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- Force
- Sabers
- All Out

~ Dooku is in his Prime
~ Late TCW Anakin

Sidious should win all, but maybe 'sabers.

Darth Sidious annihilates.

lmao

Originally posted by Azronger
Darth Sidious annihilates. Tbh.

Sidious loses sabers, wins force, and wins all out 7-8/10

Sidious wins all.

Saber feats for TPM Sidious?

Also is he utilizing Jar Kai in this fight?

Wouldn't it be logical to assume that (when it comes to skill and refinement) TPM Sidious would be close to prime when it comes to lightsaber combat

It was stated that the lightsabers he kept in his office hadn't been touched in "decades" come ROTS

TPM sidious would be closer to the time period when he mastered all lightsaber forms

Therefore he stomps sabers as well

But does the increase in power from TPM to RotS compensate for the skill-loss? If so, TPM Sidious is still inferior to his RotS self in sabers.

Originally posted by hutchy1345
Therefore he stomps sabers as well
I don't think anyone would stomp two Dooku level opponents, in 'sabers, tbh.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
I don't think anyone would stomp two Dooku level opponents, in 'sabers, tbh.

(Luke)


But yeah stomp is the wrong word

Defeat then

7-8/10

- Force Team 6/10
- Sabers Team 10/10
- All Out Team 8/10

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
- Force Team 6/10
- Sabers Team 10/10
- All Out Team 8/10 Bold

Sidious takes all.

Anakin and Dooku in sabers and all out.

Canon versions or EU?

Regardless team takes sabers. Sidious likely wins both force and all out.

Sidious in all. I'd say sabers is close, but Anakin and Dooku wouldn't coordinate well, if we're assuming standard morals.

Sidious wins all.

eu anakin in his prime could solo, but not a vastly pre prime version of him

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
eu anakin in his prime could solo, but not a vastly pre prime version of him

EU Anakin in his prime? Not a single version of Anakin we've seen can solo a single version of Sidious we've seen.

Except for Mortakin.

Originally posted by Petrus
EU Anakin in his prime? Not a single version of Anakin we've seen can solo a single version of Sidious we've seen.

Except for Mortakin.

Knightfall could, maybe. And Mortakin is Zonakin. I don't know why people separate them.

Originally posted by Azronger
Knightfall could, maybe. And Mortakin is Zonakin. I don't know why people separate them.

Uh, no he isn't.


Zonakin is a focused, determined and angry yet mentally unhindered Anakin, who fights at the peak of his current abilities.

Mortakin is what he would be at his maximum potential, as made clear by The Father. There's absolutely no way Zonakin can dominate The Son and The Daughter simultaneously nor is there anything that indicates he's the same incarnation as Mortakin, lol.

Originally posted by Petrus
Uh, no he isn't.


Zonakin is a focused, determined and angry yet mentally unhindered Anakin, who fights at the peak of his current abilities.

Mortakin is what he would be at his maximum potential, as made clear by The Father. There's absolutely no way Zonakin can dominate The Son and The Daughter simultaneously nor is there anything that indicates he's the same incarnation as Mortakin, lol.

No, the Father doesn't mention - or imply - anything of the sort. In fact he outright states what prevents Anakin from fulfilling his potential are his psychological barriers, not his physical ones: "You must now release your guilt, and free yourself by choosing." When those barrier's are removed, Anakin has access to virtually infinite power. There's nothing else preventing Anakin from achieving his full potential, as should be rather obvious from the fact that did ragdoll the Ones. How could he have done it if he wasn't strong enough?

"The zone" is the exact same thing: his restraint - his psychological barriers - were gone, and Anakin likens it to a dream where the only thing that existed were his desires and power. The narrator also states that what Anakin wills is reality. That is far more than just focus and determination, lmao.

On the Invisible Hand, he decided Dooku should lose, and he did. On Mortis, he decided the Son and the Daughter should release Ahsoka and Obi-Wan, and they did.

Originally posted by Azronger
No, the Father doesn't mention - or imply - anything of the sort. In fact he outright states what prevents Anakin from fulfilling his potential are his psychological barriers, not his physical ones: "You must now release your guilt, and free yourself by choosing." When those barrier's are removed, Anakin has access to virtually infinite power. There's nothing else preventing Anakin from achieving his full potential, as should be rather obvious from the fact that did ragdoll the Ones. How could he have done it if he wasn't strong enough?

"The zone" is the exact same thing: his restraint - his psychological barriers - were gone, and Anakin likens it to a dream where the only thing that existed were his desires and power. The narrator also states that what Anakin wills is reality. That is far more than just focus and determination, lmao.

On the Invisible Hand, he decided Dooku should lose, and he did. On Mortis, he decided the Son and the Daughter should release Ahsoka and Obi-Wan, and they did.

In one scenario, Anakin was in Mortis and dominates arguably the two most powerful entities with extreme ease.

In the other scenario, Anakin fights Dooku and eventually starts dominating him in a saber duel.

Had Anakin been in the same state he was on Mortis, it would've taken him less than 5 seconds to subdue and kill Dooku in any way he deemed necessary. It wasn't the case; not even close to it, in fact, as Dooku resisted even though he was losing.

I don't remember if it was S4 or 5 of TCW, but Anakin also dominated Dooku for most of their encounter until finally and barely, the Count managed to hold him off and defeat him. We're talking about an Anakin less powerful and skilled than the one we see in RotS. Rather than 'the zone' Anaking being >>> standard Anakin, it's completely logical to assume there really wasn't that much of a difference between him and Dooku in S5/4 of TCW, and that by RotS, he needed only to be focused and to control his rage in order to defeat him.

Yeah lets consider for a second that the Son of Mortis beat Anakin in martial combat in about a sixth of the time it took Anakin to beat Dooku once he went Zonakin mode... and the Son of Mortis was ****ing around while Zonakin was actually trying. Then consider that Mortakin beat two Son of Mortis level Force wielders at once.

It's pretty ****ing obvious that Dooku would not last any stretch of time against a Mortakin level opponent, and if Anakin were really in the same state both times, he would've stomped Dooku much harder than the Son stomped him in martial combat.

LOL at it taking the Daughter or the Son 0.5 miliseconds, let alone 5 seconds, to subdue Dooku.

Their sh!t sh!ts on sh!t that sh!ts on sh!t that beats Dooku.

Originally posted by Petrus
In one scenario, Anakin was in Mortis and dominates arguably the two most powerful entities with extreme ease.

In the other scenario, Anakin fights Dooku and eventually starts dominating him in a saber duel.

Had Anakin been in the same state he was on Mortis, it would've taken him less than 5 seconds to subdue and kill Dooku in any way he deemed necessary. It wasn't the case; not even close to it, in fact, as Dooku resisted even though he was losing.

It did take him less than five seconds, lol. The instant Anakin decided Dooku should lose his hand, Dooku did:

He decides that Dooku should lose the same hand he took. Decision is reality, here: his blade moves simultaneously with his will and blue fire vaporizes black Corellian nanosilk and disintegrates flesh and shears bone, and away falls a Sith Lord's lightsaber hand, trailing smoke that tastes of charred meat and burned hair.

-RotS novel

Anakin simply hadn't decided to win before that moment, as is rather apparent from the text. You failed to address my other points as well.



Not sure what your point is here, or how any of this disproves what I've argued.

Originally posted by Azronger
It did take him less than five seconds, lol. The instant Anakin decided Dooku should lose his hand, Dooku did:

He decides that Dooku should lose the same hand he took. Decision is reality, here: his blade moves simultaneously with his will and blue fire vaporizes black Corellian nanosilk and disintegrates flesh and shears bone, and away falls a Sith Lord's lightsaber hand, trailing smoke that tastes of charred meat and burned hair.

-RotS novel

Anakin simply hadn't decided to win before that moment, as is rather apparent from the text. You failed to address my other points as well.

What "Anakin wills" became reality because Anakin was superior to Dooku. That doesn't prove he was in the same state as Mortakin. Are you telling me that Anakin simply didn't want/hadn't decided to win prior to that nanosecond? Like, all the time he was fighting him before, he was just not sure if he actually wanted to beat the Count and save the Chancellor...? Kinda flawed logic there.

You're interpreting it on a way that doesn't make much sense. I mean, that's essentially what your argument is, a subjective interpretation of text.

What other points, tbh?




It does, if you look into it. Anakin as of S4/5 of TCW is not at all that much weaker than Dooku, as seen in his fight against him . Standard Anakin almost overpowers Dooku with his sheer strength and skill. It's logical to assume that as of RotS, Anakin was even more powerful and skilled, and thus, would've surpassed Dooku by then. The fact that there isn't that much of a gap between S4/5 TCW Anakin and Dooku proves that RotS Anakin's domination of him isn't due to a Oneness state , but more of an extreme focus. If it really was due to a Oneness state, he would've decimated Dooku far more thoroughly than he did. Dooku even managed to put up some resistance against Anakin's relentless attack, as seen in the movie, which is higher canon than the novel.

I think people take Stover's flowery writing and poetically charged hyperbolic text a bit too literal.

Especially when things like this exist:
Originally posted by Emperordmb
According to the ROTS novel at one point Obi-Wan's such an amazing fighter because he empties himself of himself and becomes nothing more than a hollow vessel, yet a few paragraphs later it states that he's as good as he is by simply being who he is. So which way is it then Stover? WHICH WAY IS IT?!

Well it's supposed to be like hinduism, AKA retarded and paradoxical. Achieve the self by hollowing the self, the self is all and all is the self, that sort of thing.

Duo wins. Dooku was holding his own against Yoda and Anakin => Dooku.