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The fight takes in a neutral town with no bfr. No exotic tech for Batman.

Bats.

Originally posted by golem370
The fight takes in a neutral town with no bfr. No exotic tech for Batman.

In my opinion, a pre-cog type like Midnighter (or lesser variants of the same like Cassandra Cain and the new Richard Dragon; or more powerful variants like SpiderMan) can be defeated in one of several ways.

The first is by someone who is simply faster. E.g. an Apollo fighting against a Midnghter, or a non-jobbing Quick Silver against Spider-Man. They will see/calculate/sense what's about to happen, but will not be able to do much about it (and yes, I know they've dodged bullets and lasers, but that's a static high speed movement as opposed to a dynamic high speed movement). If, say, the Flash wants to shave Midnighter's hair, there's nothing outside PIS that would prevent that, even though in comics you will see Deathstroke tag Wally West.

The second is someone who can effect the environment at a wide level. Maybe high level weather manip, or earth manip, or someone like Magneto, etc. There is little a pre cog can do in such a situation, unless the precog has additional powers (e.g. speed). Knowing what the next chess move is a big strength, but not against someone who can simply take the whole board and turn it upside down.

The third is someone who can do proper preparation. A Victor Doom, or a Bruce Wayne, or a Black Panther (although writers often forget T'Challa is one of the top prep minds around, which is unfortunate). Such characters can ensure that the pre cog, no matter what option they calculate or sense, is all futile. They think several moves ahead, and in many ways a good prep guy given prep is an amalgamation of two things - (1) a pre cog (since high level prep is basically creating the future you want to happen), and (2) effecting the environment at a wide level (since they'd make the environment lethal to the precog no matter what they do).

So, given prep, even a lower prepper like Frank Castle can kill Midnighter, let alone a higher prepper like Batman.

Midnighter is a teleporter and has a mind quick like a computer I thought that would counter the prep.

See his fight with the Suicide Squad, where Harley Quinn tooled him with prep.

Originally posted by golem370
Midnighter is a teleporter and has a mind quick like a computer I thought that would counter the prep.

That would normally be a considerable advantage, but consider as well that you have given one of the most accomplished human preppers THREE days to prepare using basic information. This is why I was saying even a lower-level prepper like Castle could pull it off, let alone a higher level prepper like Wayne.

Three days is an eternity to the likes of Batman, Black Panther, Doom etc ...especially when they also have basic information on their adversary.

To be honest, if I knew I was facing Batman and he had had three days of prep, I would not even use the Door. It would probably redirect me to the House of Mysteries or something similarly 'wrong.'

Originally posted by golem370
Midnighter is a teleporter and has a mind quick like a computer I thought that would counter the prep.
Or to put it another way, high level precognition is like being the best race car driver in the world with an ability to see the immediate future. Thus, in a race, you're unstoppable.

High level prep is like lacing the entire racing track with explosives, and going even further and putting explosives across the entire stadium.

Once they start to detonate, all your precog will do is tell you the very many different ways in which you can die. I guess the consolation prize is that you will be able to decide how you go out.

I've made that point regards Mids before. His battle computer isnt an auto win.

Batman will win convincingly here with this much prep time.

It's a good point, because again, Harley with prep detonated bombs and booby trapped his doors when he attempted to use them.

If Batman find some way to neutralize Midnighter's computer he will drastically increase his chances.

Someone better post that scan of Midnighter without his battle pc killing Prometheus....

^^^He shouldnt necessarily have to neutralize the BC, as your Harley Quinn example shows.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
If Batman find some way to neutralize Midnighter's computer he will drastically increase his chances.

The battle computing is a very effective tactical tool, but as effective as it may be it is still a tactical tool. It analyzes the situation in front of it, and either (a) selects the most optimal/effective/brutal solution out of a long list of variables, or (b) works backwards to know how to act now so as to get the result it wants. Again, a very effective tactical tool.

Three days of prep by someone at Batman's level is a very effective strategic tool. Strategic in that it can not only create the battlefield conditions it wants ahead of time, but it can also ensure that all possible parameters are covered.

High level strategy will always beat high level tactics. In comics, or in the real world.

Tactics is like having a world class chess grandmaster, who can outthink you in the game and has an arsenal of moves that can beat you in a myriad ways.

Strategy is you having the game played inside a room that can be flooded, and the chess grandmaster only finding out when water starts rushing through vents into the watertight room while you look at him inside your deep sea dive suit.

^^^that was F'ing nice.

Batman takes care of business

If Batman isn't allowed any exotic tech, id still take Midnighter. As he has shown on many occasions, he doesn't need his battle computer to win and he has better stats than Batman, with healing. Batman dies. Surprised Batman/Midnighter crossover hasn't happened yet.

If it happened the way you describe, we can all be thankful for that.

Yup yup.

I remember Midnighter battle computer was disable in a h2h fight with weather man or some body in Authority comics and got beat the phuck down.

Ill take Batman

Originally posted by the Darkone
I remember Midnighter battle computer was disable in a h2h fight with weather man or some body in Authority comics and got beat the phuck down.

Ill take Batman

This is DCnU Midnighter.

Who got taken out by Harley and the Suicide Squad with prep.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Who got taken out by Harley and the Suicide Squad with prep.

Prometheus had prep, too, yet Midnighter beat his ass without a battle computer.

What was Prometheus' prep?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What was Prometheus' prep?

Gaining his trust, tricking him, adding a crap load of added senses, martial arts from the best MA in the world, took away his battle computer, etc... He fooled Midnighter, had the drop on him, yet still lost.

Prometheus does not have the resources Batman has, though.

Batman has the benefit of Amanda Waller, who knows where and how to disable his doors (and who owes Batman a favour).

He also has his bestest buddy in the world, Dick Grayson, who has Hypnos tech - which has beaten Mids before.

These things are literally two phone calls away, let alone three days' of prep.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Prometheus does not have the resources Batman has, though.

Batman has the benefit of Amanda Waller, who knows where and how to disable his doors (and who owes Batman a favour).

He also has his bestest buddy in the world, Dick Grayson, who has Hypnos tech - which has beaten Mids before.

These things are literally two phone calls away, let alone three days' of prep.

The hypnosis tech didn't beat him, though. Just distracted him enough to not be killed by Midnighter.

If Batman has one-sided prep, then he can win, but if both get prep, it will be a lot more interesting.

So in this thread, which has one sided prep, Batman wins

Being distracted against Grayson is nowhere near as dangerous as being distracted against Batman who's had 3 days worth of one sided prep.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So in this thread, which has one sided prep, Batman wins

Being distracted against Grayson is nowhere near as dangerous as being distracted against Batman who's had 3 days worth of one sided prep.

What type of tech is Batman going to use, if he's not able to use exotic tech? Midnighter isn't completely useless.

Harley used explosives, which isn't exotic.

I'm not saying he busts out the Justice Buster or Hellbat suit, lol.

^^^Oh thank God you answered that so i didnt have to.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Harley used explosives, which isn't exotic.

I'm not saying he busts out the Justice Buster or Hellbat suit, lol.

They're Amanda explosives. Of course there is something to them.

So...Harley beat Midnighter? The phuck???

Not Harley, per se.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-80c14cUybBU/VrIkrgVTU0I/AAAAAAAAy5c/L8gDOPhV-DM/s1600/36_15.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Ku52uK6iOrs/VrIkr6EAikI/AAAAAAAAy5g/FQGBbgIm5-0/s1600/36_16.jpg

She booby trapped the doors with normal explosives, stopping Midnighter from using them (which Bats can do).

Later on, whilst Mids' HF was restrained by Parasite, she took him out:
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-i-wlPqb1dao/Vtb7PYwt_WI/AAAAAAABNAI/qdxoz1xDx08/s1600/18_16.jpg

Dick Grayson had Hypnos tech, and Mids was unable to predict his moves (which Bats can also use).

So that's doors, and his computer, taken out. And that's just the start. Bats has been given three days to prep here. All manner of shenanigans can be pulled - maybe the doors would be hijacked, or instead of explosives he uses sonar weapons, etc.

Anyone else disappointed we haven't gotten our Batman/Midnighter fight that was hinted at in Stormwatch?

http://i1149.photobucket.com/albums/o589/lupinw45/BVM_zps4u4bw6pw.jpg

No.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Not Harley, per se.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-80c14cUybBU/VrIkrgVTU0I/AAAAAAAAy5c/L8gDOPhV-DM/s1600/36_15.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Ku52uK6iOrs/VrIkr6EAikI/AAAAAAAAy5g/FQGBbgIm5-0/s1600/36_16.jpg

She booby trapped the doors with normal explosives, stopping Midnighter from using them (which Bats can do).

Later on, whilst Mids' HF was restrained by Parasite, she took him out:
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-i-wlPqb1dao/Vtb7PYwt_WI/AAAAAAABNAI/qdxoz1xDx08/s1600/18_16.jpg

Dick Grayson had Hypnos tech, and Mids was unable to predict his moves (which Bats can also use).

So that's doors, and his computer, taken out. And that's just the start. Bats has been given three days to prep here. All manner of shenanigans can be pulled - maybe the doors would be hijacked, or instead of explosives he uses sonar weapons, etc.

Pretty much.

You need only look at Prometheus and see what kind of shite he could pull.

The way he stacks the deck kind of justifies his extreme paranoia. Cheaters always assume someone's cheating them.

I don't see Batman going to Amanda, though. Especially since he doesn't approve of most of her actions.

Originally posted by cdtm
Pretty much.

You need only look at Prometheus and see what kind of shite he could pull.

The way he stacks the deck kind of justifies his extreme paranoia. Cheaters always assume someone's cheating them.

Midnighter killed Prometheus, though.

And he punched a cat.

Originally posted by Zack M
I don't see Batman going to Amanda, though. Especially since he doesn't approve of most of her actions.

He sees her as necessary to get the job done.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-BnHE-CpEcy8/WIqknucQ_KI/AAAAAAABqeY/tPOrTLJJxP8ngMmy3JPvhAQTK1ufu2KjgCLcB/s1600/33_021.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He sees her as necessary to get the job done.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-BnHE-CpEcy8/WIqknucQ_KI/AAAAAAABqeY/tPOrTLJJxP8ngMmy3JPvhAQTK1ufu2KjgCLcB/s1600/33_021.jpg

That doesn't mean he'd go to her for resources. Let's see how many times Batman relies on Amanda in the future.

Well, at least you're honest when you choose to ignore scans and insist your imaginary narratives are facts.
Very refreshing.
This was a fun thread for that, if nothing else.

Originally posted by Zack M
This is DCnU Midnighter.


It didnt state in the OP, so chill the phuck out


And I still take Batman

Can't he find a way to hack Midnighter's battle computer ?

Course he can. Dick, his butt buddy, has Hypnos tech, which enabled Dick to beat Mids.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Course he can. Dick, his butt buddy, has Hypnos tech, which enabled Dick to beat Mids.

Ah yes. I remember an hypnotic trick in the Grayson series