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Who wins and why?

Vader, Exar has little that would place him on his level.

Kun definitely takes Legends Vader. Not sure yet about Canon.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Kun definitely takes Legends Vader.
Based on what?

Kun isn't taking Legends Vader.

Legends Vader, after getting his skills down pat for two decades, was on par with Kenobi after having his skills decrease for two decades.

Fast-forward three years into the future, and Vader's having a legitimate challenge against ESB Luke, so I'm not seeing a significant increase.

Kun, no question. Revan beats Vader too, BTW.

Originally posted by Azronger
Kun isn't taking Legends Vader.

Either Vader kills him

Beating Vodo and stalemating Ulic aren't out of Vader's abilities

Originally posted by Azronger
Kun isn't taking Legends Vader.
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Reasons?

Originally posted by Azronger
Kun isn't taking Legends Vader.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Legends Vader, after getting his skills down pat for two decades, was on par with Kenobi after having his skills decrease for two decades.

Fast-forward three years into the future, and Vader's having a legitimate challenge against ESB Luke, so I'm not seeing a significant increase.

Kun, no question. Revan beats Vader too, BTW.

We also know that ESB Vader advanced tremendously in terms of lightsaber combat compared to ANH as per the TESB novelization while in RotJ he was described as being "in his prime". That Luke provided somewhat a challenge for him could as easily be attributed to his enormous potential and raw power while there are also sources that indicated he was playing around with him.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
advanced tremendously.
kek

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Revan beats Vader too, BTW. No one's disputing that.

Originally posted by Azronger
Kun isn't taking Legends Vader.

Originally posted by carthage
Either Vader kills him

Beating Vodo and stalemating Ulic aren't out of Vader's abilities
He was stalemated by vodo priot to kun using an unothrodox form

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Kun definitely takes Legends Vader. Not sure yet about Canon.
R u saying canon vader is stronger than legends vader

Kun rapes this fool

Kun >> Ulic >> DE Luke > ROTJ Luke ~ ROTJ Vader.

lol

All hail Ulic wank.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Kun >> Ulic >> DE Luke > ROTJ Luke ~ ROTJ Vader.
Vader > Maul > Venamis >>> Bane > Valkorion > Vitiate >> Exar Kun

Cancer.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Kun >> Ulic >> DE Luke > ROTJ Luke ~ ROTJ Vader.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Cancer.

Not only cancer but top tier mental retardation

Tom Veitch who wrote both Dark Empire and Tales of the Jedi confirmed Ulic's power is > DE Luke's and nothing contradicts him.

Not to mention Ulic is far, far more powerful than a sorcerer who can one-shot Nomi Sunrider with TP, corrupt Onderon as a side effect of his spells, dominate Arca Jeth, sap the Force energy of seven prodigal Jedi Knights including the Dromas and Sunrider, and dominate millions of Iziz citizens simultaneously.

This was but a fraction of the powers of Freedon Nadd's spirit, who Exar Kun replaced in power upon Nadd's destruction, before Exar Kun got more powerful and then was stalemated by Ulic in augmentative prowess. Then Ulic gained 'tremendous dark side powers' over the following years when he reemerged as a Sith Magus whose powers had been 'transformed'.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Tom Veitch who wrote both Dark Empire and Tales of the Jedi confirmed Ulic's power is > DE Luke's and nothing contradicts him.

True, but just because nothing contradicts him, doesn't mean his emails are canon. Unless they're integrated into the continuity, they have no value.



Yeah, Ulic is pretty strong. Not sure what that has to do with lightsaber dueling, though, which is what this thread is about.



Cool. Still nothing to do with lightsabers.

Force prowess = Augmentation.

Not always, though.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Force prowess = Augmentation.

That's not always true, although I could see it being the case with martially oriented combatants like Kun and Qel-Droma.

Originally posted by AncientPower
ROTJ Luke ~ ROTJ Vader.

Yet, Luke admitted Vader would have demolished him had he used the Force above Endor, and his feats and Luke's feats are far and away inferior to Vader across the board.

Before you mention Black Hole's statement as if it's fact - in DE, Sidious mused that Luke had yet to surpass Vader, thus throwing a wrench in that line of reasoning.

They were only equals as martial combatants, not in the Force.

As for the thread, what has Kun done to actually put him above Vader?

Besting Voda Siosk Baas? So what? Pre-prime Vader was besting/stalemating army busting Starkiller that was stated to be "nigh-unstoppable" in combat and is factually a high level master in multiple lightsaber forms.

Add that to the fact that 'Killers Force showings is utterly ridiculous and I don't see how Voda compares.

The only thing that connects Vodo to the PT era is being a Weapons' Master. Given that someone like Anoon Bondara also happens to be one, I'm not seeing how Kun beating someone on that level puts him on Vader's tier, especially when his victory is full of circumstances.

That and just because Vodo is a Weapons Master, doesn't really mean he's in a tier all his own.

I mean a Weapons Master is unique yes, but they merely just master something other than a lightsaber. It's not like Vodo is doing anything different or using any special form or ability, other than he's wielding a quarterstaff imbued with The Force which is actually less durable than a lightsaber would be since the staff can break with sufficient strength as Kun showed.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
That and just because Vodo is a Weapons Master, doesn't really mean he's in a tier all his own.

I mean a Weapons Master is unique yes, but they merely just master something other than a lightsaber. It's not like Vodo is doing anything different or using any special form or ability, other than he's wielding a quarterstaff imbued with The Force which is actually less durable than a lightsaber would be since the staff can break with sufficient strength as Kun showed.
No you're thinking of an exotic weapon specialist. A Jedi Weapons Master is a completely different and much more prestigious thing.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
No you're thinking of an exotic weapon specialist. A Jedi Weapons Master is a completely different and much more prestigious thing.

Essentially the same thing. They become specialists and then masters.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Essentially the same thing. They become specialists and then masters.
No they are completely different things. To become an exotic weapons specialist you just have to master an exotic weapon.

Being a Jedi Weapons Master is a rare prestigious position only a handful in the Jedi's history have attained and each Weapons Master is by definition one of the greatest duelists in the Order's history.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
No they are completely different things. To become an exotic weapons specialist you just have to master an exotic weapon.

Being a Jedi Weapons Master is a rare prestigious position only a handful in the Jedi's history have attained and each Weapons Master is by definition one of the greatest duelists in the Order's history.

From what I'm reading, they are the same thing, I'm not seeing anything that really separates the two. Yes the Weapons Master are a select bunch, but I'm talking about as what they trained in and so on. It's essentially the same thing, both of them use different weapons other than the normal.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
From what I'm reading, they are the same thing, I'm not seeing anything that really separates the two.
What exactly are you reading?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
What exactly are you reading?

Jedi Path/Gamer 9.

They both pretty much outline the same things.

Although I double checked with the TCE and yeah, the rank was prestigious but that's not what I'm going on about.

What I'm saying is that they selected a weapon other than a lightsaber and went on to master said weapon.

Which Vodo did do with the Quarterstaff did he not?

Regardless though, I'm not really sure why he can't be beaten.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Jedi Path/Gamer 9.

They both pretty much outline the same things.

Although I double checked with the TCE and yeah, the rank was prestigious but that's not what I'm going on about.

What I'm saying is that they selected a weapon other than a lightsaber and went on to master said weapon.

Which Vodo did do with the Quarterstaff did he not?

Regardless though, I'm not really sure why he can't be beaten.
The Jedi Path doesn't mention shit about Jedi Weapons Masters though. It talks exclusively about Exotic Weapon Specialists and says they enter a teaching role after they become Jedi Masters.

Vodo may qualify as both a Jedi Weapons Master and an Exotic Weapons Specialist, but the two aren't the same thing.

I'm not arguing whether or not he can be beaten. I'm arguing against you devaluing the rank of Weapons Master by saying any Jedi who masters an exotic weapon can get that rank.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
The Jedi Path doesn't mention shit about Jedi Weapons Masters though. It talks exclusively about Exotic Weapon Specialists and says they enter a teaching role after they become Jedi Masters.

Vodo may qualify as both a Jedi Weapons Master and an Exotic Weapons Specialist, but the two aren't the same thing.

I'm not arguing whether or not he can be beaten. I'm arguing against you devaluing the rank of Weapons Master by saying any Jedi who masters an exotic weapon can get that rank.

I didn't say that anyone could get the rank, I was saying that they were essentially the same thing as far as training went.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
As for the thread, what has Kun done to actually put him above Vader?

Besting Voda Siosk Baas? So what?

If you think about it: Exar only beat his master through sheer strength by breaking his staff, not actual skill. He can't break Vader's lightsaber. :3

Vader wins.

Voda didn't have a chance regardless, lmao - broken stick or not.

Vodo only lost because he didn't want to hurt Kun, except at the very end when all of his stamina had been depleted. Exar has never beaten a fresh, all-out Vodo.

Originally posted by MythLord
Exar only beat his master through sheer strength by breaking his staff, not actual skill. He can't break Vader's lightsaber. :3

Vader wins.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Voda didn't have a chance regardless, lmao - broken stick or not.
Vodo only lost due to kun's unorthodox style, otherwise they were equals

1. Literally has nothing to do with what I said.

2. He's battling Vader here, not GG lmao. I already made a case losing to Darth on the last page.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
1. Literally has nothing to do with what I said.

2. He's battling Vader here, not GG lmao. I already made a case losing to Darth on the last page.
I confused this one with the Kun vs gg thread

oh, when noticed your edit it was 2 late. xD

Originally posted by Azronger
Vodo only lost because he didn't want to hurt Kun, except at the very end when all of his stamina had been depleted. Exar has never beaten a fresh, all-out Vodo.

He was stated to have never stood a chance in the fight.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Vodo only lost due to kun's unorthodox style, otherwise they were equals

Kun uses his saberstaff as a quarter staff, Vodo's weapon of choice, how the hell is Vodo unfamiliar with the weapon he mastered?

Educate yourselves.

Exar's augmentation should be a massive leap above Vader.

People ask what's he done before, but what he did was dominate the era as an unparalleled swordsman. Ulic, who stomped the likes of Null in a far, far less powerful state was only his equal prior to the majority of Exar's massive increases of power and the evolution of his entire lightsaber technique adapted from ancient Sith lightsaber techniques he learned through the Dark Holocron.

Kun takes this 10/10.

Null killing featless fodder soldiers >>>> anything done by Ahsoka, Ben Kenobi, or Starkiller.

Get with it guys Exar's force augmentation is too much

Warb Null's armor imbues him with Freedon Nadd's combative knowledge, Null was too much for the other Jedi in their original fight.

You're a shit debater.

Originally posted by AncientPower
He was stated to have never stood a chance in the fight.



Kun uses his saberstaff as a quarter staff, Vodo's weapon of choice, how the hell is Vodo unfamiliar with the weapon he mastered?

Educate yourselves.

Exar's augmentation should be a massive leap above Vader.

People ask what's he done before, but what he did was dominate the era as an unparalleled swordsman. Ulic, who stomped the likes of Null in a far, far less powerful state was only his equal prior to the majority of Exar's massive increases of power and the evolution of his entire lightsaber technique adapted from ancient Sith lightsaber techniques he learned through the Dark Holocron.

Kun takes this 10/10.

Vodo's weapon isn't remotely the same as kun's. Kun prior to "making things interesting" was being stalemated by vodo even as of his prime. Aside from weaponry there's nothung separating Kun from vodo.

Feats for Vader that match beating magic armor that kills soldiers?

Originally posted by carthage
Feats for Vader that match beating magic armor that kills soldiers?
Well there was that time he knocked down by an old dude with a stick...
Oh wait, no that was kun

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Vodo's weapon isn't remotely the same as kun's. Kun prior to "making things interesting" was being stalemated by vodo even as of his prime. Aside from weaponry there's nothung separating Kun from vodo.

LMFAO, read his respect thread and stop humiliating yourself.

Hey Carthage, I love how I triggered you so badly you made like ten spite threads as a retort.

Originally posted by AncientPower
He was stated to have never stood a chance in the fight.

Yes, after Kun drew his saberstaff. Vodo had already depleted his stamina reserves at that point.

Kun beat Vodo numerous times in their sparring matches. I don't think it's a stretch to say that a prime Kun would be able to defeat Vodo in a genuine contest of dueling ability.

Still, beating Vodo in of itself doesn't place him above Vader.

And Vodo bested him several times in sparring matches, as well. Not that spars actually indicate anything, but when both Exar and Baas were genuinely serious Baas stomped Kun until the latter got enraged.

Prime Exar should outduel Vodo, he'd just be hard-pressed to do so... as oppose to Vader who should pull it off no problem.

Originally posted by Azronger
Yes, after Kun drew his saberstaff. Vodo had already depleted his stamina reserves at that point.

Stop inventing shit, Vodo is stated to have never stood a chance. Period.

Vader in a close one

Why is Kun beating Vodo relevant in relation to his actual maximum prowess when this happened before his prime?

Because this is sabers only?

Yes, but people are discussing how Kun beating Vodo isn't that good, even though this was before he was even on his prime. That's like saying Vader lost to Kenobi, when the Vader that lost to Kenobi was pre-suit iteration and thus irrelevant in the discussion.

Yeah but the difference being is, that was Kun's last saber fight before becoming a spirit, he didn't use a lightsaber in spirit form. Meanwhile Vader still had a body and continued to use lightsaber combat after his fight with Obi-Wan.

So the only way we can gauge Kun's saber abilities is his fight with Vodo.

Because Kun has really no major other saber feats after that? Other than getting put on his ass by Ood Bnar, whom Vader would blitz.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Yeah but the difference being is, that was Kun's last saber fight before becoming a spirit, he didn't use a lightsaber in spirit form. Meanwhile Vader still had a body and continued to use lightsaber combat after his fight with Obi-Wan.

So the only way we can gauge Kun's saber abilities is his fight with Vodo.

Yes, but Vader's form and combative tactics changed drastically after his fight with Kenobi, so they can't really be compared effectively, just like Kun can't be compared with a less skilled version of himself when talking about his prime. We can say that Kun managed to beat Vodo pre-prime and take that into account.

EDIT - It doesn't matter that he doesn't have other feats, you're treating this fight like it was Kun at full-strength and maximum potential reached.