not bothering to avoid blows you don't have to because you know you can take them.

Originally posted by Surtur
If he knows the first person hit loses..why would he let it happen though? That's very different from not bothering to avoid blows you don't have to because you know you can take them.

Once you get used to fighting a certain way, it is hard to suddenly change it all up. Plus, Nuada's actual overall combat speed and agility still appears better. Kroenen fodderised some humans, while Nuada murdered a whole group of his father's personal guard, when he killed him, and only got tagged once. Also, Hellboy was blocking Kroenen's hits with a single arm (and also only got tagged once), and he actually beat the shit out of him, and knocked him on his ass. He wasn't simply tanking Hellboy's hits. Repeated blows had a notable effect on him. Kroenen only managed to get a brief upper hand because Hellboy stopped, and Kroenen used the floor spike trap. If he had kept going, he could have likely torn him apart completely (one side of Kroenen's head was completely warped from just a few RHoD punches). In contrast, Hellboy repeatedly showed difficulty in tagging Nuada, while getting tagged by him repeatedly. So, it's not simply about just avoiding hits. It's about dishing them out as well. And we have a direct comparison in how they both fought Hellboy.