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Both at their peaks - who wins?

Holistically, Plagueis. Good fite tho

Probably Plagueis.

Hego should win, but it'd be a bloodbath.

I agree, Plagueis baths the stars in Caedus' blood

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
I agree, Plagueis baths the stars in Caedus' blood
http://37.media.tumblr.com/9b88d60df715a8b6742f2eacf9ffe86c/tumblr_n9ne6qyDKK1s2zaudo3_r1_500.gif

Caedus should lose quite handily.

Plagueis wins comfortably.

Caedus wins

bump.

I'd go Caedus.

Plagueis, and it isn't close.

caedus

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I'd go Caedus. Why?

Originally posted by MythLord
Hego should win, but it'd be a bloodbath.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Holistically, Plagueis. Good fite tho

Plagueis but in a pretty damn good fight

Plagueis completely destroys this fool

Up

Originally posted by Emperordmb
http://37.media.tumblr.com/9b88d60df715a8b6742f2eacf9ffe86c/tumblr_n9ne6qyDKK1s2zaudo3_r1_500.gif



Didn't notice it back then.

Honestly, Caedus.

What a shitshow.

Anyway... there's nothing in my mind that suggests Caedus is any higher than a tier 8 swordsman. Maul level is fine, but he might not even be there. Caedus functions best as an all rounder. That means he doesn't rely on any single art to meet his ends in combat. For example, he would have been dispatched quicker than Lumiya against Luke if he :

1) wasn't already circumstantially amped
2) didn't use TK to retreat from the fight and poison Luke with a Vong entrapment.

Given that we have every reasonable reason to believe Plagueis is more powerful than Jacen, the subjectivity of novel blurbs withstanding, He should win a lightsaber fight.

Plagueis, absolutely.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Honestly, Caedus. Why?

Either way.

Sheev never presumably trained on his own as he wasn't interested in lightsaber combat, which would be consistent with his character after TPM when he only focused on the Force and didn't care for lightsabers at all, so we can conclude all he knew from lightsaber combat came from sparring with Plagueis. Sidious and Plagueis also talked about how the latter had bested the former in spars around the timeframe of TPM. There's also James Luceno (I don't personally care for authorial intent but for those who do, I'll drop this here) stating Plagueis would have beaten Palpatine in a duel during TPM.

Given how Sheev handled the B-team vs Caedus having problems with Katarn and co., I don't think the latter stacks up very favorably against Plagueis here. The winner is quite clear in my mind.

Is this a troll? Caedus gets murked

Originally posted by Azronger
There's also James Luceno (I don't personally care for authorial intent but for those who do, I'll drop this here) stating Plagueis would have beaten Palpatine in a duel during TPM.

Lightsaber skill isn't likely to be relevant in a duel between Sith of Sidious' and Plagueis' level.

The person who asked the question wasn't asking Luceno who would have won in a lightsaber fight.

Going with Caedus.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Why?
Going by feats and implied power alone, Caedus is the superior physical specimen and precognitive user, via knowing, and mastering - arcane techniques such as Fighting Sight, both being the cream of the crop in regards to lightsaber battles. Plagueis maybe the more powerful Force user, but I don't know if that's enough to circumvent Jacen's named advantages above.

The dude was capable of besting Jaina Solo while sporting a lightsaber wound in his gut and the loss of a ****ing limb. Obviously, Plagueis lacks showings as a pure fencer, so this battle is a little silly from the get-go.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Going by feats and implied power alone, Caedus is the superior physical specimen and precognitive user, via knowing, and mastering - arcane techniques such as Fighting Sight, both being the cream of the crop in regards to lightsaber battles. Plagueis maybe the more powerful Force user, but I don't know if that's enough to circumvent Jacen's named advantages above.

The dude was capable of besting Jaina Solo while sporting a lightsaber wound in his gut and the loss of a ****ing limb. Obviously, Plagueis lacks showings as a pure fencer, so this battle is a little silly from the get-go.
Make's ya wonder what kinda tard would make this thread, huh?

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Make's ya wonder what kinda tard would make this thread, huh?

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Going with Caedus.

Originally posted by Azronger
Sidious and Plagueis also talked about how the latter had bested the former in spars around the timeframe of TPM.

WHAT!? QUOTE!

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Lightsaber skill isn't likely to be relevant in a duel between Sith of Sidious' and Plagueis' level.

I disagree. Sidious has been stated to be "the most powerful Sith Master who ever lived" as of TPM and "possessed all of Plagueis' secrets" at that time, while additionally not lacking talent in any particular area e.g. Sith Sorcery like Plagueis does. Plagueis could hardly have beaten Sidious for a majority if lightsaber skill wasn't relevant.

Originally posted by MythLord
WHAT!? QUOTE!

"You have made him fearsome," Plagueis remarked without turning from the recording, as the athletic Zabrak cleaved a Collicoid Eradicator droid down the middle and whirled to cut two other in half. The yellow-eyed humanoid's hairless head bore a crown of small horns and geometrical patterns of black and red markings.

"Fearless, as well," Sidious said. "Still, they are only droids. He's even more formidable against living beings."

Plagueis looked over his should, his eyes narrowed in question. "You've fought him in a serious way?" Reconstructed vocal chords and trachea imparted a metallic quality to his voice, as if he were speaking through an enunciator.

"I stranded him on Hypori for a month without food and with only a horde of assassin droids for company. Then I returned to goad and challenge him. All things considered, he fought well, even after I deprived him of his lightsaber. He wanted to kill me, but was prepared to die by my hand."

Plagueis turned fully to face him. "Rather than punish him for disobedience, you praise his resolve."

"He was already humbled. I chose to leave his honor intact. I proclaimed him my myrmidon; the embodiment of the violent half of our partnership."

"Parthership?" Plagueis repeated harshly.

"His and mine; not ours."

"Regardless, you allowed him to believe that he is more skilled than he actually is."

"Did you not do the same for me?"

Plagueis' eyes reflected in disappointment. "Never, Sidious. I have always been truthful with you."

Darth Plagueis

Interesting, never picked up on that. Yeah, that's a strong indication of where Sidious' skill really comes from, and how well Plagueis can perform against him.

Not that there's much doubt Plagueis is a great duelist to begin with, but for the nay-sayers...

Originally posted by ILS
Interesting, never picked up on that. Yeah, that's a strong indication of where Sidious' skill really comes from, and how well Plagueis can perform against him.

Not that there's much doubt Plagueis is a great duelist to begin with, but for the nay-sayers...

You know what else makes you think? That Tenebrous hadn't "actually trained" Plagueis in virtually anything, yet we know that Plagueis is just as skilled as Sidious with a lightsaber... It's quite curious to think about what that implies for Tenebrous.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Going by feats and implied power alone, Caedus is the superior physical specimen and precognitive user, via knowing, and mastering - arcane techniques such as Fighting Sight, both being the cream of the crop in regards to lightsaber battles. Plagueis maybe the more powerful Force user, but I don't know if that's enough to circumvent Jacen's named advantages above.

The dude was capable of besting Jaina Solo while sporting a lightsaber wound in his gut and the loss of a ****ing limb. Obviously, Plagueis lacks showings as a pure fencer, so this battle is a little silly from the get-go. Interesting. So you don't rank LotF Jaina as below shit level like most of the forum does...?

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Going by feats and implied power alone, Caedus is the superior physical specimen Really doubting this, given Plagueis' performance against the Maladian assassins while suffering from a partial amputation of his jaw and neck, several gushing blood vessels, and two of his three hearts failing, while the third compensated for all cardiovascular functions independently... and his proximity to Sidious.
Didn't really aid him against Katarn and co. Caedus learned some cool abilities, but his precog being better than Plagueis/Sidious' is dubious.
It was a stalemate in the end, but your point is taken.

Plagueis was at least equal to a Sidious who moved so fast, and was so skilled, TPM Maul wouldn't be able to a lay finger on him, let alone react in a meaningful way. We can go back and forth about who's better out of Maul and Jaina, but I think they compare favourably enough to each other. And I sort of doubt Caedus is so much better than Jaina he would essentially blitz her. That's not really supported by any of his showings, namely fighting the Katarn group, which as a feat, is comparable to what Grievous did on Hypori, let alone what the higher tiers of that time period, like Plagueis, are capable of.

Not to mention, you're suggesting we create a bifurcation between Plagueis power as a Force wielder and his power as a fencer - but the two are intertwined, much like they are with Caedus. And since we're aware Plagueis is conclusively more powerful than Caedus, it makes sense that for the same reasons, he'll be a better duelist, and I think the evidence supports this.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Going by feats and implied power alone, Caedus is the superior physical specimen

Plagueis is both more feat-wealthy in objectivity and has better implied power thank you very much. There is enough for Plagueis in a single book to mog the feats battle hard, despite his opponent having been in 100 times more sources. There was, for example, no point in said book where Plagueis was ever pinned and overpowered by a single mandalorian warrior, but instead a scene were he was dying from severe bloodloss and heart failure (i.e.- a worse state than Caedus against Jaina) and he still put his hand through armoured torso. All pre-Force unbalancing.



If fight sight lent Caedus a guaranteed victory in lightsaber battles, it would have saw him though circumstances where he opted out of a duel and started throwing things at his opponent. If it's just enhanced pre cog, than the power gap can make up for it here. We've seen Plagueis reach a similar state against Venamis... However, assuming this technique is beholden to the same limitations all force powers are, using it probably means he's making a compromise - enhanced perception at the cost of augmentation, perhaps? Which would explain why he never used the technique to automatic victory against Luke, Kyle or Aurra Sing.



He's definitely the more powerful force user, and probably more skilled too tbh regarding Sidious' training. The onus is on you to provide evidence that "fight-sight" is a game changer in all this.




Jaina at this time not even being ATOC obi wan level, as implied by her own statements and a lack of contradiction from all those within earshot.

also

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Obviously, Plagueis lacks showings as a pure fencer, so this battle is a little silly from the get-go.
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Make's ya wonder what kinda tard would make this thread, huh?
Originally posted by Deronn_solo

Both at their peaks - who wins?

https://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Christian-Bale-Laughing-at-Awards-Show.gif

Well, that wasn't planned, but there you go DC. We eagerly await your response.

maybe plagueis

-

Originally posted by twotter



Jaina at this time not even being ATOC obi wan level, as implied by her own statements and a lack of contradiction from all those within earshot.
Subjective character opinions also put Jaina even with Luke :hmmm

Nice post Zig and Swords, and solid roast Fated.

Got ditracted by NFL today, but I'll respond in full tomorrow.

If only we had a respect thread for Caedus, we'd be able to see how good he is.

What a shame.

I heard a certain boi was making it. Still hasn't been released, tho.

So DC's never gonna respond?

shocker

https://media.giphy.com/media/Y8SqjWuohk8Rq/giphy.gif