Who is the most powerful person Darth Venamis can beat?

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Deronn_solo
Self explanatory.

Darth Maul? Vader? Dooku? Kun? Revan?

red8
Good topic, not sure.

Out of the ones you've listed, I think he could at least beat Maul.

ILS
I wonder how Plagueis would compare them. He thought Maul's speed was astonishing, and he thought him and Venamis' fight would have looked like lightning flashing through the forest. I don't think Maul/Dooku territory is a terrible place for Venamis.

The Merchant
IIRC Plaguies thought Venamis was good enough to be a notable Sith during the Ruusan era.

ILS
Hmm...

Yeah, he said he'd be good in Bane's time. But I think that's kinda generous to Bane given how well Venamis performed against Plagy.

Deronn_solo
Yeah, I'd say Ven is around the level of all the guys listed in the OP as far as dueling is concerned.

Force abilities, however, is another matter entirely.

NewGuy01
No, he's inferior. Plagueis was still a ways off from surpassing his master at that point, especially where lightsaber combat is concerned. Venamis is proficient and powerful in his own right, (as Plagueis said, he would have been notable during the Ruusan era) but he's not a big-league player like Bane. I find him more akin to Ventress than Maul or Dooku.

Deronn_solo
Fair, does he have any worthwhile Force feats?

SunRazer
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Plagueis was still a ways off from surpassing his master at that point, especially where lightsaber combat is concerned.

Is that ever directly stated in the novel?

darthbane77
Maul or Dooku

NewGuy01
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Fair, does he have any worthwhile Force feats?

He could levitate mid-combat and was apparently capable of force lightning, but also failed to sense his master's death.

Beniboybling
If it was Venamis that Plagueis sensed as the being whose power rivalled his own, then he should be above most of these people.

MythLord
Originally posted by Beniboybling
If it was Venamis that Plagueis sensed as the being whose power rivalled his own, then he should be above most of these people.

UCanShootMyNova
Venamis should be about Maul level imo.

SunRazer
Originally posted by Beniboybling
If it was Venamis that Plagueis sensed as the being whose power rivalled his own, then he should be above most of these people.

Who else could it be?

Beniboybling
No one. smile

SunRazer
thumb up

Azronger
Originally posted by Beniboybling
If it was Venamis that Plagueis sensed as the being whose power rivalled his own, then he should be above most of these people.

Ursumeles
Originally posted by Beniboybling
If it was Venamis that Plagueis sensed as the being whose power rivalled his own, then he should be above most of these people.

Beniboybling
To answer the question though, I reckon he could take Vader.

Deronn_solo
Originally posted by NewGuy01
He could levitate mid-combat and was apparently capable of force lightning, but also failed to sense his master's death.

Mediocre Force feats - just like his teacher, lmao. I'd say around Ventress level is correct.

Petrus
But Plagueis estimation on Ven was that their powers were about even. That'd be way above Ventress.

Beniboybling
A brain dead comment on Sas' part yeah, no surprise DC agrees. smile

Ursumeles
Venamis should be able to ragdoll Ventress, lol.
Also, didn't even Plagueis failed to ragdoll him...?

Beniboybling
He never tries, but it's also said that their contest would have gone on "indefinitely". Ventress wouldn't last 5 seconds lmao.

Deronn_solo
Oh, look, Beni is being retarded again, what a surprise. laughing out loud


Being only a notable Sith during Bane's weak era is hardly far above Ventress, as the only legit Siith above Ventress during that period that could be far above Asajj was Bane - so, nah.

No need to take Plagueis word at one end, yet ignore it at another.

Beniboybling
Friend, I'm going to have to stop you right there and ask you to re-read the text before the irony gets any deeper. smile
Clear yet? Plagueis wasn't talking about his Force power he was talking about his mindset, which Plagueis believed to be outmoded.

Deronn_solo
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

That's one way to interpret it, regardless, Tenebrous himself isn't above Ventress so it fits. <3

Beniboybling
no

Petrus
Venamis levitating mid-combat and proceed to continue fighting is impressive as hell. In fact, we've seen only very few ppl pull that off, IIRC. Also, he pushed Plagueis in their duel. I seriously doubt someone like Ventress can take him down.

TenebrousWay
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

That's one way to interpret it, regardless, Tenebrous himself isn't above Ventress so it fits. <3

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/1512702/tp-mazembe-goalkeeper-o.gif

Raptor22
Originally posted by Beniboybling
He never tries, but it's also said that their contest would have gone on "indefinitely". Ventress wouldn't last 5 seconds lmao. he said that, but then in the same paragraph defended against his attacks as if he were facing a trainee then proceeded to 2 shot him.

As soon as plagueis stopped day dreaming about what their fight would look like to observers, and started taking it seriously and basically let the force guide him it wasnt even a contest.

"Plagueis took a moment to wonder if anyone at the fort was observing the results of the contest, which from afar, must have looked like lightning flashing through the forests understory."

"Realising that the fight could go on indefinitely, he took himself out of his body and began working his materiel self like a marionette, no longer on the offensive, instigating attacks, but merely responding to venemis's strikes. Gradually the bith understood that something had changed-that up until then had been a fight to the death seemed suddenly like a training exercise. Exasperated, he doubled his efforts, fighting harder, more desperately, putting more power into each maneuver and blow, and in the end surrendering his precision and accuracy."

"At the height of venemis's attack, plagueis came back into himself with such fury that his lightsaber became a blinding rod. A two handed upward swing launched from between his legs caught venemis off guard. The blade didnt go deep enough to puncture the biths lung but scorched him from chest to chin. As his large, cleft head snapped backward in retreat, Plagueis brought his lightsaber straight down, tearing venemis's weapon from his gloved hand and nearly taking off his long fingers as well."

And thats with venemis holding every advantage, prior knowledge of plagueis, and being trained by Plagueis's master to counter his style.

Beniboybling
It baffles me how people intepret working himself like a marionette as letting an external power guide his actions when it's explictly Plagueis doing the puppeteering. erm

Nah, he used a mixture of technical skill and clever strategy to cause Venamis to overextend so that he could defeat him. That doesn't mean that Venamis was an easy fight for him, quite the opposite the fact that he was unable to defeat Venamis through conventional means suggests the opposite.

SunRazer
@Razer 22 -Not really. He said that if he just kept fighting normally, it'd be a fight that went on forever. So he decided to switch tactics.

Although as you said, Venamis was trained to counter Plagueis.

Raptor22
Originally posted by Beniboybling
It baffles me how people intepret working himself like a marionette as letting an external power guide his actions when it's explictly Plagueis doing the puppeteering. erm

Nah, he used a mixture of technical skill and clever strategy to cause Venamis to overextend so that he could defeat him. That doesn't mean that Venamis was an easy fight for him, quite the opposite the fact that he was unable to defeat Venamis through conventional means suggests the opposite. however u interpret that sentence changes nothing. As soon as he stops daydreaming and takes it seriously its no longer is a contest.

The fact that Plagueis wasn't even focusing on his opponent and instead was daydreaming about what the fight would look like to observers, and when he got serious and started to pay attention, he proceeded to make the fight akin to a training session would suggest it was fairly easy.

Also u didnt address venemis's advantages. How do u Whenk the fight would have gone if they switched places and Plagueis had prior knowledge of Venemis's knew his style inside and out, and got to pick the time and place of the encounter, and was sent there by his master to kill him, taking it seriously the whole time.

While at the same time, Venemis knows nothing about Plagueis, wasn't trained specifically to kill him, and didnt get to pick the time and place of the fight where be could hop around on tree branches which is perfectly suited to his acrobatic style.

Raptor22
Originally posted by SunRazer
@Razer 22 -Not really. He said that if he just kept fighting normally, it'd be a fight that went on forever. So he decided to switch tactics.

Although as you said, Venamis was trained to counter Plagueis. sry but it never says such a thing. There is nothing inbetween the quotes i posted. He goes directly from daydreaming about what the fight looked like to observers, to thinking basically, if i dont start paying attention this could take forever. Then he gets serious and proceeds to tool on him as if it were a training session.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by Raptor22
however u interpret that sentence changes nothing. As soon as he stops daydreaming and takes it seriously its no longer is a contest.Nope this is just conjecture, nowhere is Plagueis described as daydreaming or not taking the fight seriously, certainly a bizarre approach to take having just been tagged.

Thinking about his opponent and thinking about how he's being perceived are not mutually exclusive. It becoming like a training exercise because Plagueis stopped being active and became passive, not because his opponent was a push over.

Neither did you address why Plagueis didn't simply beat him through conventional means. On the other hand, I don't see the relevance of this question. I never denied that Venamis went into that fight with significant advantages, but it would have gone in indefinitely all the same. Skill aside Venamis clearly rivalled Plagueis in strength, speed and stamina.

On the other hand the location of the fight was a product of sheer circumstance, you exaggerate its relevance.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by Raptor22
sry but it never says such a thing. There is nothing inbetween the quotes i posted. He goes directly from daydreaming about what the fight looked like to observers, to thinking basically, if i dont start paying attention this could take forever. Then he gets serious and proceeds to tool on him as if it were a training session. No darling, that's exactly what's said:

Realising that the fight could go on indefinitely, he took himself out of his body and began working his materiel self like a marionette

You are the one making shit up lmao.

Raptor22
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Nope this is just conjecture, nowhere is Plagueis described as daydreaming or not taking the fight seriously, certainly a bizarre approach to take having just been tagged.

Thinking about his opponent and thinking about how he's being perceived are not mutually exclusive. It becoming like a training exercise because Plagueis stopped being active and became passive, not because his opponent was a push over.

Neither did you address why Plagueis didn't simply beat him through conventional means. On the other hand, I don't see the relevance of this question. I never denied that Venamis went into that fight with significant advantages, but it would have gone in indefinitely all the same. Skill aside Venamis clearly rivalled Plagueis in strength, speed and stamina.

On the other hand the location of the fight was a product of sheer circumstance, you exaggerate its relevance. whoops. Went to type response, pressed submit by accident

SunRazer
Originally posted by Beniboybling
No darling, that's exactly what's said:

Realising that the fight could go on indefinitely, he took himself out of his body and began working his materiel self like a marionette

You are the one making shit up lmao.

thumb up

SunRazer
Also, Tenebrous being Ventress level? Just when the psychologists thought they figured out what was wrong with DC's mind... smile

Raptor22
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Nope this is just conjecture, nowhere is Plagueis described as daydreaming or not taking the fight seriously, certainly a bizarre approach to take having just been tagged.

Thinking about his opponent and thinking about how he's being perceived are not mutually exclusive. It becoming like a training exercise because Plagueis stopped being active and became passive, not because his opponent was a push over.

Neither did you address why Plagueis didn't simply beat him through conventional means. On the other hand, I don't see the relevance of this question. I never denied that Venamis went into that fight with significant advantages, but it would have gone in indefinitely all the same. Skill aside Venamis clearly rivalled Plagueis in strength, speed and stamina.

On the other hand the location of the fight was a product of sheer circumstance, you exaggerate its relevance. lol. Plagueis daydreaming about what observers might be thinking of during the fight is exactly what the text describes. Denying it changes nothing. I agree it is a strange approach, yet its the approach he took.

His focus was divided and not soley on his opponent and the fight. Once again denying it changes nothing. If a boxer is in a fight and instead of thinking about his opponents next move or his strategy, but is thinking about what the crowd thinks of the fight then his focus is split. They re not mutually exclusive, but u cant have one without taking away from the other.

It became like a training exercise because venemis became completly outclassed and over matched no matter ho hard he tried, much like a trainee would.


Plagueis didnt beat him right away because he was distracted with the thoughts of his master having another apprentice, training and sending Venamis to kill him, and randomly daydreaming about observers. He did end it right away when he got his head in the game.

Yeah makes total sense that if one fighter had a bunch of huge advantages like prior knowledge of the other fighter, and specific training to beat them by their own master, and these were removed from the fighter and given to the other, then the fight would still go the same. Its an interesting debat approach. Saying stupid, nonsensical things in an effort to confuse me. Well played.


Lol. Yep pure circumstance. Like they just bumped into eachother on the subway. Its not like one of them was sent to kill the other and had been hunting him down.

With all this reaching, your arm is undoubtedly getting sore by now. I suggest ice. If u need the recipe let me know, ill hook u up.

Raptor22
Originally posted by Beniboybling
No darling, that's exactly what's said:

Realising that the fight could go on indefinitely, he took himself out of his body and began working his materiel self like a marionette

You are the one making shit up lmao. sry hun, he never says the fight will take forever if he keeps fighting normally. However he does realize the fight will take forever if he doesnt stop daydreaming and focus.

Unless u think in a normal fight for him, he would be thinking about things like his master having a secret apprentice, sending him here to kill him and training him specifically to counter his style, and what woods people may be thinking.at the time.

SunRazer
It wasn't an instant win even after Plagueis switched tactics. It says that Venamis "gradually" began to understand that things were changing (which it means it took time), and only once Venamis reached the height of his attack did Plagueis counterattack.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by Raptor22
lol. Plagueis daydreaming about what observers might be thinking of during the fight is exactly what the text describes. Denying it changes nothing. I agree it is a strange approach, yet its the approach he took.

His focus was divided and not soley on his opponent and the fight. Once again denying it changes nothing. If a boxer is in a fight and instead of thinking about his opponents next move or his strategy, but is thinking about what the crowd thinks of the fight then his focus is split. They re not mutually exclusive, but u cant have one without taking away from the other.That's not daydreaming, that's thinking about one thing while doing another, something Plagueis, as an individual who genetically beyond average mental functions should be perfectly capable of doing without diverting attention from the task at hand. Bearing in mind this particular thought would have occupied Plagueis' mind for a fraction of the fight, not the entire duel kek.

So no, that Plagueis wasn't paying attention remains conjecture.

Lol, it was because it felt like a training exercise that Venamis "doubled his efforts", not the other way around, so another misreading.

He didn't end it right away, he changed tactics to create an opening in which to end it, whereas by your logic all he needed to do was focus.

If that's what you want to believe? Can't remember ever saying as much myself.

You're becoming confused all by yourself friend, don't give me the credit.

No rather it was circumstance that Venamis tracked him to Sojourn and lured him into a forest to engage him in a duel, rather than another location had Plagueis been there instead. Try to apply some common sense.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by Raptor22
sry hun, he never says the fight will take forever if he keeps fighting normally. However he does realize the fight will take forever if he doesnt stop daydreaming and focus.Funny the words "stop", "daydreaming" and "focus" aren't anywhere mentioned in that passage, nor are any synonyms. Yet the words "fight" and "indefinitely" are, and then he starts fighting differently.

Is this perhaps an act or are you in fact as illiterate as you sound?

Ignoring your reading errors, that's an irrelevant question, rather what you should be asking is was Plagueis fighting effectively? In which case we have no reasonable cause to believe he wasn't. thumb up

Raptor22
Originally posted by SunRazer
It wasn't an instant win even after Plagueis switched tactics. It says that Venamis "gradually" began to understand that things were changing (which it means it took time), and only once Venamis reached the height of his attack did Plagueis counterattack. i disagree. It might not have been an instant win, but as soon as Plagueis switched mindsets, Venemis was out matched and unable to affect Plagueis in the slightes.

The text states that Venemis's understanding of this fact came gradually not plagues's dominance.

Inbetween the switch and Plagueis's attack these are the phrases and adjectives the author uses to convey his intentions towards Venemis's currently-

"What up until then had felt like a fight to the death seemed suddenly like a trainjng exercise."

"Exasperated"

"He doubled bis efforts"

"Fighting harder, more desperatly"

"Gradually the bith understood that something had changed, that up until then had been a fight to the death seemed suddenly like a training exercise. Exasperated, he doubled his efforts, fighting harder, more desperately, putting more power into each maneuver and blow, and in the end surrendering his precision and accuracy."

So Plagueis steps up his game a notch, and venemis gradually realises hes outmatched, like he's in a training session. He becomes exasperated, doubling his efforts to no avail becomes desperate and gets sloppy, and plagueis ends it.

How anyone can read that and think he was still putting up a good fight is very confusing to me.

Beniboybling
facepalm

What a complete misreading.

First Plagueis did not "step us his game a notch", it's explictly stated that he stopped attacking, he goes on the defensive. The reason it feels like a training exercise being because Plagueis became passive, seemingly not attempting to win, as if it were only practice.

Deronn_solo
Originally posted by SunRazer
Also, Tenebrous being Ventress level?

In terms of feats, he kinda is. smile

My mind is A-okay. smile

SunRazer
Really? Ventress nearly knocking over Plagueis with running, and making it difficult for Plagueis to keep up? Supporting the collapse of layer after layer of falling debris with no evident strain? Instantly erecting Barriers that can repel explosions? Sensing the death of her individual midi-chlorians? etc.

Raptor22
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Funny the words "stop", "daydreaming" and "focus" aren't anywhere mentioned in that passage, nor are any synonyms. Yet the words "fight" and "indefinitely" are, and then he starts fighting differently.

Is this perhaps an act or are you in fact as illiterate as you sound?

Ignoring your reading errors, that's an irrelevant question, rather what you should be asking is was Plagueis fighting effectively? In which case we have no reasonable cause to believe he wasn't. thumb up i feel like im explaining things to a 5 year old.

" He took a moment to wonder if anyone at the fort..." gee i wonder what he toom a moment from. Perhaps it was from his focus on the fight. All it takes is the slightest level of reading comprehension.

Only a moron would argue that taking a moment to wonder about frivolous things while in the middle of a life or death isnt equivalent to daydreaming for a moment.

Example- while miss smith was explaining ww2, little jonny took a moment to wonder what her boobs look like.

Is he daydreaming about her boobs? Yes

Is his complete focus on her lecture? No

Were either focus or daydreaming mentioned in the snetence? Nope

But from the info were given we can extrapolate other facts.

Like if someone told u they have exactly 2 five dollar bill, a compentant person would extrapat that they have ten dollars, even though the number ten never got said.

Beniboybling
Your grasp of basic spelling and grammar is deteriorating exponentially, maybe just stop before you hurt yourself. erm

Raptor22
Originally posted by Beniboybling

If that's what you want to believe? Can't remember ever saying as much myself.
"I never denied that Venamis went into that fight with significant advantages, but it would have gone in indefinitely all the same."- beniboybling

Since u can't even remember or understand the things u yourself write, why should i be suprised that an actual book confuses u.

The rest of what u say is equally nonsensical, and has already been explained to u. Try reading it slower, and over and over a few times and u might understand. If not, im sure a special person like u has some sort of helper that might be able to help u get it.

Raptor22
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Your grasp of basic spelling and grammar is deteriorating exponentially, maybe just stop before you hurt yourself. erm Ah the old nothing but ad hominem response. Always a sign of weakness.

Beniboybling
Where do they get these people. smile

Raptor22
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Where do they get these people. smile even tho your tucking your tail and walking away in shame at least u can take solace in the fact that u tried. Go away, lick your wounds and maybe u can try again another day.

chingchangwalla
TPM Maul

Deronn_solo
Sorry Beni Babe, Raptor slaughtered you here. laughing out loud

Beniboybling
Originally posted by chingchangwalla oh no. smile

Beniboybling
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Sorry Beni Babe, Raptor slaughtered you here. laughing out loud Siding with the illiterate now as well DC? You really are plummeting fast. sad

Deronn_solo
I still luv u tho. <3

Fated Xtasy
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
I still luv u tho. <3

DC, what ya think of the Desann stuff I find? Told ya it was neat :P

chingchangwalla
Originally posted by Beniboybling
oh no. smile

<3

Beniboybling
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
I still luv u tho. <3 love

Raptor22
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Siding with the illiterate now as well DC? You really are plummeting fast. sad why so salty? Could it be from me nutting all over u in this thread?Go take a shower, wash off the shame and come back with a better attitude.

Beniboybling
No just being honest dear, I can understand why this can sometimes be upsetting. sad

Fated Xtasy
Originally posted by Raptor22
why so salty? Could it be from me nutting all over u in this thread?Go take a shower, wash off the shame and come back with a better attitude.

Not like you can squirt anything out of that thing. No need to be ashamed of that though, boo.

Also. Back the **** off.

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by Raptor22
but then in the same paragraph defended against his attacks as if he were facing a trainee

That's not what the text is saying. It's stating that Plagueis while giving mote responses was like a training exercise for Venamis which as Beni mentioned caused him to overextend as Plagueis lulled him into a false sense of security before going at him full force and taking him out.

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
People these days don't even give a shit about the quality of one's argument, they only care about the debater and/or the subject of the debate.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Sorry Beni Babe, Raptor slaughtered you here. laughing out loud

smile

Deronn_solo
You're implying I have a problem with Beni, I don't. smile

cs_zoltan
I implied no such thing.

"And/or subject of the debate."

You are notorious for your intermediate RoT lowballing. I could shit on a paper and you'd call it a convincing argument against them smile

Deronn_solo
No. smile

I hate you. smile

Raptor22
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Not like you can squirt anything out of that thing. No need to be ashamed of that though, boo.

Also. Back the **** off. calm down tinkerbell. Im sure your husband can fight his own battles.

Deronn_solo
Ooooooooooooooooooooooh.

Ursumeles
WTF happens here, lol. I like it tho smile

Fated Xtasy
Originally posted by Raptor22
calm down tinkerbell. Im sure your husband can fight his own battles.

I mean, he's doing a very good job of thrashing you around rn tbh.

lol. But welcome back Raptor. Haven't seen you in awhile.

Raptor22
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
I mean, he's doing a very good job of thrashing you around rn tbh.

lol. But welcome back Raptor. Haven't seen you in awhile. thanks. Havent really been away, im always luking, just dont have as much time to post as id like. How've u been.

Freedon Nadd
Jar Jar

Fated Xtasy
Originally posted by Raptor22
thanks. Havent really been away, im always luking, just dont have as much time to post as id like. How've u been.

Good. Less emotional. Thicker skin etc. You know how it be

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