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Fight takes place on Korriban.

Jadus. I hold Jadus as approaching Plagueis level, somewhere between prime Vader and Plagueis, which is above Muur, if only just.

^ You'll get scolded for that.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
^ You'll get scolded for that. Oh I know. I just don't care at this point. I'm just gonna let the most cancerous of my opinions roll and see how many of you commit Seppeku before I'm done laughing.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Oh I know. I just don't care at this point. I'm just gonna let the most cancerous of my opinions roll and see how many of you commit Seppeku before I'm done laughing. But a few days ago you wanted to be taken seriously as debater. Seems legit

Originally posted by Ursumeles
But a few days ago you wanted to be taken seriously as debater. Seems legit I realized that isn't gonna happen, so **** it, let's bug some people.

Ah, and so you scare off the last guys who took you seriously here.
Makes sense

For some of the quotes I use to support my scaling, look no further.

"With his humanity long forgotten and his face unseen, Marr's inner thoughts are impossible to determine. But his desire to leave a strong Empire behind him is unquestioned, and his abilities are second to none."

―Darth Marr Codex Entry (Star Wars: The Old Republic)

This would mean that, combatively speaking, Malgus was Marr's only real superior (this was after the battle of Ilum) outside of Jadus (who was dead or presumed so at this point.) Making Marr more powerful than any other Sith in the Empire at this point in time.

Darth Mortis, during the campaign against Malgus, stated that Nox would have been able to give Malgus "the fight of his life" suggesting that Nox is a near equal to FE Malgus (Malgus being one of Vader's peers.) Marr being >Nox as per the provided quote, would then confirm Marr as being at least close to Vader's level.

You keep contradicting yourself. Malgus is Marr's real superior, but Nox is close to Malgus and inferior to Marr, so Marr is > Malgus who is a peer of Vader(I baselessly proclaim) and a guy said Jadus is 2nd to Vitiate so hurrr duurrr Jadus is Plagueis level!

Not like your accolades are actually legitimate. They're subjective character statements. The only legitimate one is the Codex Entry, which was technically made before the player even reached Act III so it shouldn't apply to prime Nox or Wrath in any sense, or FE Malgus really. And even then, the Codex Entry is also in-universe so it's not concrete.

Also, you can't cherry pick the point to which the Codex Entry accolade is valid and to which point it's not. If it says Marr is "second to none", that would include Jadus. Jadus is thus inferior and your whole failed attempt at scaling goes down the toilet.

The codex entry can be argued to be about his administrative skills imo. The rest of the paragraph is talking about his abilities as a leader, so the context fits better.

That is also a possibility.

Yet they're canonical. Also, at very least is Plagueis in Vitiate's league. You yourself said Vitty = RotS Sidious (who has enough accolades that put him above Vitty, btw), and by all means, Plagueis should be rather close to RotS Sidious.

Wasn't she from the Imperial Intelligence, also a agent from Jadus himself? She is probably biased. Either way, Marr has similar accolades. Also, see Myth's post.

Good that, bar Jadus, all DC members are Sub-Kenobi scrubs.

You also failed to explain how the Marr -> Jadus gap is bigger then the TUF -> RotJ Vader gap.
And based on what is Malgus Vader's peer?

Valkorion calls Jadus the greatest Sith in his empires history, so..... Watcher Two's statement is accurate.

Lol @ the DC being sub-kenobi. Thanaton would beat Obi-Wan pretty easily.

Originally posted by MythLord
Also, you can't cherry pick the point to which the Codex Entry accolade is valid and to which point it's not. If it says Marr is "second to none", that would include Jadus. Jadus is thus inferior and your whole failed attempt at scaling goes down the toilet.

Why can't you? You said yourself they are from an in-universe perspective. You get the Codex on Makeb, and it talks in present tense. By Makeb neither Jadus, nor Malgus is part of the Empire.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The codex entry can be argued to be about his administrative skills imo. The rest of the paragraph is talking about his abilities as a leader, so the context fits better.

No, it doesn't lmao. The Codex starts by saying what a great warrior he is, and how we leads from the front lines. Then it talks about his morality, and in the end it says: "But his desire to leave a strong Empire behind him is unquestioned, and his abilities are second to none."

That's a pretty retarded way to say he is the best leader in the Empire. When talking about ability of a force user most of the time they mean power or skill not f-ucking leadership lmao.

Originally posted by MythLord
You keep contradicting yourself. Malgus is Marr's real superior, but Nox is close to Malgus and inferior to Marr, so Marr is > Malgus who is a peer of Vader(I baselessly proclaim) and a guy said Jadus is 2nd to Vitiate so hurrr duurrr Jadus is Plagueis level!

Not like your accolades are actually legitimate. They're subjective character statements. The only legitimate one is the Codex Entry, which was technically made before the player even reached Act III so it shouldn't apply to prime Nox or Wrath in any sense, or FE Malgus really. And even then, the Codex Entry is also in-universe so it's not concrete.

Also, you can't cherry pick the point to which the Codex Entry accolade is valid and to which point it's not. If it says Marr is "second to none", that would include Jadus. Jadus is thus inferior and your whole failed attempt at scaling goes down the toilet. Malgus is Marr's only superior by the Battle of Ilum because Jadus was presumed dead at that point in time, so when Malgus died Marr was presumed to be the most powerful Sith alive at the time. There's no contradictions there.

You countered 1/3 of his post kek

Originally posted by MythLord
You keep contradicting yourself. Malgus is Marr's real superior, but Nox is close to Malgus and inferior to Marr, so Marr is > Malgus who is a peer of Vader(I baselessly proclaim) and a guy said Jadus is 2nd to Vitiate so hurrr duurrr Jadus is Plagueis level!

Not like your accolades are actually legitimate. They're subjective character statements. The only legitimate one is the Codex Entry, which was technically made before the player even reached Act III so it shouldn't apply to prime Nox or Wrath in any sense, or FE Malgus really. And even then, the Codex Entry is also in-universe so it's not concrete.

Also, you can't cherry pick the point to which the Codex Entry accolade is valid and to which point it's not. If it says Marr is "second to none", that would include Jadus. Jadus is thus inferior and your whole failed attempt at scaling goes down the toilet.
Malgus is Marr's only superior by the Battle of Ilum because Jadus was presumed dead at that point in time, so when Malgus died Marr was presumed to be the most powerful Sith alive at the time. There's no contradictions there.

The codex entry for Marr, to my knowledge, was unchanging, and so would need to be able to be applied to any changes that were made to the game after release. Which is why it doesn't go into detail. Meaning it can be applied to pretty much any point in time before Marr's death. So the quote still applies post Battle of Ilum, which is where my argument is centered.

It's not cherry picking, Jadus has accolades putting him above Marr, and he has feats to back those accolades. Based on these feats and accolads, Jadus IS >all other DC members, Malgus WAS >Marr, and now Marr IS >all currently living Sith as of the end of the Battle of Ilum.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
You countered 1/3 of his post kek There, I responded to the whole thing.

Going to bed, will respond later.

Muur wins. I'm not convinced that Jadus is superior in any sort of way that'd allow him to outright overpower Muur with TK or Lightning. And Dark Transfer, Drain and Tutaminis > Teleportation.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Malgus is Marr's only superior by the Battle of Ilum because Jadus was presumed dead at that point in time, so when Malgus died Marr was presumed to be the most powerful Sith alive at the time. There's no contradictions there.

The Codex Entry would've been made before the battle of Ilum, though, and there isn't a big gap inbetween Malgus' "death", Jadus' death and that battle so it's likely the Codex is taking Malgus and Jadus into account as well.

Originally posted by darthbane77
The codex entry for Marr, to my knowledge, was unchanging, and so would need to be able to be applied to any changes that were made to the game after release. Which is why it doesn't go into detail. Meaning it can be applied to pretty much any point in time before Marr's death. So the quote still applies post Battle of Ilum, which is where my argument is centered.

I'm not talking about before the game was released, you cretin. I'm talking about the fact that the Codex Entry would have been made for the Battle of Ilum so the player could find it during the battle of Ilum. That's how time works. Marr's accolade also isn't valid for several reasons:
1. It could be interpreted in other ways, and should be since it's talking about his political power and administrative abilities
2. The Codex Entries are still in-universe, so they are hardly objective
3. It completely contradicts the Jadus accolade you're trying to throw around

Originally posted by darthbane77
It's not cherry picking, Jadus has accolades putting him above Marr, and he has feats to back those accolades. Based on these feats and accolads, Jadus IS >all other DC members, Malgus WAS >Marr, and now Marr IS >all currently living Sith as of the end of the Battle of Ilum.

Jadus' statement of being > Marr is a character statement from Valkorion, who quite frankly was just trying to goad the player, and Watcher Two who has no idea what Marr is capable of. Marr himself isn't that impressive other than a vague quote. In fact, these quotes you're giving me are all actually less valid than the Plagueis blurb.

So we're back to square one. You have no basis other than character statements and conjecture, yet you deny more valid and objective statements since it doesn't suit your arbitrary hierarchy.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Valkorion calls Jadus the greatest Sith in his empires history, so..... Watcher Two's statement is accurate.

When was this?

Wtf is happening here?

Chapter 2 of KotFE, when you're playing as an Agent Valkorion comments on Jadus and says that he was "the greatest Sith my empire ever produced..... yet still no match for you."

Nice.

Originally posted by Nephthys

Lol @ the DC being sub-kenobi. Thanaton would beat Obi-Wan pretty easily.
They are, tbh. At least powerwise.
Nox, Jadus and possibly Marr & Baras are more powerful, but Baras is highly unlikely. Dunno 'bout Marr.
Kenobi's feats > Thanaton's, powerwise.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Chapter 2 of KotFE, when you're playing as an Agent Valkorion comments on Jadus and says that he was "the greatest Sith my empire ever produced..... yet still no match for you."
Ciphlander>>Plagueis confirmed :>

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Ciphlander >> Plagueis > Valkorion confirmed :>
Fixed.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Ciphlander>>Plagueis confirmed :>



Not even Ciphlander, thats Act 1 Cipher.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
They are, tbh. At least powerwise.

Bwahahaha!

Awesome reason, Neph
Give me something that places the DC (bar Nox, Jadus and Marr) > Kenobi.

Thanaton was able to easily 1-shot Nox (and Khem) who was amped by the power of two spirits, one of which was among the greatest sorcerers from the empire with statues of him in Kaas city. Nox was already defeating powerful Jedi Masters and Sith Lords prior to getting amped and was shattering stone with their lightning. Bare in mind that 40 years prior Thanaton was able to 1-shot terentateks with lightning, yet the gap between then and his future self was immense enough that he got owned in 1 attack by a vision of his later self.

Also I like how it's "Give me something for them (barring all of the ones with actual feats and screentime) that's > Kenobi". Can Nyriss be counted in this? What about the two who shattered a citadel with their duel?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Also I like how it's "Give me something for them (barring all of the ones with actual feats and screentime) that's > Kenobi". Can Nyriss be counted in this? What about the two who shattered a citadel with their duel?
No, it's like "Give me something for them (bar the ones I have above Kenobi)", that's > Kenobi.
As I don't think the "Jadus is the greatest" is enough to put him > all other Sith of the SE power-wise, I don't count Nyriss.
Nyriss is possibly > Kenobi as well, tho

I'd agree with you on the Jadus front, but its backed up by his Dominator feat which imo is a better feat than anything else from the Empire except for the obvious exception of the Dread Masters. So the statement is supported.

Regardless though, were anyone else to be a challenge to him (like Malgus, Wrath or Nox) it would simply be because they're that good imo.

I agree that these three could beat/challenge Jadus, and that Jadus is prolly the most powerful of these guys.
Also, Thanaton is more impressive than I remembered. Not more powerful than Obi, but prolly close

Yet still no match for Cipher 9. https://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-clint.gif

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/39/3a/6b/393a6b30a3445f00a30696cc0e7d3f9b.jpg

If Thanaton or Jadus:

If Kenobi: RotS Kenobi >> AotC Kenobi > Jango > Cipher

Huehuehue. Jango > Cipher Nine > Jadus. :3

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2015-01/29/11/enhanced/webdr09/anigif_enhanced-24966-1422550414-23.gif

Originally posted by MythLord
The Codex Entry would've been made before the battle of Ilum, though, and there isn't a big gap inbetween Malgus' "death", Jadus' death and that battle so it's likely the Codex is taking Malgus and Jadus into account as well.



I'm not talking about before the game was released, you cretin. I'm talking about the fact that the Codex Entry would have been made for the Battle of Ilum so the player could find it during the battle of Ilum. That's how time works. Marr's accolade also isn't valid for several reasons:
1. It could be interpreted in other ways, and should be since it's talking about his political power and administrative abilities
2. The Codex Entries are still in-universe, so they are hardly objective
3. It completely contradicts the Jadus accolade you're trying to throw around



Jadus' statement of being > Marr is a character statement from Valkorion, who quite frankly was just trying to goad the player, and Watcher Two who has no idea what Marr is capable of. Marr himself isn't that impressive other than a vague quote. In fact, these quotes you're giving me are all actually less valid than the Plagueis blurb.

So we're back to square one. You have no basis other than character statements and conjecture, yet you deny more valid and objective statements since it doesn't suit your arbitrary hierarchy.

Fair enough, I think what the codex means could be interpreted either way though.

The codex entry likely isn't referring to his political power, and by "abilities" I would assume it means his abilities in the Force and in combat. I don't see any other reason to believe otherwise than the purpose of lowballing TOR characters, like most of this forum does. And no, it doesn't contradict the Jadus accolade, you yourself said Marr's quote there was made for the Battle of Ilum, which means it took into account the fact that Jadus was gone. And Darth Mortis stating that Nox could give Malgus a hell of a fight, and still being inferior to Marr, keeps Marr right where I want him.

How are these less valid than a non-canon novel blurb? And I"M the one picking and choosing? There's no reason to believe the quotes I've provided aren't valid, again, aside from the purpose of lowballing TOR characters.

About Novel Blurbs being canon:

-Leeland Chee

Originally posted by Ursumeles
About Novel Blurbs being canon:

-Leeland Chee The official description for C-canon states something along the lines of that applying to things created by the author specifically. Blurbs aren't created by the author, and are therefore not included.

Originally posted by darthbane77
The official description for C-canon states something along the lines of that applying to things created by the author specifically.
Quote? Chee himself more or less made Canon, so his opinion is basically the holy gral.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Quote? Chee himself more or less made Canon, so his opinion is basically the holy gral. I can't remember where it is, Syndi shared it in a comment in my Facebook group the other day, so I asked him for it again. I'll share the quote as soon as he gets back to me with it.

Anyway, Plagueis being relative close to RotS Sidious, being the second-last of the Banite line, shifting the balance of the force, manipulating midichlorians, influencing the climate of Naboo so extreme that it was the coldest winter the inhabitant's ever seen and being significantly above Tenebrous sh!t's all-over Jadus, lmao.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Anyway, Plagueis being relative close to RotS Sidious, being the second-last of the Banite line, shifting the balance of the force, manipulating midichlorians, influencing the climate of Naboo so extreme that it was the coldest winter the inhabitant's ever seen and being significantly above Tenebrous sh!t's all-over Jadus, lmao. C-canon, or Continuity canon: The majority of Expanded Universe stories, including novels, comics, video games, and other content originating from other authors. C-canon material could be elevated to G-canon if a subject appeared in a Lucas project.

Note that it says "other content originating from other authors" meaning the content needs to come from an author to be C-Canon. Considering the blurb is not from an author, it's S-Canon which can "be ignored as desired by authors" and other authors, specifically Bioware in this case, obviously either ignored or were ignorant of the Plagueis blurb when they created Vitiate/Valkorion.

I didn't say Jadus is Plagueis' equal, I said he's between prime Vader and Jadus. Do you need a reading lesson?

Originally posted by darthbane77
The codex entry likely isn't referring to his political power, and by "abilities" I would assume it means his abilities in the Force and in combat. I don't see any other reason to believe otherwise than the purpose of lowballing TOR characters, like most of this forum does.
> most of the forum
> most of the forum is TOR wankers
> kek

Anyways, yeah it's likely political power. The entire Codex Entry explains Marr's sway over the Empire, and his role as a leader primarily. Sure it mentions he's a terrifying warrior, but other than that the entire Codex is Marr's leadership skills.

Originally posted by darthbane77
And no, it doesn't contradict the Jadus accolade, you yourself said Marr's quote there was made for the Battle of Ilum, which means it took into account the fact that Jadus was gone. And Darth Mortis stating that Nox could give Malgus a hell of a fight, and still being inferior to Marr, keeps Marr right where I want him.

How are these less valid than a non-canon novel blurb? And I"M the one picking and choosing? There's no reason to believe the quotes I've provided aren't valid, again, aside from the purpose of lowballing TOR characters.

Nove blurbs are canon unless contradicted by something directly within the universe. Nothing contradicts Plagueis being the most powerful besides the "heerr derr" feats only approach which is retarded.

Anyways, the Codex Entry was made so you can find it on Makeb, thus it was made before the player journies to Makeb. It could have very well been made before the Battle of Ilum and before Jadus' death. Additionally, Darth Mortis' opinion is irrelevant since it's just his opinion. You have the strange habit of taking character statements as if they are canon fact when they're not.

And to top it all off, Valkorion himself believes the protagonist is superior to Marr, so Marr being better than the protag opens up another big ol' can of contradicitions for you. So lets run it down:

Marr ~ Malgus >/ ~ Nox > Jadus > Marr, based on taking everything you said fully into account. There's no way around this; your comparison is just quite frankly sh!t and hinges on character statements that are, either purposefully or accidentally, inaccurate and a Codex Entry that can be interpreted in so many ways. You choose on personal whim to when and how these statements apply and that's just cherry picking.

Originally posted by darthbane77
C-canon, or Continuity canon: The majority of Expanded Universe stories, including novels, comics, video games, and other content originating from other authors. C-canon material could be elevated to G-canon if a subject appeared in a Lucas project.

Note that it says "other content originating from other authors" meaning the content needs to come from an author to be C-Canon. Considering the blurb is not from an author, it's S-Canon which can "be ignored as desired by authors" and other authors, specifically Bioware in this case, obviously either ignored or were ignorant of the Plagueis blurb when they created Vitiate/Valkorion.

I didn't say Jadus is Plagueis' equal, I said he's between prime Vader and Jadus. Do you need a reading lesson? Who said this? And. Still, the feats that I listed for Plagueis >>> Jadus.

1. Jadus > Vader is bad enough.
2. I didn't said that you said Plagueis = Jadus, but that you have him approaching Plagueis level, which is true.
Originally posted by darthbane77
Jadus. I hold Jadus as approaching Plagueis level.
Do you need reading lessons

Originally posted by MythLord
> most of the forum
> most of the forum is TOR wankers
> kek

Anyways, yeah it's likely political power. The entire Codex Entry explains Marr's sway over the Empire, and his role as a leader primarily. Sure it mentions he's a terrifying warrior, but other than that the entire Codex is Marr's leadership skills.



Nove blurbs are canon unless contradicted by something directly within the universe. Nothing contradicts Plagueis being the most powerful besides the "heerr derr" feats only approach which is retarded.

Anyways, the Codex Entry was made so you can find it on Makeb, thus it was made before the player journies to Makeb. It could have very well been made before the Battle of Ilum and before Jadus' death. Additionally, Darth Mortis' opinion is irrelevant since it's just his opinion. You have the strange habit of taking character statements as if they are canon fact when they're not.

And to top it all off, Valkorion himself believes the protagonist is superior to Marr, so Marr being better than the protag opens up another big ol' can of contradicitions for you. So lets run it down:

Marr ~ Malgus >/ ~ Nox > Jadus > Marr, based on taking everything you said fully into account. There's no way around this; your comparison is just quite frankly sh!t and hinges on character statements that are, either purposefully or accidentally, inaccurate and a Codex Entry that can be interpreted in so many ways. You choose on personal whim to when and how these statements apply and that's just cherry picking. The Marr codex can obviously be interpreted in different ways, which means no one interpretation is correct.

This quote could potentially contradict Plagueis' non-canon blurb.

"Revan travels to a very iconic Yavin IV to go to battle and release the actual Emperor, one we thought who was defeated not long ago. The player is pulled into this struggle of two of the most powerful Force users, like ever, in the history of the Old Republic, if not beyond - Revan and the Emperor."

―Michael Backus (Star Wars: The Old Republic Head Writer)

Vitiate is stated as the most powerful character in the Old Republic, alongside Revan. The quote then says they're potentially the most powerful characters even beyond the TOR era. The only Sith Lord who's accolades might actually contradict this, are Sidious'.

You discount Mortis' opinion and then use Valkorion's as evidence? You can't discount one opinion and then use another one for your argument, that shit is hypocritical.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Who said this? And. Still, the feats that I listed for Plagueis >>> Jadus.

1. Jadus > Vader is bad enough.
2. I didn't said that you said Plagueis = Jadus, but that you have him approaching Plagueis level, which is true.

Do you need reading lessons It's listed on wookiepedia as the definition for c-canon. Considering everything on wookiepedia is verified, I assume it to be true, and Syndi used it as a source, which makes it good enough for me.

Jadus>Vader has evidence, and Jadus APPROACHING Plagueis, is not Plagueis level.

Yes, I know what I said, approaching somebody's level isn't the same as being on that level.

Originally posted by darthbane77

This quote could potentially contradict Plagueis' non-canon blurb.

"Revan travels to a very iconic Yavin IV to go to battle and release the actual Emperor, one we thought who was defeated not long ago. The player is pulled into this struggle of two of the most powerful Force users, like ever, in the history of the Old Republic, if not beyond - Revan and the Emperor."

―Michael Backus (Star Wars: The Old Republic Head Writer)
So, is it the opinion of this guy?

Originally posted by Ursumeles
So, is it the opinion of this guy? Statement made by the lead writer, that makes him technically the author, and as per the definition of C-Canon I provided, this should be true.

wat?

"One of" - E.I. they could be among the top 20 and the "one of" accolade would still be valid. In no way does that contradict anything, lmao.

Originally posted by darthbane77
It's listed on wookiepedia as the definition for c-canon. Considering everything on wookiepedia is verified, I assume it to be true, and Syndi used it as a source, which makes it good enough for me.

Jadus>Vader has evidence, and Jadus APPROACHING Plagueis, is not Plagueis level.

Yes, I know what I said, approaching somebody's level isn't the same as being on that level.
1. Are you kidding me? At least I want to know who said that.
Syn can be tricked as well.

2. I am still waiting for evidence that Jadus > Vader.

3. I never said otherwise. But Jadus doesn't comes close to approaching Plagueis, unless your definition of "approaching" is getting stomped, or flat-out dominated.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
1. Are you kidding me? At least I want to know who said that.
Syn can be tricked as well.

2. I am still waiting for evidence that Jadus > Vader.

3. I never said otherwise. But Jadus doesn't comes close to approaching Plagueis, unless your definition of "approaching" is getting stomped, or flat-out dominated. Being second only to Vitiate and above every other member of the DC (some of whom I have approaching Vader level, as previously said) the ability to hold his ship together in space is something above most anything Vader has achieved.

Originally posted by darthbane77
I didn't say Jadus is Plagueis' equal, I said he's between prime Vader and Jadus. Do you need a reading lesson?

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/ec/a1/34/eca13411ececa48e1c2445040d7f5118.jpg

Originally posted by Trocity
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/ec/a1/34/eca13411ececa48e1c2445040d7f5118.jpg Between prime Vader and Plagueis,that was a typo, my bad.

Will be back on later to respond, I have shit I need to do right now.

Based on Drew's opinion Bane ~ Vader ~ Revan, lmao. And we know that Plaggy >>> Bane.
Originally posted by darthbane77
Being second only to Vitiate and above every other member of the DC (some of whom I have approaching Vader level, as previously said) the ability to hold his ship together in space is something above most anything Vader has achieved.
Based on what?
How do they approach Vader level?
Vader did:
-collapsed a Cathedral, while injured, 19BBY, as he was far weaker than his later incernations.
-dominated Starkiller/shared parity with him, before "becoming a far more formidable foe.
etc.

He didn't hold the whole ship together.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Based on Drew's opinion Bane ~ Vader ~ Revan, lmao. And we know that Plaggy >>> Bane.

Based on what?
How do they approach Vader level?
Vader did:
-collapsed a Cathedral, while injured, 19BBY, as he was far weaker than his later incernations.
-dominated Starkiller/shared parity with him, before "becoming a far more formidable foe.
etc.

He didn't hold the whole ship together. Will respond later.

Originally posted by darthbane77
The Marr codex can obviously be interpreted in different ways, which means no one interpretation is correct.

Right, so you can't play it off as fact that Marr > Nox.

Originally posted by darthbane77
This quote could potentially contradict Plagueis' non-canon blurb.

"Revan travels to a very iconic Yavin IV to go to battle and release the actual Emperor, one we thought who was defeated not long ago. The player is pulled into this struggle of two of the most powerful Force users, like ever, in the history of the Old Republic, if not beyond - Revan and the Emperor."

―Michael Backus (Star Wars: The Old Republic Head Writer)

Vitiate is stated as the most powerful character in the Old Republic, alongside Revan. The quote then says they're potentially the most powerful characters even beyond the TOR era. The only Sith Lord who's accolades might actually contradict this, are Sidious'.

He says "two of", not "the two". Regardless, author quotes aren't canon unless their statements are implemented into the story. This has been noted several times by Drew, Luceno and Stover.

Originally posted by darthbane77
You discount Mortis' opinion and then use Valkorion's as evidence? You can't discount one opinion and then use another one for your argument, that shit is hypocritical.

I wasn't doing that, you cretin, I was making a point. If you wanna take Valkorion saying that Jadus is > Marr, then you have to accept that he also said the protagonist is > Jadus so Marr can't be > Nox who is ~ Malgus, according to you. I'm noting how flawed your argument is by shoving the same example down your throat.

Who cares what Valkorion said? He was non-stop lying lmao. He just wanted a new body for himself on the Eternal Throne.

Exactly my point; so him saying Jadus > Marr or Protag > everyone else clearly isn't valid.

Lol, why the hell would Valk lie about that? It gets him nothing and it really specifically and perfectly fits in with the hype that the game had previously given Jadus. The devs were obviously reinforcing Jadus' hype with that line, its completely specific.

Backing out of the argument for a while, more important matters are pressing me right now. May or may not get back to it.

Originally posted by darthbane77
It's listed on wookiepedia as the definition for c-canon. Considering everything on wookiepedia is verified, I assume it to be true, and Syndi used it as a source, which makes it good enough for me. So retarded on so many levels.

tbh

This is 2017 for Christ's sake how are people using Wookieepedia over Leland Chee. facepalm

And just to remind everyone of what's actually the case:

http://i.imgur.com/b2ZKh5E.jpg

Case closed.

Chee and blurbs are canon.
Author statements and Wookiepedia aren't.

Bump

Karness, obviously.

This is the back cover of latest print of Darth Plagueis novel:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71hg9AvrxhL.jpg

Source: https://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Darth-Plagueis-Legends/dp/0345511298

Looks like they abandoned the earlier hype for another, which is still a hype.

The hype is about the midichlorian manipulation skill of Darth Plagueis.

That's not a retcon. But it's good to have more confirmation that Plagueis' power over life and death was unprecedented.

Originally posted by SunRazer
That's not a retcon. But it's good to have more confirmation that Plagueis' power over life and death was unprecedented.
That is a retcon.

Further proof Plagueis possesses "ultimate power". :3

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
That is a retcon.
Was the quote retconnected? No? Then it's no retcon.
Also, pre-retcon it was canonical then?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
That is a retcon.

No, it's not. Nowhere is the fact that Plagueis was the most powerful Sith Lord up to and of his time contested.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This is the back cover of latest print of Darth Plagueis novel:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71hg9AvrxhL.jpg

Source: https://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Darth-Plagueis-Legends/dp/0345511298

Looks like they abandoned the earlier hype for another, which is still a hype.

The hype is about the midichlorian manipulation skill of Darth Plagueis. No retcon lol, that's just the paperback edition. The above is from the sleeve of the hardcover. Nice try tho.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Was the quote retconnected? No? Then it's no retcon.
Also, pre-retcon it was canonical then?

Originally posted by SunRazer
No, it's not. Nowhere is the fact that Plagueis was the most powerful Sith Lord up to and of his time contested.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
No retcon lol, that's just the paperback edition. The above is from the sleeve of the hardcover. Nice try tho.

How do you think a retcon occurs? They replaced the older backcover with a new one. The latest copies will have the backcover that I have cited here.

They have opened the door for an ancient Sith or practitioner of the Dark Side to be stronger than Darth Plagueis but they stick to the argument that Darth Plagueis holds his own with midichlorian manipulation.

A retcon is never direct; it is implied through changes in the latest edition of a book. But I understand that some of you will take time to come to terms with the latest change.

Lmao Legend, just admit you were mistaken rather than continuing to further embarrass yourself. There are two versions of the Darth Plagueis novel, a paperback and a hardback, your image is from the paperback, and it is not new.

Understand that Legends has been discontinued, so it would be counterintuitive if not entirely redundant to retcon any EU material.

On the other hand no, a retcon must constitute an explicit revision. An omission isn't good enough I'm afraid.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Lmao Legend, just admit you were mistaken rather than continuing to further embarrass yourself. There are two versions of the Darth Plagueis novel, a paperback and a hardback, your image is from the paperback, and it is not new.

Understand that Legends has been discontinued, so it would be counterintuitive if not entirely redundant to retcon any EU material.
Hardcover print is older. Release date is January 10, 2012. Here is an example: https://www.amazon.com/Darth-Plagueis-Star-James-Luceno/dp/034551128X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1487610477&sr=1-1&keywords=darth+plagueis+hardcover

The print I have cited is latest with updated backcover. Release date is October 30, 2012.

Now, why would the publisher change the backcover of a novel in its newer print? Doesn't makes sense unless a retcon or amendment in backcover content was necessary.

Try harder.

Cool, so you concede that the hardcover and the paperback were in print at the same time, both before the Legends/Canon split. Debunking the idea that this is a retcon. Thanks.

And FYI, mass market paperbacks and also published some time after the hardcover release, this is standard industry practice.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Cool, so you concede that the hardcover and the paperback were in print at the same time, both before the Legends/Canon split. Debunking the idea that this is a retcon. Thanks.

And FYI, mass market paperbacks and also published some time after the hardcover release, this is standard industry practice.
You need to get your eyes examined. The retcon occurred (before) the Legends/Canon split. Paperback print is (newer) and its backcover is different from that of the older hardcover print. I have mentioned the release dates of both for all to see; hardcover print came out in January and paperback print came out in October. The latter print represents the updated view of the publisher in regards to hype of the character in question.

Oh just log-out already, I don't have time to deal with this level of stupidity.

I'll explain one more time. There exist two versions of the Darth Plagueis novel, the hardcover and the paperback, the paperback did not replace the hardback, given they were in print at the same time, it's just a different version. No more or less valid than its precursor which again, remained in print. Is this really was a retcon, the hardcover would have at the very least been replaced, with a new hardcover version. The fact the (mass market) paperback was published after the hardcover, only reflecting standard industry practices.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Oh just log-out already.

How rude.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Oh just log-out already, I don't have time to deal with this level of stupidity.

I'll explain one more time. There exist two versions of the Darth Plagueis novel, the hardcover and the paperback, the paperback did not replace the hardback, given they were in print at the same time, it's just a different version. No more or less valid than its precursor which again, remained in print. Is this really was a retcon, the hardcover would have at the very least been replaced, with a new hardcover version. The fact the (mass market) paperback was published after the hardcover, only reflecting standard industry practices.
Then why 8 month gap in release of the paperback edition and why the paperback edition is also mentioned as reprint edition?

Omg.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Then why 8 month gap in release of the paperback edition and why the paperback edition is also mentioned as reprint edition? Wow, reading your posts is like watching a neadernthal, Christ. I already said why, because its a mass market paperback i.e. a cheap reprint of the original edition, months after the hardcover release. Stop wasting my time and look it up.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Wow, reading your posts is like watching a neadernthal, Christ. I already said why, because its a mass market paperback i.e. a cheap reprint of the original edition, months after the hardcover release. Stop wasting my time and look it up.
Why would the publisher change the backcover of the same novel in a reprint, you idiot? Provide solid explanation or shutup.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Wow, reading your posts is like watching a neadernthal, Christ. I already said why, because its a mass market paperback i.e. a cheap reprint of the original edition, months after the hardcover release. Stop wasting my time and look it up.

👍

Paperback publisher summaries are pretty much always shorter and different from hardcover publisher summaries - for obvious reasons: they have less space for them.

"With the latest change"...

I've had the paperback novel for years, lmfao.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Why would the publisher change the backcover of the same novel in a reprint, you idiot? Provide solid explanation or shutup. Oh you primitive little clown, have you even ever read a book? Like Temp said, different book formats have different blurbs to suit their design and dimensions. So any more brain dead queries, or are you quite done?

I don't know what's more depressing, that you might actually be so monumentally stupid as to believe what you're saying, or so maddeningly desperate to cling to such a craptastic attempt to disprove this statement. facepalm

A silver-lining however, by arguing this quote has been retconned, you've conceded it was canon in the first place.

Moving forward, until you have some proof that the hardcover edition was taken out of print to reflect this "retcon", you're just flapping your gums with no reasonable basis. I certainly won't be wasting any more explaining common sense to a monkey.

^^^

A college dropout like you doesn't have the intellectual capability to understand my point. Your desperation is duly noted.

By the way, back cover information represents a secondary source of information about the subject (i.e. from the publisher). And logo of Lucasbooks on the back cover of a Star Wars book is just a seal of approval for printing of that material from the Lucasbooks which it would provide for any material irrespective of accuracy in its content. Another failed attempt to project work of another publisher as that of Lucasfilm canon. The comedy never gets old here.

Your rage is palpable LeG. I wonder how many bright young things will see the astute wisdom of your argument.

But yeah I agree, blurbs being canon, are susceptible to retcons. None present here tho.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
^^^

A college dropout like you doesn't have the intellectual capability to understand my point.
31

Lmao.

Karness has better feats, I guess.